Fallon Fox

[GeneChing]

I've been waiting for this one. It has already happened in Muay Thai, but then, if you know anything about Thailand, that was to be expected sooner. We've discussed Gay MMA (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50501) (where you people couldn't stay civil enough to not get it locked down) and there was some discussion of Liz Carmouche's orientation on the RR thread (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1208935#post1208935), and of course, the MMA Gay porn thread (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63192) :rolleyes:, but transgender is a little different.


Posted: Tue March 5, 2013 5:30PM; Updated: Tue March 5, 2013 6:05PM
Loretta Hunt>INSIDE MMA
Transgender MMA fighter Fallon Fox faces licensing problems (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mma/news/20130305/fallon-fox-transgender-mma/)

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/dam/assets/130305080517-fallon-fox-t1b-single-image-cut.jpg
Fallon Fox (center) won her professional debut at a King of the Cage event in Idaho last May.
Photo courtesy of Fallon Fox

Fallon Fox is bracing herself for controversy, and as the first on-record transgender female fighter in mixed martial arts, she's going to get plenty of it.

On Monday, the 37-year-old Fox (2-0) revealed exclusively to SI.com that she's a transgender fighter -- the first on record, male or female, to compete in the combat sport. Fox won her second professional bout with a 39-second knockout (via knee) last Saturday at Championship Fighting Alliance 10 in Coral Gables, Fla.

Fox, who underwent gender reassignment surgery in 2006 along with the supplemental hormonal therapy, is scheduled to fight again for the CFA on April 20 in the semifinals of its eight-woman featherweight tournament. However, Fox's license approval is now under investigation with Florida's Dept. of Business and Professional Regulation.

"Our department is currently investigating allegations pertaining to the information provided on [Fox's] application," wrote Sandi Copes Poreda, Director of Communications for the DBPR, which oversees the Florida State Boxing Commission.

On her application, a copy of which was provided to SI.com, Fox stated that she held an MMA combatant's license issued in 2013 by the California State Athletic Commission. However, CSAC Executive Director Andy Foster confirmed that Fox's application for licensure was still under review, though the fighter and her manager, Brett Atchley, believed she had received notice of her licensure in the mail in late February. Licensure secured in other jurisdictions -- particularly in a key state like California -- can weigh heavily on a regulatory body's review of a new applicant's information.

In addition, Fox admits she did not disclose her transgender history, and presumably the pertaining medical documents that would have accompanied her Florida application, because she was not asked to.

In response to inquiries regarding Fox's transgender status or if she was obligated to disclose it, Poreda wrote, "The Florida State Boxing Commission is in the process of updating the rules for professional MMA events and this topic will be included in an upcoming workshop on changes to the administrative rules."

Fox claims her CSAC-issued combatant's license was mailed to her approximately two weeks ago, after she'd spoken with a CSAC representative via phone and submitted an application packet containing the required medical paperwork, as well as a detailed history of her transgender-related surgeries.

CSAC Executive Officer Foster said the state agency had only mailed Fox a receipt for the initial $60 application -- the standard procedure for all athletes who file for licensure consideration. In addition, Foster said that Fox also applied for a national identification card with his office and that approval was also still pending. The card is a second requirement of athletes wishing to compete within most North American jurisdictions, as it connects the fighter's records to a central database those commissions can collectively review. Fox stated she'd been granted the card in Florida. However, the DBPR said this second application was still pending.

"I think it's imperative to remember that the Florida commission allowed this fight, not the California commission," said Foster. "California merely received and is processing the application. We're working on the necessary medical reviews. We simply have an application."

Following his initial review of Fox's packet, Foster said both he and the CSAC's medical review board would require additional documentation from the athlete during its forthcoming vetting process, though he said Fox would be afforded the same opportunity to provide this information as any other applicant.

According to Foster, the CSAC did not receive any inquiries from the Florida regulatory body regarding Fox's purported licensure in California. Foster was initially unaware of Fox's first communication with the CSAC office through another official.

"CSAC staff handled this without notifying me of the unusual circumstances," said Foster. "Because this is the first of its kind situation, this matter should have been referred to me for review under the commission's medical review panel, which ultimately makes a decision in how to proceed in a case like this. I'm taking appropriate actions to make sure this protocol is followed next time."

For her pro debut in May 2012, Fox fought in Idaho for the King of the Cage promotion, which franchises its brand worldwide to multiple, non-affiliated promoters at any given time. Fox said the bout, which she won by first-round stoppage, took place on sovereign land, which is exempt from state oversight. Fox said she was only required to submit bloodwork and take a pregnancy test, and was unsure if she'd done so under the promotion itself or an overseeing body assigned by the Coeur D'Alene Native American Tribe. Fox's three previous amateur bouts, all won by first-round submission, were held in Illinois, where she is a resident.

[Brule]

Can't wait to see Midget MMA next...

[Lucas]

So dude chopped of the sausage and now fights a bunch of girls? I don't really think thats fair.

[sanjuro_ronin]

How did I know Lucas would comment on this thread?
:D

[Lucas]

lol!!! you have me pegged! :eek:

[MightyB]

Now I know where
http://www.besound.com/aod/chewyh.gif
come from.

[Scott R. Brown]

lol!!! you have me pegged! :eek:

At least you still have a peg!

[GeneChing]

Can't wait to see Midget MMA next... Not me personally, mind you, but there's already a thread here and a websearch will provide more.

Dwarf Cage Fighting (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47473)

[Lucas]

Now I know where
http://www.besound.com/aod/chewyh.gif
come from.

ya that is not a boy dog any longer. thats why snausages have the little pink tip sticking out.

[Oso]

lol, i was just coming here to check if this had made it here yet.

hasn't the IOC been sorta dealing with this for decades as far as determining gender by chromosone's?

I've not looked, and i'm not tonight.

[GeneChing]

Good point about the IOC, Oso. This is a point of contention in many other sports. I guess that by this barometer, MMA has arrived. ;)

Dispelling the mischaracterizations of Fallon Fox (http://espn.go.com/espnw/commentary/9026822/espnw-dispelling-mischaracterizations-mixed-martial-arts-fighter-fallon-fox)
Mar 7, 2013 2:32 PM ET | By Melissa Isaacson
Transgender MMA Fighter's License Under Review

Florida State Boxing Commission officials are reviewing the license of Fallon Fox after learning she is a transgender female.Tags: MMA, Fallon Fox, Franklin McNeil, Michele Steele, Transgender, Championship Fighting Alliance

If Brett Atchley could transmit sweat by phone, there would have been a fine film covering the earpierce. It was that kind of a day, the kind of hectic that one imagines could only be experienced by the agent of a transgender mixed martial arts fighter who just outed herself and was now trying to salvage her career.

It sure didn't seem fair.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0306/mma_e_fox11_300.jpg
Rolando de la Fuente/Championship Fighting AllianceFallon Fox has a 5-0 record with all of her victories coming in the first round.

Less than a week ago, Fallon Fox was living her life the way she no doubt envisioned, as the woman she always felt she was born to be, enjoying and excelling in her sport as a fledgling pro at age 37. The next thing she knew, she was huddling with Atchley and his lawyer trying to figure out through whom and how they were going to tell the world that, before 2006, she was a man.

Earlier Wednesday, Fox's fight promoter described her as "heartbroken" at the series of events following her knockout of Ericka Newsome 39 seconds into their bout in Coral Gables, Fla., on Saturday night. Jorge De La Nova, CEO for Championship Fighting Alliance, said Fox called him Sunday morning and apologized.

"Jorge," Fox told him, "I'd go to the gym for the last six years and everyone treated me as a woman. I didn't want to have to go around and tell everyone different."

De La Nova said he never knew about Fox's past. Atchley did and said he expected this day would come, but not necessarily in the way it did, when a "rogue reporter," as he put it, who knew Fox from her previous life, began nosing around and asking questions after the fight. Atchley decided to go to another reporter, a longtime friend who writes for SI.com, and tell her that Fox had undergone gender reassignment surgery more than six years earlier.

They certainly should have expected the firestorm that followed, but De La Nova said he was a bit overwhelmed as calls from other fighters flooded his office.

"It has gotten to the point where some are saying, 'I'm fighting her in the next round. Am I fighting a male or female? What's the deal?'" De La Nova said.

By late Wednesday, according to Atchley, Fox had steeled herself and was "focused" on how to tell people her intentions. Or perhaps, better stated, what they are not.

"People are focusing on the MMA part," Atchley said, "but to those of us inside her circle, the fact that she's an MMA fighter is not important."

What was important, they said, was to somehow correct the mischaracterizations.

"The contention for Fallon seems to be people characterizing her as dishonest and manipulating, that she somehow manifested her destiny by saying, 'I'm going to have this operation and then I'm going to be a fighter and world champion,'" Atchley said. "I just posed this to [someone], that if a physician walked up to you and said, 'I'm going to remove your testicles and ***** and this will take care of your cancer, what would you choose?' He said it was a perplexing question. I said I knew what I'd choose. I'd take my chances against cancer. So the idea that she has an agenda [is ridiculous]."

The inner circle strategized, and what they came up with was that Fox would not do any more interviews until this weekend "on a major national platform," according to Atchley, which will amount to a cable news channel's Saturday morning programming.

Unfortunately, the task of educating people in a culture that still largely does not grasp the possibility that there are those among us born with certain predispositions over which they have no control will not be easy.

Foremost is this notion that it is unfair, because some would believe Fox's opponents are still fighting against a man. And even in the medical community, you will receive different opinions. There are those who say estrogen therapy diminishes testosterone levels after about one year, and there is no evidence to suggest that transitioned athletes would be at an advantage or disadvantage over those non-transitioned men and women. Others contend that genetic testing will always detect birth gender and muscle mass, depending on the sport and age of the athlete, could be an advantage for someone like Fox.

While the Florida and California boxing commissions decide whether Fox's license application is valid, De La Nova said he has no doubts about Fox, who is 5-0 as a professional, with all of her victories coming in the first round.

"As a promoter, obviously everyone who comes into my office, what I see is a fighter," he said. "I don't ask anyone what their sexual preference is. What they do with their personal life is not my business. She's a sweet girl. ... And where we stand as a company is that she's a female. She has her [boxing] license in Illinois. She has an Illinois driver's license [as a female]. She's a female, and she's definitely a fighter. I just don't see how anybody can revoke her license."

But just as Fox's team tries to make their case, Newsome's coach and manager is furious, "and not about what you think I am."

Matt Hambleton is petitioning the Florida State Athletic Commission on several grounds, contending Saturday's fight was stopped too soon. But he is far angrier at what he calls a series of deceptions by Fox and Atchley, as well as careless screening by the Florida and California commissions that allowed Fox to compete against his fighter without a valid license or medical clearance.

"Here's a person who lies on their application -- by saying you're a healthy female with a normal menstrual cycle, you're lying -- who says she has a license when she doesn't," Hambleton said. "It doesn't matter to me what background you come from, whether you're black, white, gay, straight or transgender. When you step into the ring against one of my athletes with no medical clearance, you're endangering my athlete, every other fighter out there and hurting the sport you say you love.

"And now," he added, "I think she's playing the woe-is-me card."

Atchley said Fox's lasting emotion Wednesday was "positive or negative, a great sense of relief."

"Anyone knows when you carry something around and can't talk about it, you will deteriorate mentally, physically and emotionally," he said. "That, in and of itself, makes this a relief. She's dealing with what came around."

And odds are she has guaranteed she will continue to deal with it.

[Lucas]

http://www.lolbrary.com/lolpics/916/dude-looks-like-a-lady-3916.jpg

[bawang]

if ronnie coleman turn into woman, he would be undefeatable under heaven.

[Brule]

Not me personally, mind you, but there's already a thread here and a websearch will provide more.

Dwarf Cage Fighting (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47473)

I missed that one.....Now i don't want to know what's next :o

[Oso]

her genetic footprint will not change no matter how much estrogen therapy she takes.

i don't think you can erase the basic fact that she was born male.

i think she will always have an advantage over women her same weight.

maybe make her fight both men and women her own weight class?

allow her to fight but against volunteers? don't make it mandatory for another women to have to fight her?

[GeneChing]

I missed that one.....Now i don't want to know what's next :o

How about Battle Royales like WWE? Sixteen fighters in the cage! I saw a live 16-man Battle Royale once, back in the day. It was freaking sweet. :)

[MasterKiller]

I'm hoping for MMA with weapons...just like in the movies
Dog Brothers.

[GeneChing]

That's more like the Kimbo Slice of the MMW (mixed martial weapons) world. ;)

[doug maverick]

So dude chopped of the sausage and now fights a bunch of girls? I don't really think thats fair.

actually the sausage is not chopped off. the balls are..then the sausage is sliced in half and inverted to look like a *****(i filmed the surgery for a doc im working on..and just thought i should burn that image into everyone's mind as it will forever be burned in mine)

now here is the thing..im a big supporter of gay rights, and the lgbtq community HOWEVER...i think she will have a genetic advantage over the other woman in her weight class. because her body will never fully suppress the amount of testosterone she uses..add to that the fact that most female fighters Use it anyways. but thats just a strength advantage... as we all know being strong doesnt make you a good fighter.. george foreman was WAY stronger then muhammid ali..and we saw who won that fight right? being born a man won't make her a better skilled fighter. so let her fight.


its funny i started writing this thinking one thing.. but then i thought bruce lee and muhammid ali and many other great fighters who fought stronger opponents and won..and im like she doesnt have that much of an advantage.

[Oso]

cnn interview with her (http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c3#/video/us/2013/03/09/nr-weekend-intv-transgender-mma-fighter.cnn)

so, she didn't start mma till after her reassignment surgury...not sure what that speaks to

[Oso]

actually the sausage is not chopped off. the balls are..then the sausage is sliced in half and inverted to look like a *****(i filmed the surgery for a doc im working on..and just thought i should burn that image into everyone's mind as it will forever be burned in mine)

now here is the thing..im a big supporter of gay rights, and the lgbtq community HOWEVER...i think she will have a genetic advantage over the other woman in her weight class. because her body will never fully suppress the amount of testosterone she uses..add to that the fact that most female fighters Use it anyways. but thats just a strength advantage... as we all know being strong doesnt make you a good fighter.. george foreman was WAY stronger then muhammid ali..and we saw who won that fight right? being born a man won't make her a better skilled fighter. so let her fight.


its funny i started writing this thinking one thing.. but then i thought bruce lee and muhammid ali and many other great fighters who fought stronger opponents and won..and im like she doesnt have that much of an advantage.

but, it's still not apples vs. apples.

other side of the coin: does anyone think a transgenderd male (female to male) would ever want to fight against guys? i think the same genetics apply the other way: no one born a female will ever be as strong as a male of the same weight. (all else being equal: same training regime, etc)

...hmmm...why wouldn't the drug protocols/hormone therapy that a transgender fighter has to be on immediatly disqualify them from fighting pro anyways?

[David Jamieson]

Get transgendered, then start a career in mma?

Does that seem off to anyone else but me?

Oh wait..it does.

yeah, well, lets see what comes of this.

[Oso]

Get transgendered, then start a career in mma?

Does that seem off to anyone else but me?

Oh wait..it does.

yeah, well, lets see what comes of this.

yes...yes it does.

the only other question in my mind is what is his/her chromosonal makeup? xx, xy or one of a myriad of other combinations?

everyone has a right to do what they want..until it can negatively affect someone else. i think it's ridiculous for anyone to think 'she' won't have a physical advantage and while strength/speed is only part of the equation, it IS part of the equation.

[David Jamieson]

yes...yes it does.

the only other question in my mind is what is his/her chromosonal makeup? xx, xy or one of a myriad of other combinations?

everyone has a right to do what they want..until it can negatively affect someone else. i think it's ridiculous for anyone to think 'she' won't have a physical advantage and while strength/speed is only part of the equation, it IS part of the equation.

Well, they could always start a transgender mma league for m>w and another for w>m.

that way, at least the weigh ins and stats actually count for something.

the muscle mass and power will still be high in the transgender man>woman. The estrogen doesn't make you a woman, it masks your manliness more than anything. I'm sure someone understands the process better.

But, putting plastic boobies in and cutting your meat and two veg off doesn't make you a woman by default. Physically you are still male in many respects.

So to that end, a transgender man will have an advantage in a ring over a natural born female.

I could be wrong and would be open and willing to have it explained and proven to me that I am wrong.

[Lucas]

no you're absolutely right. obviously (get ready for it) he wasnt man enough to fight other men.

badabing!

[GeneChing]

I'm not sure that this "makes liberals rejoice", but maybe it does. Who supports MMA more, liberals or conservatives? John McCain was conservative and an outspoken critic of MMA. It is certainly a complicated issue politically.


Mixed Martial Arts fighter Fallon Fox shouldn't be allowed to beat up women (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/03/20/mixed-martial-arts-fighter-fallon-fox-shouldnt-be-allowed-to-beat-up-women/)
By Steven Crowder
Published March 20, 2013
FoxNews.com

Let me paint you a picture: your daughter is playing a contact sport. Say, football or hockey. She's gone from being your little girl to becoming a beautiful young woman. Opposite her on the field (or ice), is somebody who once was a man, until he decided that he didn’t feel like being one anymore.

This person can now legally, physically attack your daughter.

This makes liberals rejoice. How progressive.

Enter Fallon Fox, a male-to-female transgendered person, who has now decided to make a living by beating up women. With a record of 2-0, none of Fallon’s female victims have even made it past two minutes of the first round. If you were to watch these fights, it would look very much like you would expect…a man knocking a woman unconscious.

In the name of political correctness, leftists have come out championing the cause, as Fallon ragdolls female opponents into oblivion.

I can just hear the critics now... “She’s a she!” “You just hate transgender people!” or of my personal favorite “your values are just archaic!”

Archaic values? Possibly. Here’s one to try on for size…

Unless you were born and raised a woman, you don’t go around hitting chicks.

It’s only natural for human beings to get squeamish at the sight of a lifelong male pummeling dames mercilessly, but it’s not an argument. So let’s use a scientific one! Surprisingly, human biology is not the ****phobic, intrinsically anti-transgender medium that leftists would have you believe.

So let’s assume for a second that one can completely change their genetics (rather than the likely reality of having merely pushed certain, inconvenient gene expressions at bay) after having Bobbitt’d their wiener. It is still undeniable that for this person’s entire life, that he had the hormonal profile and capabilities of a man. This is of course to say nothing of the ligaments, bone density and overall musculature that has been built over a lifetime of… well, being a man. Let’s just talk hormones for a second.

Healthy young men naturally have an approximate testosterone level of 450-1100 ng./dl. Women, typically have that of 40-70 ng./dl. That’s a ratio of at least 10:1.

To give you some context; the dumb, roided out, oompa-loompa orange, professional bodybuilder at your neighborhood curl-rack very seldom enjoy that kind of a testosterone gap over their own male counterparts (with average pro bodybuilders coming in somewhere around 3500 ng.dl)

Even when people discontinue their stupid steroid cycles, they keep a significant portion of the gains they’ve made. (Also, their tribal tattoos. Gotta keep it real bro!)

Let me ask you this; if Barry Bonds came out and said “Okay okay, I did copious amounts of steroids for over 20 years, but I stopped before I hit my last few homers,” would you consider that fair? Would you consider it a distinctly illegal advantage or merely put one on the ledger for ol’ Bondy-boy! Chalk it up to him and his shenanigans, that’s our Barry!

Then there’s Lance Armstrong. Do people cut him a lot of slack for doping?

Finally, let me present to you exhibit C: Cristiane “Cyborg” Santos. Once the definitive Strikeforce female featherweight champion, Cristiane found herself stripped of the title and suspended from fighting. The reason? You guessed it, anabolic steroids. See the reason for this is that often, hard as it is to believe, anabolic steroids assist drastically in improving one’s performance!

On a related note, Fallon Fox has being using steroids for decades.

They’re called testicles.

If you’ve had them, grown up with them and used them... you don't get to beat up women.

[gunbeatskroty]

Well this is unfair as hell for the woman this shemale is fighting.

Men are just way stronger than women, in general, at the same weight class.

The shemale should be fighting other men.

[GeneChing]

Fox News Columnist Launches Transphobic, Unscientific Rant Against MMA Fighter (http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/03/21/fox-news-columnist-launches-transphobic-unscien/193174)
Blog ››› 1 hour and 17 minutes ago ››› CARLOS MAZA

Fox News contributor and self-identified "comedian" Stephen Crowder published a transphobic FoxNews.com column smearing a transgender Mixed Martial Arts fighter by repeatedly referring to her as a male and incorrectly accusing her of having an unfair advantage over her opponents as a result of "being a man."

In a March 20 FoxNews.com column, Crowder railed against transgender MMA fighter Fallon Fox, repeatedly depicting her as a male who's interested in "beating up women":

Let me paint you a picture: your daughter is playing a contact sport. Say, football or hockey. She's gone from being your little girl to becoming a beautiful young woman. Opposite her on the field (or ice), is somebody who once was a man, until he decided that he didn't feel like being one anymore.

[...]

Enter Fallon Fox, a male-to-female transgendered person, who has now decided to make a living by beating up women.

[...]

Unless you were born and raised a woman, you don't go around hitting chicks.

Crowder's insistence on referring to Fox as a male is clearly meant to be derogatory. Mentally, physically, and legally, Fox is considered a woman. Given she also self-identifies as a woman, Crowder is violating basic journalistic standards by failing to identify a transgender person by his or her stated gender. As Bleacher Report's Matt Juul recently wrote:

While it's fair to debate the possible advantages of Fox's physical attributes (although there's increasing scientific evidence that she has zero advantages), referring to her as a man is disrespectful and is not even close to being factually accurate. [emphasis added]

Solidifying himself as more of a "comedian" than a commentator, Crowder went on to claim - in the most stigmatizing and shameful way possible - that, because she was born a biological male, Fox has an unfair physical advantage over her female opponents:

So let's assume for a second that one can completely change their genetics (rather than the likely reality of having merely pushed certain, inconvenient gene expressions at bay) after having Bobbitt'd their wiener. It is still undeniable that for this person's entire life, that he had the hormonal profile and capabilities of a man. This is of course to say nothing of the ligaments, bone density and overall musculature that has been built over a lifetime of... well, being a man. Let's just talk hormones for a second.

[...]

On a related note, Fallon Fox has being using steroids for decades.

They're called testicles.

If you've had them, grown up with them and used them... you don't get to beat up women. [emphasis added]

Crowder is unqualified to be making statements about the physical characteristics of a transgender woman.

According to experts who have looked at Fox's case, Fox is unlikely to experience any significant physical damage over her female opponents.

Dr. Marci Bowers, MD:

Most measures of physical strength minimize, muscle mass decreases, bone density decreases, and they become fairly comparable to women in their musculature. After as much time as has passed in her case, if tested, she would probably end up in the same muscle mass category as her biologically born female counterpart.

Dr. Sherman Leis, founder of the Philadelphia Center for Transgender Surgery:

If an individual is on female hormones, and she's been on them for several years, the hormones decrease the muscle mass, bone density, strength, libido and aggression. Those things are attributed to testosterone, and if she no longer produces testosterone, then she would have the level that an average female would have.

She's been doing that (hormone therapy) for so many years, that she probably does not have a significant advantage, if any at all. Especially because she wasn't a big man when she lived as a male. She's 5'7 and slight of build, and basically the size of an average female. Factor in that she's been on hormones for so long, and has had the surgery, she more than likely has the muscle mass, bone density and strength of most females.

As Sports Illustrated noted, "conclusive supporting data on the subject of competitive equity has only increased as the transgender community grows among all ages."

And James McDonald at Bleacher Report recently noted that much of the criticism about Fox's alleged physical advantage has been based on bias and ignorance, not real medical expertise.

This clearly seems to be the case with Crowder, who has no basis in his column for blindly insisting "she's a man!" Like his fellow Fox News contributor Dr. Keith Ablow who regularly misinforms about LGBT issues, Crowder is more interested in mocking and stigmatizing transgender people than doing actual research about the subject he's commenting on.

Last month, GLAAD called on Fox News to end its transphobic coverage, yet given Crowder's column, it seems the network has failed to do so.

I have a transgender cousin, so this is very intriguing to me.

[MasterKiller]

I have a transgender cousin, so this is very intriguing to me.

Do you ever...think...about her?

[Lucas]

do you ever...think...about her?

lol!!!! !!!!

[GeneChing]

She had the same name that I do, but the girl's version. He abandoned it for a more masculine name. That part bothered me.

[bawang]

She had the same name that I do, but the girl's version. He abandoned it for a more masculine name. That part bothered me.

pix pls

sdfs

[GeneChing]

I will say that it was the right choice. Not the name change, but the sex change. For some people, it is a necessity.

[Oso]

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/3/20/4128658/dr-ramona-krutzik-endocrinologist-discusses-possible-advantages-fallon-fox-has

[bawang]

I will say that it was the right choice. Not the name change, but the sex change. For some people, it is a necessity.

does s/he have big muscles like buck angel


i youtubed fallon fox, she has bigger muscles than me, and dem pitbull neck

[GeneChing]

We'll see if the fight happens and what happens in the wake...

Opponent Commits to May Bout vs. Transgender Mixed Martial Arts Fighter Fallon Fox in Coral Gables (http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Opponent-Commits-to-May-Bout-vs-Transgender-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Fighter-Fallon-Fox-in-Coral-Gables-200977661.html)
The Florida State Boxing Commission may decide the status of Fox, who used to be a man, on Friday
By Willard Shepard
| Tuesday, Apr 2, 2013 | Updated 12:03 AM EDT

Opponent Commits to Bout vs. Transgender MMA Fighter
http://media.nbcmiami.com/images/654*368/Fallon+Fox.jpg
Courtesy Championship Fighting Alliance
MMA fighter Fallon Fallon announced after a recent bout that she used to be a man.

As the Florida State Boxing Commission considers whether a transgender mixed martial arts fighter can get back in the ring, her next opponent has committed to taking her on in a May bout.

The case of Fallon Fox – who used to be a man and now identifies as a woman – has brought up legal issues and safety concerns, experts said.

But MMA fighter Allana Jones has decided she will face off against Fox at the University of Miami’s BankUnited Center May 24, promoter Jorge de la Noval of the Championship Fighting Alliance told NBC 6 Monday night.

“A fight is a fight! I’ll knock her out!” the promoter quoted Jones as saying. She had until Tuesday to decide.

Meantime, the debate over should Fox be able to compete as a woman is intensifying. The boxing commission may decide Fox’s status when it meets Friday.

Law Would Let Transgender Students Use Bathroom of Choice

When Fox took on Erika Newsome in a March 2 fight at the BankUnited Center in Coral Gables, they had a weight difference of just 8 ounces. Newsome is four years younger than Fox, but it took Fox just 39 seconds to dismantle her opponent, and the bout was stopped when Fox delivered a knee that gave her a knockout win.

After the bout, Fallon announced that she used to be a man.

Fox says she knows her transgender status will cause controversy.

“Because I know there’s a possibility that people are going to come after me, they’re not going to understand, so I have to be ready,” she said in a preview of the documentary “Game Face” posted on YouTube. The film is about athletes’ coming-out process.

Fallon added emphatically in the online video that she never regrets making the transition to being a woman.

Fallon directed all calls to her agent, who directed NBC 6 to speak with the promoter, de la Noval. He said his organization, the Championship Fighting Alliance, respects Fallon.

“We don't ask our fighters what their sexual preferences are. We don't discriminate (against) any of our fighters,” de la Noval said.

NBC 6 obtained the application Fox filled out with the Florida State Boxing Commission to get her license. On the form she circled female. By signing, Fox attested that the answers she gave were true and correct to the best of her knowledge.

But the state department that regulates martial arts said that it is “currently investigating alleged discrepancies in the information provided on the application.”

“Please note that her license is not suspended or frozen during the investigation; it is still active,” Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation spokeswoman Sandi Copes Poreda said in a statement about Fox. “Currently, there is nothing that would prohibit her from being proposed on a fight card in our state."

Former professional fighter Mickey Demos, who now trains the boxers for the University of Miami club team, said Fox has an unfair advantage.

“When it comes to speed, and power, aggression, (it’s a) completely different animal. It’s dangerous what this person is doing,” he said.

[jesper]

pix pls

sdfs

http://www.pattayamail.com/pictures/miss-tiffany-universe/index.php?pid=181

or this one
http://www.pattayamail.com/pictures/miss-tiffany-universe/index.php?pid=51

enjoy :)

[mawali]

Some lesser known capoeira 'legends' were known to be transgender and cross dressing adepts of their art(s).
I would be afraid getting into the ring :D with a transgender :confused: individual as long as the person was not 6' 5' and 400 lbs

[gunbeatskroty]

I hat Joe Rogan, but ****, he makes good arguments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZe61dnol_4

[GeneChing]

Fallon Fox Did Not Commit Violation When She Applied for License With Florida State Boxing Commission: Ruling (http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Fallon-Fox-Did-Not-Commit-Violation-When-She-Applied-for-License-With-Florida-State-Boxing-Commission-Ruling-201344861.html)
Fox is scheduled to fight Allana Jones at the BankUnited Center May 24
Thursday, Apr 4, 2013 | Updated 12:45 AM EDT

Transgender mixed martial arts fighter Fallon Fox can continue to compete in bouts as a woman in Florida after a state agency dismissed a complaint about her license.

Fox did not commit a violation when she applied to get her license from the Florida State Boxing Commission, the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation said in a new ruling provided to NBC 6 on Wednesday.

The department investigated whether Fox committed fraud or deceit when she secured her MMA license, but determined that she did not, Assistant General Counsel Roger Maas wrote.

Fox – who used to be a man and now identifies as a woman – is set to fight Allana Jones at the University of Miami’s BankUnited Center in Coral Gables May 24.

Fox knocked out Erika Newsome in just 39 seconds in a March 2 bout at the BankUnited Center. She announced afterward that she used to be a man.

Fox has an unfair advantage over female opponents in terms of speed, power and aggression, former professional fighter Mickey Demos told NBC 6 earlier this week.

In his ruling, Maas said that Fox applied for a license with the California State Athletic Commission on Feb. 8, and five days later the CSAC sent her a “license payment receipt” which included a cutout section that she believed to be her license.

When Fox applied to the Florida State Boxing Commission as an MMA participant on March 1, she indicated that she was licensed in California. But a week later the CSAC’s executive director, Andy Foster, confirmed to a DBPR investigator that Fox still wasn’t fully licensed because her application was under a medical review, according to Maas.

Foster acknowledged that the receipt cutout could be mistaken for a license, but maintained that the license was not valid until the application had been fully processed, Maas wrote.

Fox told the DBPR in an affidavit, “I had a reasonable belief that this document is a license, and I have no reason to believe that this document is not a license. No from the [CSAC] has informed me otherwise.”

Maas ordered the case closed.


Some lesser known capoeira 'legends' were known to be transgender and cross dressing adepts of their art(s). There are transgenders in Muay Thai too. Ever see Beautiful Boxer (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36848)? Actually, that was a true story about a transvestite, which is different. Nevertheless, the tradition of Katooies in Thailand is very prominent as anyone who has been there will testify.

[Lucas]

I vote we turn bawang into the worlds greatest transgender champion.

[gunbeatskroty]

There are transgenders in Muay Thai too. Ever see Beautiful Boxer (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36848)? Actually, that was a true story about a transvestite, which is different. Nevertheless, the tradition of Katooies in Thailand is very prominent as anyone who has been there will testify.

That Muay Thai tranny fought men though. While fighting MT and as an MT champion (I think), he was just a cross dresser/****sexual. It was after he retired from fighting that he started taking female hormones and then chopping off his ***** to become a full time tranny.

Fox should be fighting men. But if a female fighter agrees to fight, then that's fine.

[GeneChing]

That Muay Thai tranny fought men though. True, very true.

I must say that I'm intrigued enough to try to watch this fight.

[Brule]

Guess you got to watch what you say....

UFC heavyweight Matt Mitrione had his contract suspended by the UFC Monday after making comments about a transgendered mixed martial artist named Fallon Fox.

Fox was born a man but had gender reassignment surgery and is socially recognized as a woman.

However, controversy within the MMA community has surrounded the 37-year-old, as many believe the fighter has an unfair advantage over opponents. Fox competes in the 145-pound women’s featherweight division.

Fox debuted in the sport in 2012 but didn’t publicly come out out as a transgendered athlete until early March 2013, a couple days after picking up a knockout win over Ericka Newsome at a Championship Fighting Alliance event in Florida.

“That is a lying, sick, sociopathic, disgusting freak,” said Mitrione, who referred to Fox as “he” and “him” throughout an interview on The MMA Hour Monday. “And I mean that. Because you lied on your license to beat up women. That’s disgusting.”

Many medical professionals — citing muscle mass and bone density among other things — have argued Fox has an unfair advantage over female opponents and that there are health and safety concerns over Fox competing against women.

UFC commentator Joe Rogan spoke out against Fox fighting females several weeks ago on his podcast.

“I’ll be respectful but you can’t fight women when you have a man’s frame. Period,” Rogan said. “Women aren’t that wide, that generates to increased punching power. Women don’t have that sort of muscle structure.”

Mitrione’s comments were along the same line as Rogan’s, although perhaps slightly more blatant, and they come after the UFC implemented a code of conduct for its fighters in January.

“The fact that Florida licensed him because California licensed him or whoever the hell did it, it’s an embarrassment to us as fighters, as a sport, and we all should protest that,” Mitrione added. ”The woman that’s fighting him, props to you. I hope you beat his ass, and I hope he gets blackballed and never fights again because that’s disgusting and I’m appalled by that.”

After being made aware of Mitrione’s comments the UFC issued the following statement:

“The UFC was appalled by the transphobic comments made by heavyweight Matt Mitrione today in an interview on the ‘MMA Hour.’

“The organization finds Mr. Mitrione’s comments offensive and wholly unacceptable and — as a direct result of this significant breach of the UFC’s code of conduct – Mr. Mitrione’s UFC contract has been suspended and the incident is being investigated.

“The UFC is a friend and ally of the LGBT community, and expects and requires all 450 of its athletes to treat others with dignity and respect.”

It’s uncertain at this time how long Mitrione’s contract will be suspended for and when he will be able to compete again.

Mitrione picked up a 19-second knockout win over Phil De Fries at the UFC’s event in Sweden this past weekend.

The win was Mitrione’s sixth in the UFC – his fifth by either knockout or TKO – and it snapped a two-fight losing streak.

Source: http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/ufc/ufc-suspends-mitrione-after-transphobic-rant/

[GeneChing]

It's a shame when fighters get as far as UFC and then blow it over some thoughtless comment. It happens in all sports, but UFC as a fledgling sport that is still trying to get coverage from the newspaper sports sections, has to be particularly sensitive. Those athletes that have earned a precious slot as a UFC fighter need to realize that. There's a huge difference between Rogan's commentary and Mitrione's.


The UFC is a friend and ally of the LGBT community
Maybe Bruno (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51438) was right! :eek:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Funny thing is that his comments and those of Rogan are spot on and echoed by the medical professionals.
The UFC is trying to be politically correct for the rights of the Transgendered fighter and in doing so is go against not only freedom of speech but also against the very reason there are gender divisions.

Shame on THEM.

[Oso]

^^^^^^

just logged to say that very thing.

but, in general, corporations and businesses these days are dictating what their employees can say. look at the firings a few weeks ago surrounding some comments made at some sort of electronics convention.

you should be able to say what you want until you get into the area defamation (slander, libel, etc.). Mitreone got close to that maybe...idk.

[Lucas]

andy kaufman fought only women, but he was up front about it.

[GeneChing]

...suplexed and pile-driven by Jerry 'The King' Lawler. Where is Lawler now? Maybe we can send him after Fallon...that is, if there's anything left of Fallon after the Cyborg match Lucas is putting together. :p

[Lucas]

We would all pay good money to watch the steroid pumped cyborg pile drive the worlds toughest mma tranny into submission. Or watch the worlds toughest mma tranny pile drive a steroid pumped cyborg into submission. either way its a win win.

[Vash]

Lucas is the Virgin Warrior Poet we need, not the Virgin Warrior Poet we deserve.

[Lucas]

The virgin poet
Who the Tranny doth not know
Has put the smack down

;)

[GeneChing]

...then Batgirl's roomie.


DC Comics To Introduce First Reality Based Trans Character (http://www.transadvocate.com/dc-comics-to-introduce-first-reality-based-trans-character.htm)
by Monica Roberts
April 10, 2013
http://www.wired.com/underwire/wp-content/gallery/batgirl/bg_19_4.jpg

I’ve talked in the blog about the Archie Comics having storylines in which they have done ‘what if’ gender bending with their hero Archie and reimagined his life twice as a girl in issues 516 and 636. In Archie 636 they took it a step further and gender swapped Betty and Veronica as well as Archie.

Gender fluidity has been present in the comic world for decades but only through fantasy based methods such as magic, shape-shifting, brain-swapping, and cloning via adult or independent published comics or websites such as the adult-themed TG Comics.

But DC Comics, which has also done its share of fantasy based gender bending with its line of superheroes, and over the last few years has introduced not only ethnically diverse characters, but started adding ones who are gay or lesbian after once being banned by the Comics Code Authority.

DC is about to take a major leap forward and introduce a reality based trans character.

Introducing Alysia Yeoh, the roommate of Barbara Gordon, AKA Batgirl. In the rebooted Batgirl series Barbara is a lesbian,

In Batgirl #19 Alysia will reveal to Barbara that she’s a girl like us in a conversation with her roommate in which Barbara reveals she’s Batgirl. Writer Gail Simone also revealed that Alysia’s sexual orientation is bi.

She also attributes the idea of a trans character to a Wondercon convention conversation she had with comic writer Greg Ruska after a fan asked why there were fewer gay male superheroes than lesbian ones.

Rucka, who co-created (and rebooted) Batwoman as a lesbian character, replied that it would be a real sign of change for a gay male character to appear on a comic book cover — and an even bigger step for a transgender character to do the same.

While Simone is aware of the trans characters that exist through fantasy based means, she wanted to create one that was reality based. Alysia will be “a character, not a public service announcement … being trans is just part of her story. If someone loved her before, and doesn’t love her after, well — that’s a shame, but we can’t let that kind of thinking keep comics in the 1950s forever.”

She also talked to people in the trans community before creating Alysia.
http://newnownext.mtvnimages.com/2013/04/BG_19_5.jpg?width=607&height=932

Simone suggested the Alysia Yeoh story to DC Comics Co-Publisher Dan DiDio at lunch one day, prepared to offer a passionate defense for the idea of a transgender character. ”I thought I might have to sell it, so to speak,” said Simone in the Wired interview. “But he just paused for a moment, asked how this would affect Barbara’s story, and immediately approved it. And we went back to our excellent nachos.”

Simone according to the Wired story will be adding another trans character to a story she’s working on. She also thinks it’s time for a trans superhero character, especially since many of of the loyal comic book fans and people who attend comic conventions around the country also happen to be from the trans community.

“It’s time for a trans hero in a mainstream comic. I think it’s time to make that thing happen that Greg [Rucka] mentioned years ago. And it’s going to happen … I’m sure it’s controversial on some level to some people, but honest to God, I just could not care less about that. If someone gets upset, so be it; there are a thousand other comics out there for those people.”

And as a comic book fan, I couldn’t agree more.

The moral of this story is obvious ~ 'And we went back to our excellent nachos' :D

[David Jamieson]

Ok, wait, lemme get this straight (no pun intended)...

But if I savvy this up right, I think you're saying that Lucas is Batgirl's roommate?

[Lucas]

You got it wrong. I am a virgin poet warrior. We dont trans gender tranny ourselves. It's against the rules. I mean c'mon don't you know anything about virgin warrior poets? sheesh. HOWEVER. That doesnt mean I wouldnt give up my virgin warrior poet status to sleep with a parapalegic batgirl oracle. I mean, we all have our price.

[Vash]

Gail Simone's Secret Six is one of my Top 4 comic series, ever.

However, I don't have the physical capacity to care less about Barbara Gordon. Whether she's bangin' a man, woman, woman who was born a man, whatever.

Cuz her girlfriend is not fighting women and pretending that the physical advantage she has by being genetically male don't exist.

And also I'm a guy, and I don't care about relationship stuff that doesn't involve me checking for original, factory-installed plumbing.

[Oso]

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/the_main_event/ufc_women_champ_weighs_in_on_transgender_3x7mCaaXn 27HVq1QtuO5lN#axzz2Q6nlt5N6



I think this is yet another case of political correctness being pushed over reality.

Does anyone w/o a stake in the outcome really think Fox doesn't have an advantage over a chromosomally XX woman?

[Oso]

i don't know why this hasn't been said already.

the proof of the inequality is that I don't believe we'll ever see a female to male transgender successfully compete at the pro level.

a person born xx will never have the bone density or muscle building capacity of a person born xy no matter how much testosterone they take.

[gunbeatskroty]

Muay Thai champion, turns tranny and fights old, overweight, female wrestler....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH2ZMG3gOJg

[GeneChing]

TRANSGENDER FIGHTER FALLON FOX TO MAKE HER NATIONAL TELEVISION DEBUT ON AXS TV

Championship Fighting Alliance 11 to Air LIVE on AXS TV

(April 16, 2013) -- AXS TV will broadcast “AXS TV Fights: Championship Fighting Alliance 11” LIVE Friday, May 24 at 9:00pm ET / 6:00pm PT from the Bank United Center in Miami, Florida. The event will mark the national television debut of transgender fighter Fallon Fox as she meets Allanna Jones in the semi-finals of the CFA Women’s Featherweight Tournament. Additionally, veteran heavyweights Valentin Overeem and Mike Kyle will collide in the main event of the evening.

Fox’s recent reveal that she had gender reassignment surgery has made headlines and created heated discussions throughout the sports community from organizations, writers and athletes. AXS TV’s Inside MMA has reported on the topic in depth, including one-on-one interviews with Fox and UFC champion Ronda Rousey.

Fallon Fox: http://youtu.be/8ZFQNM9tc18

Ronda Rousey discusses Fox, claiming the fighter has an advantage: http://youtu.be/F9XU4QOqVbQ

“Fallon Fox's story transcends the MMA community and has led to spirited debate on the topic of transgender athletes involvement in professional sports. AXS TV is proud to provide her and all the CFA fighters the opportunity to compete in front of a national television audience,” said Andrew Simon, CEO AXS TV Fights.

Four additional bouts will round out the televised card: Luis Palomino vs. Robert Washington, Alexis Vila vs. Czar Sklavos, Mike King vs. Oscar Delgado, and Sean Soriano vs. Elvin Brito for the CFA Interim Featherweight Title.

###

About AXS TV Fights

AXS TV Fights is renowned for its universally recognized Friday Night Mixed Martial Arts and Kickboxing events. As Your Home For MMA, AXS TV utilizes an expansive network of promotions from the United States, Canada, Europe and Asia to broadcast more LIVE fights than any other television network. "The Voice" Michael Schiavello and five-time MMA world-champion Pat Miletich provide viewers expert play-by-play, in depth fighter coverage and extensive analysis to each fight card. AXS TV broadcasts world-class LIVE fight events from Legacy Fighting Championship, Resurrection Fighting Alliance, Lion Fight Muay Thai, Titan Fighting Championship, Xtreme Fighting Championships, Maximum Fighting Championship, Championship Fighting Alliance and BAMMA every Friday night, at 7PM PT/10PM ET.

AXS TV Fights can be found online at www.axs.tv, on Facebook at www.facebook.com/axstvfights and on Twitter at www.twitter.com/axstvfights
This story has buzz for sure. It's an interesting promo for that fight league.

[GeneChing]

There's a vid with interview material, so you can hear Fallon speak for herself

Mixed Martial Arts Fighter Fallon Fox: "I'm Just Another Woman" (http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Mixed-Martial-Arts-Fighter-Fallon-Fox-Im-Just-Another-Woman-208413621.html)
The transgender fighter answered her critics in an interview with NBC 6
By Willard Shepard
| Wednesday, May 22, 2013 | Updated 1:10 AM EDT

Transgender mixed martial arts fighter Fallon Fox is about to put her perfect record on the line in South Florida. And the battle isn’t just in the ring. “I'm just another woman, just like any of them. I just come from a different background,“ she said in an interview with NBC 6’s Willard Shepard. Former professional fighter Mickey Demos and Amateur boxer Syeda Fahmin discussed Fox’s strength.

A transgender mixed martial arts fighter is about to put her perfect record on the line in South Florida. And the battle isn’t just in the ring.

Those highly popular MMA cage fights are getting lots of attention this week from people who don’t normally attend or tune in. A woman who used to be a man has the green light from the state to participate against a female opponent Friday night in Coral Gables – and there’s no shortage of supporters and critics.

“I'm just another woman, just like any of them. I just come from a different background,“ Fallon Fox said.

Fox knows as the first transgender fighter in the MMA cage events she’s breaking barriers. She is in South Florida to step into the cage again Friday night at the University of Miami’s BankUnited Center, where she will face off against Allana Jones.

The reality for Fox is her life before as a man is difficult to escape.

“I expected there to be some pushback from some people,” Fox said.

Fox so far is undefeated at 5-0. At a bout in Coral Gables in March she made quick work of her opponent, knocking her out just 39 seconds after the bell rang.

“I don't feel I have any advantage,” Fox said. “I can't see what advantages I would have.”

But some people don’t see it that way, and a complaint was filed concerning how Fox got her MMA participant license with the Florida State Boxing Commission. When she applied in Florida she indicated that she was licensed in California, but she hadn’t been fully licensed there because her application was under a medical review, the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation said. The agency ultimately dismissed the complaint, saying that Fox did not commit fraud or deceit when she secured her Florida license.

“I was pretty sure that in the end they were going to come to the conclusion that I deserved to be licensed and that I am just as female as any other competitor,” Fox said.

Experts say the boxing commission in essence is caught in a catch-22. While their lawyers have already determined that Fox can participate in the fight on Friday, the boxing commission also has another duty – its primary one – to make sure that no one gets hurt.

“I think it’s crazy. I think she's going to hurt another female,” said former professional fighter Mickey Demos.

He trains female and male athletes as the University of Miami boxing coach.

“She's basically a man with lower testosterone levels,” Demos said. “She built up her strength when she had higher testosterone levels as a youngster. She has a residual muscle base.“

Complete South Florida Sports Coverage

Amateur boxer Syeda Fahmin said, “Just because she was born as a man, physically she’s just different. She’s built differently – everything about her. If you look at her hands and my hands they're going to be different. Her shoulders are different. Her strength is different.”

But Fox calls the arguments against her similar to what was done to minority and gay athletes before.

“Now, it’s transsexuals in sports. I think they need to look at me as a person, just realize I have passion for my sport and I just want to do what everyone else is doing, and I love what I do,” she said.

One person who isn’t concerned is Fox’s opponent. Jones says Fox is the one who’s going to get knocked out.

[Lucas]

I think the question is; is fox willing to fight men instead?

[Oso]

bah, the whole argument is stupid...in today's PC world we're not supposed to disagree or say that a transgender person isn't who they 'are' now. ****ing retarded is what it is. when fighting has to become politically correct, what else is left?

lol, I think the ability to pitch or catch determines gender/sex ...and the politiolegal difference between those two terms is BS too... and since, Fallon can't pitch or catch now...he/she is out of the game period...or not, lol...hahahaha, I crack myself up


[awaits banning] :)

[David Jamieson]

i don't know why this hasn't been said already.

the proof of the inequality is that I don't believe we'll ever see a female to male transgender successfully compete at the pro level.

a person born xx will never have the bone density or muscle building capacity of a person born xy no matter how much testosterone they take.

Well, that and they have the barbie girl inculcated into their core belief system and the crybaby gene and I believe the term "sissy" is derived from sister.

So, it only makes sense that women won't excel at the manly arts.
I don't think too many dudes are crapping out babies though, so we're even right?

[Oso]

Well, that and they have the barbie girl inculcated into their core belief system and the crybaby gene and I believe the term "sissy" is derived from sister.

So, it only makes sense that women won't excel at the manly arts.
I don't think too many dudes are crapping out babies though, so we're even right?

well, yea, I guess that makes the sexes even...I know I would never ever want to give birth. I do not envy women being stuck with that role.

I don't think 'fighting' is a manly art per se. the point is that the playing field should be as even as possible, which is the reason they have separate leagues for women and men...and weight classes for that matter.

[Lucas]

the real test is if you see any transgender fighters going in the opposite direction. I'm willing to bet you will not ever see that, and if you do, that person will not fair well in the long run.

[Oso]

yea, that's what I said that david quoted. :)

[Oso]

my main point being that common sense is being overruled by political correctness.

[Lucas]

yea, that's what I said that david quoted. :)

i dont understand the languages that dravin jemisronz types. but i just read your quote and i agree with you. but i cant tell what jimezonx is talking about cuz of his language choices.

[PalmStriker]

There should be a GenderBender League for the few people who think they need to compete in traditional male only/ female only designated competition. It's only fair to those placing bets on fighting venues. :D Has to be fair, no genetic altering either. Otherwise, shouldn't all steroid/hormone doping be allowed to even things up? Or out? Go figure, Donkey Punch. http://www.sherdog.com/

[GeneChing]

Good. We can keep this thread going now...

Follow the link for vid.

Trans fighter Fallon Fox wins unimpressively (Video) (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mma-cagewriter/trans-fighter-fallon-fox-wins-unimpressively-video-142855590.html)
By Maggie Hendricks | Cagewriter – Sat, May 25, 2013 10:28 AM EDT

Considering Fallon Fox won her first two fights in the first round, it was expected for the first openly trans fighter to walk through her next opponent, Allanna Jones at Championship Fighting Alliance on Friday. In her first nationally televised bout, Fox won with a submission in the third round, but it was not the overwhelming win that oddsmakers were expecting.

You can watch the full fight in the video above. Fox and Jones both made mistakes like keeping their hands too low and holding their chin out too far throughout the bout. They looked like two inexperienced fighters because that's what they are.

Much of the controversy that surrounded Fox was the perception that since she was born a man, she would have clear advantage over her opponents. As Sherdog's Jordan Breen pointed out, "So, did anyone watch that and think, 'Wow, what an insurmountable advantage Fallon Fox has, no one could ever beat her!'?" She beat a 2-1 fighter, but not soundly. When she goes up in level of competition, as she will do in the next round of the CFA tournament, she will have a hard time.

[Oso]

heh, could fox have been sandbagging? i'll have to watch the rest later but it looked liked she let go of that shoulder lock at the end of the first round.

[PalmStriker]

Think Fox should have to fight guys if he's going to be swinging both ways. Definitely male physique. If the glove doesn't fit, you must admit. (It doesn't fit). :)

[Oso]

yea, I would not mistake Fox for a woman from behind at all.

[Lucas]

heh, could fox have been sandbagging? i'll have to watch the rest later but it looked liked she let go of that shoulder lock at the end of the first round.

I was wondering the same thing. In his/her position, surrounding the controversy, I would definately tone down my game to keep the fights coming in.

[Syn7]

Yeah, if you are going to keep males and females separate, you can't have transgendered people up in there. If you allow people to take hormones then it's fair. Personally, I would be cool with the rule that if anyone can be shown to have EVER juiced, they can't play. We can make a juice league for them. Even if you take them 5 years ago, build a giant base then stop and keep maintaining that base, you have an advantage. Not cool. People shouldn't feel like they have to take drugs just to level the field because a few *******s wanted to cheat back in the day. It just builds from there and grows exponentially, as we clearly see in almost every pro sport. **** juicers. Zero tolerance lifetime bans IMO. And maybe it seems unfair to transgendered people, but they either have a natural advantage or an advantage from taking drugs or both.

[Oso]

I was wondering the same thing. In his/her position, surrounding the controversy, I would definately tone down my game to keep the fights coming in.

it really did look like she just let it go. Militech was talking about how he thought Fox was gassing. Could be just too tired, and Jones did appear to be getting out, but the second camera angle on the replay show, to me, that Fox could have cranked a lot harder in to the lock. idk. i'm admittedly out of the game and have been for a couple of years now...so, I could be wrong.

[GeneChing]

Follow the link for the audio.

First trans martial arts fighter Fallon Fox competes Oct. 12 at BankUnited Center (with audio interview) (http://miamiherald.typepad.com/gaysouthflorida/2013/10/first-trans-martial-arts-fighter-fallon-fox-competes-oct-12-at-bankunited-center-with-audio-interview.html)
BY RODOLFO ROMAN, The Roman Show

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b26169e2019affdae422970c-pi

The first transgender fighter in mixed martial arts Fallon Fox (3-0) will be in action against Ashlee Evans-Smith for $20,000 and the inaugural Championship Fighting Alliance’s women’s featherweight title plus three other titles will be up for grabs at CFA 12 on Saturday, Oct. 12 at the BankUnited Center in Coral Gables.

The Miami based mma promotion will be hosting its fifth event of the year with the main event between CFA flyweight champion Josh Sampo vs newcomer Sam Thao and the co-main event UFC’s The Ultimate Fighter winner Efrain Escudero vs Bellator veteran and Miami favorite Luis Palomino. The show will be televised on AXS TV. Door open at 6 p.m.

“These are two veterans that will deliver a knockout performance,” he said. “Palomino is coming off a victory, while Escudero has back-to-back wins. The winner of this fight can really make a major statement in the sport, so a lot is on the line for both of these athletes.”

Meanwhile, Fox and Evans-Smith will trade hands inside the cage in the promotion’s all women tournament. Evans-Smith defeated Tori Adams in the opening round and received a bye in the second round, while Fox defeated her first opponent via knockout and the second foe by way of submission. Fox, a post-operative transsexual female, was met with controversy when she disclosed she was transgender earlier this year. Since then she has moved forward and has put it in the past.

“We are beyond that now,” she said. “We are moving past it.”

However, Evans-Smith says she thinks highly of her training and fight game.

“Both of us are going to pick each others game apart and both of us are going to train appropriately,” she said in an interview. “But when it comes down to it, I talked to a bunch of people including my coaches and I am not going to say her stand up game is better than mine or mine is better than hers. I am just going to say that when we step in the cage everyone will see who is the better striker, the better grappler. I am completely confident that I am better in every aspect.”

On the other hand, Fox says Evans-Smith doesn’t impress her.

“I am not too impressed with her ground game actually, from what I have seen,” she said in an interview on The Roman Show. “She has some decent takedowns. I haven’t seen jiu jitsu out of her. I don’t know what she is talking about in that regards.”

[GeneChing]

More pix if you follow the link

Transgender mixed martial-arts fighter Fallon breaks barriers (http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/lgbt/Transgender-mixed-martial-arts-fighter-Fallon-breaks-barriers/45806.html)
by Ross Forman, Windy City Times
2014-01-08
http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/images/WindyCityTimes_Copyrighted_Image.gif

Fallon Fox, the first openly transgender athlete in MMA ( mixed martial arts ) history, came out publicly March 5, 2013. She has been fighting in and out of the cage, and still continues her battle while also fighting off the grips of Father Time. She is a mother of one teenage daughter and now dating Amy Pierson. Fox has been living in the Chicago area—now, the northwest suburbs—for eight years, coming to the Windy City to escape gender issues within her family. Fox spoke exclusively with Windy City Times' reporter Ross Forman to discuss her battles in and out of the cage, her long-term goals to aid the LGBT community, and more.

Photo gallery at the link: www.windycitymediagroup.com/gay/lesbian/news/photospreadthumbs.php .

Fallon Fox was at a crowded sports bar in the Chicago area on Dec. 28, 2013, among a throng of vocal, dedicated Ultimate Fighting Championship ( UFC ) fans, many anxiously waiting for that Saturday night's women's bantamweight championship bout when Ronda Rousey faced archrival Miesha Tate in the co-main event of UFC 168, held at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas.

The bout was a culmination of The Ultimate Fighter ( TUF ) 18, a show that showcased Rousey's competitive nature—the same Rousey who, in a 2013 interview with the New York Post, stated that Fox has "an advantage" and that she does not "think it's fair" that Fox fights against females.

After Rousey triumphed, a group of 10 or 15 friends debated the women's side of UFC, debating who might knock Rousey off her throne.

Someone said Fox, and she heard it.

So Fox slowly made her way over the group, ultimately surprising all.

"So, do you think I could beat Ronda Rousey?" she asked with a smile on her face.

The group was shocked. They said they saw her that night at the bar, but none were certain it was Fox the fighter.

Cell phones were quickly converted into camera mode.

She stayed with the group for about five minutes.

"Months ago, I probably wouldn't have don't that," Fox said.

Truly, her life is transitioning.

Fox won her first three MMA fights, but dropped her most recent, on Oct. 12, 2013, to Ashlee Evans-Smith in Coral Gables, Fla.

"I think my record is pretty good, even though I lost my last fight. Hey, every fighter loses at times; it's just something I have to come back from in my next fight," said Fox, who will fight three or four times annually, and has no next fight scheduled, yet. "I am very hard on myself for things I did wrong [in every fight], even if I win the fight. You can never have a perfect fight. I'm very hard on myself, even for the smallest things. But I always learn from my mistakes."

Fox said her MMA career should continue for another few years. But five years from now, she added, "I don't know [if I still will be fighting then], maybe not so much."

She is battling Father Time, not just her in-ring foes and out-of-ring haters—of which there have been plenty. UFC color commentator Joe Rogan, for instance, was strongly opposed to Fox. Also, Matt Mitrione has said Fox was "still a man." Mitrione also called her an "embarrassment" and stated that Fox is a "lying, sick, sociopathic, disgusting freak."

"I will never please the haters, and I really don't care about them; I'll never reach them," Fox said. "The ones who love me, I give them all the love back. I stick to them; they are my support. It's the ones who are in the middle of the road, on the fence, who I am trying to reach. They might understand the reality and truth behind the situation.

"It's painful when those people who are really, really hateful, but I'm starting to get used to that; I'm starting to get a thicker skin."

Some haters have been converted, she said, adding that some have even emailed her to admit they have changed.

Not many have changed to now support Fox, probably a dozen, she said.

"I think I am changing minds of people who have never even had to think about the subject. One of the reasons trans people are discriminated against and hated so much, even outside of sports, is because … we're silenced. A lot of us transition and go on with our lives, and live in silence, and not too many people get to hear our stories. I think it's important that we're able to voice our stories, our experiences. This is a very important time for us to get out there, in every sector—to just be yourself."

That's why Fox said her post-fighting career will be within the LGBT community—somehow, in some capacity.

"For me, the coming-out of Fallon Fox was the bravest thing anyone in sports did in 2013," said Cyd Zeigler, co-founder of Outsports.com . "We've made so many great strides for LGBT athletes, but MMA is still deeply transphobic. Fallon came out in a sport that many believe is specially designed to rightfully exclude her and everyone like her. She has had to bear the brunt of brutal attacks from fans and other fighters. She has had her personal life dissected by state boxing commissions. Through it all, she's been a fighter. Fallon is my hero, and I hope I can meet hatred and ignorance as bravely as she has."

Fox is, without question, a trailblazer, which she said is "a lot of responsibility."

"There are a lot of people, especially young people, who say that I am their hero, their role model, so I feel like I have to live up to that expectation. It's been pretty surreal," Fox said. "I was pretty sure before I came out that something like this likely would happen, but being the first, and so [prominent] in the media, is something that I don't think anyone can prepare themselves for that."

Fox has been living in the Chicago area for about the past eight years, coming to the Windy City to "escape my situation in Toledo, Ohio." Fox was born in Toledo, has served in the U.S. military, and has one daughter, 17, who calls Fox "Mom."

Her family was not accepting of her personal issues, so she left for Chicago—at the urging of a straight male friend she knew from her military stint.

"[It] was a hostile environment as far as family goes, and I just needed to get away and start over, so I came here—and Chicago has been a very nurturing place for me," Fox said. "I suppose I didn't know what to expect when I came here; I didn't know too much about Chicago. But it's been nice, really good to be here.

"But I don't like the cold so much. If it could be warm here year-round, I would be in paradise."

Fox said some family members have "started to come around" over the past couple of years and be more accepting. But still, her closest family member is her younger brother. continued next post

[GeneChing]

"I fill [the void] with other types of family, such as my LGBT family, or friends, or my partner, Amy," Fox said.

She has been dating Amy Pierson, 28, since last summer, though the two met about five or six years ago through a friend.

"For me, I think it's really important to have someone to come home to, to talk to," Fox said. "There's a lot I have to deal with, so to just have that emotional support and love from my partner is very important."

Fox, who was profiled in GQ Magazine in late 2013, said she is "pretty satisfied" on the personal front, "though there is a lot more that I want to do."

Her daughter, an honors student, is doing "very, very well in school. I have no complaints from her at all," said the proud Fox.

"I realize the position that I'm in—and I want to capitalize on it. I want to help and do as much as I can to help the LGBT community, especially trans people. The T needs to be brought up; it is behind the LG and B. We're way behind," Fox said. "It's kind of surreal to see my life story in a big, major magazine or on TV."

Trans athlete Chris Mosier, a Chicago native who now lives in New York and runs transathlete.com, said Fox is a "role model" for so many under the LGBT rainbow, not just within the T world.

"She's changing athletics and our culture in general by making trans people a part of the conversation in sports," Mosier said. "As a fighter, she clearly has a tough job, but I think Fallon endures more outside of the ring than she does [while] fighting. The comments she has had to deal with have been atrocious, and have shown us as much about society's ignorance of transgender people as they have about the strength of Fallon's character. Fallon is an absolute warrior.

"As a trans woman, Fallon faces a lot more discrimination than I do as a trans man. When I came out as a trans male triathlete, people said, 'Good luck trying to compete against the men,' and basically ignored me. But Fallon is assumed to have advantages competing as a female, despite her having virtually no male hormones, mostly because people already have their minds made up about her competing. The facts are out there—she doesn't have advantages over other female fighters, and she is not unbeatable. If she wins, it's because she trained hard and was the better fighter, not because she's trans.

"Fallon is relentless both inside the ring and in her everyday life. I have been so impressed by her commitment to be her true self in the face of adversity. She truly epitomizes the word 'fighter.'"

Fox will be spotlighted this summer with the release of a documentary Game Face, an inspiring film by producer/director Michiel Thomas about the coming-out process of professional and college athletes.

"It's going to be an awesome documentary about the challenges that LGBT people face in sports, in coming out," Fox said. "There are a lot of things in the documentary that people are going to see that they just don't know about yet; I think it's going to blow people's minds."

Such as?

Fox would not say.

"For me, this [documentary] is very important because I want people to understand what we go through, how hard it is for us LGBT athletes to come out, the reasons we don't come out [immediately], and then what happens when we do come out."

The film will show Fox as an everyday person, not just a trans fighter.

"This [film] will be eye-opening for a lot of people, [showing me] at training [sessions], behind the scenes at fights, with my daughter, and more," Fox said.

"I'm stoked for the film. I can't wait until it's done and released."

More from Fallon Fox:

—On a gay athlete in one of the big four pro male team sports ( baseball, basketball, football and hockey ): "I'm still waiting for that one [active] LGBT athlete to have the guts to say that he is gay, and come out. I think, when an athlete comes out from one of the top four sports, the public will be very accepting," she said. "Sure, Jason Collins caught some flack, a little, when he came out, but, for the most part, people were very accepting. There have to be gay athletes in the NFL, the NBA, [as well as the NHL and Major League Baseball]. I think it's going to happen, soon."

—Fox enjoys going to Andersonville, and spoke favorably about the now-closed bar T's. "I used to hang out at T's Bar a lot before it closed; that was my spot," she said. "I have to find a new [favorite]."

—She attended the 2013 New York City Pride Parade via GLAAD. She has been to the Chicago Pride Parade "plenty of times," she said, but never been in it, yet. "I would love to be in the Chicago Pride Parade."

—More Chicago: "I love Market Days."

—She is, admittedly, a "horrible cook," and said she enjoys playing video games, especially the Mass Effect series. True that there are many other gay athletes in pro sports (I'm sure we'll hear more of this in Sochi) but are there other transgender athletes in NFL, NBA, NHL or MLB? Anyone know? I don't feel like searching this.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Just too silly to even be commented on.
It is quite clear that a male that decides to become a female and be in s combat sport, still carries with "her" the genetic attributes of a male.
IE: Bone density, muscle fiber, recovery ability, aggression, etc, etc.

There was the "she male" thai boxer too Gene but I don't know of any other pro sport that has transgender athletes competing.

[GeneChing]

There was even a film about that fighter: Beautiful Boxer (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?36848-Beautiful-Boxer). Thailand. Been there, done that. A country that has katooeys (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?16442-talk-to-the-got-qi-girls&p=666327#post666327) as a cultural fixture. ;)

My reaction is more towards her comment on gay athletes, quite different than transgender.

[Syn7]

This reminds me of another interesting debate that goes beyond combat sports. Hormone replacement therapy and how it can be legitimized and how it can be manipulated in order to be legitimized. If you have a legit reason to take testosterone, is that an unfair advantage? What about the guys who test low but not low enough to be approved in taking testosterone? Or what about guys who have naturally high levels? Do we bring them down? Kind of a weird area in sports medicine these days. I also find it weird that it's only acceptable, in general, to take drugs when you're sick, but not as an enhancement. Where do we draw that line? You can fail a test by eating lots of naturally sourced enhancers. Do we regulate basic diet too? This area of discussion seems to open a huge can of worms and any line drawn in the sand seems to be relatively arbitrary in many cases.

[sanjuro_ronin]

This reminds me of another interesting debate that goes beyond combat sports. Hormone replacement therapy and how it can be legitimized and how it can be manipulated in order to be legitimized. If you have a legit reason to take testosterone, is that an unfair advantage? What about the guys who test low but not low enough to be approved in taking testosterone? Or what about guys who have naturally high levels? Do we bring them down? Kind of a weird area in sports medicine these days. I also find it weird that it's only acceptable, in general, to take drugs when you're sick, but not as an enhancement. Where do we draw that line? You can fail a test by eating lots of naturally sourced enhancers. Do we regulate basic diet too? This area of discussion seems to open a huge can of worms and any line drawn in the sand seems to be relatively arbitrary in many cases.

I am not sure how much of that applies to a person BORN male and deciding to be female afterwards.
There is a reason that sports have female and male categories.

[Syn7]

I am not sure how much of that applies to a person BORN male and deciding to be female afterwards.
There is a reason that sports have female and male categories.

It has nothing to do with transgenders, specifically. But it has everything to do with hormone levels and what is fair and what isn't, which is why I posted that here. And it's not like I came to KFM to talk about this, it just popped into my head when reading the other posts. But there is crossover there. Also, does a person who did use hormone treatment in the past, but not anymore, have an unfair advantage over somebody who just did it all naturally?

These questions, coupled with my other questions, are important at getting to the heart of the matter as to what is fair in sports medicine. Whether you were born a man and are now a woman, or whether you are just manipulating your levels.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It has nothing to do with transgenders, specifically. But it has everything to do with hormone levels and what is fair and what isn't, which is why I posted that here. And it's not like I came to KFM to talk about this, it just popped into my head when reading the other posts. But there is crossover there. Also, does a person who did use hormone treatment in the past, but not anymore, have an unfair advantage over somebody who just did it all naturally?

These questions, coupled with my other questions, are important at getting to the heart of the matter as to what is fair in sports medicine. Whether you were born a man and are now a woman, or whether you are just manipulating your levels.

No need to get defensive dude.
My point is simply that if a person is born Male ( and all the genetic stuff that goes with it) and spends their formative years as a male, then they become a female, IMO, they still carry over the "benefits" of their male formative years, typically:
stronger bones and muscles and so forth.
I don't know HOW right I am because I have not really researched it that much BUT I do recall reading an article on the issue and how other sports are addressing it, namely not allowing the transgender person competing because ( in the case of a male that becomes a female) they had an unfair physical advantage.

[Syn7]

Not defensive, just arguing my point. And I'm sure you're right. I am inclined to believe it is an unfair advantage. I'm also inclined to believe that hormone levels are relevant to this conversation. It's crazy how fast medical technology is surpassing the governing bodies of sports, in general.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Not defensive, just arguing my point. And I'm sure you're right. I am inclined to believe it is an unfair advantage. I'm also inclined to believe that hormone levels are relevant to this conversation. It's crazy how fast medical technology is surpassing the governing bodies of sports, in general.

I apologize, this part I took as being "defensive":
And it's not like I came to KFM to talk about this, it just popped into my head when reading the other posts.

I agree with what you said about hormones and such.

[Syn7]

I apologize, this part I took as being "defensive":.

I agree with what you said about hormones and such.

No apology necessary. Just sayin that I wasn't intentionally trying to change the subject or anything. I just see the two as the same topic.:)

[righteousrat]

Fallon is actually at a disadvantage. Years of hormone therapy start to wither the musculature, and reduce bone density to within the range of accepted female physiology. However, Fallon has almost no testosterone. Every other woman she competes against has drastically higher levels of testosterone, and thus an advantage (assuming, of course, that testosterone is always an advantage in combat).

What would be the reaction if, as some have suggested, she fights based upon her birth gender? It would certainly be a challenge to our gender binary if someone who presented as female, even being required to wear a jogging bra during fights, pitted herself against men?

[David Jamieson]

Consistent training using a method that gets the results desired is more important than other factors in my opinion. Even for someone who has Gender Identity disorder. Train hard, kick arse. Pretty simple, trans or not. oh, and you only get to be king or queen for a day. then, it all goes to another. :)

[GeneChing]

Coincidentally, I was just wondering what's been up with Fallon Fox lately.

Rousey won't fight transgendered MMAer Fallon Fox (http://www.torontosun.com/2014/09/19/rousey-wont-fight-transgendered-mmaer-fallon-fox)
Calls out women's champ in aftermath of TMZ interview
QMI AGENCY
First posted: Friday, September 19, 2014 07:00 PM EDT | Updated: Friday, September 19, 2014 07:24 PM EDT

http://storage.torontosun.com/v1/dynamic_resize/sws_path/suns-prod-images/1297608658518_ORIGINAL.jpg?quality=80&size=420x
Fallon Fox A photo of transgendered MMAer Fallon Fox. (Facebook)

Even Ronda Rousey has a line she won’t cross.

She “ain’t scared” of transgendered MMA fighter Fallon Fox, but that doesn’t mean she’s going to meet her in the octagon.

Rousey, the UFC’s women’s bantamweight champ, is unbeaten in 10 professional fights.

And while she told TMZ this week she can “knockout anyone in the world,” there’s a reason she’s shying away from a potential bout with Fox, a 38-year-old who once served in the U.S. Navy as a man.

“It’s a case by case scenario thing,” Rousey said of her transgendered challenger. “I’ve tried to research it a lot. I feel like if you go through puberty as a man it’s not something you can reverse ... There’s no undo button on that.”

Ronda Rousey -- Fallon Fox Has Unfair Advantage ... But I'd Still Beat Her Ass! - Watch More Celebrity Videos or Subscribe

Unsurprisingly, Fox says it shouldn’t matter.

She took to social media to implore Rousey and the Ultimate Fighting Championship to give her a title shot.

“I really wish Ronda would stop with the ridiculous bone structure arguments,” Fox posted to her official Facebook page. “That was so last year. Second, she should tell her boss to put me in that octagon over there at UFC.

“I'm quite sure that there are quite a few female MMA fighters who have guts to fight another skilled woman without peeing their panties.”

Despite the rhetoric, it might not be Rousey’s choice anyway.

Her boss, UFC president Dana White, took a pretty strong stance on the matter in an interview with reporters last year.

“Bone structure is different, hands are bigger, jaw is bigger, everything is bigger,” White said. “I don’t believe in it. I don’t think someone who used to be a man and became a woman should be able to fight a woman.”

Meanwhile, Rousey has demolished everyone who has stood in her way.

Her last bout, against Canadian challenger Alexis Davis, lasted 16 seconds.

“In Fallon Fox’s case, I think she has an unfair advantage,” Rousey said. “It’s unfortunate for her competition as well.”

I'm very tempted to split Fallon off on to her own independent thread.

[GeneChing]

https://lifesite-cache.s3.amazonaws.com/images/made/images/remote/https_s3.amazonaws.com/lifesite/Miscellaneous/Fallon_Fox_810_500_55_s_c1.jpg
'I’ve fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night,' said Tamikka Brents about Fallon Fox (pictured) Youtube screenshot
Dustin Siggins

Fri Sep 19, 2014 - 5:42 pm EST
Transgender ‘female’ MMA fighter gives female opponent concussion, broken eye socket (https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/transgender-female-boxer-gives-female-opponent-concussion-breaks-her-eye-so)

Transgender mixed martial arts (MMA) competitor Fallon Fox is facing new criticisms after breaking the eye socket of his last opponent.

On Saturday, Fox defeated Tamikka Brents by TKO at 2:17 of the first round of their match. In addition to the damaged orbital bone that required seven staples, Brents received a concussion. In a post-fight interview this week, she told Whoa TV that "I've never felt so overpowered ever in my life."

“I’ve fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because [he] was born a man or not, because I’m not a doctor,” she stated. “I can only say, I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life, and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right. ”

His “grip was different,” she added. “I could usually move around in the clinch against...females but couldn’t move at all in Fox’s clinch.”

Fox's gender controversy is not new. In March 2013, after a 39-second knockout victory, it was revealed that Fox had not told the MMA community about his sex-change operation, which took place in 2006. That bout was the fifth straight first-round victory for the then-37-year old Fox, including his three amateur bouts, and his second victory as a professional fighter.

A video of the Brents fight taken by a ringside fan shows Fox throwing several powerful knees to the face and torso of Brents at the start of the match, who pulled guard to protect herself. Soon, Brents turned her back to avoid damage, where she took approximately 45 seconds of elbow and fist strikes – many blocked by her hands and arms – before the referee stopped the fight.

Critics of Fox abound, especially in light of the Brents fight. Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) female champ Ronda Rousey told TMZ that while she would fight Fox, allowing transgender men to fight is "a case-by-case scenario."

"I feel like, if you already go through puberty as a man, that's something you can't really reverse," said Rousey, who said that it "would be fine" if a boy who was on hormone therapy to become a woman prior to puberty wanted to fight as a woman.

Because Fox had transgender surgery so late in life, however, Rousey said that he shouldn't fight women.

Likewise, last year, UFC announcer Joe Rogan made his opinion unambiguously and graphically clear, saying on his podcast that a transgendered man would "have all the bone structure that comes with” being a man. “You have bigger hands, you have bigger shoulder joints."

Speaking to LifeSiteNews, military veteran Jeff Nader, who has fought for UFC competitor Bellator, said that “Fallon Fox has had the benefits of being a man for most of his life. [He has] bone density, muscle mass, and other physical benefits that one gets from being a man. You can't have that, and then make a minor adjustment -- basically, a cosmetic adjustment -- and suddenly claim to be a woman."

"Nothing can take away from the fact that you are physically a man. Mentally and emotionally, who knows -- but physically, he's a man."

Nader said that Fox's loss to a woman earlier this year "doesn't matter." He told LifeSiteNews that "I am 220 pounds right now, and there are some women who would beat me in a grappling match because they have better technique. But that's in grappling, which doesn't involve striking. My wife has beaten several men in regulated grappling matches, but when you involve striking, that changes the equation. The physicality involved in MMA, including brute strength, changes the equation."

Combat sambo practitioner and former amateur boxer Brian Ledoux was likewise critical of Fox's decision to compete, saying that "I do not think a transgender male should be able to fight in female sports. I consider myself to be socially liberal on most subjects, but not when it comes to this scenario."

"In my opinion, when it comes to something like combat sports there is a clear physical advantage a transgender male could have over a female fighter. This is coming from my basic understanding of the physiological difference between the sexes,” Ledoux said. “These advantages create an uneven playing field in a sport that is already dealing with things like PED abuse, blood doping, etc."

"While I respect an individual’s rights to live their own life," Ledoux told LifeSiteNews, "I think in the case of MMA and combat sports a clear line should be drawn."

Former professional MMA fighter Dennis "Old School" Siggins told LifeSiteNews that "I totally disagree" with Fox fighting."

"Even if a transgender male loses some of his physical strength, that person will still likely have a tremendous strength advantage over...female opponents," said Siggins, who in addition to fighting also formerly ran and reported for the biggest MMA website in New England and New York. "A transgender male is simply bigger and more powerful than a female, and should not, I believe, be allowed to compete in female combat sports."

Fox has received support from some quarters, including from the first openly ****sexual UFC fighter, Liz Carmouche. After Fox's surgery became public, Carmouche told the ****sexual advocacy site GLAAD that "the MMA community – people who work in the gyms, the trainers and sparring partners and the fans – all openly embraced me as an athlete and I’m proud to see that also happening with a transgender athlete."

Carmouche said, “If a world-regarded respected body like the Nevada Athletic Commission licenses her as a female competitor, and says she has no performance advantage, then that should be good enough for everyone."

After Fox's past was revealed, Championship Fighting Alliance women’s tournament was canceled in support of Fox, who was under a great deal of pressure at the time because he had falsely claimed the California boxing commission had approved her fighting license. Fox says the misunderstanding -- Fox's application was being considered in California -- was accidental.

In an interview with "Inside MMA," Fallon said that "I don’t believe that a transgender fighter should have to disclose her personal medical history to other female fighters before they fight. It’s simply for the reason the medical community and the scientific community have come to the consensus that post-operative transsexual fighters who have been on hormone-replacement therapy and testosterone suppression, when they’re going from male to female, haven’t been found to have any physiological advantages over other women.”

Fox also said that some women who don't want to fight him may choose that path because they "might be a hate-filled person" or "have a bias." He said that "I don't want to fight those people, anyways, because they're scared.” He wants to fight someone who will fight "aggressively."

One fighter who did try to be aggressive was Brents. Her conclusion is that Fox shouldn't fight with women. “Any other job or career I say have a go at it, but when it comes to a combat sport I think it just isn’t fair. At least not until we have more scientific proof that it is or isn’t fair. More research is needed for sure."

Disclosure: Dennis Siggins is the father of LifeSiteNews D.C. Correspondent Dustin Siggins


I changed this thread title from 'Transgender MMA' to 'Fallon Fox' because this is really just about her.

[PalmStriker]

I think Fallon Fox should challenge Mike Tyson in drag to a match. "I'm onna 'bus you one". http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh164/wfmuhotrod1/Mike-Tyson.jpg

[GeneChing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHkx9evsC-M

Game Face is coming to Netflix this month.

[GeneChing]

Transgender “Female” MMA Fighter Brutally Injures Female Opponent (http://www.libertynewsnow.com/transgender-female-mma-fighter-brutally-injures-female-opponent/article1545)
Cultureby Adam Campbell - Jun 8, 2015 278588

http://2yi7bmm2lpf4ajx2d1n8qiri.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/transgender-mma-700x467.jpg
Transgender mixed martial arts (MMA) fighter Fallon Fox is the target of criticism after brutally injuring an opponent.

Fox defeated Tamikka Brents just two minutes into the first round of the match. Brents suffered a damaged orbital bone, which required seven staples, and a concussion.

Brents summed it up: “I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life.”

“I’ve fought a lot of women,” Brents stated. “And never felt the strength I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because [he] was born a man or not, because I’m not a doctor,” she stated. “I can only say, I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life, and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right.”

The video of the Brents-Fox fight was pretty brutal: Fox threw knees to Brents face and torso right at the beginning, to kick off the fight. Brents ultimately turned her back to avoid more damage–and took almost a minute of hard strikes from Fox’s elbows and fists, before the referee stopped.

Because of how men and women are differently built–Fox, who was born a man, has larger hands, shoulders, bones, and muscle mass–a transgender opponent has a huge advantage. Because Fox transitioned her gender so recently, she still has many of the advantages that being a man has.

And, on Saturday night when Fox fought Brents, those advantages were very clearly on full display.

Already, criticism is mounting, both from MMA fighters and the greater public at large. Mixed martial arts champ, Ronda Rousey, has refused to fight Fox over her “unfair advantage.”

It remains to be seen if the latest fight, which left an opponent so severely injured, will affect the rules of MMA fighting. But for now, Fox remains classified as a female fighter–and ready to fight, with the advantage of being born a man.

Perhaps this was just a matter of time...

[GeneChing]

This is slightly OT, but we don't have a transgender thread here...yet?


BJJ Brown Belt Transgender Woman Anne Veriato Defeats Man In Her Mixed Martial Arts Debut (https://jiujitsutimes.com/anne-veriato-defeats-man-in-her-mixed-martial-arts-debut/)
By Chris Zahar - March 11, 2018

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Last month, we wrote about Anne Veriato — the transgender woman who was planning on facing a man in her mixed martial arts debut.


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Portal A Crítica
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@ACritica
Mr. Cage 34 é palco de luta histórica com atleta transgênero neste sábado (10) em Manaus. Saiba mais: https://goo.gl/PdxNXz #CompartilheACrítica

8:06 AM - Mar 10, 2018
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Well, Anne faced that man, and she won.

Veriato faced Railson Paixao in a strawweight bout at Mr. Cage 34, which took place in Manaus, Brazil.

According to MMA Fighting, Veriato spent the majority of the fight working her submissions. This should come as no surprise considering her background in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. However, she also connected with good shots while standing.


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Portal A Crítica
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@ACritica
Atleta trans Anne Veriato vence luta histórica contra Raílson Paixão no Mr. Cage 34, em Manaus: https://goo.gl/3wnRjy

6:08 AM - Mar 11, 2018
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She won the match via decision.

[GeneChing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjENWyIJLQU

[GeneChing]

A very weak clip but this point resurfaces.


Transgender MMA fighter breaks female opponent’s skull. Is it now OK for a man to hit a woman? (http://caldronpool.com/transgender-mma-fighter-breaks-female-opponents-skull-is-it-now-ok-for-a-man-to-hit-a-woman/)
'I've never felt so overpowered ever in my life...'
Caldron Pool October 15, 2018

https://i0.wp.com/caldronpool.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/caldron-1-1.jpg?w=980

In 2014, Fallon Fox, a transgender MMA fighter, beat his female opponent, Tamika Brents, so severely, that she suffered a broken skull and concussion before being TKO’d.

The fight lasted one round and was over in almost two and a half minutes. It’s not easy viewing, but the entire fight, including the bloody end, can be viewed below:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX3f3KnRvAk

In an interview following the fight, Brents said:


I’ve fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because she was born a man or not because I’m not a doctor. I can only say, I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right… I still disagree with Fox fighting. Any other job or career I say have a go at it, but when it comes to a combat sport I think it just isn’t fair.

Responding to this incident, Ashley McGuire, author of Sex Scandal: The Drive to Abolish Male and Female, said: “Twenty years ago, if a man hit a woman so hard that he sent her to the hospital, he’d be in prison. Now he can get paid for it.

In the following video, McGuire explains, while the idea that gender is a personal choice might sound enlightened to some, it’s actually very anti-scientific and especially anti-women:


That’s because the men-and-women-are-the-same argument invariably leads women to be judged against a male standard. Or, to put it another way, to be more of a woman, a woman has to be more like a man….

For the tiny percentage of people who experience gender dysphoria, we should have nothing but compassion. We should do everything we can to help them and protect their dignity, but we don’t need to overturn biologically defined sex differences to do so.

Men and women are inherently different, and women will pay an especially high price if we continue to pretend otherwise. The incident with Fox and Brents proves a man can break a woman’s skull in the name of progress, because everyone is too “politically correct” to break his heart with reality.

[Oso]

For the tiny percentage of people who experience gender dysphoria, we should have nothing but compassion. We should do everything we can to help them and protect their dignity, but we don’t need to overturn biologically defined sex differences to do so.

that pretty much sums it up for me...in or out of the ring.

[GeneChing]

Bravest trans perhaps. Personally I feel Tommie Smith and John Carlos were braver. But there are plenty of examples of bravery in sports. I'm imagine Fallon's critics will have a field day with this.


Fallon Fox is still the bravest athlete in history (https://www.outsports.com/2020/1/14/21062012/fallon-fox-trans-athlete-mma-courage-brave)
Fallon Fox talks about the vicious online attacks she weathered, plus the support of the team in her corner.
By Cyd Zeigler @CydZeigler Jan 14, 2020, 7:00am PST

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Fallon Fox is ready to step back into the ring.

In 2013, when Fallon Fox came out publicly as trans in professional mixed martial arts, she was the target of a torrent of hatred I have literally never seen targeting an LGBTQ athlete. While certainly some writers took thoughtful approaches to understanding this emerging dynamic of trans athletes in women’s sports, still many more, like Joe Rogan, were vicious for the sake of being vicious.

Yet Fox stood strong and continued to push for, and earn, her right to compete. Except for one fateful match, she also won every time she stepped into the professional ring.

When I wrote my book, Fair Play: How LGBT Athletes Are Claiming Their Rightful Place In Sports, the final chapter was titled, “Fallon Fox Is The Bravest Athlete In History.”

That remains true for me now, four years later.

So when Outsports released its 20 LGBTQ sports heroes of the decade, and we erroneously failed to include Fox on that original list, I felt it was important to re-introduce Fox to the world.

Today, as she works toward getting a degree, Fox is quietly re-emerging on the scene. She had slipped away from the public eye and social media for some time as she nursed injuries and healed her body. Now .she’s stepping back in the ring in hopes of some sparring and possible exhibition matches.

“My body is feeling a lot better lately,” she told me from her home in Chicago. “I’m getting past some of my injuries and I’m feeling a lot more in shape.”

Fox’s previous departure from MMA

When Fox disappeared from professional MMA, some people wondered why. Did a lack of opportunity with the UFC drive her away? Would no one fight her? While she admits some women likely felt pressure to not validate Fox’s presence in the sport with a fight, she said it was exclusively injuries that forced her to the sideline.

“I would have kept going but the injuries were the biggest reason,” she said, insisting that there were many women willing to fight her. “Some people suspected it was the UFC not letting me in, but that wasn’t the ultimate goal. Some people would ask if I wanted to fight in the UFC, and yeah, I would have taken that opportunity. But even without that I would have just kept fighting.”

To be sure, it wasn’t just UFC that seemed closed to having Fox enter the octagon against a cisgender woman. Fox told Outsports that she specifically approached Invicta, an all-female MMA promotion, about competing. She said she had personal conversations with executives there, yet follow-up outreach from Fox went unreturned.

Even with high-level MMA promotions ignoring her, MMA writers attacking her existence in the sport, and comments on MMA blogs that were routinely banned as hate speech, Fox persisted.

“What drove me to want to stay in the sport was my whole goal for becoming an MMA fighter, and that was to be like my heroes, some of the cisgender women in MMA I watched from 2006 on. That’s where I belonged. That’s who I was, and I wasn’t going to let anyone stop me from being that.”

One of the lasting moments from Fox’s career is a fight that has been twisted by anti-trans forces to paint her as a criminal assailant. During her fight against Tamikka Brents, Brents suffered a broken orbital and a concussion. Broken bones and concussions are not uncommon in MMA.

The people looking to ban trans women from women’s sports quickly twisted that into the misleading headline: Transgender MMA Fighter Breaks Skull of Her Female Opponent. The crux of their campaign is to build an aura of rarity around the fight and point to Fox being trans as the reason for the outcome.

“This happens all the time,” Fox said. “I’m not the first female MMA fighter who’s broken another fighter’s bones or caused a large amount of stitches or a concussion or any combination of those. And people will of course, because I’m trans, hold it up as this devastating thing that couldn’t possibly happen if I weren’t trans. But there are many different examples of similar things happening.”

A team in her corner

While people outside Fox’s circle have used the most malicious terms known in the English language in an attempt to drive her from the sport, Fox said she was supported by the people in MMA who knew her best.

“I know what it’s like to compete and train with teammates and they not know you’re trans. They get o know you as a woman and nothing else. And then later on when you come out, your team is behind you because they understand the situation and they’ve seen it first-hand and they care about you. In many situations this is happening with other trans women.”

Fox points out that she had been with her training team for a long time before she came out publicly, or came out to them, as trans. All the while they had, according to Fox, absolutely no idea that she was any different from any cisgender athlete in MMA.

Despite all of the screams of “unfair advantages” lobbied at her and other trans women in women’s sports, the women sparring with her saw no reason to believe she was different.

”My teammates had no idea I was trans. They recognized my endurance, my strength, my ability to cut weight in the same category as cisgender women. There was no idea in their minds that I didn’t belong.

“They weren’t thinking, ‘oh my God, she’s going to kill somebody.’”

In fact, Fox being trans was so far from the radar that one teammate was quite nearly speechless when she found out.

“I told her I was trans and I was about to come out, and the look on her face and what she said, she was totally surprised. She had no idea. And everything, my physical capabilities, my endurance, it was shocking to her.”

Fox ultimately came out publicly — in articles on Outsports and in Sports Illustrated — to get ahead of an article being planned by a sportswriter planning to out Fox, she said.

“Someone told that person that I was trans. I don’t know who. But they found out. And they contacted me and they were saying that because I was trans they didn’t want me to compete.”

Fox isn’t sure who tipped off the journalist whose threats changed her life forever, but she isn’t looking back. She’s been inducted in the LGBT Sports Hall Of Fame. She is an indelible part of LGBTQ sports history. And, maybe most importantly, she generated conversations an opened possibilities for trans athletes in women’s sports that will be felt for generations.

[GeneChing]

I changed this thread title from 'Transgender MMA' to 'Fallon Fox' because this is really just about her. Maybe I need to change this back...



Transgender fighter Alana McLaughlin wins MMA debut (https://nypost.com/2021/09/11/transgender-fighter-alana-mclaughlin-wins-mma-debut/)
By Mark Fischer
September 11, 2021 10:42am Updated

Alana McLaughlin, the second openly transgender woman to compete in MMA in the United States, won her debut Friday night via submission at the Combate Global prelims in Miami, Fla.

The 38-year-old used a rear-naked choke against Celine Provost to end the match 3 minutes, 32 seconds into the second round.

McLaughlin, who began her gender transition after leaving the U.S. Army Special Forces in 2010, said she hopes to be a pioneer for transgender athletes in combat sports.

“I want to pick up the mantle that Fallon put down,” McLaughlin told Outsports before the fight, referring to Fallon Fox, who in 2012 became the first transgender woman to fight in MMA. “Right now, I’m following in Fallon’s footsteps. I’m just another step along the way and it’s my great hope that there are more to follow behind me.”

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/Alana-McLaughlin-won-her-MMA-debut-Friday..jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=1535
Alana McLaughlin won her MMA debut Friday.
Combate Global/Instagram
Fox, who sat cageside Friday, last fought in 2014. Four years later, Patricio Manuel became the first transgender male to compete in a pro boxing match in the United States when he beat Hugo Aguilar via unanimous decision.

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/McLaughlin-was-declared-the-victor-by-submission.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=1556
McLaughlin was declared the victor by submission
Combate Global/Instagram
McLaughlin began training a year ago and was cleared to fight by the Florida State Boxing Commission after having her hormone levels tested, according to ESPN.

She said it was a “nightmare” finding an opponent.

“I have nothing but respect for [Provost],” McLaughlin said.

The fight was originally scheduled for Aug. 6 but was postponed after Provost, a 35-year-old boxing and MMA veteran, tested positive for the coronavirus.

Provost landed multiple punches in the first round before McLaughlin came out on top.

As she was declared the victor, McLaughlin wore a shirt with the phrase, “End Trans Genocide.”

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/McLaughlin-is-the-second-openly-transgender-woman-to-compete-in-MMA..jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=1602
McLaughlin is the second openly transgender woman to compete in MMA.
Combate Global/Instagram
Her debut comes as multiple states argue bills aimed at restricting transgender athletes from participating in youth, high school and college sports.

“If we want to see more trans athletes, if we want to see more opportunities for trans kids, we’re going to have to work out way into those spaces and make it happen,” McLaughlin told Outsports. “It’s time for trans folks to be in sports and be more normalized.”

[GeneChing]

USA Boxing puts forth new trans policy and everybody is ****ed off (https://www.outsports.com/trans/2024/1/2/24021248/usa-boxing-trans-athlete-lgbtq-policy)
Advocates both for and against trans women in women’s sports are unhappy with USA Boxing’s policy.

By Cyd Zeigler@CydZeigler Updated Jan 2, 2024, 5:15pm PST 0 Comments / 0 New

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Mikaela Mayer is one of the boxers speaking out against USA Boxing’s trans-inclusion policy. Photo by John Walton/PA Images via Getty Images

USA Boxing reportedly has a “new” policy regarding transgender athletes, and it’s already infuriating people across the spectrum.

Advocates for trans women’s participation in the female category are pointing to some of the harshest restrictions in sport. People who oppose trans women in the female category are upset there is any path to participation for them.

The World Boxing Council has, on the international stage, barred trans women from the female category, saying they will build a transgender category. Other countries’ governing bodies, like Boxing New Zealand, have followed suit.

The policy, as widely reported, has a number of key elements to it.

First, every athlete under 18 must compete in the category corresponding to their sex assigned at birth. This flies in the face of many of the more-strict trans-inclusion policies in sports, which allow for athletes to compete in their gender category as long as they haven’t experienced puberty.

Yet in boxing, a 15-year-old trans girl who has been on puberty blockers since they were 10 still has to compete in the male category.

Second, adult boxers must have had gender reassignment surgery. For years, sports governing bodies have moved away from this requirement, so the return of this requirement for USA Boxing is putting the push toward broader trans inclusion in reverse.

Third, adult boxers have to show they have have testosterone levels under 5 nmol/L for four years prior to competing. That four years is the longest wait period for any sport that allows trans women to compete in the female category.

Now USA Boxing is facing widespread criticism for the policy — at this point the strictest in sports (other than outright bans).

On one side, people are critical that the ban has any path to participation for trans women in boxing’s female category. Whether the policy mandated four years or 10 years of HRT,

“I will never agree to this,” said former world champion Ebanie Bridges. “It’s bad enough having trans women breaking records in other sports like track and field, swimming and power lifting but it’s a bit different to them breaking our skulls in combat sports where the aim is to HURT YOU not just break a record.”

The “skulls” line has been used to target trans athletes in combat sports ever since Fallon Fox, competing in professional mixed martial arts six years after her transition, broke the eye orbital of an opponent. Critics say she broke her “skull” simply because it sounds worse.

“Hormone therapy is banned,” professional boxer Mikaela Mayer said on X. “By default, this should make trans athletes ineligible for competition. Doesn’t matter how you feel about the situation, fact is, it’s illegal and completely disrupts the even playing field that sport works so hard to create.”

Riley Gaines, the former college swimmer who came to prominence arguing publicly against trans women in female sports after competing against Lia Thomas, said a trans woman will end up killing a female boxer.

“Mark my words, it will take a woman getting killed before these misogynistic fools wake up.”

Dozens of boxers have been killed by cisgender boxers during matches, including a number of women. Major injuries are already a consistent aspect of the sport, before any trans woman steps into the female pro-boxing ring.

For trans advocates, this will be viewed as a setback. While there is a path to participation for trans women in the female category, the mandated surgery and four years of mandated HRT will be considered overly restrictive.

As mentioned, Fox did have surgery and six years of HRT before competing in professional MMA. So it is possible. Yet it’s a far cry from the one- or two-year mandates and no surgery that have been the most common guidelines over the last few years.

USA Boxing seems to be trying to thread the needle here, create a way for trans women to compete, but also raise the barrier to entry high enough to stave off some critics.

In the end, their policy will simply **** off everyone involved in this debate.

Boxing (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?54079-Boxing)
Fallon Fox (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?65467-Fallon-Fox)