Vin Tsun clips 3 "the return"

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/rmn8gbaOhws

[GlennR]

http://youtu.be/rmn8gbaOhws

Great, it's a trilogy longer than lord of the rings!!!!!

[k gledhill]

Great, it's a trilogy longer than lord of the rings!!!!!

See anything you can discuss beyond inane responses ?

[Alan Orr]

See anything you can discuss beyond inane responses ?

Okay. I'm not starting a flame war. You are asking so I will just give an opinion and I hope it can be discussed without having go back on about right and wrong wing chun.

I just can't see more that semi demo drill chi sao. Maybe it's the style's trademark. But for me and it is just my view - I feel it lacks connection to the goal of wing chun. Which is dealing with a fight. It seems to much wing chun vs wing chun. Pure drilling. That's okay for beginners, but we never see anything beyond that.

In terms of angles etc it's all okay. But I don't see body structure body in the way I view it. The style doesn't use root in a way that I think it would need to in order to hold stance under tough pressure. I know people will say they will move and hit etc etc. But I am just being honest from the point of view of someone that trains fiighters for MMA, boxing K1. In lacks the natural timing of movement for me. It's good level of drilling of what they do. Chi Sao is just training as people will say. But fighting is not just training. So the training has to offer a skill which works in fighting. If a guy was not that good and throws a punch then yes a set drill can work. But I have seen so much nice drilling fall down as soon as the drill is not in play. A stronger fighter will smash though a weak drill as such.

So instead of attacking my crazy view or reminding me that I just use strength or that I don't know wing chun - lets try something new.

Questions -

What do you think this type of drilling demo style chi sao brings to a fight?

Do you think it will stop a guy using power and strength?

Chi Sao is just a drill? if so why does is it somethings showed with a better guy beating a not so good guy? Not saying that it the wrong thing. But it seems to go against the idea of a drilling skill if that's the case.

Would this sort of training stop a MMA fighter (levels basic guy, good guy, advance guy)?

Please explain the next stage in this style to take this to sparing - as I have seen sparring with head gear etc but that all became a long range in and out trade. Is the goal that? or is the goal to get in and stay in and use infighting skills? As I don't see that in the other clips of this style.

Again we all know we have different views, which is all fine.

I am just asking about stuff that is on my mind when I watch this different view.

[Robinhood]

Okay. I'm not starting a flame war. You are asking so I will just give an opinion and I hope it can be discussed without having go back on about right and wrong wing chun.

I just can't see more that semi demo drill chi sao. Maybe it's the style's trademark. But for me and it is just my view - I feel it lacks connection to the goal of wing chun. Which is dealing with a fight. It seems to much wing chun vs wing chun. Pure drilling. That's okay for beginners, but we never see anything beyond that.

In terms of angles etc it's all okay. But I don't see body structure body in the way I view it. The style doesn't use root in a way that I think it would need to in order to hold stance under tough pressure. I know people will say they will move and hit etc etc. But I am just being honest from the point of view of someone that trains fiighters for MMA, boxing K1. In lacks the natural timing of movement for me. It's good level of drilling of what they do. Chi Sao is just training as people will say. But fighting is not just training. So the training has to offer a skill which works in fighting. If a guy was not that good and throws a punch then yes a set drill can work. But I have seen so much nice drilling fall down as soon as the drill is not in play. A stronger fighter will smash though a weak drill as such.

So instead of attacking my crazy view or reminding me that I just use strength or that I don't know wing chun - lets try something new.

Questions -

What do you think this type of drilling demo style chi sao brings to a fight?

Do you think it will stop a guy using power and strength?

Chi Sao is just a drill? if so why does is it somethings showed with a better guy beating a not so good guy? Not saying that it the wrong thing. But it seems to go against the idea of a drilling skill if that's the case.

Would this sort of training stop a MMA fighter (levels basic guy, good guy, advance guy)?

Please explain the next stage in this style to take this to sparing - as I have seen sparring with head gear etc but that all became a long range in and out trade. Is the goal that? or is the goal to get in and stay in and use infighting skills? As I don't see that in the other clips of this style.

Again we all know we have different views, which is all fine.

I am just asking about stuff that is on my mind when I watch this different view.

They can only practice what they know.

With out a proper structure that is what it looks like, two guys racing for position.

[LaRoux]

http://youtu.be/rmn8gbaOhws

Once again, no actual fighting and not really much relationship to actual fighting.

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/K3hLnXD8SlA

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/UXqOT8c0Ry0

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/fkA7GqmpfkE


I met Hawkins Sifu years ago. Alans, teachers, teacher.

[LaRoux]

http://youtu.be/fkA7GqmpfkE


I met Hawkins Sifu years ago. Alans, teachers, teacher.

And the point is what?

The point must be that Hawkins has one of the few lineages that is actually providing evidence that they are using his version of wing chun in full contact situations.

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/OSqvZD4Ez3s

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/ZnIVhighInU

[LaRoux]

Here's a much better demonstration of what true structure and power delivery is about (demonstrated in a live, full contact manner):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImxUpS1UseA

[JPinAZ]

See anything you can discuss beyond inane responses ?

Nothing more to say that Alan hasn't already. I don't always agree with his approach to wing chun, but I think he's gotten to the meat of it and is pretty spot-on with what he's said.

Besides that, I don't really see the point. To be blunt, you'll just end up getting your panties in a wad and delete this thread within a few days just like you've to most others when they don't go the way you like. ;)

[anerlich]

Great, it's a trilogy longer than lord of the rings!!!!!

Probably more like Star Wars. "Return of the Jedi" being the third installment of many more.

Waiting for Kev's version of "The Phantom Menace". Unless that's anyone who thinks the chi-sao warriors in his clips don't have the skill of Yoda.

Strange way to attack Alan, posting clips of his teacher's teacher and himself.

[k gledhill]

I delete threads that lose direction anerlich for lack of moderation...Like Frost posting grappling links :confused: :)
I forget sometimes after nearly 30 years doing this VT thing, oh yeah...Years ago I was in L.A. California while doing a USA tour with GM V Kan as his senior instructor and visiting A Fong in arizona, Chris Chan in S.Fran, Kenneth Cheung, and .....Hawkins Cheung..... I remember HC complimented me personally on my bong sao's, chi-sao at an after seminar dinner. This was after watching me and his student R Chu chi-sao....I later had R Chu...Alans teacher, asking me ( privately ) how I turned him in chi-sao , how my bong sao worked, etc...this was all private between me and R Chu during the break in a seminar. H Cheung gave me and a student of V Kan attending , a big explanation of VT alone one night in his school. Great, he was very excited and animated about it.

Oh and M Tyson and me

[LaRoux]

I delete threads that lose direction anerlich for lack of moderation...Like Frost posting grappling links :confused: :)
I forget sometimes after nearly 30 years doing this VT thing, oh yeah...Years ago I was in L.A. California while doing a USA tour with GM V Kan as his senior instructor and visiting A Fong in arizona, Chris Chan in S.Fran, Kenneth Cheung, and .....Hawkins Cheung..... I remember HC complimented me personally on my bong sao's, chi-sao at an after seminar dinner. This was after watching me and his student R Chu chi-sao....I later had R Chu...Alans teacher, asking me ( privately ) how I turned him in chi-sao , how my bong sao worked, etc...this was all private between me and R Chu during the break in a seminar. H Cheung gave me and a student of V Kan attending , a big explanation of VT alone one night in his school. Great, he was very excited and animated about it.

Chi sao, oh, OK.


Oh and M Tyson and me

You met Tyson and took a picture with him, oh, OK.

[k gledhill]

Chi sao, oh, OK.



You met Tyson and took a picture with him, oh, OK.


Yes & yes.

[LaRoux]

Yes & yes.

So far, what has been shown in the "Return of Vin Tsun 3" seems to suggest that the closest Vin Tsun gets to actual skill is doing chi sao and meeting fighters and taking pictures with them.

[GlennR]

Great, it's a trilogy longer than lord of the rings!!!!!

Well I can't open the link, so no I can't

Having said that, lighten up Kevin, it's just a forum

[GlennR]

Probably more like Star Wars. "Return of the Jedi" being the third installment of many more.

Waiting for Kev's version of "The Phantom Menace". Unless that's anyone who thinks the chi-sao warriors in his clips don't have the skill of Yoda.

Strange way to attack Alan, posting clips of his teacher's teacher and himself.

Does that make Kevin the ja ja binks of VT??

[wingchunIan]

Okay. I'm not starting a flame war. You are asking so I will just give an opinion and I hope it can be discussed without having go back on about right and wrong wing chun.

I just can't see more that semi demo drill chi sao. Maybe it's the style's trademark. But for me and it is just my view - I feel it lacks connection to the goal of wing chun. Which is dealing with a fight. It seems to much wing chun vs wing chun. Pure drilling. That's okay for beginners, but we never see anything beyond that.

In terms of angles etc it's all okay. But I don't see body structure body in the way I view it. The style doesn't use root in a way that I think it would need to in order to hold stance under tough pressure. I know people will say they will move and hit etc etc. But I am just being honest from the point of view of someone that trains fiighters for MMA, boxing K1. In lacks the natural timing of movement for me. It's good level of drilling of what they do. Chi Sao is just training as people will say. But fighting is not just training. So the training has to offer a skill which works in fighting. If a guy was not that good and throws a punch then yes a set drill can work. But I have seen so much nice drilling fall down as soon as the drill is not in play. A stronger fighter will smash though a weak drill as such.

So instead of attacking my crazy view or reminding me that I just use strength or that I don't know wing chun - lets try something new.

Questions -

What do you think this type of drilling demo style chi sao brings to a fight?

Do you think it will stop a guy using power and strength?

Chi Sao is just a drill? if so why does is it somethings showed with a better guy beating a not so good guy? Not saying that it the wrong thing. But it seems to go against the idea of a drilling skill if that's the case.

Would this sort of training stop a MMA fighter (levels basic guy, good guy, advance guy)?

Please explain the next stage in this style to take this to sparing - as I have seen sparring with head gear etc but that all became a long range in and out trade. Is the goal that? or is the goal to get in and stay in and use infighting skills? As I don't see that in the other clips of this style.

Again we all know we have different views, which is all fine.

I am just asking about stuff that is on my mind when I watch this different view.

Best post I've read on here in ages. I'm not making any judgements on whose POV is correct but the post is written in an open, engaging and polite manner. If all posts were like this the forum would be infinitely better.

[Graham H]

deleted.

I now worship Alan Orr

[anerlich]

I delete threads that lose direction anerlich for lack of moderation...Like Frost posting grappling links :confused: :)
I forget sometimes after nearly 30 years doing this VT thing, oh yeah...Years ago I was in L.A. California while doing a USA tour with GM V Kan as his senior instructor and visiting A Fong in arizona, Chris Chan in S.Fran, Kenneth Cheung, and .....Hawkins Cheung..... I remember HC complimented me personally on my bong sao's, chi-sao at an after seminar dinner. This was after watching me and his student R Chu chi-sao....I later had R Chu...Alans teacher, asking me ( privately ) how I turned him in chi-sao , how my bong sao worked, etc...this was all private between me and R Chu during the break in a seminar. H Cheung gave me and a student of V Kan attending , a big explanation of VT alone one night in his school. Great, he was very excited and animated about it.

Oh and M Tyson and me

So why still the chip on your shoulder Kev?

I've been around TCMA for about 35 years ... interspersed with about 15 in BJJ, and about 5 around MMA ... I don't need to post all these clips or drop all these names to feel secure. Must suck to be you.

[Frost]

So why still the chip on your shoulder Kev?

I've been around TCMA for about 35 years ... interspersed with about 15 in BJJ, and about 5 around MMA ... I don't need to post all these clips or drop all these names to feel secure. Must suck to be you.

Snap (well almost) 25 years in TMA, 10 in grappling and MMA, I don’t need to name drop either but I will just this once: one of the threads kevin deleted was about Anderson silva doing wing chun when I pointed out Silva was a Thai and BJJ guy and that’s where his skills come from and then posted clips of him with his coaches (one of whom I know personally) kevin had a hissy fit and deleted the thread…twice lol
He can dish the insults and knowing comments out but cant seem to take it

[Graham H]

Must suck to be you.

I think we have hit rock bottom :eek:

[GlennR]

I think we have hit rock bottom :eek:

Nah, we can go lower than this!

[Alan Orr]

I delete threads that lose direction anerlich for lack of moderation...Like Frost posting grappling links :confused: :)
I forget sometimes after nearly 30 years doing this VT thing, oh yeah...Years ago I was in L.A. California while doing a USA tour with GM V Kan as his senior instructor and visiting A Fong in arizona, Chris Chan in S.Fran, Kenneth Cheung, and .....Hawkins Cheung..... I remember HC complimented me personally on my bong sao's, chi-sao at an after seminar dinner. This was after watching me and his student R Chu chi-sao....I later had R Chu...Alans teacher, asking me ( privately ) how I turned him in chi-sao , how my bong sao worked, etc...this was all private between me and R Chu during the break in a seminar. H Cheung gave me and a student of V Kan attending , a big explanation of VT alone one night in his school. Great, he was very excited and animated about it.

Oh and M Tyson and me

What are you talking about? You ask for views on a clip. I tried to give my insight and requested you to explain yours as asked. So you come back with a back in the day story. Are you trying to say my teacher 20 years ago asked you a question so you must be better? Lol you must need support bro. My teacher is very open minded and will always ask others tons of questions. That's what you do when you meet other styles, then you go away and do what you want.

This is the big wing Chun problem - guys can't even train and talk without someone trying to live off it. Time to grow up and just get on with it.

You think the posted clip was good. Then great for you. I did not but asked for insights to why you did.

Posting random pictures or trying to direct it away is pointless

[Alan Orr]

How do you know how much power and strength is being used from a video?? :confused:



Nobody is "fighting" in any of these chi sau videos so you have a valid point.




I can only speak for myself but stopping an MMA fighter is the last thing on my mind. Why bother yourself with such things? Your thinking suggests that ALL combat systems should prove their worth against MMA. It's a pointless discussion IMO.

One thing you are forgetting Alan is that a street fight doesn't go on for too long in most cases. The result usually depends on the power of the strikes and the amount landed. Just because you train MMA does not mean you can knock out all comers. It depends on many factors. Too many to list so why dwell on it.
Lets look at it from a hypothetical POV. An untrained guy happens to get in some bother with a guy who trains MMA. The untrained guy blind sides him, knocks him to the floor and kicks his head in. Who is the better fighter??? You couldn't even answer that question because the next time it may be different.

Until somebody punches you on the chin it makes no odds about styles!!! Some guys can just fight. No MMA required.

I wish you would stop putting everything about competition Wing Chun against competition MMA. There is no such thing.

Who would win out of Tyson and Ali??? Another stupid pointless question but rages on and on and on.

You could probably pick two guys from this forum and ask them to fight. One may win in the club/ring but lose out on the pavement. How do you know? You never will!



I'm yet to see any good VT sparring on YouTube. You have more chance of finding rocking horse sh8t!



You are right and the fact that most threads turn into garbage is boring now don't you think. Better to leave the keyboard and go face to face if anything is to be sorted out. Otherwise its just pixels on a screen.

It would help if anything you said makes sense in the first place.

Of course street fights are different they can be easier or if unlucky much much harder. I have seen fights last a lot longer when the guys can fight.

My point on Mma is not that you must do it and be able to beat Mma fighters to have good wing Chun. My point is how does the training in the clip bring you to the point where you could hold your own. As it didn't look like they could.

Power and strength - yes I have a good understanding if structure and power so I can see it and I know the style well so I can see it. Before you start you don't know my system.

Blind side someone ? Lol of course you may get Ko d . Point is what?

I'm not saying I am the toughest guy or can Ko everyone . Where did I sat that ? Again projection fears lol

I just like training. I like working out. I like developing myself in the real world with like minded people.

I have over time been lucky enough to have great teachers and students that push me to be better as we train in a way that encourages that

[Alan Orr]

You guys that train wing Chun and grappling know what I can asking when it comes to Mma. We know the street is different blah blah blah

But we know the truth is you need to be training to take the rough with smooth.

I just finish 3 hours training 1 hour chi Sao 1 hour wrestling and bjj then we did 1 hour Mma sparring using our wing Chun with boxing gloves and wrestling and bjj on the ground.

I was with my pro fighter josh he's 24 and 5-1 semi pro 2-0 pro and we had a great time. We both gave punched and took punched we both hit takedown and hit sweeps. We both got ground and pounded !

It's just normal training. No winners or losers, just learning via pressure and making our skills robust!

Same again tomorrow. It's no big deal

[Vajramusti]

I delete threads that lose direction anerlich for lack of moderation...Like Frost posting grappling links :confused: :)
I forget sometimes after nearly 30 years doing this VT thing, oh yeah...Years ago I was in L.A. California while doing a USA tour with GM V Kan as his senior instructor and visiting A Fong in arizona, Chris Chan in S.Fran, Kenneth Cheung, and .....Hawkins Cheung..... I remember HC complimented me personally on my bong sao's, chi-sao at an after seminar dinner. This was after watching me and his student R Chu chi-sao....I later had R Chu...Alans teacher, asking me ( privately ) how I turned him in chi-sao , how my bong sao worked, etc...this was all private between me and R Chu during the break in a seminar. H Cheung gave me and a student of V Kan attending , a big explanation of VT alone one night in his school. Great, he was very excited and animated about it.

Oh and M Tyson and me
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the process of an amazing ego tripping name dropping post KG mentions visiting A. Fong in Arizona. So what? So he had his picture taken with Mike Tyson- so what?
Tyson used to live in Phoenix. I have met him before. A son used to train at the gym where Tyson worked out.So waht?

Since KG mentions his visit with A. Fong (my sifu)...what is the implication if any??

KG has it both ways-referring to his skills in his days with V. Kan and then being exposed to
Bayer's "different thinking" after KG and Kan parted ways.PB lives in Germany and KG lives in NYC.apparently a largely long distance relationship.

A. Fong sifu per Kan's request hosted a seminar for him at what was Tuft's school in Tempe and certificates of attendance were sold by Kan in addition to an admission fee. A Fong is courteous to visitors..I chi saoed with Kan..
but my post is NOT about Kan or PB..

KG chi saoed with a female- he had little control over his motions... and bloodied the lip of the female.At that point somebody else I know took KG by the arm and walked him/escorted him without his consent outside. KG on Kan;s request had also done a very stiff chum kiu.
Why all this insecure name dropping by KG?.Really does not do much for reputation.He really should do some self evaluation.

Since KG started his thread he will probably engage in deletions again..

[k gledhill]

Lmao at these replies...to start I was going to reply to Alan then the muppet squad showed up and I couldnt be bothered.
Then Laroux posts a random clip of Tyson, so I showed him my pic :D
Deletions are my moderating a wild west of forums :D

[k gledhill]

So why still the chip on your shoulder Kev?

I've been around TCMA for about 35 years ... interspersed with about 15 in BJJ, and about 5 around MMA ... I don't need to post all these clips or drop all these names to feel secure. Must suck to be you.

No chip, I read Alan using "25 yrs, etc..." to back his opinions on his thinking and meeting various lineages, I threw mine out there for those who might think I am a troll. I have met a lot more but that would be seen as chippy to mention them too.
Hows my spelling and grmor ?

[Graham H]

Nah, we can go lower than this!

It seems you were right. :rolleyes:

[k gledhill]

Snap (well almost) 25 years in TMA, 10 in grappling and MMA, I don’t need to name drop either but I will just this once: one of the threads kevin deleted was about Anderson silva doing wing chun when I pointed out Silva was a Thai and BJJ guy and that’s where his skills come from and then posted clips of him with his coaches (one of whom I know personally) kevin had a hissy fit and deleted the thread…twice lol
He can dish the insults and knowing comments out but cant seem to take it

Umm no, selective recall , you sub-posted links and started your own conversation in a thread completely unrelated to you...um...no moderation = my deletion to clear your random sh6iT, why I delete threads. So far you haven't posted any random clips, keep it up.

[k gledhill]

Okay. I'm not starting a flame war. You are asking so I will just give an opinion and I hope it can be discussed without having go back on about right and wrong wing chun.

I just can't see more that semi demo drill chi sao. Maybe it's the style's trademark. But for me and it is just my view - I feel it lacks connection to the goal of wing chun. Which is dealing with a fight. It seems to much wing chun vs wing chun. Pure drilling. That's okay for beginners, but we never see anything beyond that.

In terms of angles etc it's all okay. But I don't see body structure body in the way I view it. The style doesn't use root in a way that I think it would need to in order to hold stance under tough pressure. I know people will say they will move and hit etc etc. But I am just being honest from the point of view of someone that trains fiighters for MMA, boxing K1. In lacks the natural timing of movement for me. It's good level of drilling of what they do. Chi Sao is just training as people will say. But fighting is not just training. So the training has to offer a skill which works in fighting. If a guy was not that good and throws a punch then yes a set drill can work. But I have seen so much nice drilling fall down as soon as the drill is not in play. A stronger fighter will smash though a weak drill as such.

So instead of attacking my crazy view or reminding me that I just use strength or that I don't know wing chun - lets try something new.

Questions -

What do you think this type of drilling demo style chi sao brings to a fight?

Do you think it will stop a guy using power and strength?

Chi Sao is just a drill? if so why does is it somethings showed with a better guy beating a not so good guy? Not saying that it the wrong thing. But it seems to go against the idea of a drilling skill if that's the case.

Would this sort of training stop a MMA fighter (levels basic guy, good guy, advance guy)?

Please explain the next stage in this style to take this to sparing - as I have seen sparring with head gear etc but that all became a long range in and out trade. Is the goal that? or is the goal to get in and stay in and use infighting skills? As I don't see that in the other clips of this style.

Again we all know we have different views, which is all fine.

I am just asking about stuff that is on my mind when I watch this different view.

It is exactly what you see, I am posting another thread for random clips, its not a hey everyone look at me. Guy's can post their own clips too.

Its not my schools clip so I cant speak for them. If they do bjj in another clip ?? mma too ?? its just one short clip. How hard they spar ???

[k gledhill]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the process of an amazing ego tripping name dropping post KG mentions visiting A. Fong in Arizona. So what? So he had his picture taken with Mike Tyson- so what?
Tyson used to live in Phoenix. I have met him before. A son used to train at the gym where Tyson worked out.So waht?

Since KG mentions his visit with A. Fong (my sifu)...what is the implication if any??

KG has it both ways-referring to his skills in his days with V. Kan and then being exposed to
Bayer's "different thinking" after KG and Kan parted ways.PB lives in Germany and KG lives in NYC.apparently a largely long distance relationship.

A. Fong sifu per Kan's request hosted a seminar for him at what was Tuft's school in Tempe and certificates of attendance were sold by Kan in addition to an admission fee. A Fong is courteous to visitors..I chi saoed with Kan..
but my post is NOT about Kan or PB..

KG chi saoed with a female- he had little control over his motions... and bloodied the lip of the female.At that point somebody else I know took KG by the arm and walked him/escorted him without his consent outside. KG on Kan;s request had also done a very stiff chum kiu.
Why all this insecure name dropping by KG?.Really does not do much for reputation.He really should do some self evaluation.

Since KG started his thread he will probably engage in deletions again..

:confused:..................i was walked outside without my consent ? I hit a "female" ? you need to put down that bong Joy.

[Sihing73]

Kev,

I have undeleted the thread as it does seem a bit unfair that you delete your threads when things do not go as you would like. However, you have no problem jumping into other threads and spouting the "Gospel" of PB.

I will be happy to go through the thread later tonight, when I am home from work, and clean it up a bit, but let's not always try to take our toys and leave the sand box when things do not go as we would like.

[Alan Orr]

No chip, I read Alan using "25 yrs, etc..." to back his opinions on his thinking and meeting various lineages, I threw mine out there for those who might think I am a troll. I have met a lot more but that would be seen as chippy to mention them too.
Hows my spelling and grmor ?

No I am not using 25 years to back up my views. I am using the time spent training in many styles and many martial arts with great teachers. I have guys I have been training for only a few years that would give most people hell.

Whenever you are asked a question you don't like or don't have a god answer for yo try to defect the question away with your unfunny comments or try to delete the whole thread lol now thats funny

[Alan Orr]

It is exactly what you see, I am posting another thread for random clips, its not a hey everyone look at me. Guy's can post their own clips too.

Its not my schools clip so I cant speak for them. If they do bjj in another clip ?? mma too ?? its just one short clip. How hard they spar ???

They are PB guys right?

[Alan Orr]

Best post I've read on here in ages. I'm not making any judgements on whose POV is correct but the post is written in an open, engaging and polite manner. If all posts were like this the forum would be infinitely better.

Many thanks.

[Alan Orr]

Kev,

I have undeleted the thread as it does seem a bit unfair that you delete your threads when things do not go as you would like. However, you have no problem jumping into other threads and spouting the "Gospel" of PB.

I will be happy to go through the thread later tonight, when I am home from work, and clean it up a bit, but let's not always try to take our toys and leave the sand box when things do not go as we would like.

Thank you! Nice to see that people can't just post and run. A forum is for talking.

[anerlich]

Hows my spelling and grmor ?

Still room for improvement, e.g. missing apostrophe - "How's".

You asked.

[anerlich]

Are you trying to say my teacher 20 years ago asked you a question so you must be better? Lol you must need support bro. My teacher is very open minded and will always ask others tons of questions. That's what you do when you meet other styles, then you go away and do what you want.

This is the big wing Chun problem - guys can't even train and talk without someone trying to live off it. Time to grow up and just get on with it.


That is a problem.

At BJJ training last night the head instructor, 3rd degree BB, asked me a technical question. I also quizzed a blue belt on a particular sweep he got me with.

By Kevin's logic, I must be better than the 3rd degree BB but worse than the blue belt. Grossly inaccurate in both cases.

One of the best martial artists I know personally says he ALWAYS goes to seminars and asks the most general and basic questions. You often get an interesting new angle on a subject you thought you knew back to front.

Only in TCMA is keeping secrets and hiding ignorance seen as a good thing. Genuine ignorance isn't your fault. Wilful ignorance certainly is.

[Alan Orr]

That is a problem.

At BJJ training last night the head instructor, 3rd degree BB, asked me a technical question. I also quizzed a blue belt on a particular sweep he got me with.

By Kevin's logic, I must be better than the 3rd degree BB but worse than the blue belt. Grossly inaccurate in both cases.

One of the best martial artists I know personally says he ALWAYS goes to seminars and asks the most general and basic questions. You often get an interesting new angle on a subject you thought you knew back to front.

Only in TCMA is keeping secrets and hiding ignorance seen as a good thing. Genuine ignorance isn't your fault. Wilful ignorance certainly is.

Excellent post!!!! This is martial arts training.

[Vajramusti]

:confused:..................i was walked outside without my consent ? I hit a "female" ? you need to put down that bong Joy.
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Post deleting again?
Some time ago in a different post on a different thread, you had called being taken outside "sumo"
and that your old sifu asked why you did not do anything!!! So your stories can vary. I don't know what bong you use.

[GlennR]

That is a problem.

At BJJ training last night the head instructor, 3rd degree BB, asked me a technical question. I also quizzed a blue belt on a particular sweep he got me with.

By Kevin's logic, I must be better than the 3rd degree BB but worse than the blue belt. Grossly inaccurate in both cases.

One of the best martial artists I know personally says he ALWAYS goes to seminars and asks the most general and basic questions. You often get an interesting new angle on a subject you thought you knew back to front.

Only in TCMA is keeping secrets and hiding ignorance seen as a good thing. Genuine ignorance isn't your fault. Wilful ignorance certainly is.


Yep, spot on Andrew

That's why I've basically walked away from the whole TCMA thing, I'd hang in there for the "secret techniques" if I thought there was any. But there isn't

Give me a group of guys willing to train hard, ask questions, drop egos and work together to get results and I'll stay there.

And TCMA seems to have lost that

[GlennR]

It seems you were right. :rolleyes:

Seems I was

[Vajramusti]

Yep, spot on Andrew

That's why I've basically walked away from the whole TCMA thing, I'd hang in there for the "secret techniques" if I thought there was any. But there isn't

Give me a group of guys willing to train hard, ask questions, drop egos and work together to get results and I'll stay there.

And TCMA seems to have lost that
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FWIW IMO-in a serious subject there can be distinctions between 3 things...

1. deliberately keeping a secret- usually not a good idea,

2. obfuscating with an air of mysticism- a bad idea

3. things becoming or being made clearer as one progresses -an understandable phenomenon

[GlennR]

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FWIW IMO-in a serious subject there can be distinctions between 3 things...

1. deliberately keeping a secret- usually not a good idea,

2. obfuscating with an air of mysticism- a bad idea

3. things becoming or being made clearer as one progresses -an understandable phenomenon

All 3 are a fair call joy.

I'll be honest, as I get older I think more like you , WC really has spread way to far and really was intended for the select few.

That's why this forum has such varying and entertaining opinions ;)

[anerlich]

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FWIW IMO-in a serious subject there can be distinctions between 3 things...

1. deliberately keeping a secret- usually not a good idea,

2. obfuscating with an air of mysticism- a bad idea

3. things becoming or being made clearer as one progresses -an understandable phenomenon

Yeah, fair call from a teaching perspective.

My argument is with people too proud or afraid to ask questions, those who think they have nothing more to learn, and those who judge askers of questions as ignorant, misguided, disrespectful or threatening.

[anerlich]

I'd hang in there for the "secret techniques" if I thought there was any.

The secret techniques are hard work, sweat, and healthy living.

And, probably, sparring/rolling/whatever with people that are better than you as often as possible.

[GlennR]

The secret techniques are hard work, sweat, and healthy living.

And, probably, sparring/rolling/whatever with people that are better than you as often as possible.

Yeh, I worked the secret technique out for myself.

And not probably regarding people better than .... I'd say definitely

[Frost]

LMAO first he says he won’t respond to Alan because the Muppet brigade have joined the thread, then he types a detailed response to alan and all the said muppets individually (if we get a choice can I be Animal please?) and then deletes the thread right after writing the responses so people cant respond to him, how childish is this guy??

Anyway good call on the mods for undeleting it

As for the whole secrets and secrecy bit, I like Glenn left TCMA because of this and people claiming to know it all and not being confident to admit when they didn’t, the only reason I went back into TCMA was because I found a coach who (although he has over 3 decades in TCMA under a very well-known master and before that was already a sifu in hung gar and winh chun) is still happy to put on a white belt and take up training in Judo and BJJ, attend the local MMA club, and try out any seminar (TCMA< Hapanese, MMA) and gathering going to learn something new. If it wasn’t for him I would have never bothered with this stuff again

[k gledhill]

I give up, let the muppets rule...:D

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/EL_rzCDbEms

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/N7UFmWjsCBo

[JPinAZ]

Kev,

I have undeleted the thread as it does seem a bit unfair that you delete your threads when things do not go as you would like. However, you have no problem jumping into other threads and spouting the "Gospel" of PB.

I will be happy to go through the thread later tonight, when I am home from work, and clean it up a bit, but let's not always try to take our toys and leave the sand box when things do not go as we would like.

Guess I was right. Kev, let go the ego man.. it's really pathetic.


Besides that, I don't really see the point. To be blunt, you'll just end up getting your panties in a wad and delete this thread within a few days just like you've to most others when they don't go the way you like. ;)