Coolest college course ever

[ghostexorcist]

I just happened upon the syllabus for a course on east Asian martial arts history at Cornell University. Why don't they have neat stuff like this at my college?

http://www.arts.cornell.edu/history/HIST%202960%20FA12%20-%20Hinrichs.pdf

[GeneChing]

We covered it in Graduate Kung Fu: Stanford University Offers Division Course in Chinese Martial Arts in our 2004 July/August (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=500). I was assisting Professor Meir Shahar (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49464) who was visiting faculty for a year there.

[ghostexorcist]

I've corresponded with Prof. Shahar many times over the years. It would be awesome to take such a class with him. I think similar classes would be very popular in colleges around the country.

[IronFist]

Holy cow that sounds like a cool class :cool:

[Scott R. Brown]

I've corresponded with Prof. Shahar many times over the years. It would be awesome to take such a class with him. I think similar classes would be very popular in colleges around the country.

Or you could just read his book. ;)

[ghostexorcist]

Or you could just read his book. ;)

I have; many times in fact. But that doesn't mean that he couldn't share some of his most current research in a class.

[TaichiMantis]

Heh, I'm in Ithaca NY right now...home of Cornell

[Syn7]

Dunno bout that class, but it's an awesome school overall.

[ghostexorcist]

I just found out that my college is offering a similar class. The school of comparative religion is hosting a class on Japanese martial arts history in the spring.

[David Jamieson]

Or you could just read his book. ;)

Seeing as the book is at least 1/4 citations. I think the course would offer access to a lot more than what is in that book by Dr. Shahar.

It is a good book though. Very enlightening and useful to anyone interested in Shaolin monastery and it's 3 treasures particularly the martial arts.

[pazman]

Noticed a very important concept:

"invented tradition"

Finally, an academic martial arts class taught correctly.:)

[GeneChing]

When you are a visiting scholar, the University that you are visiting often requires that you teach a graduate level class. It was true Shaolin yuanfen that brought Dr. Shahar to Stanford and I was delighted to get to know him and his research on a face-to-face basis, but he was only visiting for that one year. The class basically went behind-the-scenes on his research, so while his book was the spine of that class, it was more about the peripheral work he did to develop that book. And in all honestly, I'm still milking the notes I took in that class.

What was most significant about that class was that it was graduate level and at Stanford. That being said, I'm hearing of more collegiate course on martial arts lately, which is very encouraging. I hope you take that course, ghostexorcist. Let us know how it goes.

[ghostexorcist]

[...] I hope you take that course, ghostexorcist. Let us know how it goes.

I certainly plan on taking it. There are only 20 slots open, and thankfully I'm a senior, so I get to register earlier than underclassmen. I've spoken with the professor and the class includes western boxing and Chinese warefare on top of the Japanese stuff. I sent him a PDF of Shahar's book. He was really glad to receive it. I'm hoping he will try to incorporate some of the material. He may also include arts associated with Islam. I helped him locate a PDF of the book Shadows of the Prophet: Martial Arts and Sufi Mysticism (2009), which deals with an Islamic Sufi sect that practices Silat in Malaysia.

[lkfmdc]

If more people received real academic instruction in Chinese and Chinese martial arts history, less would believe the nonsense being peddled by the charlatans

[bawang]

If more people received real academic instruction in Chinese and Chinese martial arts history, less would believe the nonsense being peddled by the charlatans

you should do it

u have the degree

[MightyB]

IDK - life drawing when you have the right models can be a very cool class. :D To me that beats stodgy old manuscript and theoretical contemplation of ancient warring methods any day.

[Spiked]

I just happened upon the syllabus for a course on east Asian martial arts history at Cornell University. Why don't they have neat stuff like this at my college?

http://www.arts.cornell.edu/history/HIST%202960%20FA12%20-%20Hinrichs.pdf

The problem with the premise of this class is that the old methods of training were either not written down or destroyed by the Communists. Nobody knows how the ancient warriors trained so the course would be all speculation.

[David Jamieson]

The problem with the premise of this class is that the old methods of training were either not written down or destroyed by the Communists. Nobody knows how the ancient warriors trained so the course would be all speculation.

Not true. There are in fact several extant manuals moving forward from early 16th century up and into the Qing Period.

The old methods were written down, illustrated etc and the CR didn't destroy everything. it damaged a lot, but, it didn't rub out history. There are sections of the forbidden city that have not been opened for study yet for instance that contain reams of knowledge from the past. Untouched for 100 years!

I think that many of us here in the west who have studied the southern kung fu styles have had our points of view somewhat tainted by the animosity that nationalists and communists have and had for each other. I have heard the story and even parroted it myself in regards to the CR and what it destroyed etc, It is only in the last decade or so that I've realized that this is not actually how things were and that what we were told came form a long line of whispers and political rivalry.

[lkfmdc]

Not true. There are in fact several extant manuals moving forward from early 16th century up and into the Qing Period.



I was going to tell him this, but, well, you know :D

Qi Jiguang's 紀效新書 and 練兵實紀 can still be read intact

[Spiked]

Not true. There are in fact several extant manuals moving forward from early 16th century up and into the Qing Period.

The old methods were written down, illustrated etc and the CR didn't destroy everything. it damaged a lot, but, it didn't rub out history. There are sections of the forbidden city that have not been opened for study yet for instance that contain reams of knowledge from the past. Untouched for 100 years!

I think that many of us here in the west who have studied the southern kung fu styles have had our points of view somewhat tainted by the animosity that nationalists and communists have and had for each other. I have heard the story and even parroted it myself in regards to the CR and what it destroyed etc, It is only in the last decade or so that I've realized that this is not actually how things were and that what we were told came form a long line of whispers and political rivalry.

Hmmm, this could be interesting. Do you have or know where I can get translated versions? What were their sparring practices like? Did they spend an enormous amount of time training forms and meditating on their possible techniques? Thanks, David.

[lkfmdc]

Thanks, David.

you're welcome :D

[pazman]

The problem with the premise of this class is that the old methods of training were either not written down or destroyed by the Communists. Nobody knows how the ancient warriors trained so the course would be all speculation.

There are many, many manuals and historical documents that explicitly say how military people trained in past dynasties.

Of course, for lazy people, learning Chinese or even doing a search in Google or Baidu is too much to ask for.:rolleyes:

[Spiked]

you're welcome :D

Thank you, David Ross, for giving admitting defeat like a man. Even though you did not actually admit it the fact you are following all my posts shows how butt hurt you are.

Bawang, come help him. The great and powerful David Ross needs you but pay no attention to the hobbit behind the curtain. lol

[lkfmdc]

There are many, many manuals and historical documents that explicitly say how military people trained in past dynasties.

Of course, for lazy people, learning Chinese or even doing a search in Google or Baidu is too much to ask for.:rolleyes:

he has already said that he relies upon his memory and yet proven he never seems to remember things correctly :D

[lkfmdc]

http://lpaustin.com/wp-content/uploads/crying-baby-300x300.jpg



take your beating like a man... you pathetic troll....

you know the forum isn't going to be distracted so easily, they have seen through you already

[Spiked]

There are many, many manuals and historical documents that explicitly say how military people trained in past dynasties.

Of course, for lazy people, learning Chinese or even doing a search in Google or Baidu is too much to ask for.:rolleyes:

It is definitely too much to ask for especially since I am busy producing fighters that are destroying the competition.

Learning Chinese? You are serious? People in this country need to learn English first. Forget Chinese.

[lkfmdc]

"spiked" has now been exposed

http://lpaustin.com/wp-content/uploads/crying-baby-300x300.jpg

see him squirm

[Spiked]

take your beating like a man... you pathetic troll....

you know the forum isn't going to be distracted so easily, they have seen through you already

The forum does not care as it is not a hive mind controlled by you. You will undoubtedly follow me around until someone notices because I hurt your wittle feelings. Why do you need so much attention? Someone hug him please.

[David Jamieson]

Hmmm, this could be interesting. Do you have or know where I can get translated versions? What were their sparring practices like? Did they spend an enormous amount of time training forms and meditating on their possible techniques? Thanks, David.

Translated versions are not easy to obtain.
some you will find in translated and reinterpreted versions.
But like most old books, they are not updated, translated etc.

To that end, people out there that actually do research are helpful. Yang Jwing Ming as translated many old manuals and modernized the presentation of the material. Dr.Meir Shahar has recently released a really great resource on Shaolin that indicates much about the manuals etc, who wrote them and there is a large list of citations in this book as well. Worth investigating.

It takes real effort to dive into this stuff. But it's not that it isn't there to dive into. But do you have a few years?(decades) lol :)

You could train to fight, meditate, spar etc and do it well without even knowing about any of it. We are all human and though some of us work hard to do special things, no one has anything particularly magic to offer. :)

To be sure and this has been indicated several times now, the Ancient Shaolin were most well versed in work with the staff. Little is available on pugilism, but there is some. Anyway, I would recommend reading Shahar's book an take it from there. The citations are many. Those will keep you busy for a long time.

here's the amazon link: http://www.amazon.ca/The-Shaolin-Monastery-History-Religion/dp/082483349X

Also, you could read Gene's stuff. always an interesting tidbit or two in that. :)

[lkfmdc]

"spiked" has been pegged

http://lpaustin.com/wp-content/uploads/crying-baby-300x300.jpg

did it hurt? :D

[Spiked]

Translated versions are not easy to obtain.
some you will find in translated and reinterpreted versions.
But like most old books, they are not updated, translated etc.

To that end, people out there that actually do research are helpful. Yang Jwing Ming as translated many old manuals and modernized the presentation of the material. Dr.Meir Shahar has recently released a really great resource on Shaolin that indicates much about the manuals etc, who wrote them and there is a large list of citations in this book as well. Worth investigating.

It takes real effort to dive into this stuff. But it's not that it isn't there to dive into. But do you have a few years?(decades) lol :)

You could train to fight, meditate, spar etc and do it well without even knowing about any of it. We are all human and though some of us work hard to do special things, no one has anything particularly magic to offer. :)

To be sure and this has been indicated several times now, the Ancient Shaolin were most well versed in work with the staff. Little is available on pugilism, but there is some. Anyway, I would recommend reading Shahar's book an take it from there. The citations are many. Those will keep you busy for a long time.

here's the amazon link: http://www.amazon.ca/The-Shaolin-Monastery-History-Religion/dp/082483349X

Thanks, David JAMIESON. I know a person can learn to do all that without the knowledge. Some would be good to have when someone is saying, "Well this is how my sifu trained, and his sifu before him" and on and on and on.

[lkfmdc]

Thanks, David JAMIESON.



careful Jamieson, I smell a mancrush :eek:

[pazman]

It is definitely too much to ask for especially since I am busy producing fighters that are destroying the competition.

Learning Chinese? You are serious? People in this country need to learn English first. Forget Chinese.

You are right. I would recommend before learning a difficult language developing critical thinking first. Does your training cause you to lose brain cells?

You also have to get the pee pee out of your anoos.

[Spiked]

careful Jamieson, I smell a mancrush :eek:

It is better than the smell from that dirty gym of yours. Mothers with kids on yelp do not lie.

[Spiked]

You are right. I would recommend before learning a difficult language developing critical thinking first. Does your training cause you to lose brain cells?

You also have to get the pee pee out of your anoos.

Getting hit in the head does indeed kill brain cells. If you did not know that then we cannot continue chatting. :confused:

[GeneChing]

Qi Jiguang's 紀效新書 and 練兵實紀 can still be read intact
Check out Peter Lorge's discussion Qi Jiguang in a modern context on our ezine: What MMA Has to Teach Us about Chinese Martial Arts (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1098). Then check out Peter Lorge's work: Chinese Martial Arts: From Antiquity to the Twenty-First Century by Peter Lorge (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62608).

There's also an old thread here: Qi Jiguang's chapter on boxing in English (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59759).

Just like the eyes lead the fists, a little searching before posting is always prudent here. ;)

[lkfmdc]

You are right. I would recommend before learning a difficult language developing critical thinking first. Does your training cause you to lose brain cells?



you have to have had brain cells to damage them :D

I note that "spiked" is making more friends every minute he is on here ;)

[Spiked]

you have to have had brain cells to damage them :D

I note that "spiked" is making more friends every minute he is on here ;)

I have real friends, David Ross. I do not need people on the internet to like me. Are you one of those people that payed for twitter followers? Lol. I knew it!

[pazman]

Getting hit in the head does indeed kill brain cells. If you did not know that then we cannot continue chatting. :confused:

Maybe I'm crazy but I typically teach my students how to hold their hands up and use footwork to avoid getting hit as much as they can. After many years of training I can still learn a new language, do math problems, write software...useful things. You came into this thread with presumptions, and got bent out of shape when you find out learning something new is actually going require effort.

Your brand of meathead is a disgrace to the rest of us who train in modern martial arts.

[Spiked]

Maybe I'm crazy but I typically teach my students how to hold their hands up and use footwork to avoid getting hit as much as they can. After many years of training I can still learn a new language, do math problems, write software...useful things. You came into this thread with presumptions, and got bent out of shape when you find out learning something new is actually going require effort.

Your brand of meathead is a disgrace to the rest of us who train in modern martial arts.

Bent out of shape????? Lol.

I just have one question. You do know that getting hit in the head KILLS brain cells right? Did you know that before i brought it up to you? I am not sure now. OH my god.

Are you insinuating that your students never get hit in the head???? They must be amazing and you must be an amazing teacher...or you guys are not really sparring.

[Spiked]

DAvid, are you happy? Now one of your pals is trolling me as well.

Are you two going to destroy every thread I post on?

[lkfmdc]

DAvid, are you happy? Now one of your pals is trolling me as well.

Are you two going to destroy every thread I post on?

if it upsets you then you can contact Gene and ask him to ban us :D

or you can just leave.... don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out

[Spiked]

if it upsets you then you can contact Gene and ask him to ban us :D

or you can just leave.... don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out

You do not bother me at all because the fighters I produce are so amazing.

[lkfmdc]

yup, brain damage
he has no new maerial

and the old material wasn't good to begin with

I say you just pack up and leave, Gene said when you leave he'll give everyone nacho popcorn

[pazman]

Bent out of shape????? Lol.

I just have one question. You do know that getting hit in the head KILLS brain cells right? Did you know that before i brought it up to you? I am not sure now. OH my god.

Are you insinuating that your students never get hit in the head???? They must be amazing and you must be an amazing teacher...or you guys are not really sparring.

I've "insinuated" that you are as dumb as rocks. Now whether that is your training prerogative to be "punch dumb", something your mother did to you while young, or something innate, I don't know. But in nearly every post you've had seems to be a gaping wound of stupidity.

[Spiked]

I've "insinuated" that you are as dumb as rocks. Now whether that is your training prerogative to be "punch dumb", something your mother did to you while young, or something innate, I don't know. But in nearly every post you've had seems to be a gaping wound of stupidity.

And yet you are the guy who is claiming his students do not ever get hit in the head because you teach them to put their hands up and you are also the guy who did not know that getting hit in the head kills brain cells.

When you and your students spar is it slap boxing? These guys did not lose any brain cells just like you and your students.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owEYUpcYFTs

[GeneChing]

Now one of your pals is trolling me as well.
More will probably come too. That's just how our forum works sometimes. It's sort of a martial thing around here. It's like the 36 chambers, and you're stuck in chamber 15 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1251363#post1251363). How you manage to extricate yourself, if indeed you do, is the stuff of forum legends. :rolleyes:

[Spiked]

More will probably come too. That's just how our forum works sometimes. It's sort of a martial thing around here. It's like the 36 chambers, and you're stuck in chamber 15 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1251363#post1251363). How you manage to extricate yourself, if indeed you do, is the stuff of forum legends. :rolleyes:

I plan on extricating myself well. :)

There was blood in the water when my ex decided to swim at the wrong time of the month. I have been trying to live down this dishonor ever since.

[lkfmdc]

More will probably come too.



at the rate he is going, their numbers will be legion :cool:

but in any case, have your 66% popcorn formula ready

[GeneChing]

And I'm fresh outta cheese.

Now is a good time to post the RTC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGZpWOMGJCM).

[wenshu]

More will probably come too. That's just how our forum works sometimes. It's sort of a martial thing around here. It's like the 36 chambers, and you're stuck in chamber 15 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1251363#post1251363). How you manage to extricate yourself, if indeed you do, is the stuff of forum legends.

Be like **** in elevator, grasshopper.