Kung Fu (Hung) Concepts Basic Entries, Grabs & Misc

[Subitai]

What's up Guys...

I decided to do some more detailed work explaning how Hung Kyun can adapt and apply. They are supposed to be viewed in order Hung Gar Concepts #1 - 5... the details might make more sense in this regard.

Nobody else from the Hung Gar community has realy come forth and given out this type of information yet. Mostly it's been forms or foundation training. Why? Because in truth, most of the schools I see out there DO NOT know how to apply their bridging concepts on NON traditional people. So they end up training forms but fighting like Kick Boxers. This is a shame in my opinion.

Do they cover everything? No of course not, these are just some simple concepts

If you like it great! If not, well you can't please everyone. I know what works for me and I've got the experience to make it work.

So if you want to, please visit My YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Subitai

P.S. It would be nice if someone else were to step up and try to "Up the Ante" on this and keep this going by making MORE VIDS with even better details about HUNG...kinda like what the Wing Chun guys do.

[Snipsky]

Why? Because in truth, most of the schools I see out there DO NOT know how to apply their bridging concepts on NON traditional people. So they end up training forms but fighting like Kick Boxers. This is a shame in my opinion.

no one fights like what you say. fighting isn't as slow or organized like traditional kung fu. you must know how to do this and not be tied down by tradition.

it is more important to know to fight using the gung fu, no one said you have to act like a movie to fight. the old masters you see in video's dont fight like this. they looks terribles.

[hskwarrior]

i'm seein lots of similarities in our hsclf.

[Subitai]

no one fights like what you say. fighting isn't as slow or organized like traditional kung fu. you must know how to do this and not be tied down by tradition.

it is more important to know to fight using the gung fu, no one said you have to act like a movie to fight. the old masters you see in video's dont fight like this. they looks terribles.

I think it must be a misunderstanding... Snipsky, I NEVER SAID fighting was slow or needed to look like a movie to fight. In fact, what i'm showing is exactly some simple concepts on how to bridge and fight using kung fu. I explain a few details as to how to enter and make it work. NO, not all of them but enough to understand...

Fighters will know exactly what i'm talking about. People who only do forms and talk allot will be the only ones to give negative comments. But i've expected that will happen.

[hskwarrior]

I think it must be a misunderstanding... Snipsky, I NEVER SAID fighting was slow or needed to look like a movie to fight. In fact, what i'm showing is exactly some simple concepts on how to bridge and fight using kung fu. I explain a few details as to how to enter and make it work. NO, not all of them but enough to understand...

Fighters will know exactly what i'm talking about. People who only do forms and talk allot will be the only ones to give negative comments. But i've expected that will happen.

don't worry bro. its not all lost on everyone.

[5thBrother]

Many Thanks sharing Subitai.

[Golden Arms]

Great stuff Subitai. Some overlap with how I teach (which was cool to see). I really like that you have some common sense worked into how you are approaching entering (the pak/check to sau choi) was one I don't usually teach to lead in with but liked the look of.

A common one for us might be right foot to right foot lead, back hand check their lead hand, lead hand gua chi or back fist. If they try to stop the backfist with their rear hand, so sau/kiu sau that hand across them with my rear hand, rotate into side horse and yut ji choi/vertical fist to middle or lower level, then use the rear hand to fu jow or punch to the head level. If they dont stop the back fist and get hit, you just start rushing them attacking between the various levels.

[ginosifu]

Great stuff there Onasis. Always good stuuf comin from my kung fu brother.... keep up the good work.

ginosifu

[Subitai]

hskwarrior.. :)

Hey Golden Arms...Of course you'd see all that, haha we study the same style. :)


Great stuff there Onasis. Always good stuuf comin from my kung fu brother.... keep up the good work.

ginosifu


Gino Thanks, and sorry to call this out but technically I'm your uncle not your brother... since family wise I learned directly from your grandteacher . It's family respect, when I talk to Gene I try to always call him Si Hing, not because he demands it. But because I have respect for all the years he studied with Sifu. Just sayin' you know?
It's not a bad thing mind you..Which technically means that If I ever came out to visit your school...i'd be obligated to make sure I teach you even better than outsiders. As in my personal repetoire.

But yes in kung fu spirit...thanks bro! :D

"O"

[ginosifu]

hskwarrior.. :)

Hey Golden Arms...Of course you'd see all that, haha we study the same style. :)




Gino Thanks, and sorry to call this out but technically I'm your uncle not your brother... since family wise I learned directly from your grandteacher . It's family respect, when I talk to Gene I try to always call him Si Hing, not because he damands it. But because I have respect for all the years he studied with Sifu. Just sayin' you know?
It's not a bad thing mind you..Which technically means that If I ever came out to visit your school...i'd be obligated to make sure I teach you even better than outsiders. As in my personal repetoire.

But yes in kung fu spirit...thanks bro! :D

"O"

Yes Sibok..... no pun intended.... still I liked your interpretations of the movements.

ginosifu

[Golden Arms]

Hey Golden Arms...Of course you'd see all that, haha we study the same style. :)

"O"
Subitai,

It would be neat to cross paths one day, I spend a lot of my time working Pak Mei nowadays, but I will always have love and respect for Hung Gar, its truly no nonsense and functional.

[Subitai]

Yeah Golden... mabe we could meet up half way in Brother Gino's Area...He throws a good tourney. :):)


Or I could take a phrase outta Dale's patented response book..."My door is always open". hahaha.

*** Just kidding you Dale. :cool: ( I saw another guy joke on you about that phrase)

Let me know if you're ever on the east coast.

Yum Cha

[Brule]

That's some good stuff there 'O'. A couple of things i liked, mentioning the thumbless grip to extend the oppenents arm. And the opponents shoulders....one forward then the other must be further back.

[Subitai]

Here's a new one:

Traditional Hung Gar Skills 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dqhe-fVsL4



"O"

[YouKnowWho]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVMxxZJnPz0

At 4.29, did you use the word "崩(Beng) - Cracking"? I haven't heard this term used in many TCMA styles for a long time. In this clip, I also like your "against 1 finger vs. against 4 fingers" principle. We use "against 4 fingers" for grip strength development. We use "against 1 finger" in application. Also, your downward approach at 3.15. Most people will turn against the thumb and open himself up (it's a trap).

Excellent clips. Thanks for sharing.

[YouKnowWho]

A common one for us might be right foot to right foot lead, back hand check their lead hand, lead hand gua chi or back fist. If they try to stop the backfist with their rear hand, so ...

IMO, everybody should drill this entering strategy to death. It will be extreamly interest to compare different respond from different styles on this method of "open the door and then enter". What will a boxer, MT guy, WC guy, longfist guy, Hung Chuan guy, ... may respond to this?

A longfist guy may respond in the following way.

- borrow the force from your back checking hand and spin his right leading arm into a haymaker.
- stealing step his left foot behind his right foot and move his body to be outside of your right hand striking path.

[Subitai]

Hi John...thanks,

At 4:29...I said "Bong" (it's hard to put into English = Cantonese words anyway)...haha You would know better then me.

But in Hung Style Bong Sao is not just a block...it can be used as a Wing to break or disrupt someone's structure. In this case we use the Bong sao to "Separate or Divide" at the elbow.

In that instance..the key element is holding his left arm out so that it is "Extended or LONG".

What is important is the ability to "follow" the energy of my opponent. If I pull his left arm to make it LONG and he resists me....then I Follow his resist and counter his technique in the same way he is fighting me.

:) "O"

[YouKnowWho]

But in Hung Style Bong Sao is not just a block...it can be used as a Wing to break or disrupt someone's structure.
In SC, Beng (or Bong) is also used to put pressure on the elbow joint and force him to move unwillingly. So we speak the same language as far as the Beng (or Bong) is concern.

[Bernard]

Here's a new one:

Traditional Hung Gar Skills 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dqhe-fVsL4



"O"

I like it. Hung seems similar to some of the things I've learned. For example I learned a similar technique that you used at 1:20 you grabbed your partner left wrist and counter with a strike. At that point though, if that strike was blocked, my personally preference is to off balance the opponent by pulling on the left wrist (since I'm already got a hold on it) and to use the striking arm to put pressure on the elbow joint (hopefully wrenching it).

Keep it coming.

[Golden Arms]

IMO, everybody should drill this entering strategy to death. It will be extreamly interest to compare different respond from different styles on this method of "open the door and then enter". What will a boxer, MT guy, WC guy, longfist guy, Hung Chuan guy, ... may respond to this?

A longfist guy may respond in the following way.

- borrow the force from your back checking hand and spin his right leading arm into a haymaker.
- stealing step his left foot behind his right foot and move his body to be outside of your right hand striking path.

Those are both responses I have come across, the stealing step less often than the hook/haymaker. We often parry the haymaker in that situation with a movement that looks like talking on a telephone/hair combing backwards, the rest is situational at that point depending on how both people are moving.

[YouKnowWho]

hair combing backwards, ...

I'll call that "arm wrapping". Did some WC guy call that Tan Shou?

[Subitai]

2 more today...err tonite :)

Kung Fu Basic mind your openings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tfi9Q5k7qk&index=1&list=UUSl9ULX5Yzb5gPk3R055hDw

Hung Gar Concepts 6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ9vGvdm30g&list=UUSl9ULX5Yzb5gPk3R055hDw

[YouKnowWho]

The "entering strategy" is always an excellent discussion subject. Many good points have been shown in both clips. Thanks for sharing.

IMO, if you use

- mirror stance (you have right side forward, your opponent has left side forward), your opponent's back leg can kick/knee your belly (as you have addressed).
- uniform stance (both with left side forward), your opponent's back leg can still sweep your leading leg.

The risk does exist in both situations. It's just different.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tfi9Q5k7qk&index=1

[Subitai]

The "entering strategy" is always an excellent discussion subject. Many good points have been shown in both clips. Thanks for sharing.

IMO, if you use

- mirror stance (you have right side forward, your opponent has left side forward), your opponent's back leg can kick/knee your belly (as you have addressed).
- uniform stance (both with left side forward), your opponent's back leg can still sweep your leading leg.

The risk does exist in both situations. It's just different.



Yes...excellent points, John I agree.

My main point from the "Mind your openings" video is that:

The entering combo of (punch ----> lower kick) is so very common in many styles = it is meant to be a warning to keep your crotch protected.

I wanted to illustrate this concept because I had recently seen someone leaving their crotch open (mirror stance) in a demo.

Every teacher i've ever interacted with would assert the basic foundation that you never willingly leave your groin open to the kick if you can help it. If i'm going to be kicked...i'd rather it be somewhere else 1st, than in my groin. :)

[YouKnowWho]

The entering combo of (punch ----> lower kick) is so very common in many styles ...
Agree, the

1. (bow-arrow stance) grab, punch,
2. kick and punch at the same time,
3. (horse stance) punch,

combo also exists in long fist system forms such as:

- Tantui (2nd road),
- Mai Fu Chuan,
- Tai Zu long fist,
- ...

It's one of the "long fist" system logos and good challenge for body coordination.

IMO, when you punch and kick at the same time, that kick can be a

- toes push kick,
- heel kick,
- roundhouse kick,
- knee strike,
- foot sweep,
- ...

[crazedjustice88]

We have the same kind of thing in the hop gar system and I accidently kicked my friend in the groin with it. He turned his stance too soon and well...yeah...

Good videos O, always enjoying seeing them in my subscriptions box.

[YouKnowWho]

In your 2nd clip, I like what you did for

- grab your opponent's wrist,
- when your opponent tries to break your wrist grabbing, you change your wrist grab into a punch,
- when your opponent grab your wrist, you drop elbow into his chest,
- you use hand to push on your opponent's elbow joint and force his leading arm to jam his back arm,
- ...

One interest thing is, when your opponent grabs on your wrist, in order to break his wrist grip, sometime he forces you to make the following 2 decisions:

You may twist your arm against his

- thumb, this will take less effort, but sometime you may open yourself up (this is why he grabs you this way).
- 4 fingers, this will take more effort, but you won't expose your center.

The game plan is applied right at this moment.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ9vGvdm30g

[Subitai]

I'm glad you caught that John...very observant about turning towards the thumb or the back of the hand ( 4 fingers)

I was exactly trying to explain those observations right here in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVMxxZJnPz0&t=2m42s

[YouKnowWho]

That's a good clip too. I like your counter against the triangle shoulder lock. I have seen many teachers teach that offense move. I haven't seen many teachers teach counter for that move.

Does your system train how to "catch a fast punch"? Many people said that a full speed punch is impossible to grab. IMO, nothing is impossible. If you train 100 fast punches catching daily, your successful rate will be higher. If you are used to catch a fast punch, you can catch a slow punch, or non moving arm much easier. Some people also say that is "chasing arm". But it has a lot value for my favor "octopus strategy". I enjoy that kind of challenge in my daily training very much.

What's your opinion on the training for "catching a fast punch (wrist grab)"?

[Subitai]

That's a good clip too. I like your counter against the triangle shoulder lock. I have seen many teachers teach that offense move. I haven't seen many teachers teach counter for that move.

Does your system train how to "catch a fast punch"? Many people said that a full speed punch is impossible to grab. IMO, nothing is impossible. If you train 100 fast punches catching daily, your successful rate will be higher. If you are used to catch a fast punch, you can catch a slow punch, or non moving arm much easier. Some people also say that is "chasing arm". But it has a lot value for my favor "octopus strategy". I enjoy that kind of challenge in my daily training very much.

What's your opinion on the training for "catching a fast punch (wrist grab)"?

Now you are really talking about fighting...at least in a modern sense. I respect that because nobody will just punch and hold their hand out there.

To a degree...In my HG concepts series 1, I tried to address one aspect of dealing with this (i.e. a fast punch)

Most options are:

1) Avoid it all together (usually with superior footwork and body spacing ) and or hit back simultaneously.

2) Intercept it...be it a block or padding type motion (to soften it) and also using a hook to slow it down...to also hit back

3) Catch it... which is really a discussion all by itself.

-In my opinion the better you are...the more you just set your opponent up and allow him to GIVE it to you.
-It always works better this way, as opposed to trying it immediately right at the very start of the fight perhaps on the very 1st punch. No not a good idea.

- How the catch is done is usually a combination of block, intercept and also IMO...the use of a 2 on 1 senario. Meaning 2 hands vs 1 arm / wrist.
This, in combination with good fighting experience will get the job done. You just know "when to hold them and when to fold them" :)

...I can't believe i quoted Kenny Rogers!

[YouKnowWho]

Agree!

1) Dodge - too conservative, your opponent will punch you again.
2) Intercept - more aggressive but not aggressive enough.
3) Catch/wrap - the most aggressive approach, also the most difficult to achieve, but the reward is great. You can take your opponent's punching ability away and force him to play your favor grappling game (if you are a grappler).

I also agree that if you are in your opponent's

- side door, 2 on 1 is much easier and safer approach. You can use your opponent's leading arm to jam his back arm.
- front door, separate hands (your right arm wraps on your opponent's left arm, and your left arm wraps on his right arm) may be better. You can use both hands to control both of his arms.


-It always works better this way, as opposed to trying it immediately right at the very start of the fight perhaps on the very 1st punch. No not a good idea.
The 1st punch usually is not a committed punch. It's easy to catch the thin air and fall into your opponent's trap. One of my favor set ups is to throw a fake punch, when my opponent blocks it, I pull my punch back, and punch him again right at the same spot "after" his blocking arm is passed.

[Subitai]

Traditional Drills 2


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GleMcrK_fhw&feature=youtu.be

[Subitai]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-B5BTcJy9o

[boxerbilly]

Subitai,

Some really great to outstanding ideas/concepts in those videos.

I am sure many here know some or even all of them but I am also sure some do not. Or had been taught it but could not get it they way explained them at the time. Perhaps by watching and listening to you, they get a "a'ha" moment and it all falls into place.

Thanks for taking the time to make this for people interested.

[Subitai]

Subitai,

Some really great to outstanding ideas/concepts in those videos.

I am sure many here know some or even all of them but I am also sure some do not. Or had been taught it but could not get it they way explained them at the time. Perhaps by watching and listening to you, they get a "a'ha" moment and it all falls into place.

Thanks for taking the time to make this for people interested.


Thanks Dude! :)

[SteveLau]

Subitai,

You have shown good materials. If there is free fight training video clip, please show it too. That will help to prevent misunderstanding, and tell us you gentlemen's fighting method in real fight.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[Subitai]

Subitai,

You have shown good materials. If there is free fight training video clip, please show it too. That will help to prevent misunderstanding, and tell us you gentlemen's fighting method in real fight.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong


KC,

I don't try to hide my background if that's what you're implying, for example here: http://cykwoon.freewebspace.com/about.html

As for videos unfortunately most of them are from 20yrs ago, you can watch them, for example most people have seen this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO_b5lP6Blo

But I'm a very different fighter now then I was back then. I'm more mature and not so hasty. I would venture to guess that most people should be much improved when they compare themselves VS how they were 20yrs into their youth. I know I'm allot better than I was back then.

Currently, I try to touch hands with anyone who wants to but I'm not interested in making enemies. Life is too short for that IMO.

That being said, as for kung fu age I'm still fairly young and strong with no major injuries...so when I teach seminars I'm always ready to throw down on some A-hole who wants to challenge me. I have to be ready for that still, because I'm not some famous old Chinese teacher who won't get challenged.

What I'm trying to do is show to people how to use some traditional methods in a more modern format. Most of the things I've shown, I can pull off on people if I can set them up properly. Believe me, there's allot of methods or Concepts that I also learned in Hung Style that I think are out- dated or unusable in a fight. I tend to concentrate on what I know has worked for me and if not...I often tell my students which ones I don't like.

"O"

[Jimbo]

You're doing great stuff, Subitai! Keep up the good work.

[bawang]

Believe me, there's allot of methods or Concepts that I also learned in Hung Style that I think are out- dated or unusable in a fight. I tend to concentrate on what I know has worked for me and if not...I often tell my students which ones I don't like.

"O"

what is the hung kuen fighting stance

[Subitai]

what is the hung kuen fighting stance

I personally don't think there is one. You just have to be in the moment, stand natural, put your hands up and be ready is what I say...but nothing specific.

*** Other guys will disagree with me on this but I think kung fu in general works best when you counter your opponent. That is specifically, if you can get the other guy to give you energy then it works so much better.

That isn't to say that you can't attack with KF, sure you can. ( you can also attack to get a response ) I realize that allot people prefer "Attack is the best defense" method and some styles are more geared up for that. I'm just telling you my own preference.


But since you asked, I think the people out there that have a fantasy version of what KF should look like in a fight will probably vote for someone standing LOW in a horse stance. Perhaps with the Kiu Sao extended or mabe the classic Wong Fei Hung Pose ala "Asking hand".

But IMO, there's no reason to display your stance of readiness or what you do to the other person.

It's nice to take photos like this ( http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j172/Subitai/O_HSF%20pose.jpg ) for a shoot but I'd never stand like that for a fight...it would just waste energy.

[bawang]

I personally don't think there is one.

with all these videos of you demonstrating your knowledge of hung gar fighting have you ever actually tried finding out hung gar fighting stance

[Kellen Bassette]

Modified high horse stance, on a 45 degree angle.

[boxerbilly]

I personally don't think there is one. You just have to be in the moment, stand natural, put your hands up and be ready is what I say...but nothing specific.

*** Other guys will disagree with me on this but I think kung fu in general works best when you counter your opponent. That is specifically, if you can get the other guy to give you energy then it works so much better.

That isn't to say that you can't attack with KF, sure you can. ( you can also attack to get a response ) I realize that allot people prefer "Attack is the best defense" method and some styles are more geared up for that. I'm just telling you my own preference.


But since you asked, I think the people out there that have a fantasy version of what KF should look like in a fight will probably vote for someone standing LOW in a horse stance. Perhaps with the Kiu Sao extended or mabe the classic Wong Fei Hung Pose ala "Asking hand".

But IMO, there's no reason to display your stance of readiness or what you do to the other person.

It's nice to take photos like this ( http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j172/Subitai/O_HSF%20pose.jpg ) for a shoot but I'd never stand like that for a fight...it would just waste energy.


This was a very good post.

So, watch how close it gets. I know you guys know this. Yet, I think many of us forget this or train ourselves out of this. We seek space. Away from but that is not often the case. In another thread Ed was showing examples. Clearly there needs to be space to demo or you might not see things. But it often is a hatbill away. I know you would never let that happen. IT HAPPENS.

This punch did not knock anyone out and then what happens could happen to anyone- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0dqm957raU

Not many of us can defeat this- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soGl0ugFB7Q

If you do get space. If you do have time. Then ones ways we do something may work very, very good. How many use find those ways in their arts for this close? How many spend enough time dealing with that ?

Grapplers do. They can work that close. A lot of your arts have grappling. But your strike if you prefer that. Can you work that that close. A WC guy may be able to use his sensitivity training. Every art probably has a way even if that distance is not what they spend most of their time on.

Now we are adults. WE avoid this crap and most of us have mastered not even being there. But the kids you teach. It will likely happen to them at least once in their lives. If they go looking for trouble or fun if they think like that, it will almost always look like that. Some times as close. Sometimes a little bit further away.
And look for cues. Sometimes guys step back because they feel smothered. The may need distance to hit. That step back may be the cue they be hitting you right after. Those kind of things.

edit- I am using the word "work" to mean they spend a lot of time in practice that close. Not to imply another art can not work there. To bring attention to what and where do you spend the bulk of your time. That may be where you find yourself all the time especially if you are teaching certain arts. Your students may find themselves at a different distance at kick off.

Also, I know there are people that get upset over range talk and that crap. Okay, for you there are really only 2 ranges. That which you can engage and that which you can not. Others may need segmentation orientation to that which you can do something in the position in relationship to Mr. Mean guy. I always find it funny when guys get angry about that. Look I can still punch you at kicking range. Yeah, because your arms are as long as my legs. I cant punch you though. I am in your punching range but you are not in mine.

[bawang]

Modified high horse stance, on a 45 degree angle.

what is it called

[boxerbilly]

I want to veer this off one more time into so called "self defense" . Regardless your art. Fact is the vast majority of schools teach kids. Now, I don't care how any one runs the little kids programs. It is babysitting or getting the little guy to do anything active and make friends which seldom works in my opinion. Parents!
You have to make a buck. Why not? But the TEENS. This guys come wanting to learn to fight. Old people want self defense. I worry about the teens.

Now I posted examples of man this happens. This is more than likely. It is so common make it a focus. The other end of the spectrum is agreed upon fights. Teens have always and will always do this. IT HAPPENS. The streets have rules ! If you don't know those rules you may pay for that. And when we have rules , what is it again? A sport. A potentially dangerous one but TEENS are stupid. Have not tasted their mortality yet. You recall those strong feelings and emotions you had during that time ? Let me put it this way. How many men here, can still cry ? It gets harder and harder and only the most catastrophic of things will cause that. Heck, I've known old men that did not even cry when their wives of 50 years died. I know, after that long, I would not either. She drove me nuts! But, really it is because certain things chemically are no longer there in massive amounts.

Back to point, RULES, you bust them and you will find out fast and hard when his boys start beating the crap out of you that **** don't fly. Even then rules apply but they are nastier in what the crowd can do to you for breaking the rules. Where I live BOXING is predominate on certain streets. Now you can veer off it a little but man you do things you aint supposed to, you better be able to make it look like an accident. Now in white boy places, believe it or not you can get away with a lot more. The burbs. But there is still rules. Black boys places around here it will be boxing. Wrestling is allowed but people will break you up if it stays there to long and that's usually what happens. They stall on the ground. Where in White boy places it will likely go there. But you can kick , punch , elbow, pull hair. Unless the crowd starts yelling at you. Better to stop.

Puerto Rican places again what are the rules? Better know them. You elbow one of those black kids in his street on an agreed upon fight and the rest of the hood is descending on you my friend. In white boy places they generally separate you and maybe one really big kid will be in your face threating to stomp your head if you ever pull that **** again. You will probably get hit too. Better not hit him back. Then you get 1-2 more on you.Now do not just assume, you can ask what those rules are. If you are lucky they may say, box mother-!@#$%. But again, you can do some other stuff and it wont come down on you. Usually, you will get, "there aint no rules mother!@#$%. So you do something you ain;t supposed to and your got a gang beat down on your hands.

So, perhaps some will understand my preference for sport. Even when you think their are no rules there usually are rules. Can your art work inside of rules? Again, the kids, The teens. They show up to learn to fight. Might help to understand what is allowed where. What part of town might that be a bit different?
This is the group of students most likely to use the art in any way shape or form. If you know what the predominate style for street rules way is where you live, you can build around what they have to contend with. You can use your karate, kung fu or whatever else you do, but it has to be in the rules of that street. Where there are no rules. YES THERE IS ! And teens will always have a beef with another teen.

[Kellen Bassette]

what is it called

I don't know the Cantonese name.

[bawang]

I don't know the Cantonese name.

then how you find out abut that fighting stance

[Kellen Bassette]

then how you find out abut that fighting stance

Wong Fei Hung taught me on the astral plane, by gnosis.

[bawang]

Wong Fei Hung taught me on the astral plane, by gnosis.

this is actual quite serious matter

the guy has fought in cage match representing hung kuen and now teaching students to pass on tradition. but thinks hung kuen has no fighting stance

do you see the problem in american kung fu

not attacking my pinoy brother just stating a serious matter for dicussion and also aid his kung fu teaching

[Subitai]

For the record...I have already said what my preference is, i.e. to counter and to just stand natural. What I do, doesn't account for everyone else.

There are plenty of stances or postures within the system but I.M.O., "those who cling to style will ultimately fail by them" = Meaning no one style can do it all. It's just a fact and not a negative or anything to worry about.


Why pigeon hole everyone into a stance anyway? One man may like to stand in the classic Kiu Sao in horse stance...another may be more upright. Who cares what stance you're in after the 1st contact is made. Without contact, there is no fight.

I think it was Bruce Lee (or maybe someone else??) who correctly said; "that a strong stance isn't really necessary until contact is made". But I'm fairly certain he said something to that effect.

I agree with this modus.


It's like art...you learn the foundation and then you express it your own way. I use my styles to get to my ultimate goal ie win...but we must also enlighten above them. That doesn't mean I that I don't transmit my knowledge in a traditional way 1st. Everyone learns the same, but I have evolved just like Mathematics or Science..it's only natural.

[bawang]

For the record...I have already said what my preference is, i.e. to counter and to just stand natural. What I do, doesn't account for everyone else.

There are plenty of stances or postures within the system but I.M.O., "those who cling to style will ultimately fail by them" = Meaning no one style can do it all. It's just a fact and not a negative or anything to worry about.




since you have fighting background i thought maybe intergrity is important to you and if you want to pursue traditional aspects of kung fu you might be curious about what is the hung kuen fighting stance.

with all these complex head spinning tricks and moves rigidly and strictly taught how can there be no fighting stance. how can fighting stance be unimportant

[Kellen Bassette]

I'd like to hear more.

[boxerbilly]

For the record...I have already said what my preference is, i.e. to counter and to just stand natural. What I do, doesn't account for everyone else.

There are plenty of stances or postures within the system but I.M.O., "those who cling to style will ultimately fail by them" = Meaning no one style can do it all. It's just a fact and not a negative or anything to worry about.


Why pigeon hole everyone into a stance anyway? One man may like to stand in the classic Kiu Sao in horse stance...another may be more upright. Who cares what stance you're in after the 1st contact is made. Without contact, there is no fight.

I think it was Bruce Lee (or maybe someone else??) who correctly said; "that a strong stance isn't really necessary until contact is made". But I'm fairly certain he said something to that effect.

I agree with this modus.


It's like art...you learn the foundation and then you express it your own way. I use my styles to get to my ultimate goal ie win...but we must also enlighten above them. That doesn't mean I that I don't transmit my knowledge in a traditional way 1st. Everyone learns the same, but I have evolved just like Mathematics or Science..it's only natural.

You express yourself very well in words and in your videos. I agree if you found what works consistently for you then stick with it. Certainly see what else is there but as I have stated before. Not everyone can do everything. Or something's may take so long to make usable , one may not have the time. Another may. Some want to be the best in their art. To know and be able to do it all. Others just want to be able to use it if needed. Get me there as fast as you can, please. Others it is an escape that is fun, makes them think, all that stuff. Call it a hobby. Some of those guys stick around so long that they get very good at things. It may have not been their intent first day . Not even sure if they were going to stick around. 20 years later, he knows a lot. Maybe more than they guy running the school.

I really enjoy your posts. I feel that way about a few of you guys that post other places too.

[Subitai]

Boxerbilly, some astute observations...also read what u said earlier about space. Again nice, but just to say; anyone whos got fighting experience will know how important that is. My take on that is just beating on the same ol drum, "I just follow whatever it is you give me." I hope that's not too vague, I have posted about that concept before. Knicknamed it: the "gun n bullet principle"


Bawang, about fighting stance? You're joking me right? U must be, because the higher level a persons skill, the more they relax and let go of such concerns. It doesn't mean for example that I have poor footwork. ..on the contrary, u can get so good that u dont have to think about how to issue power with a proper stance.

Physical attributes and foundations are fine for learning the basics. But imo...knowing your skills intimately and to set people up is the crux of most people problem when applying. This area is my personal obsession.

[bawang]

Bawang, about fighting stance? You're joking me right? U must be, because the higher level a persons skill, the more they relax and let go of such concerns.

if a high level person doesnt need to worry about fighting stance what about beginners


I'd like to hear more.

u ever train hung kuen befor or any southern kung fu

[Kellen Bassette]

u ever train hung kuen befor or any southern kung fu
Yes.......

[bawang]

Yes.......

u wanna know the hung kuen fighting stance

r u jelly of my fabulurs knwledge bro

[Kellen Bassette]

u wanna know the hung kuen fighting stance

r u jelly of my fabulurs knwledge bro

I'm always jealous... I secretly want to be a kung fu super villain too, but I am tightey whitey and can't read Chinese. :(

[PalmStriker]

I'm always jealous... I secretly want to be a kung fu super villain too, but I am tightey whitey and can't read Chinese. :(
That's my problem too. So spill it Bawang, "what's the beef?" Say Bawang, did you know that in TCMA there is a "Bawang Fist?":)

[bawang]

choo chee ling appear to me in dream and warn me not to reveal secret hung kuen fighing stance

[PalmStriker]

:) That's understandable. Did that person say anything else? https://www.google.com/search?q=choo+chee+ling&biw=1440&bih=799&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CDEQsARqFQoTCKaHkpSkpMgCFYIfHgodHwwLhw

[Neeros]

False leg, Bow Arrow, Horse, Six-Four, Single leg, Goat, Unicorn...I love how they all can flow together in the footwork to generate a lot of power, and provide a framework for agility and fluidity not really seen in the more bouncy, and/or natural footwork. Only downside is that it takes a lot of dedicated quality practice to ingrain kung fu footwork. I guess that is part of what makes it an art. As an en guard, I like Bow arrow, Six-Four, and False leg depending on the situation.

[Subitai]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DAb6F8e-sA

[Cataphract]

Hi Subitai, I found your videos on Youtube long ago and now I find you here. Greatly appreciated. Thanks. :)

[Subitai]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yzf0Q4LTH8

[YouKnowWho]

What you have shown is the CMA "switching hands" strategy:

- You use your "attacking arm" to punch, your opponent blocks it (forearm contact)
- You use your "defending arm" to guide his blocking arm away from your attacking path.
- You free your "attacking arm" so your "attacking arm" can continue your attack.

More than 50% of the praying mantis techniques builds on top of this strategy. Of course the "attacking arm" and "defending arm" can be switched any time. When that happen, it's called "double switching hands". IMO this make the CMA unique from the boxing art.

[Subitai]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS7C9YZ3znY