Po Pai is it a strike or pushing [Archive]

LFJ

12-24-2012, 08:51 PM

What did you think of the video?

Push and pull are two different energies. They should choose one and do it fully.

It may be fine if you are pulling slightly to change the opponent's facing before applying po-pai. But pulling them into yourself and then trying to push them back is not only useless, but it increases the resistance to your po-pai since their body weight is coming into you.

Po-pai is best used when you have already affected their facing and balance so there is less resistance and your po-pai will be more powerful. Look at the po-pai section of the dummy set. Each one is preceded by an action to change their facing and affect their balance first.

As for pulling actions, if you're going to pull them past you, do it. Why suddenly change energy and push back into them? At least turn and po-pai from the side, where they are weak. They are strong from the front, especially if that's the direction you're pulling them.

Yoshiyahu

01-17-2013, 04:25 PM

seen worse...lots of basic errors.

can you post a better video?

Bacon

01-17-2013, 08:02 PM

It can be a push, a strike, or an indication you can strike with with hand. In training we usually do po pai as a push both for the sake of our partners and because once I've entered past the second gate and can do po pai as a push it means I can do po pai as a strike. Being able to do po pai as a strike means I can hit you with both hands or just one if I choose.

k gledhill

01-17-2013, 09:11 PM

can you post a better video?

I will have a look for one...

Bernard

01-17-2013, 09:48 PM

You know I was watching a couple shuaijiao vids from my library the other day, and I noticed a hip throw counter where the guy's hands seem to resemble Po Pai. Daniel Weng and Peter Chema refers to it as "blowing".

The lower hand would be placed behind the opponent's leg around the knee to counter while the upper hand would then push him forward.

Just a thought...

wingchunIan

01-18-2013, 02:28 AM

RenDaHai

01-18-2013, 07:17 AM

Anyone know the Characters for Po Pai? The name often helps you understand the technique better.

I practiced WC for a time but now I practice northern Kung Fu. WC in recent years has had a lot of evolution outside of China away from its sister styles but it wasn't always this way and sometimes it is useful to look at how similar techniques are applied in other Kung Fu styles.

The standard northern name for this technique is 'ShiZiDaZhangZui' -- Lion opens wide his mouth. Called like this because for one the posture resembles an open mouth. But also in the opening phase the hands move apart while striking, opening. There is also a closing phase.

rett

01-18-2013, 08:49 AM

Anyone know the Characters for Po Pai? The name often helps you understand the technique better.

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62369

Graham H

01-18-2013, 09:51 AM

Always a strike for me in application, with energy in two different directions (up and in & down and in) using "inch energy". Only used as a push in demos and with training partners to illustrate a point or possibly if the situation requires you to eject someone from your vicinity without actually hurting them. It can be turned into a push by driving through with the legs (for me it ceases to be po pai after the strike and is simply biu ma etc with a contact point) but unless you're being nice for some reason why would you not strike?

Ian won't be able to see this because I'm on his ignore list but what an absolute load of rubbish that post is. Energy in two different directions? Only used as a push in demos? Ejecting somebody from the vicinity without hurting them? What nonsense has he been taught? Apparently it ceases to be po pai after the strike. Biu ma with a contact point?

For me that post sums up why wing chun is ruined.

RenDaHai

01-18-2013, 10:33 AM

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62369

Cheers Rett,

'Holding a placard'

So hands like you are holding a board in between them. I guess this describes the position as opposed to the action.

LFJ

01-18-2013, 10:43 AM

Cheers Rett,

'Holding a placard'

So hands like you are holding a board in between them. I guess this describes the position as opposed to the action.

I've also heard "破排" meaning a broken line, because however you angle the hands they don't exactly line up, like the "Shizi Da Zhang Zui" palm position.

YouKnowWho

01-18-2013, 10:55 AM

Bruce Lee once said, "I strike and I don't push".

1 point contact is "strike". 2 (or 3) points contact in reverse directions is "throw". The term "push" is neither a "strike" nor a "throw". What's the purpose of "push"?

If you have to use "push", you will need to "pull" at the same time. If you use one hand to push your opponent's head and use other hand (or leg) to pull (or hook) your opponent's leg, he will be down, This way you can rotate your opponent to move his gravity center to be outside of his base. Just to push your opponent from point A to point B make no sense in combat. People said that you can push your opponent off cliff or into incoming traffic. That argument will never satisfy me.

IMO, "push" without the "leg moves (such as cut, hook, scoop, sweep, break, spring, ...)" is useless in combat.

Here is an example of "push" with hand and "pull" with leg at the same time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38O7wWSzBBk&feature=youtu.be

Bacon

01-18-2013, 06:19 PM

Ali. R

01-18-2013, 08:44 PM

I didn’t want to come up behind your other posts you made in the past, because I didn’t want it to look like I’m just favoring you based on your signature.

Well YKW in application if you have things like stairs, furniture, ledges, uneven ground, pavement, or you can make your opponent fall over, then a push can be pretty effective at damaging or gaining a superior position. Heck even for something like disengaging from the clinch knowing how to push can be very beneficial.

One day, I’d finished a class with a bunch of off duty ‘Hamtramck Police Officers’, and we all ended up at a friend’s coffee shops drinking cappuccino and Lattes. We were all drinking outside on the patio, when a detective; who I’ve never met before pulls up and started to ask me a bunch of questions, for ID and who do I know, where am I going when I leave; saying all of this while going through my pockets, the usual crap that most people like myself go through in the inter city of ‘Detroit’ while driving or walking through that part town (a small polish sub-division right in the middle of the city of ‘Detroit’) And all of this was happening right in front of my students.

They said nothing, because they just wanted to see how I would react, so I just compiled to his every command with no issues. But the lady who own the shop came out and asked him why was he doing all of this to me and he wouldn’t say anything to her, she took offence because she knew him for many years and because he wouldn’t speak to her even with all of the other cops watching. To make a long story short, she was a student for seven years –or- so and was the one who introduce them (cops) to my new school in that area.

She began to explain to him who I was and why all of his fellow comrades were there also, so they’d all came off the patio and stood around the unmarked vehicle as she demonstrated to him some of the things that I’ve taught her in the past. Well, most of the group was standing on the sidewalk while she was on the grass and the detective had half of his feet on the grass and the other half on the curb, and she began to show him a technique that I usually teach in my women’s self –defense classes and this is what happen.

When she took her finger tips and jammed them at/in his sternum (dotting), he reacted in shock, and within the same movement she pressed her palm down on his solar plexus, which slid his feet off the curb as her hand went upwards to his throat using ‘Deh-Jeong’ (panther fist), causing him to fall on her knuckles giving more impact to the strike, he’d gagged for almost two minutes. Everyone cheered as if they’ve seen something in a movie.

You can see the technique that I’m talking about at mark 1:00, stuff that I'd use to do that made judges lean forward in their sets, I use to do throat and cavity pressing technique in a way that the judges couldn’t see them to break the spirit of my opponents before landing heavier strikes. Here’s the clip, watch it at mark 1:00. But, he’s right the terrain can always be used for your advantage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOOxr_SIr6c&feature=share&list=PL74AD0BAD4D62A11A

Lee Chiang Po

01-18-2013, 10:34 PM

In my own style of Wing Chun I call it double palm strike. I don't do the one palm up and one palm down like you see in the forms and such because it can lead to personal wrist injury if it goes bad on you. Also I have used it as a push as well. Pushing can have it's uses. Shoving someone violently into objects can cause injury quickly and easily. And If you do it right you can shove someone completely across a room into a counter top, table, chairs, just about anything that is there.

YouKnowWho

01-18-2013, 10:59 PM

Well YKW in application if you have things like stairs, furniture, ledges, uneven ground, pavement, or you can make your opponent fall over, then a push can be pretty effective at damaging or gaining a superior position. Heck even for something like disengaging from the clinch knowing how to push can be very beneficial.

To keep friends close and enemies closer is always my belief. One time I had an auto accident in Taipei, Taiwan. When I argued with that guy, I found that he kept moving toward his car door. I stood between him and his car door until cops came. Later on cops found out that he had a hand gun in his glove compartment. If I pushed that guy away from me, he might have change to get his gun and came back at me. I like to pull more than push. The best place for my enemy is between my arms. :)

http://imageshack.us/a/img444/5471/octopus.jpg

chaotic2k

01-19-2013, 04:24 AM

Po pai? I prefer chicken veg.....

Vajramusti

01-19-2013, 10:42 AM

Po pai? I prefer chicken veg.....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Takes all kinds to make a village!!

chaotic2k

01-19-2013, 02:09 PM

You stick with the village people. Im living it up in the city homes.

k gledhill

02-05-2013, 10:30 AM

can you post a better video?

http://youtu.be/s6T_8eJEnxc good double palm strike /push...follow up.

BPWT

02-05-2013, 01:08 PM

http://youtu.be/s6T_8eJEnxc good double palm strike /push...follow up.

A quick question for k gledhill. Watching this clip, and few of the others you posted from the WSLPBVT guys, when you are training Chi Sao and Lap Sau, do you try to step into the opponent's/training partner's stance?

I am pretty horrible at remembering the Chinese for these things, but in Leung Ting's WT we call it Yaat Mah Bo Faat (if that helps, but it probably won't as my spelling of it probably doesn't help you much :)).

In these clips (such as the one you linked above) the guys are in hitting range (they can make contact), but I don't see footwork that takes them deeper into the opponent's space.

Is that something you work on in other drills/training, or is it not something your line focusses on?

Ps. That Croatian is a big chap ;)

k gledhill

02-05-2013, 01:50 PM

A quick question for k gledhill. Watching this clip, and few of the others you posted from the WSLPBVT guys, when you are training Chi Sao and Lap Sau, do you try to step into the opponent's/training partner's stance?

I am pretty horrible at remembering the Chinese for these things, but in Leung Ting's WT we call it Yaat Mah Bo Faat (if that helps, but it probably won't as my spelling of it probably doesn't help you much :)).

In these clips (such as the one you linked above) the guys are in hitting range (they can make contact), but I don't see footwork that takes them deeper into the opponent's space.

Is that something you work on in other drills/training, or is it not something your line focusses on?

Ps. That Croatian is a big chap ;)

We have a different tactical objective in mind, a difference in execution to LT lineage.

BPWT

02-05-2013, 02:15 PM

We have a different tactical objective in mind, a difference in execution to LT lineage.

Okay, that's interesting. What is the tactical objective? (I mean in terms of the range between two people when the way to the target is free/clear)

We use a 'stepping into the opponent's stance' to aid the execution of the hit - the idea is to a) allow us to hit with as greater power (using the step and the adduction between the knees to add to the power from the arms), b) to displace the opponent (using the step to affect his balance/stance structure).

Of course, it is impossible to step into the guys stance at every strike, but ultimately we should aim for this sooner or later :) (or that should be, sooner rather than later :D)

Yoshiyahu

02-05-2013, 02:46 PM

Very good Point. I do agree with your analogy concerning more power when your opponent is already off balance or his attacking line is veered off from your centerline. Good Points~
Push and pull are two different energies. They should choose one and do it fully.

It may be fine if you are pulling slightly to change the opponent's facing before applying po-pai. But pulling them into yourself and then trying to push them back is not only useless, but it increases the resistance to your po-pai since their body weight is coming into you.

Po-pai is best used when you have already affected their facing and balance so there is less resistance and your po-pai will be more powerful. Look at the po-pai section of the dummy set. Each one is preceded by an action to change their facing and affect their balance first.

As for pulling actions, if you're going to pull them past you, do it. Why suddenly change energy and push back into them? At least turn and po-pai from the side, where they are weak. They are strong from the front, especially if that's the direction you're pulling them.

k gledhill

02-05-2013, 06:38 PM

Okay, that's interesting. What is the tactical objective? (I mean in terms of the range between two people when the way to the target is free/clear)

We use a 'stepping into the opponent's stance' to aid the execution of the hit - the idea is to a) allow us to hit with as greater power (using the step and the adduction between the knees to add to the power from the arms), b) to displace the opponent (using the step to affect his balance/stance structure).

Of course, it is impossible to step into the guys stance at every strike, but ultimately we should aim for this sooner or later :) (or that should be, sooner rather than later :D)

We try to cut into opponents actions, not into the "pocket" . We step and pivot and combine to develop force to strike but we use the opponents actions to work off.
One major reason rotating strikers give guys trouble is simply that they go into the "pocket" rather than ...alternate ways.
Imagine attacking a man armed with 2 knives always, would you go into his center ?
A boxer , his center ?

BPWT

02-06-2013, 03:08 AM

We try to cut into opponents actions, not into the "pocket" . We step and pivot and combine to develop force to strike but we use the opponents actions to work off. One major reason rotating strikers give guys trouble is simply that they go into the "pocket" rather than ...alternate ways.

Thanks! I think I understand what you are saying about cutting into actions and I think we are using something like this when we can't step into a stance. So maybe not too different - and not too similar either ;)

Imagine attacking a man armed with 2 knives always, would you go into his center?

Tricky question. Probably I wouldn't, unless I somehow had complete control of both of his arms (unlikely if he has knives). But this scenario is kinda ruined by the presence of those knives.

If you hold out your arm in a fist and I walk onto it, I won't really hurt myself (other than my pride :o), but if you hold out a knife (or two knives) and I walk onto one of them... ouch. It takes very little 'effort' to slice or stab someone, as their movements can often do it for you. So no, against knives the whole game kinda changes.

To give a more extreme example, the only footwork that might work against someone with a projective taser gun is... running... in a zig-zag fashion... while ducking... and praying. :D) If you pull one of those on me, I am not thinking about stepping into your stance. :eek:

A boxer, his center?
Another tricky question! In a ring, gloved up, playing by boxing rules? No, I wouldn't.

In a self defense situation? Well, I would really not want to be playing with a boxer at the boxing range for say, a straight right. So I would be trying to close the distance. Of course, stepping into someone's stance can be done from the front, the side (even the back, I guess) all with the aim of taking/controlling the center.

So yes, in this case I would be trying this. 'Don't box the boxer' as the saying goes.

What I was asking, really, about the lap sau and chi sau drills I saw in your video clips, is why you keep the striking distance but don't close it further when you have control of the center? It looked, to me, a bit like the same range was always kept.

But if that is just the nature of the way you do those drills, then that is cool - it is the way you do it. I was just curious.

k gledhill

02-06-2013, 09:19 AM

Thanks! I think I understand what you are saying about cutting into actions and I think we are using something like this when we can't step into a stance. So maybe not too different - and not too similar either ;)

Tricky question. Probably I wouldn't, unless I somehow had complete control of both of his arms (unlikely if he has knives). But this scenario is kinda ruined by the presence of those knives.

If you hold out your arm in a fist and I walk onto it, I won't really hurt myself (other than my pride :o), but if you hold out a knife (or two knives) and I walk onto one of them... ouch. It takes very little 'effort' to slice or stab someone, as their movements can often do it for you. So no, against knives the whole game kinda changes.

To give a more extreme example, the only footwork that might work against someone with a projective taser gun is... running... in a zig-zag fashion... while ducking... and praying. :D) If you pull one of those on me, I am not thinking about stepping into your stance. :eek:

Another tricky question! In a ring, gloved up, playing by boxing rules? No, I wouldn't.

In a self defense situation? Well, I would really not want to be playing with a boxer at the boxing range for say, a straight right. So I would be trying to close the distance. Of course, stepping into someone's stance can be done from the front, the side (even the back, I guess) all with the aim of taking/controlling the center.

So yes, in this case I would be trying this. 'Don't box the boxer' as the saying goes.

What I was asking, really, about the lap sau and chi sau drills I saw in your video clips, is why you keep the striking distance but don't close it further when you have control of the center? It looked, to me, a bit like the same range was always kept.

But if that is just the nature of the way you do those drills, then that is cool - it is the way you do it. I was just curious.

We dont treat chi-sao as a battle ground, so if you see a pause at a certain distance unlike your own ideas, it may be simply be to 'cut off' and start over.
Laap sao drills are to condition elbows, and the various actions and reactions possible within a modular isolation of this exchange sequence one may face at speeds while fighting. Added later to gor sao they can involve anything, stepping in or angling out, etc...random use, relying on thoughtless responses.

BPWT

02-06-2013, 09:54 AM

Okay, thanks for explaining.

Our lap sau in WT is a little different, but we share some of the same teaching progression, I think.

Lap sau with isolated sequences [to work various responses and also to understand concepts] leading on to gor sau [to play those responses in a random way as needed and to try and get the concepts out in a more live setting].

k gledhill

02-06-2013, 10:09 AM

Laap sao has many variations within the 'drill' of attack and counters with angles etc....many just seem to grab n hit then swap roles and wait to be grabbed and hit...There is a lot of repetition to condition the punching elbows angles, and try to stay relaxed at high speeds, not freezing, etc...

BPWT

02-06-2013, 10:23 AM

Indeed. :)

I was taught that the drill is to train the punching elbow, the reaction of bong to pressure (plus using bong to prevent the line of attack from opening up), to check we have forward pressure, to check our wu sau, etc, etc. Lots happening just within the basic sequence.

But we can work pretty much any exchange into the lap sau drill, so often we use it as a platform to start things from. I like it as it is somewhere in between training from no contact (no bridge) and training with an established bridge with both hands (poon sau). And in lap sau it is easy to flow between various aspects of all of these bridging options.

But sorry all, I have derailed the talk of Po Pai ;)

Yoshiyahu

02-08-2013, 03:44 PM

If your opponent is against the wall trying to move forward...Po Pai Push is very useful!

bennyvt

02-12-2013, 06:51 AM

i was always taught it was for range or to push the guy into something dangerous, ie wsl pushing the guy off the roof.

k gledhill

02-12-2013, 07:25 AM

I have used po pai a lot in fighting, it's a sophisticated shove ; ) inch punch force x 2

wingchunIan

02-12-2013, 10:22 AM

I have used po pai a lot in fighting, it's a sophisticated shove ; ) inch punch force x 2
no surprise you have a very different understanding of inch punch force than I do. In the way that I have been taught when the opponent is struck the aim should be to strike to the jic seen and send them straight down not push them away.

k gledhill

02-12-2013, 10:30 AM

no surprise you have a very different understanding of inch punch force than I do. In the way that I have been taught when the opponent is struck the aim should be to strike to the jic seen and send them straight down not push them away.

Fights I have start in all kinds of ways...when I get a good punch a guy will normally slide on his ass 6-7 ft back...some I hit and they roll with it so I shove them into range again or kick...some I start by shoving them out of my face...varies, fighting. At least my experiences, no 2 the same.
Once I hit a guy starting outside a nightclub, he instinctively dropped his head so I hit him flush on the forehead and he just stood there ( drunk ? drugs ), before he could recover ,I shoved him down a flight of stairs..he ended being knicked by a policeman who walked into the fight as we got to the bottom of the stairs...

Yoshiyahu

02-12-2013, 02:57 PM

i was always taught it was for range or to push the guy into something dangerous, ie wsl pushing the guy off the roof.

Good Point i absolutely agree!

wingchunIan

02-12-2013, 03:44 PM

Fights I have start in all kinds of ways...when I get a good punch a guy will normally slide on his ass 6-7 ft back..

Wow! In all my years of witnessing ugly scenes at footie, bar brawls; my own altercations; and watching MT, MMA, boxing etc I've never seen anyone fly back 6-7ft when hit apart from a dodgy demo on you tube where the guy being hit is holding a telephone book on his chest, and pushing techniques such as teep in MT and sidekicks in karate / tkd tournaments.

k gledhill

02-12-2013, 07:28 PM

Wow! In all my years of witnessing ugly scenes at footie, bar brawls; my own altercations; and watching MT, MMA, boxing etc I've never seen anyone fly back 6-7ft when hit apart from a dodgy demo on you tube where the guy being hit is holding a telephone book on his chest, and pushing techniques such as teep in MT and sidekicks in karate / tkd tournaments.

You never saw a senior vt student strike and ko a guy in a fight ?? A commoner wouldn't strike the same straight lines we do...experience in combat mate....;) not a lifetime pretending to hit people. I have been complemented by onlookers on my punch after fights more than once, (ego rampant Joy, yes) ...but hey, if you got it baby, flaunt it. :D my kick is pretty amazing too. maybe a clip is needed for frosty.

wingchunIan

02-13-2013, 01:56 AM

You never saw a senior vt student strike and ko a guy in a fight ?? A commoner wouldn't strike the same straight lines we do...experience in combat mate....;) not a lifetime pretending to hit people. I have been complemented by onlookers on my punch after fights more than once, (ego rampant Joy, yes) ...but hey, if you got it baby, flaunt it. :D my kick is pretty amazing too. maybe a clip is needed for frosty.

Never mentioned commoners Kev, I've seen highly trained martial artists (including world champions), ex proffessional boxers etc on the doors slam people hard, some of the guys that used to brawl at footie games were anything but common and were some of the hardest nastiest fighters I've ever seen. Equally I wouldn't refer to Mayweather, Tyson, Lewis, Liddell, Jackson etc etc etc as commoners.

wingchunIan

02-13-2013, 02:03 AM

You never saw a senior vt student strike and ko a guy in a fight ?? A commoner wouldn't strike the same straight lines we do...experience in combat mate....;) not a lifetime pretending to hit people. I have been complemented by onlookers on my punch after fights more than once, (ego rampant Joy, yes) ...but hey, if you got it baby, flaunt it. :D my kick is pretty amazing too. maybe a clip is needed for frosty.

btw I wouldn't see moving someone back 6ft as anything to flaunt, if you hit them properly they should drop where they stand. From a purely theoretical perspective any of your force that causes the opponent to move away from you is wasted as kinetic energy.
As you like your boxing and spend time in a boxing gym, when working a heavy bag which is the best punch - the one that swings the bag through a big arc or the one that moves it little but folds it in two?

wingchunIan

02-13-2013, 02:06 AM

...experience in combat mate....;) not a lifetime pretending to hit people.

or maybe an overactive imagination :p, my observations were based on my own experiences of fighting, there are plenty of people on this forum with fight experience of one type or another.

k gledhill

02-13-2013, 04:55 AM

k gledhill

02-13-2013, 04:56 AM

or maybe an overactive imagination :p, my observations were based on my own experiences of fighting, there are plenty of people on this forum with fight experience of one type or another.

How many guys you ko with a punch ?

wingchunIan

02-13-2013, 05:03 AM

How many guys you ko with a punch ?

Never felt the need to count, but plenty over the years. Also been KO'd myself a fair few times.

k gledhill

02-13-2013, 05:06 AM

Never felt the need to count, but plenty over the years. Also been KO'd myself a fair few times.

And the inch punch demo,you ever done that ?

wingchunIan

02-13-2013, 05:11 AM

So an inch punch can send a guy backwards into a chair several feet (5-6 ft easy ) at a demo, but you cant knock a guy down the same way in a real fight to ko him ?? :confused:
I have hit a enough people defending myself to not need reference a 'heavy bag'. Yeah I hit heavy bags daily but none will slide due the thing called a chain on top ;)

See my original post, the demo in question is tosh and is a combination of a push and a very compliant student. If the student holding the phonebook had collapsed to their knees on the spot and reproduced their breakfast I would have been far more impressed. With regards the bag I never mentioned it sliding try reading the post before responding. The question was which is the more impressive punch, the one that makes the bag SWING in a big arc or the one that moves it little but folds it in half?

k gledhill

02-13-2013, 05:51 AM

So if you hit a guy with force in the head and he falls backwards and then moves in the direction you hit them ? How hard is that to grasp ?

wingchunIan

02-13-2013, 10:50 AM

Kev you still haven't answered the question re the punches on the heavy bag. I hope that your footwork is as evasive as your posting ;)

So if you hit a guy with force in the head and he falls backwards and then moves in the direction you hit them ? How hard is that to grasp ?
If they're still concious they may step back or stumble, unconcious people go down as their legs buckle beneath them even if their body position means that they fall backwards they crumple not fly across the room.

And the inch punch demo,you ever done that ? not the way its shown on you tube, no. I've broken boards and smashed fruit etc for show but never pushed a volunteer across a stage into a piece of board or onto a chair. It is completely alien to my understanding of fa jing and the idea of on off energy.

I'll leave it to you to wrap up this conversation. I've expressed my POV and we clearly have dipole positions on this. Each to their own

k gledhill

02-15-2013, 07:49 AM

http://youtu.be/km7xuoeF5B0 some po-pai in use...

k gledhill

02-15-2013, 07:50 AM

Kev you still haven't answered the question re the punches on the heavy bag. I hope that your footwork is as evasive as your posting ;)

?
If they're still concious they may step back or stumble, unconcious people go down as their legs buckle beneath them even if their body position means that they fall backwards they crumple not fly across the room.

not the way its shown on you tube, no. I've broken boards and smashed fruit etc for show but never pushed a volunteer across a stage into a piece of board or onto a chair. It is completely alien to my understanding of fa jing and the idea of on off energy.

I'll leave it to you to wrap up this conversation. I've expressed my POV and we clearly have dipole positions on this. Each to their own

watch ufc, when guys get hit and go backwards to the floor (5-6ft) as the hitter runs after them to gnp.

wingchunIan

02-15-2013, 09:25 AM

watch ufc, when guys get hit and go backwards to the floor (5-6ft) as the hitter runs after them to gnp.

lol, I watch UFC all the time, along with WEC etc and the only time people go backwards that distance is when they stumble because they are concious /semi concious, definitely no sliding involved. Whenever someone gets KO'd standing up they go straight down.

Oh and you still haven't answered the question re the bag...........:p

k gledhill

02-15-2013, 09:33 AM

lol, I watch UFC all the time, along with WEC etc and the only time people go backwards that distance is when they stumble because they are concious /semi concious, definitely no sliding involved. Whenever someone gets KO'd standing up they go straight down.

Oh and you still haven't answered the question re the bag...........:p

Ah, you're stuck on sliding, okay some fly through the air, some slide, some fly back into walls and back at me, etc...more variety... better ??

Bags differ in weight filling, at our gym we have 10-12 various bags. Everlast uses our gym as a testing ground for new stuff. Giving you a reply is difficult.
I found that the reality of the man on his arse or still standing tells me what my punch did or didnt do...not a heavy bag. I use a tennis ball on 3mm elastic cord that gets more respect from the boxers as I work out than heavy bag ...accuracy/reaction/timing in motion its tuff !!