Wing Chun forms

[R0NiN]

I was wondering, in what order did each of you learn the forms (Sil Lim Tao, Chum Kiu, Biu Tze, wooden man, dragon pole, and butterfly knives)? Also what was the time between each form you have learned, for example, a person learning Chum Kiu 2 years after learning Sil Lim Tao? I heard some instructors teach each empty hand forms withing the first year of training, and others span the forms out through a whole decade of training.

[wtxs]

I was wondering, in what order did each of you learn the forms (Sil Lim Tao, Chum Kiu, Biu Tze, wooden man, dragon pole, and butterfly knives)? Also what was the time between each form you have learned, for example, a person learning Chum Kiu 2 years after learning Sil Lim Tao? I heard some instructors teach each empty hand forms withing the first year of training, and others span the forms out through a whole decade of training.

Just MHO ... (this applies to some schools) the longer you have to wait, the more you had to pay.

[Almost A Ghost]

Most schools.

SLT > CK > BG > Dummy > Pole > Swords

Now I've seen some schools teach the dummy before BG because they feel the student has enough footwork training to go to the dummy (I disagree). Others teach it that early, or earlier, just to keep people around because of the common misconception that it's the ultimate training tool.

[anerlich]

SLT > CK > BJ

Dummy and weapons are generally taught in parallel in seminar formats with some revision in class.

Several over-generalisations by other posters about motivations for teaching a particular way IMO.

Forms are an important part of training but hardly the only thing on which pedagogy should be based. For example you should be learning some footwork and kicking well before you do CK IMO.

It just ain't that complicated, despite some people perhaps wishing it were or pretending it is.

[LFJ]

Sometimes the first bit of the dummy set which contains mostly SNT and CK ideas will be taught after these sets, then BJ will be taught before going on to the rest of the dummy which introduces more BJ type concepts.

[Graham H]

SLT - CK - First 60 movements of the Dummy and Long Pole begins - BJ and last dummy movements - knives is dependent on the student and is normally taught at the instructors discretion.

[Judokarl]

I am still considered a novice since I have been only been doing wing chun for about a year so I am still on Sil Lim Tao. The newest form we are working on is a tai chi form. I am 90% sure we are going to work on CK next.

[hulkout]

At our school, we learn Sil Lim Tao, Chum Kiu, Biu Jee, Dummy, Long Pole, and finally Butterfly Swords. However, there are many things taught before actually learning the form to get us ready for it. Once the student has learned Sil Lim Tao well enough along with the drills and applications, he is introduced to Huen Ma stepping from the Biu Jee form and also the battle punches in the low horse stance to prepare for the long pole training. The thinking is that if you practice these drills early on and get good at them, then when you actually learn the form, you'll be a lot better at them since you're already used to the feeling and energy.

[Graham H]

I am still considered a novice since I have been only been doing wing chun for about a year so I am still on Sil Lim Tao. The newest form we are working on is a tai chi form. I am 90% sure we are going to work on CK next.

There is no Tai Chi in Wing Chun unless your Teacher has substituted something through lack of understanding :confused:

[anerlich]

There is no Tai Chi in Wing Chun

Duh.

He didn't say there was. His teacher probably does taiji as well.

[Eric_H]

Sil Lim Tao, Chum Kiu, Biu Tze, wooden man, dragon pole when doing Yip Man WC,
though the dummy was given in certain sections along with Chum Kiu and Biu Gee. Completed all in 2 years at about 20-25 hours/week.

My first Sifu only taught swords to about 5 people I'm aware of (of which I was not one), his exact words after seeing the HFY swords were that in comparison, the YM swords were not worth teaching... so he stopped teaching them.

In Hung Fa Yi it's been

Basic Wing Chun Formula, Basic Siu Nim Tao, first 3 sections of the short bridge dummy, Jaam Jong Faat Geng, Basic version of Chum Kiu, Dip Gwat Gung Siu Lein Tao, Bai Jong Baat Bo Jin, Saam Bo Jin, Long Bridge Dummy, Saap Ming Dim Siu Lein Tao, Advanced Siu Nim Tao, standardized Wing Chun Formula.

Hoping to graduate to Advanced Chum Kiu in the summer hopefully along with the dragon/tiger short pole (Lung Fu Gwan), there's a heavy chi sao requirement on that first though.

That's where I'm at after starting HFY in 2005, average of 15 hours a week long distance until late 2011, which I'm now local to my sifu and putting in about 10 hours/week (he has fewer classes).

[Graham H]

Duh.

He didn't say there was. His teacher probably does taiji as well.

In my opinion when he says the newest from they are working on is tai on a wing chun forum that means there is wc in his tc anerlich you putz!

[Graham H]

Advanced Chum Kiu

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[Eric_H]

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My current teacher taught a basic version of Chum Kiu back in the early 2000's to members of our org because they had WC backgrounds and wanted to learn some of chum kiu, but it's not the full version.

We're calling it "advanced" to delineate the versions, but it's basically what Chum Kiu is really supposed to be as far as our lineage is concerned.

[anerlich]

In my opinion when he says the newest from they are working on is tai on a wing chun forum that means there is wc in his tc anerlich you putz!

You are entitled to incorrect opinions. I would say you have them about Phil's videos, after all.

You need to work on some better insults. "Putz" is pretty lame.

Work on your typing, too. People might think you are getting emotional when you make so many mistakes.

[Graham H]

You are entitled to incorrect opinions. I would say you have them about Phil's videos, after all.

You need to work on some better insults. "Putz" is pretty lame.

Work on your typing, too. People might think you are getting emotional when you make so many mistakes.

Ha ha! He's only been and pulled the grammar card out lol

Due to the amount of posts that get moderated on here I have to keep my language down! :)

You are also entitled to your incorrect opinions mon frere! :D

[Judokarl]

There is no Tai Chi in Wing Chun unless your Teacher has substituted something through lack of understanding :confused: Never claimed their was tai chi in wing chun, but we are taught Tai Chi in our wing chun class because or instructor knows it and we feel its nice to have at least a half way decent knowelge of it. As someone whos primary style is Judo it is one of the more enjoyable parts of the class for me since I enjoy the heay emphasis on kuzushi that it seems to have. Plus I am lazy and knocking people onto the ground is almost as flashy as knocking people out but takes alot less effort :p





Duh.

He didn't say there was. His teacher probably does taiji as well. This.



In my opinion when he says the newest from they are working on is tai on a wing chun forum that means there is wc in his tc anerlich you putz! Well we are allowed to utilize the taiji in sparring, but I was by no means trying to imply that it was WC in any way, just that that was the current order things were being taught to me. Sorry for the confusion




You are also entitled to your incorrect opinions mon frere! :D

Woah Wo Woah, Calm down! We are all civil gelteman here no need to debase ourselfs to resorting to using French.

[anerlich]

pulled the grammar card

Actually, spelling and typos.

[Graham H]

Actually, spelling and typos.

Well I was typing off an iPad so that's my excuse. I'll run spell checker next time just for you! :)

[Ali. R]

When dealing with wing chun forms they’re actually a mental precursor of applications, burned within the confines of muscle memory. Therefore the transitions from structure to structure are not just movements, but develops a metaphysical assertiveness, while finding the actual point of application from the beginning to middle and end of each transition dealing with each individual structures of the forms.

Training in the forms and studying them consistently while developing the values within them, can easily give one a greater chance of recognizing which weapon or application would have the best timing, positioning to deal with their opponents reaction within drills, chi sao or sparring and to jump on ones intentions within the infancy of their intent; while at the same time developing the idea of non-deviation within application/structure.