All you need is one simple technique

[YouKnowWho]

Your thought?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AECoDkujNP0&feature=share&list=PL0176816DF48B3424

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuvtwytNJqw

[-N-]

One really good technique can get you by.

But the time you run across the person that has mastered how to shut down that technique, you will be in trouble.

Best to have a few in which you are expert.

Then you can use strategy in addition to technique.

The girl in the video won not so much because of her one technique. More so that she was more aggressive.

[-N-]

Brendan Lai sometimes would say, "Technique can be matched against technique, but nothing can match speed."

One way of thinking of this is not in absolute speed, but in being faster than the opponent can adapt.

Strategy is part of this.

[bawang]

one of my students in Wombat Combat™

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBTPjhImt2A

[Syn7]

I think training a small set of high percentage techniques is most likely the best way to learn self defence quickly. That being said, if you want to step it up beyond simple street defence you need to diversify. If you know a smaller set of techniques, the odds are that it will be enough. But for those who want more security, it takes more.

Sports are a bit different. But when you get higher up, you really need to put more into your bag. There are very few one trick ponies that last a long time on top.

[Kellen Bassette]

one of my students in Wombat Combat™

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBTPjhImt2A

I see you finally trademarked your style, Leung Ting would be proud.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Its' not really about how many techniques you know, though having more than 1 is a good idea.
It is about how much you have exposed your techniques to.
If you have mastered 8 techniques and have exposed them to all manner of situations and environments vs the bets trained you can find, then you will be able to pull those techniques off against pretty much anything anyone can throw at you.

[ginosifu]

Its' not really about how many techniques you know, though having more than 1 is a good idea.
It is about how much you have exposed your techniques to.
If you have mastered 8 techniques and have exposed them to all manner of situations and environments vs the bets trained you can find, then you will be able to pull those techniques off against pretty much anything anyone can throw at you.

I like this concept ! 8 techniques is plenty enough put up against all plethera of situations.

ginosifu

[Bacon]

I like this concept ! 8 techniques is plenty enough put up against all plethera of situations.

ginosifu

Okay. We'll spar. You only get 8 techniques. I get unlimited and when I find those openings your 8 techniques don't defend against I get to hit you as much as I want :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think you both kind of missed the point, LMAO !

[Syn7]

Define "a technique"?

[YouKnowWho]

Define "a technique"?
To me, a technique is a tool in your toolbox such as roundhouse kick, upper cut, elbow lock, hip throw, ... I like to call it "finish move - something that you can use it to finish a fight".

If you can master 8 good techniques such as:

- jab,
- cross,
- hook,
- upper cut,
- front kick,
- side kick,
- round house kick,
- flying knee,

You are a very good striker.

A simple technique is only the starting point. It's the root of a tree. There are many branches that can grow out of that tree. In order to master a single technique, you have to master a set of techinques.

[Syn7]

Cool. Just wanted to make sure we are on the same page. In the past I have heard different definitions.

What about defence?

[YouKnowWho]

What about defence?

I don't play defence so I'll let others to define that term. Defence is bad. Just look at US and Iraq war.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I've bounced with boxers that have handled themselves against pretty much anything and they now 4 techniques.
It have never been a case of WHAT you know as much as the case of HOW WELL you can apply it.
Look at MMA, where you get the broadest examples of technqiues ( since it covers striking and grappling) and you can count the principle techniques used on both hands.
Looking at fight finishers:
Strikes: hooks, overhands, elbows, knees and round house are the majority
throws: hip, slams and trips/sweeps
Subs: RNC, arm bar, leg lock

The vast majority of fights end with some of the above.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Cool. Just wanted to make sure we are on the same page. In the past I have heard different definitions.

What about defence?

Defense?
That's for prom queens on prom night, LOL !

[YouKnowWho]

You can

- write a book about 200 techniques (only pictures are needed).
- publish a DVD for 100 techniques (you can repeat filming until you are satisfy).
- give a workshop about 50 techniques (you can do in slow speed).
- demo in public about 25 tecniques (your demo partner will give you opportunity).
- fight in street about 10 techniques (you are dealing with non-compliant opponent).

[madhusudan]

Cloud hands vs. anything.

[SPJ]

You can

- write a book about 200 techniques (only pictures are needed).
- publish a DVD for 100 techniques (you can repeat filming until you are satisfy).
- give a workshop about 50 techniques (you can do in slow speed).
- demo in public about 25 tecniques (your demo partner will give you opportunity).
- fight in street about 10 techniques (you are dealing with non-compliant opponent).

1. this is the ultimate Q since the very beginning.

Yes. We may win with only one technique.

However, what if the opponent counters

2. Well I have to have a least 3 techniques.

We may vary or change among the 3.

Why ?

2 techniques can be predicted.

3 variables give you more variation or change.

:)

[Syn7]

I've bounced with boxers that have handled themselves against pretty much anything and they now 4 techniques.
It have never been a case of WHAT you know as much as the case of HOW WELL you can apply it.
Look at MMA, where you get the broadest examples of technqiues ( since it covers striking and grappling) and you can count the principle techniques used on both hands.
Looking at fight finishers:
Strikes: hooks, overhands, elbows, knees and round house are the majority
throws: hip, slams and trips/sweeps
Subs: RNC, arm bar, leg lock

The vast majority of fights end with some of the above.

I totally agree. But I consider tucking my chin as a technique. No? Checking kicks, Stuffing takedowns etc etc...

[Syn7]

1. this is the ultimate Q since the very beginning.

Yes. We may win with only one technique.

However, what if the opponent counters

2. Well I have to have a least 3 techniques.

We may vary or change among the 3.

Why ?

2 techniques can be predicted.

3 variables give you more variation or change.

:)

That's kind of the point tho. Even if they know what is coming and know how to defend it, if you drill hard and are better at it than they are, you will find a home for that strike.

[Kellen Bassette]

I totally agree. But I consider tucking my chin as a technique. No? Checking kicks, Stuffing takedowns etc etc...

Without these techniques, all your offensive stuff can quickly become useless...

[Syn7]

Without these techniques, all your offensive stuff can quickly become useless...

Word. That was my point.

A boxer may have 4 offensive techniques that he is very good at, but if he can't stop you from hitting a hard double, WTF is gonna do? Punch the bottom of your feet as you stomp his ass or tear his arm apart???

[sanjuro_ronin]

I totally agree. But I consider tucking my chin as a technique. No? Checking kicks, Stuffing takedowns etc etc...

Sure and you can go on and one and on and from 4 you can get 104 but that's not really the issue is it?
The issue is that you do NOT need a huge catalog of techniques to be an effective fighter or even a great MA.
The reason (some) systems do have MANY is that they take into account different body types, genders and mental attitudes and as such have a wider repertoire of techniques from which different types can draw upon.

[Kellen Bassette]

Sure and you can go on and one and on and from 4 you can get 104 but that's not really the issue is it?
The issue is that you do NOT need a huge catalog of techniques to be an effective fighter or even a great MA.
The reason (some) systems do have MANY is that they take into account different body types, genders and mental attitudes and as such have a wider repertoire of techniques from which different types can draw upon.

And it keeps people interested, some people get bored always working the same material...if your bored it will be a lot harder to get motivated to go to the gym...helps ti keep things fresh.

[bawang]

And it keeps people interested, some people get bored always working the same material...if your bored it will be a lot harder to get motivated to go to the gym...helps ti keep things fresh.

that is the problem when you try to make money from martial arts.

the goal of good martial arts instruction is to make a good fighter as fast as possible , then send him on his way.

the goal of good business is maximize customer retention.


only way for your student to stay, yet go through monotonous real training, is for him to stay through the bonds of friendship and loyalty, not cult conditioning, money investment psychology, carrot on a stick ranking, or form collecting.

when your student stays because he is your brother, not because he wants something from you, then you dont have to worry about content or material.

[-N-]

that is the problem when you try to make money from martial arts.

the goal of good martial arts instruction is to make a good fighter as fast as possible , then send him on his way.

the goal of good business is maximize customer retention.


only way for your student to stay, yet go through monotonous real training, is for him to stay through the bonds of friendship and loyalty, not cult conditioning, money investment psychology, carrot on a stick ranking, or form collecting.

when your student stays because he is your brother, not because he wants something from you, then you dont have to worry about content or material.

+1

The goal isn't to keep your student from getting bored.

If I need to entertain them, they might as well leave.

[Kellen Bassette]

that is the problem when you try to make money from martial arts.

the goal of good martial arts instruction is to make a good fighter as fast as possible , then send him on his way.

the goal of good business is maximize customer retention.


only way for your student to stay, yet go through monotonous real training, is for him to stay through the bonds of friendship and loyalty, not cult conditioning, money investment psychology, carrot on a stick ranking, or form collecting.

when your student stays because he is your brother, not because he wants something from you, then you dont have to worry about content or material.

Well that's one of the problems with teaching for money...amongst many others...I agree you should be trying to make them competent fighters as quickly as possible...I don't like ranking systems or form collecting...however, what draws me to the CMAs is their depth and complexity.

Some peoples personalities want to keep mastering new techniques and adding them to their repertoire, others are perfectly happy with a few high percentage techniques, I don't think one way is right or wrong, but keeping it fun for yourself is important so you keep dragging yourself back into the gym.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The catalog of techniques I know is quite astounding.
In the 30+ years of MA training and in the various systems I have learned, it would exceed the 100's quite easily.
I use such a small percentage of them it isn't even funny.

[Kellen Bassette]

The catalog of techniques I know is quite astounding.
In the 30+ years of MA training and in the various systems I have learned, it would exceed the 100's quite easily.
I use such a small percentage of them it isn't even funny.

I think the constant adding of techniques is a cyclical thing, just my theory...like an arms race, you try to get one up on your opponents by having a bigger arsenal until it gets to the point you can't possibly master and utilize so many techniques, then people strip down and simplify, using the streamlined and efficent against the complex...I imagine this cycle has happened many times over the centuries...

Think about fighting...why not just use boxing? Well if you face a good kicker he can keep a boxer out of his range. So let's kick box. But if you face a wrestler and he takes you down, what then? Let's add wrestling, but now we go to the ground against a submission grappler, we need an answer for that...we've got the choice of working on a broad variety of techniques, or going back to boxing, as in the beginning of the story, and just get so good at it that we can't be kicked, taken down or submitted.

[David Jamieson]

Cloud hands vs. anything.

will not work on straight up boxer.
try and see for yourself.

[David Jamieson]

I think the constant adding of techniques is a cyclical thing, just my theory...like an arms race, you try to get one up on your opponents by having a bigger arsenal until it gets to the point you can't possibly master and utilize so many techniques, then people strip down and simplify, using the streamlined and efficent against the complex...I imagine this cycle has happened many times over the centuries...

Think about fighting...why not just use boxing? Well if you face a good kicker he can keep a boxer out of his range. So let's kick box. But if you face a wrestler and he takes you down, what then? Let's add wrestling, but now we go to the ground against a submission grappler, we need an answer for that...we've got the choice of working on a broad variety of techniques, or going back to boxing, as in the beginning of the story, and just get so good at it that we can't be kicked, taken down or submitted.

Empty hand fighting is ineffective when it gets down to it. Unless you are doing sport or have horrid manners and get into bar fights...:)

One technique? Squeeze, don't pull.

Don't get me wrong, I cultivate my Kung Fu and remain aware when in urban areas, crowds etc, but this kind of thing can be totally solved by simply using a weapon. I ain't gonna kid myself about my capabilities when they are relative like anyone else's.

[PalmStriker]

I like this concept ! 8 techniques is plenty enough put up against all plethera of situations.

ginosifu Agree. If more than that is needed in real combat, pull out your external weapons or pick up something on the sidelines.

[YouKnowWho]

what if the opponent counters?

If you can't counter your opponent's counter, you are still not good at that technique. If your technique has 20 different ways to counters, you should be more familiar with those counters than your opponent does. You should also master all the counters against those counters.

For example, my teacher's brother was a left hand person. On the wrestling mat, he always moved in with his left side forward. When his left hand sorrounded your waist, his left leg sticked on your right leg, his right hand grabbed your left arm, he would just wait for you to make a move. If you tried to move in front of him, he would use embrace to pick you up. If you tried to move behind of him, he would use hip throw. He was very good in both techniques along with all the relative techniques such as 蹩撩扣轟裏擓, ....

So to master a simple technique is just the starting point but not the ending point. If you just want to deal with average Joe, that may be enough. If you want to be champ o the mat, you have to know more.

[bawang]

Agree. If more than that is needed in real combat, pull out your external weapons or pick up something on the sidelines.

can i use institutionalized racism as external weapons against the deadly chocolate peoples

[YouKnowWho]

+1

The goal isn't to keep your student from getting bored.

If I need to entertain them, they might as well leave.

My students have to bring a notebook and stop every 10 minutes to write down something. If they are busy to record information that they believe it's worthwhile to write down, they will never get bored.

[David Jamieson]

can i use institutionalized racism as external weapons against the deadly chocolate peoples

Isn't there already enough of that in the world?

[Syn7]

Sure and you can go on and one and on and from 4 you can get 104 but that's not really the issue is it?
The issue is that you do NOT need a huge catalog of techniques to be an effective fighter or even a great MA.
The reason (some) systems do have MANY is that they take into account different body types, genders and mental attitudes and as such have a wider repertoire of techniques from which different types can draw upon.

I thought we already had consensus on that one. If I wasn't clear before, I agree. A small set of techniques can be very effective.

[Syn7]

The catalog of techniques I know is quite astounding.
In the 30+ years of MA training and in the various systems I have learned, it would exceed the 100's quite easily.
I use such a small percentage of them it isn't even funny.

Yeah, most of my fights came down to simple strikes. When grappling it gets a bit more involved but still the basics are a small set. I would rather drill my timing all day than to learn 4000 techniques.

[ginosifu]

The catalog of techniques I know is quite astounding.
In the 30+ years of MA training and in the various systems I have learned, it would exceed the 100's quite easily.
I use such a small percentage of them it isn't even funny.


I thought we already had consensus on that one. If I wasn't clear before, I agree. A small set of techniques can be very effective.


I like this concept ! 8 techniques is plenty enough put up against all plethera of situations.

The only people who need more than a few techniques are MA teachers or Sifu. If you have many students they all may differ in approach and flavor, so naturally MA teachers have 100's of techniques to offer to many varied student.

The reason I like 8 techniques is that 8 is a small enough number of techniques to get you by for most all situations. This example is grossly perfect but serves to make a point:

2 Striking methods
2 Kicking methods
2 Grappling methods
2 Throwing methods

Each method should have 8 different variations of each. There are a total of 8 methods X 8 variations each = 64 variations to use in any fighting situation. This is plenty, might even be a bit much however, the point is that you should take a few good techniques you like to work and try them in various sitations.

ginosifu

[Kellen Bassette]

Empty hand fighting is ineffective when it gets down to it. Unless you are doing sport or have horrid manners and get into bar fights...:)

One technique? Squeeze, don't pull.

Don't get me wrong, I cultivate my Kung Fu and remain aware when in urban areas, crowds etc, but this kind of thing can be totally solved by simply using a weapon. I ain't gonna kid myself about my capabilities when they are relative like anyone else's.

Well that's the reality...MAs serve a purpose for self defense, but is it really worth it to train 30 years for a fight that may never happen? It's pretty easy to carry a gun in the truck...and there's the very real risk of retaliation from friends/family/gang members of whomever you whooped up on in the street...

However...even during the hey day of TCMAs empty hand fighting wasn't practical for battle. Wars have been fought with weapons since the day someone picked up a club.

The flip side is Chinese generals believed the empty hand fighting made them better soldiers. Harder men I suppose. When the Mongols were conquering the world wrestling was still one of the 3 manly arts they were expected to practice....they weren't winning wars with wrestling, the horseback riding and archery was far more practical...

Maybe that's what it all comes down to...the manly arts...it is undeniably cooler to be an awesome fighter than to carry a knife.

[PalmStriker]

can i use institutionalized racism as external weapons against the deadly chocolate peoples Yes. Racial slurs may help stir your opponents anger leaving him open to attack recklessly. :D

[Syn7]

The only people who need more than a few techniques are MA teachers or Sifu. If you have many students they all may differ in approach and flavor, so naturally MA teachers have 100's of techniques to offer to many varied student.

The reason I like 8 techniques is that 8 is a small enough number of techniques to get you by for most all situations. This example is grossly perfect but serves to make a point:

2 Striking methods
2 Kicking methods
2 Grappling methods
2 Throwing methods

Each method should have 8 different variations of each. There are a total of 8 methods X 8 variations each = 64 variations to use in any fighting situation. This is plenty, might even be a bit much however, the point is that you should take a few good techniques you like to work and try them in various sitations.

ginosifu

Does that have anything to do with the whole Chinese fascination with 8's? I heard a phone number full of 8's sold for a ton of cash in ChengDu.

Why not 7 or 9?

Just curious. Otherwise I like the post.

[Syn7]

Yes. Racial slurs may help stir your opponents anger leaving him open to attack recklessly. :D

I do that all the time. Not racial slurs, but throw people off their game by getting them all emotional. Whether it's a fist fight or a debate. It works very well.

[ginosifu]

The only people who need more than a few techniques are MA teachers or Sifu. If you have many students they all may differ in approach and flavor, so naturally MA teachers have 100's of techniques to offer to many varied student.

The reason I like 8 techniques is that 8 is a small enough number of techniques to get you by for most all situations. This example is grossly perfect but serves to make a point:

2 Striking methods
2 Kicking methods
2 Grappling methods
2 Throwing methods

Each method should have 8 different variations of each. There are a total of 8 methods X 8 variations each = 64 variations to use in any fighting situation. This is plenty, might even be a bit much however, the point is that you should take a few good techniques you like to work and try them in various sitations.


Does that have anything to do with the whole Chinese fascination with 8's? I heard a phone number full of 8's sold for a ton of cash in ChengDu.

Why not 7 or 9?

Just curious. Otherwise I like the post.

Yes, the Chinese "I-Ching" follows the number 8. 8 is a decent number of techniques but, if you 6 or 9 I don't it would matter. Just have a small number of moves and some variations.

ginosifu

[Neeros]

My Sitaigung Lai Chin Wah was a peacekeeper in malaysia, he would use the technique Black Tiger Steals Heart to end the majority of the conflicts he would resolve.

Single Tiger Emerges from cave to open or close the guard, then Black Tiger to finish the opponent in one or more continuous strikes.

It is the first technique we learn in our school and my favorite technique as well. :)

[pateticorecords]

Perfecting a handful of techniques as your primary ones is invaluable however, what I have noticed is that the fighters become predictable. A good fighter will fall for the same sequence of movements once or maybe twice, adjusting to what he experienced.

A fighter with a larger arsenal of techniques, combat movements and concepts will be able to counter the technique the second time their opponent tries to execute it and use it to their advantage. Of course their are exceptions to any rule.

Another factor that is beneficial about a larger arsenal of techniques is that even though you might not use or practice certain ones all the time... when the time comes to recall the movement based on the situation your body and mind will react accordingly.

It makes the fighter unpredictable and being unpredictable gives them the upper hand.:)

[Robinhood]

Your thought?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AECoDkujNP0&feature=share&list=PL0176816DF48B3424

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuvtwytNJqw


Martial Arts are More for self development,. If you want to just hurt people , get a weapon or a taser gun, if your so worried about being attacked.

[YouKnowWho]

Martial Arts are More for self development,

If you train

- combat and you say that you train health, you are humble.
- health and you say that you train combat, you are cheating.

[YouKnowWho]

Perfecting a handful of techniques as your primary ones is invaluable however, what I have noticed is that the fighters become predictable.

That's why we should not tell others what our "door guarding techniques" are. Sometime we try not to use it too often. If we just want to be a little bit better than our opponent, we can "hide" ourselves very well.

[pateticorecords]

If you train

- combat and you say that you train health, you are humble.
- health and you say that you train combat, you are cheating.


hahahaha... so true!