Punching Art

[YouKnowWho]

If punching art, what else do you need besides:

1. jab,
2. cross,
3. uppercut,
4. hook (haymaker)?

Of course you can add

5. hammer fist,
6. back fist,
7. side strike (XingYi Heng Chuan),
8. curve strike (Mantis Ha Chuan).

But how often will you use 5, 6, 7, and 8?

What's your opinion on this?

[MightyB]

5. You see hammer fist used more and more. Especially when you need to soften up a downed opponent for ground work or to break a guard / half guard situation. Standing not so much, but I think that's a matter of not enough exposure and training to the technique - not a measure of effectiveness or strategic preference.

8. is being used more and more - and it's resulted in some KO's, it's always been part of old school boxing though - I believe they called it a winging knuckle punch. It's also one that's not being used only because of lack of training and exposure. Not effectiveness.

[MasterKiller]

Jab
Cross
Lead Hook
Rear Hook
Lead Uppercut
Rear Uppercut
Rear Overhand
Spinning Backfist


Even if you want to change the hand formation, the delivery remains the same.

I only teach hammer fists for ground fighting.

[Orion Paximus]

Only a fool limits his tools. Train all fist and leg techniques and you may be lucky enough to have something in your box your opponent doesn't.

[MasterKiller]

Only a fool limits his tools. Train all fist and leg techniques and you may be lucky enough to have something in your box your opponent doesn't.

This is foolish. Get really good at 6 punches, 5 kicks, 12 throws, and 8 submissions, and you can beat 95% of anyone anywhere.

The other 5%, you probably wouldn't beat, regardless of what you know.

[Frost]

This is foolish. Get really good at 6 punches, 5 kicks, 12 throws, and 8 submissions, and you can beat 95% of anyone anywhere.

The other 5%, you probably wouldn't beat, regardless of what you know.

This is sound advice, and I agree with both this comment and MKs list of punches, I would personally also train the hammerfist for standing (but that’s because one of the arts I train is lung ying and it’s a big part of that style) but truth be told 9 times out of 10 I use jab cross uppercut overhand and hook (close and long range) and that’s it

Hell you can mess most people up with just using jab cross

[sanjuro_ronin]

You strike OUT, you strike UP, you strike DOWN, you strike BACK and you strike "AROUND".
How you do that is up to you of course.
I prefer:
Jab
Cross
hook
uppercut
And variations there of.
Hammerfist and backfist I do as well.
I once smashed a guy in the occipital area and he went down fast (hammer fist).
I have noticed that the back fist can be used as a jab from some good angles but also can be used as a "smasher" to the ribs really well.

[YouKnowWho]

Assume we use the following 6 punches:

1. jab,
2. cross,
3. uppercut,
4. hook,
5. back fist,
6. hammer fist.

If we also include the following 4 kicks:

7. front kick,
8. houndhouse kick,
9. side kick,
10. spin hook kick.

Does this pretty much cover the "striking art"? The number "10" sound like a good number.

[MightyB]

Assume we use the following 6 punches:

- jab,
- cross,
- uppercut,
- hook,
- back fist,
- hammer fist.

If we also include the following 4 kicks:

- front kick,
- houndhouse kick,
- side kick,
- spin hook kick.

Does this pretty much cover the "striking art"? The number "10" sound like a good number.

Pretty much. Ad a catchkick, clinch, headlock throw, and hip toss and you have basic san shou.

[SevenStar]

Assume we use the following 6 punches:

1. jab,
2. cross,
3. uppercut,
4. hook,
5. back fist,
6. hammer fist.

If we also include the following 4 kicks:

7. front kick,
8. houndhouse kick,
9. side kick,
10. spin hook kick.

Does this pretty much cover the "striking art"? The number "10" sound like a good number.

why the spinning hook? what about elbows and knees? no palm strikes?

[SevenStar]

Only a fool limits his tools. Train all fist and leg techniques and you may be lucky enough to have something in your box your opponent doesn't.

“I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.” - Bruce Lee

many good judoka only really practice 8 throws - one for each direction - even though judo has many throwing techniques.

in mma venues, which striking arts have the most success? boxing & Thai boxing, even despite their limited toolbox.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The reason that a system has many techniques is so that the practitioners can find the right ones for them.
People come in all shapes, sizes and "attitudes" and what works for A may not work for B and what works for B may not work for C.

[MasterKiller]

Assume we use the following 6 punches:

1. jab,
2. cross,
3. uppercut,
4. hook,
5. back fist,
6. hammer fist.

If we also include the following 4 kicks:

7. front kick,
8. houndhouse kick,
9. side kick,
10. spin hook kick.

Does this pretty much cover the "striking art"? The number "10" sound like a good number.

I teach these kicks:


Lead leg push kick (Teep)
Rear leg push kick (te)
Lead leg side kick
Rear leg side kick
Lead leg roundhouse (muay thai style)
Rear leg roundhouse (muay thai style)
Rear leg spinning side kick

[YouKnowWho]

why the spinning hook? what about elbows and knees? no palm strikes?
The back kick is similiar to the side kick. IMO, the hook kick is only good for point sparring. The spinning hook kick does have knock down power.

Of course we can add elbows and knees. As far as the palm, if it travels the same path as the punch, it can be combined with the punch.

[YouKnowWho]

I teach these kicks:


Lead leg push kick (Teep)
Rear leg push kick (te)
Lead leg side kick
Rear leg side kick
Lead leg roundhouse (muay thai style)
Rear leg roundhouse (muay thai style)
Rear leg spinning side kick


When you talk about "rear leg side kick", are you talking about spin back kick? If you have right leg forward, to spin to your left make sense. To spin to your right and side kick your back left leg just doesn't make sense to me. The longfist system also has that spin to the right back leg side kick. I have never used that in sparring. Your opponent can see that coming to easily.

[SPJ]

If punching art, what else do you need besides:

1. jab,
2. cross,
3. uppercut,
4. hook (haymaker)?

What's your opinion on this?

In Tong Bei;

We use open hand or palm to strike.

Palm side/face, palm back and side.

1 Pi

2. Tan

3. shuai

---

[JamesC]

I never was a fan of the side kick. Never was good with it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I never was a fan of the side kick. Never was good with it.

Its a stop kick or a finisher.
Once drove a guy through a wall with it, very cool but got reamed by management.
Still, it stopped the group altercation before it got worse.

[David Jamieson]

Straight punches.

Punch in straight lines. I guarantee you'll deliver more hits to the target when you do this.

[MasterKiller]

When you talk about "rear leg side kick", are you talking about spin back kick? If you have right leg forward, to spin to your left make sense. To spin to your right and side kick your back left leg just doesn't make sense to me. The longfist system also has that spin to the right back leg side kick. I have never used that in sparring. Your opponent can see that coming to easily.

No, not a spinning kick. We fight out of a left-leg forward stance. So it's a Right Leg sidekick. Generally, it's my least favorite kick, but I just like them to train it for symmetry.

I do teach the spinning side kick, also, though.

I generally teach my students to use Lead Leg Push Kick, Lead Leg Sidekick, Rear Leg Roundhouse, and Rear Leg Spinning Back kick for the majority of their kicking attacks.

[SevenStar]

No, not a spinning kick. We fight out of a left-leg forward stance. So it's a Right Leg sidekick. Generally, it's my least favorite kick, but I just like them to train it for symmetry.

I do teach the spinning side kick, also, though.

I generally teach my students to use Lead Leg Push Kick, Lead Leg Sidekick, Rear Leg Roundhouse, and Rear Leg Spinning Back kick for the majority of their kicking attacks.

same. in addition, I also teach the switch kick.

[Kellen Bassette]

IMO, the hook kick is only good for point sparring.

Horse donk. Lead hook kick is very powerful. Land it on the jaw and it's easy to drop someone. It's also a very unexpected kick. It gives the illusion you missed with a side kick.

[MasterKiller]

Horse donk. Lead hook kick is very powerful. Land it on the jaw and it's easy to drop someone. It's also a very unexpected kick. It gives the illusion you missed with a side kick.

I guess. I find it gimmicky. Some people can do a 'Brazilian' kick, too, but I wouldn't teach it to everyone.

[JamesC]

Its a stop kick or a finisher.
Once drove a guy through a wall with it, very cool but got reamed by management.
Still, it stopped the group altercation before it got worse.

Right. I know how to use it. Its just something I never really liked. My buddy that trained in San da was brutal with it. He could sneak it in there before I knew it was coming. Which is one of the best parts about it.

[goju]

Horse donk. Lead hook kick is very powerful. Land it on the jaw and it's easy to drop someone. It's also a very unexpected kick. It gives the illusion you missed with a side kick.

It can also be used to the leg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1nC62kgsbWU#!

[Kellen Bassette]

I guess. I find it gimmicky. Some people can do a 'Brazilian' kick, too, but I wouldn't teach it to everyone.

It's not for everyone. It takes longer to develop for some people and some have a hard time getting power with it. Others come more naturally to it and can really rock the pads/bags with it. I can tell you from experience though, a well placed lead hook will drop someone as fast as a high round kick.

[Kellen Bassette]

It can also be used to the leg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1nC62kgsbWU#!

That was nice knee..:eek:

One of my senseis who fought Kyokushin worked a nasty spinning hook to the thigh...I never had much success with that technique myself though.

[YouKnowWho]

We fight out of a left-leg forward stance. So it's a Right Leg sidekick. Generally, it's my least favorite kick, but I just like them to train it for symmetry.

I don't like to spend any more training time on that kick. The way that I look at it is, if I have never used it before, I probably will never use it for the rest of my life, why should I waste any of my valuable training in it.

[taai gihk yahn]

a good hook kick can rock ur world: I once got nailed in the back of the head as I lunged in with a straight lead - guy leaned back and unloaded it, knocked my mouth piece out and when he asked me if I was ok, I replied, "yewth Im fwineth"...

[bawang]

I guess. I find it gimmicky. Some people can do a 'Brazilian' kick, too, but I wouldn't teach it to everyone.

its not about fancy new techniques and gimmicks, its about avoiding rythm, breaking rythm. once you start doing 1-2 1-2s your opponent will time it and set up a knockout. in northern kung fu rythm is number one forbidden habit.

thats why its so dangerous to fight muay thai guys by their own rules. once they get comfortable and set up rythm ur finished.

[YouKnowWho]

Here are 2 short kicking clips. We can see how Bruce Lee had influenced TCMA back in the 70th.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBcNZwXvseQ&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSyCu8MG9i4

[SevenStar]

a good hook kick can rock ur world: I once got nailed in the back of the head as I lunged in with a straight lead - guy leaned back and unloaded it, knocked my mouth piece out and when he asked me if I was ok, I replied, "yewth Im fwineth"...

an axe kick can rock you too. so can a jump spinning crescent kick. but you also have a high probability of getting dumped on your tush. that said, I use the hook in sparring, but I don't teach it and I've never used one in a fight, either real or competition. I use it in a "gimmicky" way - just to show the person that I can kick them in the head from any angle I choose.

[sanjuro_ronin]

That was nice knee..:eek:

One of my senseis who fought Kyokushin worked a nasty spinning hook to the thigh...I never had much success with that technique myself though.

Spinning hook kicks and spinning crescent kicks to the thigh were made popular by the late, great Andy Hug.
Still taught in Kyokushin because of Him.

[Frost]

Spinning hook kicks and spinning crescent kicks to the thigh were made popular by the late, great Andy Hug.
Still taught in Kyokushin because of Him.

RIP a sad loss