Bridging hands used to attack nerve points on the opponent's limbs

[kung fu fighter]

What are some techniques/strategies you use in wing chun to attack Nerve centers such as ulnar nerve/artery, median nerves, brachial artery, axillary artery on the opponent's bridge, when he attacks (Breaking Bridge)?

[Bacon]

The only nerve centers I bother with really are the brachial plexus and perineal nerve. Yeah you can target stuff in the arms but it's going to be pretty low percentage. Even against a grab there are more efficient way of breaking it.

[Yoshiyahu]

By the time you set up the break or try to do any nerve attack you will be hit by his free arm right in the kisser!

[Grumblegeezer]

By the time you set up the break or try to do any nerve attack you will be hit by his free arm right in the kisser!


Whoa!!! Wait a minute... is Yoshi making good sense?

[wtxs]

By the time you set up the break or try to do any nerve attack you will be hit by his free arm right in the kisser!


Whoa!!! Wait a minute... is Yoshi making good sense?

Calm down Geezer ... just a fluke, an meathead requires tons of tenderizing before it can be pliable. ;)

[Yoshiyahu]

Whoa!!! Wait a minute... is Yoshi making good sense?

Yes...Sir..trying to use two hands against one is not what i want to do. I want to hit you so u cant hit me. If i attack an elusive nerve points it will be on your face when where i punch you at...or your neck...Not wrestling you though more like continous strikes if i gain entry.

[Ali. R]

Whoa!!! Wait a minute... is Yoshi making good sense?

He’s not right, just like in “Chin Na” the practitioner that applied the technique is taught to always keep himself in the best position from being hit when applying and learning arm breaks or pressing nerve points.

He just made that up.

[Yoshiyahu]

That is true...But personally i see Chin Na techniques as secondary...Basically i use them as a reaction to my opponent trying to trap my hands or hinder me from hitting them...When you start hitting your opponent too much he will try to slow you down by holding or grabbing your arm...Thats when Chin Na is utilize...When your grabbed in a way where you can't punch...But while i reversing your hold im more than likely kicking you at the same time...An the use of Chin Na for me is to free my hands so i can continue punching you an controlling the bridge..



He’s not right, just like in “Chin Na” the practitioner that applied the technique is taught to always keep himself in the best position from being hit when applying and learning arm breaks or pressing nerve points.

He just made that up.

[Ali. R]

You’re so misinformed and how can you truly believe your own explanations?


That is true...But personally i see Chin Na techniques as secondary...Basically i use them as a reaction to my opponent trying to trap my hands or hinder me from hitting them...When you start hitting your opponent too much he will try to slow you down by holding or grabbing your arm...Thats when Chin Na is utilize...When your grabbed in a way where you can't punch...But while i reversing your hold im more than likely kicking you at the same time...An the use of Chin Na for me is to free my hands so i can continue punching you an controlling the bridge..

Remember you said this:


simply...fighting cant really be explained..He has to be shown...

But yet, you’re doing a whole lot of explaining… Why are you still writing, and if you truly believe that statement you made; why are you continuing to post; Hummmmm?

It’s seems that you’re trolling for information by starting way too many threads on subjects that’s clearly obvious to everyone that you know nothing about,,, dude, you’re just selling snake oil; and you should be ashamed, because it’s a lot of people here that knows and can see right through it.

[JPinAZ]

it took you this long to see that?? I think the same goes for half the posters here, sometimes yourself included. BTW, how's that philipino wonder kid doing that you were trainig to box a few years back? Didn't you say he was going to be pro by now and undefeatable?? ;) You still have a bunch of unanswereed questions here on that..

Actually, Yoshi's been making more sense lately. I have my doubts that it's based on any actual experience of his own, but it's a start..

[Ali. R]

it took you this long to see that?? I think the same goes for half the posters here, sometimes yourself included…

Show me one post on where you think I was winging it, outside of me over speaking about the drug test (forgot). And I can show you many of your post where you didn’t have a clue, because you’re his disciple of ignorance.

Let’s prove our point together and watch me snatch you clean out the frame with facts. Let’s get real, and no fighting just debate. I have no hatred towards you; so this should be real easy.


BTW, how's that philipino wonder kid doing that you were trainig to box a few years back? Didn't you say he was going to be pro by now and undefeatable?? You still have a bunch of unanswereed questions here on that…

First of all, stay with the subject at hand. This has nothing to do with that young man, and he’s still fighting, like you really care; you guys showed no interest in him, but only contempt; just like you’re doing at this moment, hummmm,,, I wonders why?

Every time I prove something to you, you’ll only try to debunk it without substance; why take him through this, he’s done nothing to anyone here. Let’s get real and no fighting, just debate, and show me one post on where you think I was winging it.

[Pakua4581]

Once,in the heat of an "interesting" skirmish,I accidentally ( my intended target was something else) punched a boxer in the inside of his upper arm,between the bicep and tricep muscles,this rendered his arm useless for quite a few days and opened my eyes to the concept of "defanging the snake" and as a result I changed my training somewhat to be able to skillfully try the same stunt again if such an occasion to use it would arise.

[Yoshiyahu]

you are right...my snake oil is $19.99 per bottle...i have some great group rates as well...

How many would you like to buy..



You’re so misinformed and how can you truly believe your own explanations?



Remember you said this:



But yet, you’re doing a whole lot of explaining… Why are you still writing, and if you truly believe that statement you made; why are you continuing to post; Hummmmm?

It’s seems that you’re trolling for information by starting way too many threads on subjects that’s clearly obvious to everyone that you know nothing about,,, dude, you’re just selling snake oil; and you should be ashamed, because it’s a lot of people here that knows and can see right through it.

[Yoshiyahu]

Thank you Jipanz...lol...



it took you this long to see that?? I think the same goes for half the posters here, sometimes yourself included. BTW, how's that philipino wonder kid doing that you were trainig to box a few years back? Didn't you say he was going to be pro by now and undefeatable?? ;) You still have a bunch of unanswereed questions here on that..

Actually, Yoshi's been making more sense lately. I have my doubts that it's based on any actual experience of his own, but it's a start..

[Yoshiyahu]

Really? Punch the inside of his arm? What was he doing a wild hook....I like to get you in the boxing ring to see that in action!!!

A good boxers punches will be fast, snappy and tight...Even the hooks and uppercuts will be tight and close. Not wild and wide looking... also when he throws the hooks its going to be either when he has you back up or when your covered up an just open up. If you gaurd high it will be shot to ribs. if you guard low a shot to the jaw.


But i digress...I take you were talking an actual fight with out gloves. In either case i dont see punching bicep or tricep doing considerable damage for two whole days...I can see it hurting him temporary for two seconds...but then again if his adrenaline is pumping he probably wont feel it while he is attacking...

your best bet is centerline attacks...Basically hit him in the face, throat, groin...Those are the best spots to hit...


Going for a little spot on the arm will leave you chasing his hands that are no threat to you...Unless my opponent hands are obstructing my path way or covering the centerline I dont worry about them. If he is foolish enough to have his gates open i march right in and attack his centerline...Pak Sau and Lop Sau work great to open doors...So you can hit the face.

Bridge your opponent if his guards are in your way or by intercepting his attack.



Once,in the heat of an "interesting" skirmish,I accidentally ( my intended target was something else) punched a boxer in the inside of his upper arm,between the bicep and tricep muscles,this rendered his arm useless for quite a few days and opened my eyes to the concept of "defanging the snake" and as a result I changed my training somewhat to be able to skillfully try the same stunt again if such an occasion to use it would arise.

[JPinAZ]

Show me one post on where you think I was winging it, outside of me over BLAH BLAH BLAH and show me one post on where you think I was winging it.

Last 2 times I tried to discuss wing chun with you, you reverted to talking about g@y porn, your unresolves issues with race, and whatever else you could come up with that had nothing to do with the subject. I don't have to quote it, and thankfully the mods cleaned up that disgussting mess :rolleyes:

There's no real reason to talk any further with you unless we want yet another thread to degrade to that type of garbage. So long

*** time to throw out the garbage posts. ALI = IGNORE LIST. ***

[Ali. R]

Last 2 times I tried to discuss wing chun with you, you reverted to talking about g@y porn............

You just told a lie and everyone here knows it, because it was you that started that bromance crap and said that; "I should get a room with a man", how soon we forget. You lie, just like the post below; and I spoke nothing of porn, that was your comrade.


it took you this long to see that?? I think the same goes for half the posters here, sometimes yourself included...

You couldn’t find anything, huh. Speculation is no proof of anything, and in your case arrogance can be a lot stronger than knowledge, which is common for those that are consistently guessing all the time; same for your fellow apparatchiks.

Then move on and tell another lie somewhere else.

[Eric_H]

Really? Punch the inside of his arm? What was he doing a wild hook....I like to get you in the boxing ring to see that in action!!!

A good boxers punches will be fast, snappy and tight...Even the hooks and uppercuts will be tight and close. Not wild and wide looking... also when he throws the hooks its going to be either when he has you back up or when your covered up an just open up. If you gaurd high it will be shot to ribs. if you guard low a shot to the jaw.


But i digress...I take you were talking an actual fight with out gloves. In either case i dont see punching bicep or tricep doing considerable damage for two whole days...I can see it hurting him temporary for two seconds...but then again if his adrenaline is pumping he probably wont feel it while he is attacking...

your best bet is centerline attacks...Basically hit him in the face, throat, groin...Those are the best spots to hit...


Going for a little spot on the arm will leave you chasing his hands that are no threat to you...Unless my opponent hands are obstructing my path way or covering the centerline I dont worry about them. If he is foolish enough to have his gates open i march right in and attack his centerline...Pak Sau and Lop Sau work great to open doors...So you can hit the face.

Bridge your opponent if his guards are in your way or by intercepting his attack.

You are very uninformed about point striking.

Of course it is easier to hit larger targets such as the head and body. Any idiot with two whits of fighting sense can tell you that.

Arms and Legs can be disabled by hitting certain points. IMO it is more of a "cumulative damage" sort of thing than a guarantee of one shot = dead limb. You see this easily with leg kicks in MMA - you take out the muscle, they can't stand on the leg, their whole fighting ability goes down, this is a form of point striking.

In regards to WC, what points you find valuable and your methods for getting there, that's all lineage specific and not truly worth discussing.

[Lee Chiang Po]

In reality, redirecting a blow does not require hard impact. It can if you want it to though. I never really attempt anything like that. If you want to disable an arm you do it in a different way. My Wing Chun is not pretty, but it is effective for me. I would also never attempt to do this with a good boxer either. A boxer is actually seriously limited in his attack and defense. It is a sport form of fighting. He has no kick, no chop, and just anything other than a good clean punch is illegal. So they don't train anything outside that. You still would have to get inside his punching range where he is less likely to hit you and grab hold of him to prevent him moving away. You can then apply your Wing Chun bridging techniques for advantage. If he breaks loose, get the heck away and try again. You might get pummeled a bit. I have grabbed an arm and jerked it real hard, pulling the guy off balance so he could not fire on me with his other fist and then strike his controlled arm at certain points to make it less usable. I would never consider just punching it out with someone. It is more likely an even exchange at that point. You could get tagged. I find it less appealing to the eye, but I prefer to get some little bit of control over someone before trying to hit him. I think it just as important to try not getting hit as it is to hit some one. Actually, I think it is more important. You might have a lengthy fight with someone and never hit him once, but if you can claim that he never hit you either you can claim success.

[JPinAZ]

your best bet is centerline attacks...Basically hit him in the face, throat, groin...Those are the best spots to hit...

Going for a little spot on the arm will leave you chasing his hands that are no threat to you...

Interesting to hear you say this now. This sounds like a 180 compared to what you said on the ginger fist thread when you were promoting training this type of pressure point striking using small stickers on a century bob to train striking specific spots on the body. ;)


The Dummy Bags...are good for placing Stickers along the conceptual meridans and other pressure point targets an striking them until you can strike them with your phoenix eye/ginger fist with out looking as you would typing on a keyboard!

[GlennR]

Interesting to hear you now say this now. This sounds like a 180 compared to what you said on the ginger fist thread when you were promoting training this type of pressure point striking small using stickers on a century bob to train striking specific spots on the body. ;)


Yep, he's a special isnt he

[Yoshiyahu]

Depending on muscle density and conditioning...Against a seasoned fighter who has condition certain parts of his body to take a hit I find what you saying highly unlikely...For one if your punching with your fist his points on his arm you may land a lucky shot if he has low muscle density...but if he is conditioned his muslces will tighten around the points...Furthermore in reality striking pressure points in that way with your fist is better for less guarded targets...There are pressure points in the face...Correct? The face you cant really condition...

Pressure points with in grappling are secondary or defensive...basically when you get to grabbing. I press your accupressure points with my fingers or knuckles...I dont actually strike them...An its either to twist or press a nerve which makes you temporarly feel pain. Unless you can break someones arm doubt very seriously striking a part of the arm will result in severe loss of that limb while they have andrenaline pumping...The best place to do some damage would be the funny bone...



MMA and Muay Thai...Actually the muscles are bruised...an the bone is hurt...Basically they can stand because of the intense pain they feel in the bone...Same with a side kick or round house to ribs...break the ribs or bruise the ribs...This is not pressure point striking....


But in either case you will need conditioning and strength to do damage...To train your fingers to strike in such away if you are talking about thrusting bil gee...takes years and dedication...Unless your young when your training it alot of good it will do you...But again...its all good. at best what your doing is accurpressure striking!!! where you grab the limb an press hard or squeeze hard with your fingers the points...Not actual pressure point striking...



You are very uninformed about point striking.

Of course it is easier to hit larger targets such as the head and body. Any idiot with two whits of fighting sense can tell you that.

Arms and Legs can be disabled by hitting certain points. IMO it is more of a "cumulative damage" sort of thing than a guarantee of one shot = dead limb. You see this easily with leg kicks in MMA - you take out the muscle, they can't stand on the leg, their whole fighting ability goes down, this is a form of point striking.

In regards to WC, what points you find valuable and your methods for getting there, that's all lineage specific and not truly worth discussing.

[Yoshiyahu]

Interesting to hear you say this now. This sounds like a 180 compared to what you said on the ginger fist thread when you were promoting training this type of pressure point striking using small stickers on a century bob to train striking specific spots on the body. ;)

The Phoenix Eye is better tool for pressure point striking...But the points im striking aint on the body...There are on the face, head...The neck im using gingerfist...But unlike this post where you get one shot to disable...thats not true...It may take several strikes to do enough damage...I dont think a ginger fist or phoenix eye fist will drop everybody...depends on their andrenaline and conditioning...But if you constantly repeately hit them with the Phoenix eye it can do some damage...The pressure points or accurpressure points are simply weak points on the body that cause the most amount of pain...Similiar to knock out points that if hit with enough force causes the brain to smack the skull causing temporary unconsciousness.


From what their saying its sounds like they are using their fingers to strike like Bil Gee...I would never make my intentional technique to strike your arm with even ginger fist or phoenix...NOPE...I rather pak da or bil da...By the time i cross over to strike punch or bil gee the pressure point in your arm i have given you a flank to pass..an given you a better advantage...This is not what i want to do...Nor do i want my intial attack to be fighting or wrestling with your arms...All grappling comes secondary...



When i speak of Century Bob an placing stickers on it...Notice the stickers will be on the centerline an parts of the face...The Bob doesnt have legs and arms to strike...groin, throat and bridge of nose and nose are points i practice striking with fist, gingerfist and or PE...Also I practice elbow strikes to the head...

[Yoshiyahu]

What is the bridge for? How do you control the bridge, how do you control your opponent?

Kicks and Punches are set up from the bridge...Grappling can be used to assist with a struggling opponent who wishes to grab or escape...

But what is the bridge for...should your first thought be to hit, grapple or retreat?



Once,in the heat of an "interesting" skirmish,I accidentally ( my intended target was something else) punched a boxer in the inside of his upper arm,between the bicep and tricep muscles,this rendered his arm useless for quite a few days and opened my eyes to the concept of "defanging the snake" and as a result I changed my training somewhat to be able to skillfully try the same stunt again if such an occasion to use it would arise.

[Eric_H]

I didn't talk about striking points on the arm, you did.

Pressure points are typically created by gaps in muscle coverage, nerve centers, and glandular centers. They are all over the body... you can find out more with a 99 cent karate poster. (Gene, any tiger claw link on this one?)

I don't really care how you *think* they use pressure points in grappling, I don't train wrestling systems anymore and your statements suggest your experience is limited in that arena.

If you think leg kicks just indiscriminately kick at anything without a preference for where you are most likely to cause a "dead leg," go to a decent thai gym for 2 months. I guarantee your opinion will not be the same.

Meridian based dim mak striking is not the same as using "pressure points." Clean up your language for better responses.





Depending on muscle density and conditioning...Against a seasoned fighter who has condition certain parts of his body to take a hit I find what you saying highly unlikely...For one if your punching with your fist his points on his arm you may land a lucky shot if he has low muscle density...but if he is conditioned his muslces will tighten around the points...Furthermore in reality striking pressure points in that way with your fist is better for less guarded targets...There are pressure points in the face...Correct? The face you cant really condition...

Pressure points with in grappling are secondary or defensive...basically when you get to grabbing. I press your accupressure points with my fingers or knuckles...I dont actually strike them...An its either to twist or press a nerve which makes you temporarly feel pain. Unless you can break someones arm doubt very seriously striking a part of the arm will result in severe loss of that limb while they have andrenaline pumping...The best place to do some damage would be the funny bone...



MMA and Muay Thai...Actually the muscles are bruised...an the bone is hurt...Basically they can stand because of the intense pain they feel in the bone...Same with a side kick or round house to ribs...break the ribs or bruise the ribs...This is not pressure point striking....


But in either case you will need conditioning and strength to do damage...To train your fingers to strike in such away if you are talking about thrusting bil gee...takes years and dedication...Unless your young when your training it alot of good it will do you...But again...its all good. at best what your doing is accurpressure striking!!! where you grab the limb an press hard or squeeze hard with your fingers the points...Not actual pressure point striking...

[trubblman]

What are some techniques/strategies you use in wing chun to attack Nerve centers such as ulnar nerve/artery, median nerves, brachial artery, axillary artery on the opponent's bridge, when he attacks (Breaking Bridge)?

You might wanna check out some of Dan Inosanto's videos. He shows how pay attention please to 0.46 seconds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnVhEQ9hJJk

and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5HmdYkLdAE

Not Wing chun per se and for that I apologize but he does use the techniques in his JKD so I imagine its probably relevant to Wing Chun

[FongSung]

Really? Punch the inside of his arm? What was he doing a wild hook....I like to get you in the boxing ring to see that in action!!!

A good boxers punches will be fast, snappy and tight...Even the hooks and uppercuts will be tight and close. Not wild and wide looking... also when he throws the hooks its going to be either when he has you back up or when your covered up an just open up. If you gaurd high it will be shot to ribs. if you guard low a shot to the jaw.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUuth88nufY

For Yoshi: Boxing Dirty Trick's

[Yoshiyahu]

Well since you stated "cumlative damage"

I agree with you...im sorry for the misunderstanding...i stand corrected!




You are very uninformed about point striking.

Of course it is easier to hit larger targets such as the head and body. Any idiot with two whits of fighting sense can tell you that.

Arms and Legs can be disabled by hitting certain points. IMO it is more of a "cumulative damage" sort of thing than a guarantee of one shot = dead limb. You see this easily with leg kicks in MMA - you take out the muscle, they can't stand on the leg, their whole fighting ability goes down, this is a form of point striking.

In regards to WC, what points you find valuable and your methods for getting there, that's all lineage specific and not truly worth discussing.

[Yoshiyahu]

nice post...thanks for the video...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUuth88nufY

For Yoshi: Boxing Dirty Trick's