pudao

[Radplaiddude]

Can anyone recommend a strong steel pudao. I believe this is the same as the horse cutting sword. Alot I see advertised are the wushu quality. We have one at my school that is around 65 inches total with a 21 inch blade but the blade is real springy..

[Bacon]

Are you looking for a live blade or a dull training tool?

[Radplaiddude]

Are you looking for a live blade or a dull training tool?

Dull for trng

[Bacon]

Find a local steel worker who does custom jobs and get him to fabricate one to your desired size/weight. Then just pin it yourself or have him pin it onto a staff of your choice.

[Lucas]

hanwei forge does a pudao

[GeneChing]

Pudao usually have shorter blades, akin to what you are describing is at your school, Radplaiddude. Horse-cutting, aka madao, sometimes have a longer blade, closer to the length of a dao. That is a soft distinction, however, as some schools use the terms indiscriminately. Also worthy of note, there is a more esoteric pole arm called a horse cutter - see our Horse chopper (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-80.html). I've never seen a form with this particular weapon. I'm sure this is not what you are looking for.

We carry two pudao, one for wushu (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-82wu.html) and one from Dragon Well (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-83wu.html). The wushu version is very popular. The Dragon Well is currently out of stock, and frankly, I don't know when it will come back into stock, if ever. It wasn't very popular and Dragon Well raised its prices and lowered its quality recently, so we might no longer carry some of their items anymore. :o

[GLW]

You also list :

http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-82wuc.html

The two piece idea for travel and such is kind of nice. It really doesn't affect the usability of the weapon as long as you are not expecting to do duei lin or rough stuff with it.

However, one thing that would make this even better - you have a 65" reported length. That is 5' 5" long. I am 6'1" and prefer a weapon a bit longer. Having an extender would be easy, and inexpensive. Basically, you could sell the extension as an extra. It would have the screw on pieces that the other two pieces have and you would screw the extender to the bottom piece and then connect the top piece to the extender. This piece could be between 12" and 18" long. It would open up your LONG weapons to those of us who would like a LONG weapon.

[GeneChing]

I totally forgot about that one. It's new this year.

And you are spot on about an extension piece, however I doubt that it's something that we would have manufactured. Frankly, I'm not sure the sales of such an item would warrant production (ordinarily, you'd think it would, but this is Chinese manufacturing, so we'd probably get way overcharged to something like that). That being said, it's a standard pipe size and thread, so I imagine it wouldn't be too hard for someone to make one on their own.

[GLW]

What WOULD work would be if it turns out that you guys have more two piece long weapons...you could then have a standard size for all of them...and the piece would then be usable for things like the Madao, Tiger Fork, Monk Spade, etc....

Just an idea. I can recall when it was impossible to get a Jian or Dao of any type that was long enough for me. And it was worse for pants....going from L to XL to XXL they really didn't (an often still don't) get longer....they just get bigger around. So, you get where you have to ask "Does XL mean TALLER or FATTER?"

[GeneChing]

...it's a great idea, just not financially viable at this time. The market for such items is pretty small unfortunately. Right now, we don't carry that many two-piece pole arms. The pudao (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-82wuc.html) we are discussing is actually an experimental product and it's way too early to know if it's even viable as is. We'll just have to see how it all goes.

Right now, there's a trend towards metal-shafted weapons because there is a looming white waxwood shortage. Weapon makers are trying to get us to move towards metal shafts because they are easier for them to manufacture. We've been sent all sorts of samples. When there's a good one, I always try to get it. These are the perks of my job. :cool: I have a metal-shafted Kwan Dao (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-88.html) and Monk Spade (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-84wu.html) (not the ones shown obviously; I just do that to plug product out of reflex). The spade is one-piece. The Kwan Dao is two-piece but an entirely different gauge than these pudao (different maker). It would be totally cool if they fit. If I could have one pole shaft and a selection of different screw-on blade heads, that would be the bomb. Actually, I don't play that many long weapons anymore, but it would still be kind of cool.

Sizing is a huge issue and I feel for you. I can't begin to tell you the issues we have with shoe sizes. Our makers are in Asia and they don't have a lot of larger people to make patterns, so indeed, the taller/fatter issue you've encountered doesn't surprise me at all.

I wish we could be more accommodating more quickly, but we're bound to follow the market and the market just doesn't support this quite yet. Baby steps.

[Syn7]

What are those things that look like a Chinese broadsword with a really long handle? Is that a Madao?

[Shadow_Trickery]

Personally I only train with Pudaos with live blades. I see no point in practicing without a semblance of real application, in fact I find it pathetic.

[Syn7]

Are you saying you think it's pathetic to train with a dull weapon?

[pazman]

train with Pudaos


real application

Pick one, Star Wars Kid.

[bawang]

What are those things that look like a Chinese broadsword with a really long handle? Is that a Madao?

thats called a pudao

[PalmStriker]

Personally I only train with Pudaos with live blades. I see no point in practicing without a semblance of real application, in fact I find it pathetic.
Pathetic? You must be fresh off the battlefield. :D

[Bacon]

I'd say after a certain skill level you should train with a live blade to really learn the healthy level of respect you need for that sharp edge. Until you have that skill level though keep with the dull blades or you're liable to end up with a pretty serious scar.

[pazman]

When we say training, are we talking about test cutting and technique practice, or spinning a pudao around, doing taolu? Unless your teacher trains for test cutting, you have no business being around a live blade like that.

Live blades should not be used for performance.

I would be very surprised if any gongfu school had actual training in Pudao, as most gongfu schools don't have any business teaching real weapon skills in the first place.

[Bacon]

When I say training I mean practicing movements/forms. If after years of training with a dull blade you don't do it with a live one, starting very, very carefully, I don't think you really respect the weapon in your hands.

[pazman]

If you are practicing taolu with a pudao, you are performing and you are dancing.


I've seen lots of test cutting and real training in Japanese martial arts and I've seen much less in Chinese arts. I have yet to see any real training with pudao. I would love to see video.

[GeneChing]

It's not something a sane person practices for self-defense. Don't get me wrong. I'm a huge advocate for practicing with live blades and cutting practice, but as an academic pursuit. Before you get all 'won't work on the street/ineffective in the cage' consider the overall relevancy of the pudao today.

[pazman]

It's not something a sane person practices for self-defense. Don't get me wrong. I'm a huge advocate for practicing with live blades and cutting practice, but as an academic pursuit. Before you get all 'won't work on the street/ineffective in the cage' consider the overall relevancy of the pudao today.


Agreed. Sometimes when I see people wanting to play around with a live blade I get kind of squeamish. Life is full of cost-benefit decisions. Twirling around a real pudao while performing a taolu seriously runs the risk of ending up in a hospital visit, but I can't think of any real benefit to it.

If you want to learn to "respect the blade" go to a qualified teacher, not the guy that teaches you lion dance. And definitely not this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJFqveqtJ2M

[GLW]

Ah... I can't tell you how many times I got worried because some bad dudes came to a rumble with their Kwan daos , spears, and monk spades. It just made me shudder until the cops showed up at the mall and arrested all of them after they tased them following a threatening display of weapon twirling....

Want to work with the weight of a real weapon, fine. Want one that feels like a live one in spring and response...totally with you on that one too.

Want a Madao or a Pudao with live steel and a razor edge and I just have to say WTF... Can't demo with it...can't carry it from home to class without breaking the law, can't practice in a class with many people since someone might get in the way and you end up at the ER or funeral home....

I get the idea of live steel for Jian, Dao.... and other things...after all, we DO have to fight zombies for the Walking Dead....but beyond that.... WTF

and I like the idea of switchable ends for the weapons....buying one shaft and connecting just what I need....what a space saver at home.

[Kellen Bassette]

Some years back, a former student of one of my instructors, who had some mental issues...attacked the police with a katana when they showed up at his house...he's dead now....

[GeneChing]

You don't say? We have a whole thread dedicated to that - Bad Day for Samurai Wannabes (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52919) - I just ttt-ed it just now. :cool:

I dabbled in iaido (http://www.martialartsmart.com/dvd-yvs336.html) and batto-jitsu for a spell. I loved it. Occasionally, I still do some cutting practice or work with a live blade, although not so much as I did in my youth. Any forms practitioner should strive for authenticity, so using a live blade is a natural. However, it's something that should be approached very cautiously because a live blade changes everything. One mistake - well, I have some scars that I'll carry to my grave. :o Fortunately, it's just some minor scars, so small that I'd have to point them out. That's the worst of it.

That's the thing that makes forms practice so beautiful. Everyone here is always dissing forms because there are so many weak ones, but the truth of the matter is that you get out of a form what you put into it. Some practitioners are really weak - and there's nothing wrong with that. Heck, my mom does tai chi and it's really weak, but she gets her exercise and has fun, so where's the harm? On the flip side, you can go really deep into forms, especially weapons forms. To do so, you inevitably will work with real weapons with live blades. But I don't hold others to my standards. If someone else wants to practice with dull blades, that's their choice. If my mom ever takes up tai chi jian (unlikely) she'll be using a dull blade, I guarantee you that. For me personally, I like blades, but that's my personal choice. That's mostly why I'm here. Sharps are cool. ;)

[Kellen Bassette]

It's hip to bash forms nowadays and say you only concentrate on partner application...forms are still one of the best training methods out there...so long as you include partner drilling and hard sparring; and understand the difference in form and application.

[GeneChing]

See now again, partner drilling and hard sparring - my mom ain't doing none of that. She's in her 80s. I have no problem with weak forms. They are great for kids and elderly, as well as countless nerdy types. Everyone here raises the bar pretty high (mostly to boast their own feeling of self-worth) but the truth of the matter is that we were all beginners once, so we should cut them a little slack.

The only problem I have is when weak practitioners claim to be strong based on their weak forms. But that's a totally different scenario.

Of course, my mom ain't doing no pudao either. ;)

[Kellen Bassette]

I agree, a lot of people like forms just because they are fun and a good exercise, if that's all you want then that's cool. Fighting ain't for everyone.
If you want to fight then train your forms hard, study them and don't neglect the other things.

[Kellen Bassette]

You know we have to use those qualifiers Gene, because were all so paranoid about being lumped in with those OTHER traditional martial artists...in their Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Power Ranger fantasy world :p

[GeneChing]

... I have qualifiers on that too. ;)

Like it or not, CTHD and Power Rangers have tremendous sway over pop culture. There's always been this weird self-loathing in the martial arts, perhaps because some of our fanboys can be so grossly over the top in their nerdiness, but it actually does us a great disservice. Take professional sport for example. If you go to any NFL game, you'll see hundreds if not thousands of embarrassing examples of humanity, often at their worse. Does the NFL diss them like we do? Heck no. They sell them as much paraphernalia as they can to continue to fund their franchise. In the same vein, I'm more then delighted to sell pudaos to anyone, no matter their skill level. If they want to pose with them, dance with them or just hang them on their walls, I really don't care. If CMA is to grow, we need to expand our economic base, and when selling things like medieval weapons, we really can't afford to be choosey. A few posts back on this thread, GLW had a great suggestion for two-piece pole arms. I honestly wish that it was something I could initiate. It's a really cool idea. But frankly, it isn't financially sound. There's not enough market for ancient Chinese pole arms to support such a venture. But if we could pull in more of those fanboys...;)

I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

[Kellen Bassette]

Guess it's like how some of the early rappers must of felt when MC Hammer hit it big...funny thing is on of the Power Rangers is a pro fighter these days....never thought of it as self loathing, your probably onto something....but I've always been aware of my loathing for the lazy fat kid in the back who never tries but just won't quit, lol

[GeneChing]

We were following the Power Ranger you speak of here - Green Power Ranger to fight MMA (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55113) - although it doesn't look like anyone's bothered to update that for the last two years. I know one Power Ranger stuntperson personally. That would be Tess (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46918). 'nuf said. ;)

Funny you should mention Hammer too. As you might know, I do some work for the music industry, and one of the most hardcore shows I've ever worked was a Hammer show. There was a huge riot, a gang war.

But more to the point, I feel ya on the loathing of that lazy kid. There's one in every group, it seems. The bottom line is martial arts ain't for everyone. However I think it's actually the loathing of those caricature 'masters' - the poseurs - that offends us most. It's all relative though. You know, given my position, I get the privilege of meeting many of the world's best masters. And I also still have my classmates, who are always trying to impress just like any classmate might. They'll show off some newly acquired technique and I have to just grin. Sure, they usually have a decent piece of it, but like I said, it's all relative.

[GeneChing]

What WOULD work would be if it turns out that you guys have more two piece long weapons...you could then have a standard size for all of them...and the piece would then be usable for things like the Madao, Tiger Fork, Monk Spade, etc....

Just an idea. So we just got this new product in - a 2 Piece Stainless Steel Dragon Head Kwandao (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-88ss.html). It has the same 2 Piece screw-in assembly as the 2 Piece Pudao (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-82wuc.html). Do the threads match? I'm afraid I can't tell you. Unfortunately, we're out of stock of the 2 Piece Pudao. It looks like it's from the same maker, but I can't be sure. Even if it was, the threading still might not match. :o

[GeneChing]

We found a 2 Piece Pudao example. The shaft diameter does not match the new Kwan Dao. They come from two completely different makers. :rolleyes:

[bawang]

do you guys laquer the handles? or make composite handles? or just wood?

[GeneChing]

These have metal shafts.

[Djuan]

another great video from CGTN series on the Shaolin Pudao


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLTY1n_41o0

[GeneChing]

I see that CGTN has produced a whole series of video shorts on Kung Fu recently for their YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/CCTVNEWSbeijing/featured). They've been filling up my newsfeeds and I've been thinking about posting them on appropriate threads here as more grist for the mill. Thanks for taking care of this for me, Djuan. Good looking out. :cool:

[Djuan]

I see that CGTN has produced a whole series of video shorts on Kung Fu recently for their YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/CCTVNEWSbeijing/featured). They've been filling up my newsfeeds and I've been thinking about posting them on appropriate threads here as more grist for the mill. Thanks for taking care of this for me, Djuan. Good looking out. :cool:

all good! there are a couple more I wanted to share and didn't find threads for! so I'm gonna find a thread general enough and put em there! some really good perspectives!