Training With an Injury.

[Kellen Bassette]

A little over a month ago I jacked my lower back up pretty good; I've been on light duty with my training ever since. Prior to the injury I had been doing some pretty hard sessions.

Anyways, I got to Thailand this week and have had some serious training planned for this trip for quite some time. Was intending to do 6 days a week, 4 hours or so a day for the next couple months. The plan was to run in the morning, stretches, light workout, solo KF drills and forms; then training at a Muay Thai camp in the evening.

About 2 weeks ago I could barely stand up straight; my back has improved since; but I'm nowhere near finished healing. I saw the doctor yesterday; he says it's muscles, not my spine and I guess I got the ok to train. He just said no sit ups for a month; but I stopped them a month ago when I got hurt.

I seem to be alright with most punches, front kicks, roundhouses, side kicks...but if I do the snap kick, slap foot thing that we always do in Shaolin forms, it kills me. Crescent kicks, spinning kicks, jumps hurt pretty bad too. I'm afraid I may have to forgo the form training so i don't get into bad habits from compensating for my back.

I have no idea how I'm going to respond to bag/pad/clinch work; I haven't done any since I got hurt. I know the smart thing to do is keep resting until I'm better; but I've been so stoked for this trip for a while; I know I'm going to train until I can't. :(

Anyways, I'm sure some of you guys have dealt with this problem. Any suggestions for working around the injury; or minimizing damage? My current plan is to just strap on a back brace, pop some pain killers and hope I'm not crying when they where off.

Thanks.

[bawang]

how did u hurt ur back man? did u feel numbness or tingling? i hurt my spine in august

[Kellen Bassette]

how did u hurt ur back man? did u feel numbness or tingling? i hurt my spine in august

I don't know exactly how I did it, it was either at work or in training. I do manual labor and had to move some stones that were probably pushing 200 pounds, I only weigh 145..stones aren't like moving weights because they are so awkward and unwieldy...I think I may have twisted wrong.

I never actually felt it when I did it though; my back started waking me up several times a night from pain and got progressively worse. Another possibility; at the same time, I was drilling the Cannon form pretty hard for a couple hours one night; the move where you do the triple arm swing into the sky cannon may have tore a muscle. A week later when I worked that form i couldn't do that move because it really tweaked my back.

[Kellen Bassette]

I was hoping it would be healed by now, at the same time last year I tore a muscle in my upper back, being stupid and trying to do one arm pullups. It acted the exact same way, being worse at night, waking me up and forcing me to stretch several times every night. It lasted just over a month, then healed.

This is the lower back, but has been very similar to what I did last year; and it's been a bit over a month now; I was expecting it to be better.

I never had back problems like this before, I must be getting older. :(

[bawang]

but did u feel numbness or tingling?

[Kellen Bassette]

No I didn't..but mine was muscle, not spine...may be the difference.

[bawang]

then i dont know why its taking you so long to heal man. can you do lat pulldowns at the gym?

[Kellen Bassette]

I haven't tried, I really don't do much at all for weights except dumbbells...I can pretty much do anything I usually, do but stuff that involves twisting or big circular movements hurts me.

Everything I read suggests I should heal in about 2 weeks, but this has taken much longer...

[bawang]

dam man. you never lift weights then tried to lift 200 pounds???

have u seen a chiro? or just family doctor?

[Kellen Bassette]

I've done manual labor for a lot of years, I'm always lifting heavy stuff at work. I carry blocks weighing between 40 and 60 pounds, one in each hand all day and toss them on scaffolds..throw 80 pound bags of mortar all day..help set steel lintels...carry 16 foot OSHA planks ect...

I've never done much weight lifting for strength training, mostly because I get so much at my job...weights would mainly be for definition...I just have some dumbbells at the house I was doing every couple days...

The issue with all the heavy work I do at my job is, it's not like weight lifting because it's not in a controlled environment. I'm not on a bench with a spotter lifting a perfectly balanced weight that was designed specifically for that purpose.

I'm carrying crap over rocks, mud, ice and snow...it's just so easy to slip and get hurt or lift something wrong..it happens to everyone in my line of work.

[Kellen Bassette]

The doctor was at a clinic here in Thailand..I waited until I came here because I don't have insurance...he was the most recommended guy in town, FWIW.

[bawang]

man, you dont hurt muscle from lifting with bad posture, you hurt muscle by lifting veyr heavy. you hurt spine by lifting with bad posture. and you said its lower back which pretty much confirms it.

also that doctor seems to be lying to you. because you dont do situps when you hurt your spine, and he told you not to do situps.

you really need to take it easy. i got a feeling you gonna pop some sh1t up.

[Kellen Bassette]

man, you dont hurt muscle from lifting with bad posture, you hurt muscle by lifting veyr heavy. you hurt spine by lifting with bad posture. and you said its lower back which pretty much confirms it.

also that doctor seems to be lying to you. because you dont do situps when you hurt your spine, and he told you not to do situps.

you really need to take it easy. i got a feeling you gonna pop some sh1t up.

I'm a little concerned with the Doc, he didn't even X-ray me, just asked questions...It's real discouraging because I was really trying to push my MAs training, then the down time, now still not healed for my trip...I guess I'll play it by ear...I know it's stupid to push it....

[JamesC]

I tore a muscle in my back months ago and it just recently healed completely. Wasn't that heavy of weight and I had done it lots of times before. Injury is just a byproduct of liftin heavy **** lol.

Only thin that worked for me was light stretching and slowly restrengthening it. Baby steps.

[IronFist]

man, you dont hurt muscle from lifting with bad posture,

That's not true. I've pulled my lower back doing nothing, so the weight being too heavy was not the issue.

Really.

I was sitting in my desk chair one day, twisted to the left to grab something that was behind me, and pulled my lower back. It was sore for a week, the kind where you can't bend forward or really do anything and when you wake up in the morning it takes 5 minutes to be able to sit up and get out of bed.


you hurt muscle by lifting veyr heavy. you hurt spine by lifting with bad posture. and you said its lower back which pretty much confirms it.

Nah, bad form/improper leverage can hurt your muscles. See above.


also that doctor seems to be lying to you. because you dont do situps when you hurt your spine, and he told you not to do situps.


If your lower back is pulled, doing situps will elongate the muscles which can cause pain. The doctor's advice makes sense.

[wenshu]

I never actually felt it when I did it though; my back started waking me up several times a night from pain and got progressively worse. Another possibility; at the same time, I was drilling the Cannon form pretty hard for a couple hours one night; the move where you do the triple arm swing into the sky cannon may have tore a muscle. A week later when I worked that form i couldn't do that move because it really tweaked my back.

Pinched nerve maybe?

I did that **** to my neck once, man that sucked. Took like 6 weeks to fully recover.

Also, my lower back acts up whenever I have tight hamstrings, since paijiao is giving you trouble, how's your flexibility?

[Kellen Bassette]

Pinched nerve maybe?

I did that **** to my neck once, man that sucked. Took like 6 weeks to fully recover.

Also, my lower back acts up whenever I have tight hamstrings, since paijiao is giving you trouble, how's your flexibility?

I wondered if it may be a pinched nerve too...my flexibility is decent, but not great...I can't do the splits, or put my chest on the ground from a sitting splits position, but before I got hurt I could do a back bridge from standing, drop all the way down in the wing stance, toe touches with my wrists, I do a good bit of stretch kicks and "fancier" kicks...kind of middle of the road on that...

[Scott R. Brown]

If it is muscular, ICE, ICE, ICE! and 800mg Motrin every 8 hours. This is a prescription dose by the way and should only be followed for short periods of time, a few weeks to a month or so!

Ice as often as you can every 2 hours, for 20 mins. for the first 3-4 days after an injury. Then alternate Ice and Heat every two hours as often as you can. Icing at the beginning is the most important thing. I have had injuries that would normally take a number of weeks to heal, heal in a few days to a week, just by icing and motrin.

Always heat before training and ice IMMEDIATELY after you are done. It might be better to do multiple short training sessions than one long one.

And try to avoid anything that will re-injure it. Slowly add stretching back into it and light strengthening and range of motion actions after the first or second week, depending upon the seriousness of the injury..

And listen to tgy if he posts anything, since he is a physical therapist, in hiding, I might add!:p

[bawang]

i agree. he has much wisdom and healing knowledge of a taoist hermit.

[wenshu]

Is the pain unilateral? Does the pain get triggered only within certain range of motion? Everything is all good and then you turn one certain way and BAM! everything locks up? It could very well be a million different things but for whatever it's worth that was my experience.

Anyways, when I had the pinched nerve in my neck, my left scapula felt like it was on fire when I tried to sleep. These helped tremendously, so much so that I keep packets of them around for whenever I **** myself up.

http://lookbeforespending.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/salonpas-large-230-516-1-800.jpg

Forewarning if you are a hirsute individual, removing them can be an ordeal worthy of a little girl removing a band aid.

[Scott R. Brown]

Forewarning if you are a hirsute individual, removing them can be an ordeal worthy of a little girl removing a band aid.

Or a good excuse for one's new found hairlessness!

[Kellen Bassette]

@ Weshu...the pain moves all over the lower back..it will feel like it's coming specifically from one spot, then later it will be up, down or on the opposite side...

you know, I got to start icing it, maybe that's why I'm taking so long to heal..I did a little heat...but I never ice any bruises, muscles or anything...I'm constantly told to, just never have...I got to try that...

[Scott R. Brown]

@ Weshu...the pain moves all over the lower back..it will feel like it's coming specifically from one spot, then later it will be up, down or on the opposite side...

you know, I got to start icing it, maybe that's why I'm taking so long to heal..I did a little heat...but I never ice any bruises, muscles or anything...I'm constantly told to, just never have...I got to try that...

Be sure to put the ice in a T-shirt or pillowcase. You want some cloth between the ice and your skin or you will eventually give your skin frostbite.

This applies to store bought icing pads as well.

[Oso]

...should have been the first word in any response. At least don't train until you figure out what is injured and how to possibly train around it.

and, you're probably not going to figure it out here either.

try to find a real doctor who can treat you. or a real physical therapist.

taigikyan will probably have some good advice but since he can't actually look at you...he'll probably say find someone competent to diagnose you.

otherwise, scott's advice will alleviate the pain and allow rest. though, icing is starting to come in to question in some circles (not arguing for or against, just saying that it is coming in to question)

healing poorly in, i'm guessing, your youth comes back to haunt you later on.

good luck.

[Scott R. Brown]

OKAY!!! Who opened their BIG mouth and invited tgy in???:mad:

[JamesC]

Bookmarked in case of future injury...

[Oso]

lmao :D .....

[Kellen Bassette]

Thanks for all the advice and info guys, I appreciate it!...I haven't git back into a regular training regiment yet...as much as I wanted to, I do feel like it's making progress though...I'm hopeful :)

[IronFist]

Don't ice for more than 15-20 minutes at a time, though.

More than 20 minutes at once is pro-inflammatory which is the opposite of what you want.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Most guys tend to sit on their arse and only work out like crazy now and then. For those that work hard all the time, they seem to be more prone to get silly with it.
I am a lazy man. Ugly and lazy. I would get into a hard fight and by the next day feel like I was frozen in my joints. I got smart and did what Bruce did, and I bought myself a sack full of Tinse Units. They are small little boxes full of batteries, and they have a wire or actually 2 wires with a sticky pad on each one. I stick one on either side of the muscles that were spasming and turn it on. It shocks a little, but it makes these muscles relax and stop spasming. Quick fix if it is only spastic muscles. Worth the money and time looking for one. They can be had at most medical supply places and anyone can buy one.
Bruce Lee used to have one in each pocket. He hooked them to his lats, pecs, six pack, or even his glutts. He stood there jumping all over. It exercised target muscles that he wanted to enhance and he could go about his business day and not have to do the exercises otherwise.

[Scott R. Brown]

Don't ice for more than 15-20 minutes at a time, though.

More than 20 minutes at once is pro-inflammatory which is the opposite of what you want.

Yeah I forgot to mention that, thanks for including that! Its actually 15-25 mins, so I always say 20 mins.


Most guys tend to sit on their arse and only work out like crazy now and then. For those that work hard all the time, they seem to be more prone to get silly with it.
I am a lazy man. Ugly and lazy. I would get into a hard fight and by the next day feel like I was frozen in my joints. I got smart and did what Bruce did, and I bought myself a sack full of Tinse Units. They are small little boxes full of batteries, and they have a wire or actually 2 wires with a sticky pad on each one. I stick one on either side of the muscles that were spasming and turn it on. It shocks a little, but it makes these muscles relax and stop spasming. Quick fix if it is only spastic muscles. Worth the money and time looking for one. They can be had at most medical supply places and anyone can buy one.
Bruce Lee used to have one in each pocket. He hooked them to his lats, pecs, six pack, or even his glutts. He stood there jumping all over. It exercised target muscles that he wanted to enhance and he could go about his business day and not have to do the exercises otherwise.

That's TENS, Transcutaneous Electrical Nerve Stimulation

[IronFist]

Aren't TENS useless except on comatose patients or something to prevent atrophy?

I know they're sold as fitness products but I thought that was just a scam.

[Oso]

...and don't forget to consult the meridian charts...don't want to ice over top of the chi flow...

[Scott R. Brown]

Aren't TENS useless except on comatose patients or something to prevent atrophy?

I know they're sold as fitness products but I thought that was just a scam.

We usually used them for pain management. They were very prevalent some 25-30 years ago, but they have fallen out of favor. Medicine is frought with fads too.

[kwaichang]

It sounds as if you have a structural problem around L4, L5 sacrum and SI joints . They are in the Low back Pelvic area , and it is common in those that do construction landscaping etc, which makes it difficult to perform good mechanics when lifting or moving things. So see some one who can correct the lumbar and SI joints most likely a Posterior Innominate Rotation and L5 Sacral torsion and counter rotation at L5 and opposite Counter rotation at L4. After the structure is Corrected stabilize the core , do not do sit ups. Slowly progress to High Level Core Stabilization exercises, Ice the LB after all w/o and be careful for a while it comes back real easy. KC

[Kellen Bassette]

It sounds as if you have a structural problem around L4, L5 sacrum and SI joints . They are in the Low back Pelvic area , and it is common in those that do construction landscaping etc, which makes it difficult to perform good mechanics when lifting or moving things. So see some one who can correct the lumbar and SI joints most likely a Posterior Innominate Rotation and L5 Sacral torsion and counter rotation at L5 and opposite Counter rotation at L4. After the structure is Corrected stabilize the core , do not do sit ups. Slowly progress to High Level Core Stabilization exercises, Ice the LB after all w/o and be careful for a while it comes back real easy. KC

Certainly possible...It's about 6 weeks since I got hurt now and I have gotten a lot better. I'm back to training, but just Muay Thai. I still don't trust myself to do spins or crescent kicks yet...those are the movements that set it off...I can do Teep and roundhouse all day, can even work the clinch and just get a bit sore, but one lotus kick would put me right back in pain...I'm just going to wait it out until there's no pain from those type of movements.

[bawang]

if it is spinal injury the cheapest rehab method is lots and lots of pull ups. it brings nutrients into your spinal discs.

[taai gihk yahn]

It sounds as if you have a structural problem around L4, L5 sacrum and SI joints . They are in the Low back Pelvic area , and it is common in those that do construction landscaping etc, which makes it difficult to perform good mechanics when lifting or moving things. So see some one who can correct the lumbar and SI joints most likely a Posterior Innominate Rotation and L5 Sacral torsion and counter rotation at L5 and opposite Counter rotation at L4. After the structure is Corrected stabilize the core , do not do sit ups. Slowly progress to High Level Core Stabilization exercises, Ice the LB after all w/o and be careful for a while it comes back real easy. KC
first off, you have no way of knowing this is the case without having examined him; even though you are describing Mitchell's Common Compensatory Pattern, which some sources cite as being the case ~85% of the time (although this is anecdotal, not statistical), you don't know if this is the case with him; to suggest that this is his profile without having examined him is not only irresponsible, it's unethical; and as a PT, you should know better than this;

second of all, if you want to talk treatment on someone who does present with manipulable dysfunction, in the case of a PRI, honestly, who gives a crap: it's an exaggeration of a normal movement along its physiological axis; most of the time it's not primary, or even contributory; and when you correct the underlying issue(s) it usually corrects on its own; and guess what - most asymptomatic people are walking around with a u/l PRI (usually Lt.) anyway; unfortunately, it's a lesion that gets corrected frequently because it's relatively easy to diagnose and "correct"; btut it's a red herring, and most of the time should be ignored; as far as the sacral torsion, if it's a LOL / ROR, same thing - who cares - it's typical, it occurs in gait, and most people are asymmetrical when asymptomatic;
what you really care about in the pelvis are unilateral sacral extensions (rare), iliac upslips (rare), backwards sacral torsions (fairly common) and pubic shears (epidemic); the last two should be corrected by any means available, but you also have to balance pelvic floor, abdominal visceral mass, respiratory diaphragm and probably have a good look at someone's feet, crural interosseous membranes and hip joints as well, instead of stomping on PRIs, FST's and L5/S1(unless you have a true compression of L5 on S1, then you need to decompress that - but correction FRS/ERS's at that level isn't usually a priority)

as far as sit-ups, again, if your goal is to engage transversus, obliques and multifidi, sit-ups in a controlled manner can be useful, it just depends; to say one should / should not do sit-ups without looking at each person individually makes no sense;


if it is spinal injury the cheapest rehab method is lots and lots of pull ups. it brings nutrients into your spinal discs.
no it doesn't - at least no more than any other activity that decreases vertebral loading; and again, when you say "spinal injury", that can mean anything from bone, to ligament, to disc, to nerve, to muscle, each of which require seperate treatment approaches depending on the nature of the pathology;
as far as pull-ups, many people do them wrong, by engaging hip flexors to help get themselves over the top of the bar; in a lot of cases, chroniclly facilitated hip flexors can create significant low back and discal dysfunction; so it's possible that someone could do pull-ups and create more problems than they solve

again, and I say this all the time, IT DEPENDS on the individual, their clinical presentation, etc., and to make either general statements or comment on someone who you haven't examined is irresponsible and unethical;

why is this so hard for people to understand?

[Scott R. Brown]

first off, you have no way of knowing this is the case without having examined him; even though you are describing Mitchell's Common Compensatory Pattern, which some sources cite as being the case ~85% of the time (although this is anecdotal, not statistical), you don't know if this is the case with him; to suggest that this is his profile without having examined him is not only irresponsible, it's unethical; and as a PT, you should know better than this;

second of all, if you want to talk treatment on someone who does present with manipulable dysfunction, in the case of a PRI, honestly, who gives a crap: it's an exaggeration of a normal movement along its physiological axis; most of the time it's not primary, or even contributory; and when you correct the underlying issue(s) it usually corrects on its own; and guess what - most asymptomatic people are walking around with a u/l PRI (usually Lt.) anyway; unfortunately, it's a lesion that gets corrected frequently because it's relatively easy to diagnose and "correct"; btut it's a red herring, and most of the time should be ignored; as far as the sacral torsion, if it's a LOL / ROR, same thing - who cares - it's typical, it occurs in gait, and most people are asymmetrical when asymptomatic;
what you really care about in the pelvis are unilateral sacral extensions (rare), iliac upslips (rare), backwards sacral torsions (fairly common) and pubic shears (epidemic); the last two should be corrected by any means available, but you also have to balance pelvic floor, abdominal visceral mass, respiratory diaphragm and probably have a good look at someone's feet, crural interosseous membranes and hip joints as well, instead of stomping on PRIs, FST's and L5/S1(unless you have a true compression of L5 on S1, then you need to decompress that - but correction FRS/ERS's at that level isn't usually a priority)

as far as sit-ups, again, if your goal is to engage transversus, obliques and multifidi, sit-ups in a controlled manner can be useful, it just depends; to say one should / should not do sit-ups without looking at each person individually makes no sense;


no it doesn't - at least no more than any other activity that decreases vertebral loading; and again, when you say "spinal injury", that can mean anything from bone, to ligament, to disc, to nerve, to muscle, each of which require seperate treatment approaches depending on the nature of the pathology;
as far as pull-ups, many people do them wrong, by engaging hip flexors to help get themselves over the top of the bar; in a lot of cases, chroniclly facilitated hip flexors can create significant low back and discal dysfunction; so it's possible that someone could do pull-ups and create more problems than they solve

again, and I say this all the time, IT DEPENDS on the individual, their clinical presentation, etc., and to make either general statements or comment on someone who you haven't examined is irresponsible and unethical;

YEAH! I was just about to say the same thing! :mad:


why is this so hard for people to understand?

Because..... That's why!!!! :p

[bawang]

no it doesn't - at least no more than any other activity that decreases vertebral loading; and again, when you say "spinal injury", that can mean anything from bone, to ligament, to disc, to nerve, to muscle, each of which require seperate treatment approaches depending on the nature of the pathology;
as far as pull-ups, many people do them wrong, by engaging hip flexors to help get themselves over the top of the bar; in a lot of cases, chroniclly facilitated hip flexors can create significant low back and discal dysfunction; so it's possible that someone could do pull-ups and create more problems than they solve

again, and I say this all the time, IT DEPENDS on the individual, their clinical presentation, etc., and to make either general statements or comment on someone who you haven't examined is irresponsible and unethical;

why is this so hard for people to understand?

its called traction. they do it in rehab all the time. it rehydrates spinal discs. and since kellen said hes dirt poor and cant afford a doctor, i gave him an advice he can actually follow through.

[IronFist]

if it is spinal injury the cheapest rehab method is lots and lots of pull ups. it brings nutrients into your spinal discs.

o rly?

message too short

[taai gihk yahn]

its called traction. they do it in rehab all the time. it rehydrates spinal discs. and since kellen said hes dirt poor and cant afford a doctor, i gave him an advice he can actually follow through.

that's debateable as to a) if that even happens; and b) whether it does anything at all; the literature is rather equivocal regarding the effectiveness and to date I am not familiar with any study that demonstrates that the theory of an osmotic gradient is actually really what happens

with traction, what's more likely happening therapeuticaly is a combination of generalized muscle spasm inhibition via sustained tension and possibly taking pressure off spinal nerves if it actually gets to the level of specificity required for that; again, the available research was rated at "C" by Corchraine (I believe), meaning no discernable effect; and that's when gravity is eliminated and there are no active muscle contractions going on, such as would be the case with pull-ups; and again, if he does them wrong, he can actualy exacerbate his issues;

my point, as always, is that dispensing advice of any kind in a forum in regards to dealing with symptoms, is a risky business...

[kwaichang]

I have treated these sort of injuries for 18 yearsand have been a personal trainer for 8 years prior to that , That said , I have seen more SI dysfunctions assoc with Lumbar Symptoms than I care to shake a stick at. I also said get it checked out. So lets let him do that and see what they find. Many therapists treat differently and 4 therapists looking at the same person can see 4 different problems. I donrt know how many LB problems you have seen but I treat them daily usually 5-6 of 10. They all get better . Yes all. Let us know man , FYI correct the structure and the Mm will correct as well. BTW a SI dysfunction sited in most studies are not using athletes and def not MA as a criteria of the outcomes. KC

[taai gihk yahn]

I have treated these sort of injuries for 18 years
me too


and have been a personal trainer for 8 years prior to that
so for 8 years you caused the problems that you have been trying to atone for the last 18...


, That said , I have seen more SI dysfunctions assoc with Lumbar Symptoms than I care to shake a stick at.
me too; I also have seen most lumbar and SIJ issues have their origin due to problems elsewhere (feet, hips, pelvic floor, respiratory diaphragm, visceral stuff, cranial stuff);



I also said get it checked out. So lets let him do that and see what they find.
that would be the only reasonable suggestion to make, instead of hitting him with jargon that he won't understand and may not be relevant to him;



Many therapists treat differently and 4 therapists looking at the same person can see 4 different problems.
yes; and 3 out of the 4 usually don't know WTF they are actually looking at


I donrt know how many LB problems you have seen but I treat them daily usually 5-6 of 10.
I don't know exactly how many: I treated ~30 people / week for 9 years (1 hour per client, so I was able to really get into detail w each person); when I started to focus on pediatrics more, that number went down to half for a few more years, then less the last several, but in the last year I've started working with ortho pop again; it's still a lot, to the point where I've noticed the things I stated in my previous post, many of which were brought to my attention by Fred Mitchell Jr., DO, so I tend to give him a bit more credence than I might someone else...


They all get better . Yes all.
sure, or course they did; every single pt. w LBP you've ever treated has gotten better; :rolleyes:


Let us know man , FYI correct the structure and the Mm will correct as well.
muscle are part of structure, last time I checked...


BTW a SI dysfunction sited in most studies are not using athletes and def not MA as a criteria of the outcomes. KC
which studies? and how do you know that the patient cohorts didn't contain athletes or martial artists?

[kwaichang]

Ok , I think we both want the best for the injured, But, yes all my LB pts have improved with decreased pain and improved mobility. Corley and Kelsey are ex based PT's in Texas and I m well versed in Ortho /SI problems, CST is an awesom Modality but so is MFR and METherapy, and while the feet and orthotics can have a bearing here the mechanism of injury and the reported pain Co's tell me otherwise, I have seen this too many times, also how many studies utilize high level athletes and MA'sin their studies , very few , Most of the outcome studies use people 40-60 years of age half Female half male to get the broad base pt spectrum as those are the paying clients in Out Pt PT clinics. Still TheVicera typically are the result of the problem not the causation from my experience. OK Your turn KC

[bawang]

o rly?

message too short

ya. i read it from louie simmons. he said it healed his broken back

[Scott R. Brown]

WOW!! You guys got it made!

Almost every one of my patients eventually dies!:(

[IronFist]

ya. i read it from louie simmons. he said it healed his broken back

Does it have to be pullups or does just hanging from a bar count?

[taai gihk yahn]

ya. i read it from louie simmons. he said it healed his broken back
what does "broken back" mean? did he have spinal fractures? if so, all the hanging from a bar in the world won't matter; if it was muscular, then there could be some positive effect


Does it have to be pullups or does just hanging from a bar count?
they both unload the vertebrae, which may or may not rehydrate discs and may or may not take pressure off a nerve root impingement;

[bawang]

Does it have to be pullups or does just hanging from a bar count?

just hanging

my chiro taught me this

what does "broken back" mean? did he have spinal fractures? if so, all the hanging from a bar in the world won't matter; if it was muscular, then there could be some positive effect


his article said he broke his vertebrae two times trying to deadlift 700 pounds

[IronFist]

just hanging


Cuz before you said lots and lots of pullups.

[bawang]

Cuz before you said lots and lots of pullups.

cuz i like to get strong at same tiem bro