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Hendrik
02-26-2013, 09:42 AM
IMHO, by evidence we do have a clear view on the outline of wing Chun since 1850.

There are six area which the outline cover, and the six areas are, physical and mind handling, breathing and qi handling, change of force and momentum handling.

Via the signatures of these area, we can learn about different aspect of the particular lineage compare with the common denominator of the wing Chun 1850 reference.

So, there is. No secret, no mystery, and it is actually pretty straightforward lay out. The issue is there are areas which the western world are not exposed to yet , thus, it has to take sometimes to get expose to.

We know today, what is very likely, by evidence wing Chun kuen is a semiprivate art passed to the red boat within close family, then spread into the red boat opera uprising member who also the triad member since early 1800, then after 1855 the burning of the red boat opera fine Jade association, the single long set system was reorganized into the three sets system. Where the internal art was defocus but the combat applications are put on sport light. That is to use the art to vengeance the killed red boat opera members by the betrayers who sold them off to Qing gorvenment, who practice the long bridge southern art, which is very likely the Choy lee fut. this is not against CLF but due to the long term exposure of Choy lee fut to the public since 1840 to 1855, some insider betrayer were train in Choy lee fut. So, WCK capture center momentum is used as a bunker missile to penetrate right into them.

By evidence, Wingchunkuen is not from shaolin temple, and the story of the burning of shaolin temple and how the elderly create the sets are actually telling the story of the burning of the fine jade red boat opera association in 1855, and the re organization of the single set system into the three sets system for the purpose of counter the betrayers , who is using the long bridge southern art which today we know it is extremely likely CLF. That is also the reason of wing Chun ner and CLF ner doesn't get along well after the 1855 incident. However, wing Chun and CLF are Allie at the begining of the uprising and still Allie at the end of the uprising.

Also, in history of china in this era, we do know and have identify certain Qing commander who is in fact betrayer, who was first a hung mun member then switch side.

Thus, via the signature of the six areas, history evidence....etc. we do know WCK , we can verify the likely of the lineage claims.

We today know of wing Chun kuen by evidence and signatutes of these six areas, and also we do know the lack or further evolution of these six areas. With these the future evolution of WCK can be study.


So, the value of new lineages found, if they are real red boat 1850 lineages, they will provide more signatures to complete or confirm the six areas. If they are not older lineages but modern evolution, their signatures in the six areas will indicate that. We do have this type of ability today.

Hendrik
02-26-2013, 05:06 PM
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1214401&postcount=35


As we can see above, in the Red boat era or atleast with 1890 Snake Crane Wing Chun documentary, Tan Sau is a snake technic. Tong Kiu is a Crane technic. These are different technics with different applications. instead of many today called them Tan or High Tan. or simply get rid of the Tan but leave only High Tan.

This also brought up the legend of Tan Sau Ng which is rised by Pan Nam and then endose by Ip Chun decade ago. So, which is the Tan Sau of Tan Sau Ng who claim to be the master of Tan Sau?


if it is Tan sau as the snake hand above, that is the technology of Emei snake. if it is the Tong Kiu, it is actually the Zhao Yang of Fujian White Crane. Both Tan Sau existed in the pre 1900 Siu lin/Nim tau set from different red boat era WCK lineages.

the Tan Sau above is located in the one tan three fook section. while the Tong Kiu or Zhao Yang is in the end of the Siu Lin/nim Tau set.


Thus, technologically, based on the Red Boat era WCK technics and the content of Siu lin/nim tau set. the legend of Tan Sau Ng, doesnt hold. the above two technics, the Tong Kiu and the Tan Sau could be trace to both Fujian white Crane and Emei snake. but not Shao lin. none of the Shao Lin has this type of technology for the past 1000 years in the TCMA history.

I would love to see any one could pin point which Shao Lin has this type of technology, if one know where. and open to accept it. however, in the mean time, we can trace these to emei and fujian. and via these, the legend of Tan Sau Ng doesnt hold. Tan Sau Ng is a Red boat opera member however the rest of the claim address by Pan Nam has no evidence to support.

not to mention we now know, the split of single set system of WCK to the three set system happen in the 1855 era. and thus in early 1800, WCK in the red boat is a single set system, as we could heard the story from different older lineages such as Leong Jan's and other lineages.

Thus, again, there is no three sets system WCK in the early 1800 but a single set system WCK passing by the Leung family to their close family and then to the opera member. IE Leung BOk Lau to Leung Lan Kwai, then to Wang wah Po, Yik Kam, Lo Man kung, Leung Jan...ect. and these are not a big group.


Certainly, I am open to being proven wrong. however, the evidence based on different WCK lineages are telling the above story. collective evidence from different Red Boat era WCK lineages are a better picture. as I always say, show your evidence if you have. so other can learn from you.