Laap sao DRILL

[k gledhill]

A short clip of a drill, not competing or sparring just mutual improvement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpuyUaBaH04&sns=em

[BPWT]

I quite like the PB clips that are posted - and there are quite a few that are posted ;)

But a quick question. In clips of drills like this (lap sao) often PB is on the attack and the student is defending, often without countering - which allows PB to string together a fairly unbroken attacking flow.

Is this the way some of these drills are deliberately approached? (i.e. one person assumes a largely attacking role, and the other assumes a largely defensive role)

For example, from the roll/cycle of lap sao (or poon sao in chi sao for that matter), PB is almost always the one to attack and to attack first (or create a new angle to attack).

Not criticizing it (this approach can have some value when learning specifics), just asking :)

[Graham H]

I quite like the PB clips that are posted - and there are quite a few that are posted ;)

But a quick question. In clips of drills like this (lap sao) often PB is on the attack and the student is defending, often without countering - which allows PB to string together a fairly unbroken attacking flow.

Is this the way some of these drills are deliberately approached? (i.e. one person assumes a largely attacking role, and the other assumes a largely defensive role)

For example, from the roll/cycle of lap sao (or poon sao in chi sao for that matter), PB is almost always the one to attack and to attack first (or create a new angle to attack).

Not criticizing it (this approach can have some value when learning specifics), just asking :)

It is not possible to counter him is why. Whatever you try and do he is always one step ahead and gives you no time to settle. If you were there in person you would appreciate the time he spends correcting your errors and explaining the do's and don'ts of Lap Sau.

Lap Sau is only and drill for development and improvement. In order for one to improve your Teacher must co-operate and allow you to complete your actions but he must also give you good force, speed and structure so you can develop a behaviour for fighting.

This is only a video clip and I wish people would stop trying to read into what is happening. If you want to know then you can go and see first hand and then you can discuss with and then the whole thing becomes clear.

It is not possible to draw conclusions from video clips!

[Frost]

It is not possible to counter him is why. Whatever you try and do he is always one step ahead and gives you no time to settle. If you were there in person you would appreciate the time he spends correcting your errors and explaining the do's and don'ts of Lap Sau.

Lap Sau is only and drill for development and improvement. In order for one to improve your Teacher must co-operate and allow you to complete your actions but he must also give you good force, speed and structure so you can develop a behaviour for fighting.

This is only a video clip and I wish people would stop trying to read into what is happening. If you want to know then you can go and see first hand and then you can discuss with and then the whole thing becomes clear.

It is not possible to draw conclusions from video clips!

seriously you are writing this after what you and kevin have said over the eyars about video clips form the likes of Alan Orr, Phil etc:eek:

[BPWT]

It is not possible to counter him is why. Whatever you try and do he is always one step ahead and gives you no time to settle. If you were there in person you would appreciate the time he spends correcting your errors and explaining the do's and don'ts of Lap Sau.

Yes, when someone is at a much higher level then it is very hard to counter. I asked only because in the clip the student very rarely tried to counter. That's why I asked if it was a characteristic of the drill. And yes, I agree, if I was there it would make much more sense to me. I am not saying PB is a bad teacher - he looks like a great teacher!


Lap Sau is only and drill for development and improvement. In order for one to improve your Teacher must co-operate and allow you to complete your actions but he must also give you good force, speed and structure so you can develop a behaviour for fighting.

Not disagreeing with you :)


This is only a video clip and I wish people would stop trying to read into what is happening. If you want to know then you can go and see first hand and then you can discuss with and then the whole thing becomes clear. It is not possible to draw conclusions from video clips!

I'm trying to 'read into what is happening' to understand it better - I was asking what is happening from people who have experienced it. I'm not in Germany but some of you guys have been, so I was just asking to try and understand better.

Asking for PB guys to help me draw a correct conclusion from the video, as I am not there to experience it first hand. But you know this ;) The videos posted of PB are not posted just for PB students to watch, surely? I train in a different line of the art, see these clips and find them interesting... so sometimes I ask a question to try and understand the clips better.

Not attacking the WSLPB method. Just wanted to understand the clip a bit better.

[k gledhill]

Every exchange is attack & counter attack, interception is by position of the elbow so it does look like PB strings actions together as he maintains correct angles and alignment. Thomas is trying , you can see PB make counter angles etc....as it happens.
Conditioning is important for the punching elbow angle and various Pak, jut, jum, bong/wu , cheun sao , etc. add to that stance angling , shifting in balanced power to counter and attack at speed.

[Vajramusti]

Repeat of the same PB clips!!

[Graham H]

Repeat of the same PB clips!!

Why don't you put something up Joy for once instead of continually jumping on the bandwagon!?

[Graham H]

seriously you are writing this after what you and kevin have said over the eyars about video clips form the likes of Alan Orr, Phil etc:eek:

Yes I am! The difference in Alan's (and the likes of) clips is that they talk in theirs so you can have an opinion that carries more weight! Philipp gives no explanations of what he is is trying to achieve or any conversation with the student and/or training partner.

[Graham H]

I asked only because in the clip the student very rarely tried to counter.

Believe me he is trying to counter and have an exchange


I'm trying to 'read into what is happening' to understand it better - I was asking what is happening from people who have experienced it. I'm not in Germany but some of you guys have been, so I was just asking to try and understand better.

It's not possible to "understand" those clips. There is no dialogue and it is only a snippit of the whole afternoon.

[Graham H]

The videos posted of PB are not posted just for PB students to watch, surely?

No they are not but within the mass of people that watch them there will be some that are curious to go and find out more as I did. Then there is only looking backwards to the previous mess that was practiced before. ;)

[BPWT]

Philipp gives no explanations of what he is is trying to achieve or any conversation with the student and/or training partner.

:D I understand what you're saying, but that still cracked me up. I take back what I said about PB being what looked like a good teacher. (just kidding)

All in all, fair enough - I was interested in understanding better, but I don't feel the need to know so bad that I'll visit Germany.

Personally, I think it ought to be possible to watch a clip and get some understanding from it, if a) you train the same art, b) someone is willing to offer some explanation to help out with background/context/role, etc.

[Vajramusti]

No they are not but within the mass of people that watch them there will be some that are curious to go and find out more as I did. Then there is only looking backwards to the previous mess that was practiced before. ;)
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More unabashed recruitment efforts. More of the same.

[Frost]

Yes I am! The difference in Alan's (and the likes of) clips is that they talk in theirs so you can have an opinion that carries more weight! Philipp gives no explanations of what he is is trying to achieve or any conversation with the student and/or training partner.

Phillip might not but Kevin gives plenty of commentary about what PBs kung fu is tying to achieve (as do you)

[Graham H]

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More unabashed recruitment efforts. More of the same.

As long as it keeps people like you at the other end of the planet then I am happy :)

[Graham H]

Phillip might not but Kevin gives plenty of commentary about what PBs kung fu is tying to achieve (as do you)

It's his choice and he will always have more of an idea than you on the subject because in this context you have no idea of what you are talking about me old china.

[Graham H]

if a) you train the same art,

There are only a few on this forum that train in the same art. Everybody else trains in different systems and therefore will bicker about the content within. It's normal for Wing Chun.

[BPWT]

There are only a few on this forum that train in the same art. Everybody else trains in different systems and therefore will bicker about the content within. It's normal for Wing Chun.

Well, no need to bicker... at least, not all the time. ;)

I train Wing Tsun, and yes there are differences in what you train and what I train, but I tend to think there are more similarities than differences. For example, a lot of what I see in some of the WSLPB videos is not too dissimilar to drills I practice.

And I remember watching a clip of WSL giving a seminar on SNT and applications based on SNT movements and ideas, that is also quite similar to what Leung Ting teaches.

The same? Of course not. Quite similar? Often!

[k gledhill]

Repeat of the same PB clips!!

Same **** over and over ..... ; )

[k gledhill]

Well, no need to bicker... at least, not all the time. ;)

I train Wing Tsun, and yes there are differences in what you train and what I train, but I tend to think there are more similarities than differences. For example, a lot of what I see in some of the WSLPB videos is not too dissimilar to drills I practice.

And I remember watching a clip of WSL giving a seminar on SNT and applications based on SNT movements and ideas, that is also quite similar to what Leung Ting teaches.

The same? Of course not. Quite similar? Often!

I have been to Germany doing clandestine seminars for WT guys seeking other teachers ;) I have experienced a lot of wt. the differences are great. Superficially we will see a tan and a bong etc. but after that totally different. PB was a wt guy before finding WSL.

[BPWT]

I have been to Germany doing clandestine seminars for WT guys seeking other teachers ;) I have experienced a lot of wt. the differences are great. Superficially we will see a tan and a bong etc. but after that totally different. PB was a wt guy before finding WSL.

I'm sure you have. :) (regarding seminars and experiences WT)

And yes, there are differences - some bigger than others, I would still contend.

Just saying, if you have been to Germany then you saw WT from the EWTO. This is WT as interpreted by Keith Kernspecht. He is free to teach his method, but I think it differs (esp. in recent years) from Leung Ting's teachings.

I understand that in Europe (Western) there have been quite a few WT guys that have moved over to the WSL method.

[Graham H]

I understand that in Europe (Western) there have been quite a few WT guys that have moved over to the WSL method.

There is a very good reason for that.

[k gledhill]

It seems some are judging PB's chi sao clips by their own (different) standards, where chi sao may have a more competitive flavour?
Philipp is teaching very specific ideas here. Lap sao and chi sao in WSLPBVT, are not competitive, ego driven proving grounds. They are co-operative, constructive, training methods that help to develop the students fighting ability, by revealing (and correcting) errors, and developing advantageous behaviour, that can be further developed in goh sao, and sparring.
Chi Sao should help to build and develop a students abilities, rather than stifle or hinder them.
You my look at a clip and think, "I would have got in there" or analyse and critique the way Philipps partners respond.
Well first... You wouldn't have got in there...trust me... Philipp can make very skilled people make numerous errors. That's what he does.
Second, thats not the point.... When chi sao degrades into ego driven tit-for-tat nonsense you end up with people holding on to each others arms, with desperation, that (god forbid) the other guy might actually "get one in".

Meeting Philipp made me wonder what the hell I had been doing ; )
( welcome ' T ' )

[BPWT]

There is a very good reason for that.

For sure. Though sometimes I wonder why people train for so long in something but don't go 'the extra mile' to really open up what they were learning (or should have been learning). Urgh. Politics.

[poulperadieux]

It is not possible to counter him is why. Whatever you try and do he is always one step ahead and gives you no time to settle. If you were there in person you would appreciate the time he spends correcting your errors and explaining the do's and don'ts of Lap Sau.

Lap Sau is only and drill for development and improvement. In order for one to improve your Teacher must co-operate and allow you to complete your actions but he must also give you good force, speed and structure so you can develop a behaviour for fighting.

This is only a video clip and I wish people would stop trying to read into what is happening. If you want to know then you can go and see first hand and then you can discuss with and then the whole thing becomes clear.

It is not possible to draw conclusions from video clips!

Hey, calm down...

He was respectful and polite.


In all the videos we see with Bayer, it's the same motto, he's dominating his students in every openings.
So it's normal, as you communicate like this, to ask questions on how your teacher teaches.

I was taught a different way as a teacher, to let openings and guide your students though them.


But of course, when in a fight with a student, you give less mercy, to teach them a fighting spirit according to what they can do when they can do it.

But I don't do it in chi sao or lat sao, I don't want my students to think that's where and how we fight.

[Graham H]

Hey, calm down...

He was respectful and polite.


In all the videos we see with Bayer, it's the same motto, he's dominating his students in every openings.
So it's normal, as you communicate like this, to ask questions on how your teacher teaches.

I was taught a different way as a teacher, to let openings and guide your students though them.


But of course, when in a fight with a student, you give less mercy, to teach them a fighting spirit according to what they can do when they can do it.

But I don't do it in chi sao or lat sao, I don't want my students to think that's where and how we fight.

FFS! We are just going around in circles as usual.

The videos that are put up of PB are just snippits from seminars. Nobody on this forum bar a few knows how he teaches. Like you they watch the videos and draw incorrect conclusions. How can you know what goes on unless you go to? Simple, you cannot!

I'm out of this thread.

Au revoir

[Happy Tiger]

Not only is sifu Philipp Bayer plainly skilled and talented, I am always inspired by his positive attitude and joy in chi sau . His encouraging attitude is infectious and a mark of good stock.

[wingchunIan]

The videos that are put up of PB are just snippits from seminars. Nobody on this forum bar a few knows how he teaches. Like you they watch the videos and draw incorrect conclusions. How can you know what goes on unless you go to? Simple, you cannot!


here's a radical idea maybe those few could explain......:p

[Ali. R]

Not only is sifu Philipp Bayer plainly skilled and talented, I am always inspired by his positive attitude and joy in chi sau . His encouraging attitude is infectious and a mark of good stock.

Then why are those; whom made contact with him as students/followers (on this forum) have so much negative aggression and contempt towards other families of wing chun, are they not of his stock?

Or is it the case of he’s apple falling very far from the tree?

And what does he say and teaches that make his people react the way they do to others?


Ali

[Happy Tiger]

Then why are those; whom made contact with him as students/followers (on this forum) have so much negative aggression and contempt towards other families of wing chun, are they not of his stock?

Or is it the case of he’s apple falling very far from the tree?

And what does he say and teaches that make his people react the way they do to others?


Ali>shrug< ya got me.Sweet Jesus, protect me from your followers.:)

[poulperadieux]

Then why are those; whom made contact with him as students/followers (on this forum) have so much negative aggression and contempt towards other families of wing chun, are they not of his stock?

Or is it the case of he’s apple falling very far from the tree?

And what does he say and teaches that make his people react the way they do to others?


Ali


Yeap,

I never had a normal conversation with someone from Philip Bayer lineage.

They seem all hot blooded, and fast to go berserk when we just ask question about what they do...

If they like action so much, I know some people from thai boxing they should visit to redescend on earth.

Wing Chun talks too big, Thai are more modest, and they rule the world.

[Happy Tiger]

Then why are those; whom made contact with him as students/followers (on this forum) have so much negative aggression and contempt towards other families of wing chun, are they not of his stock?

Or is it the case of he’s apple falling very far from the tree?

And what does he say and teaches that make his people react the way they do to others?


Ali
I gotta admit, as a WSLer myself this house not just PB attracts a particularly >ahem< pugnacious group. Being from multiple houses, following one way tenaciously just doesn't work for me or arguing for it either. I don't personally agree 100 percent with any of my formally trained houses approach. Like all good sifu, PB tells it as he sees it but doesn't put down other houses as far as I know. What students do with it or represent is another thing.
PS. I like your clips...eccept for that candle thing but I weighed in on that already:) You have a good way of transmiting information and good structure.Not trying to blow sunshine around or anything:cool:

[Graham H]

Yeap,

I never had a normal conversation with someone from Philip Bayer lineage.

They seem all hot blooded, and fast to go berserk when we just ask question about what they do...

If they like action so much, I know some people from thai boxing they should visit to redescend on earth.

Wing Chun talks too big, Thai are more modest, and they rule the world.

What's a normal conversation where this forum is concerned. It's not possible! :confused:

<<<<start hot blooded rant>>>>.......WTF are you on about anyway? You know some Thai boxers that will beat us up? Is that it? You clown. :)

I imagine that your cloudy mind has some funny ideas about other things as well lolol

FWIW I had exactly the same opinion about the PB lineage up until I went to see for myself (how many times have I got to say that?) and things were very different to what I thought they would be. That wasn't helped by a previous WSL Teacher that used to try and discredit PB all the time.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=Graham H;1218146]
FWIW I had exactly the same opinion about the PB lineage up until I went to see for myself (how many times have I got to say that?)
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Good for you and good that you found a way that you like. But why repeat that again and again and again?

[Graham H]

Good for you and good that you found a way that you like. But why repeat that again and again and again?

I've got a st....stt.....sstttt......st...stttaa.....sssttttt tammmmeerr!

[Wayfaring]

FWIW I had exactly the same opinion about the PB lineage up until I went to see for myself (how many times have I got to say that?) and things were very different to what I thought they would be. That wasn't helped by a previous WSL Teacher that used to try and discredit PB all the time.

So what happened? You were a young somewhat inexperienced whippersnapper who just learned SNT and the mean man PB boxed your ears for you?

[JPinAZ]

Good for you and good that you found a way that you like. But why repeat that again and again and again?

Maybe he's just trying to convince himself? :p

[BPWT]

As a few people here have said that they visited PB and were impressed/had a complete re-think regarding their Wing Chun, maybe Kevin or Graham (or anyone else) could write a post/create a thread, explaining how that first meeting with PB went?

What was it you liked? How did it differ from what you saw/trained before?

I think in Kevin's case he learned originally from Viktor Kan (a direct student of Yip Man). So a comparison would make for really interesting reading.

Yes, it could be a little political - but WTF, most threads on this forum slip into an argument anyways.

My personal experience is perhaps a little similar to Graham's and Kevin's. I experienced Wing Tsun in Eastern Europe, and later experienced WT from various West European countries - and realized that what I see coming from Eastern Europe and Hong Kong (and in some cases from the US too), fits better with me/makes more sense to me/is more of an eye opener.

I have no particular interest in learning PB's VT, but I would like to visit him if I had the chance - just for the fun of seeing it/feeling it first hand. But as that isn't possible at the moment, maybe Kevin and Graham could talk about their experience?

[Graham H]

Maybe he's just trying to convince himself? :p

I would have no problem "convinvcing" you and Joy if you were close. No problem at all! :cool:

[Graham H]

So what happened? You were a young somewhat inexperienced whippersnapper who just learned SNT and the mean man PB boxed your ears for you?


Exactly that. In fact I am yet to be taught Chum Kiu.

I have read many of you posts over the last year and you are undoubtledly one of the foremost authorities on Wing Chun on this forum. Your ideas are so easy to understand and make perfect sense. There were many gaps before but you have filled them all. Sometimes after reading your input I leave this forum with a pleasent little smile on my face knowing that bI have moved forward in my life.

After all theses wasted years........

<<<gets down on one knee and holds a cup of cha aloft>>>>>

.......Sifu Wayfaring? Will you be my new Teacher?

Please say yes or I will have to ask Joy and I'm not ready for those sorts of heights yet.

[Wayfaring]

.......Sifu Wayfaring? Will you be my new Teacher?


No. But I will say a little prayer for whoever it is that IS your teacher. And offer up a little incense for him.

Because that job has to be on up there with cleaning up after the elephants at the circus.

[JPinAZ]

I would have no problem "convinvcing" you and Joy if you were close. No problem at all! :cool:

Wow - how old are you, 12? 13? I think you are running a close race with Hendrik for most pointless & idiotic posts on KFO...

Scratch that, I think you just took first place. What a tool.

[Graham H]

Wow - how old are you, 12? 13? I think you are running a close race with Hendrik for most pointless & idiotic posts on KFO...

Scratch that, I think you just took first place. What a tool.

Is that it? That is the best you have to compare me to Hendrik and call me a tool? :D:D:D

Good stuff. I'm impressed.

[LaRoux]

I'm still waiting for someone to provide some evidence of lop sao ever being used in full contact settings.

[Graham H]

No. But I will say a little prayer for whoever it is that IS your teacher.

Ha! You're nearly as good as Jonathon Pen1s in Arizona. Funny guys for sure. Thick as two short planks but funny. :)

[Graham H]

Sooner or later something like this may happen on here :):)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/12/english-boxer-curtis-woodhouse-twitter-troll

[Vajramusti]

I'm still waiting for someone to provide some evidence of lop sao ever being used in full contact settings.
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Too bad

[LaRoux]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Too bad

Lop saos are the Loch Ness monsters of martial arts. Lot of people believe they are there, but no one has yet provided real evidence of their existence in the real world outside of the confines of the secret training studio.

[Graham H]

Lop saos are the Loch Ness monsters of martial arts. Lot of people believe they are there, but no one has yet provided real evidence of their existence in the real world outside of the confines of the secret training studio.

What is lop sau?

[GlennR]

What is lop sau?

A technique almost as deadly as knob sau

[Graham H]

A technique almost as deadly as knob sau

I think lop sau and knob sau are the same thing :)

[Vajramusti]

I think lop sau and knob sau are the same thing :)
---------------------------
You lopped the right sao on the knob.

[GlennR]

---------------------------
You lopped the right sao on the knob.

He's always been a lopper Joy ;)

[k gledhill]

Laroux what's lop sao ?

[anerlich]

Wow - how old are you, 12? 13? I think you are running a close race with Hendrik for most pointless & idiotic posts on KFO...

Scratch that, I think you just took first place. What a tool.

Oh, come on. No one comes close to Hendrik and his 1850 videos.

robinhood - distant second.

[Graham H]

Oh, come on. No one comes close to Hendrik and his 1850 videos.

robinhood - distant second.

No bother. Jonathon was just having a moment :D

[Graham H]

He's always been a lopper Joy ;)

A lopper? Nice. I'm having that. Wing Chun is full of loppers. It even sounds Australian. :)

[GlennR]

A lopper? Nice. I'm having that. Wing Chun is full of loppers. It even sounds Australian. :)

Glad you like it... now lop off

[Graham H]

Glad you like it... now lop off

No you lop off you lopper!

It's also very childish which fits right in with your general level of posting. :D

[GlennR]

No you lop off you lopper!

It's also very childish which fits right in with your general level of posting. :D

Youre right, my posts always end up lop sided...........

Bwahahhahhahaahahha!!

[Graham H]

Youre right, my posts always end up lop sided...........

Bwahahhahhahaahahha!!

Ha!

Still awaiting La Roux for his explanation on Lop Sau.

[GlennR]

Ha!

Still awaiting La Roux for his explanation on Lop Sau.

Yes... i cant wait for his answer to deveLOP........ bwahahahahah!

[Graham H]

Its not coming very fast. Where is he? Maybe he has eLOPed.

[Vajramusti]

Its not coming very fast. Where is he? Maybe he has eLOPed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not to worry there will be lots of flip fLOPpimg on this topic

[Graham H]

I expect his post will be full of codswalLOP. A slippery sLOPpy sLOPe into oblivion because he is an encycLOPedia of gLOPpiness.

Ba dum tsh!

[Wayfaring]

As a few people here have said that they visited PB and were impressed/had a complete re-think regarding their Wing Chun, maybe Kevin or Graham (or anyone else) could write a post/create a thread, explaining how that first meeting with PB went?


Graham's would probably include: "as I gazed softly into his eyes, I knew my life would never be the same".

:D :D :D

And if he continues to be a wanker, I may just have to have a go at writing this one up for him. ;)

[Graham H]

I may just have to have a go at writing this one up for him. ;)

Have a go is right! Obviously with the help of a dictionary and spell checker.

You better get writing so I can expect a copy by Xmas. :rolleyes:

[Ali. R]

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Not to worry there will be lots of flip fLOPpimg on this topic


Man Oh Manischewitz!

Ali

[k gledhill]

Laroux laap sao is a drill encompassing a multifaceted attack & counter attack exchange, it isn't one thing. There are 10 basic exchanges even before adding random angling and movement. To say you haven't seen it in full contact is .... agenda busting.

[Wayfaring]

Have a go is right! Obviously with the help of a dictionary and spell checker.

You better get writing so I can expect a copy by Xmas. :rolleyes:

For you I might even need a rhyming dictionary. :D

Unfortunately work is a bit stacked up at the moment, so Xmas is probably a reasonable estimate on that one.

[Graham H]

For you I might even need a rhyming dictionary. :D

Unfortunately work is a bit stacked up at the moment, so Xmas is probably a reasonable estimate on that one.

Oooooooooooooooooooooo I can't wait.

[Jansingsang]

Laroux laap sao is a drill encompassing a multifaceted attack & counter attack exchange, it isn't one thing. There are 10 basic exchanges even before adding random angling and movement. To say you haven't seen it in full contact is .... agenda busting.

Iam Intrigued what are the basic 10 exchanges ? I might learn something today after all Yepee:D

[Vajramusti]

Iam Intrigued what are the basic 10 exchanges ? I might learn something today after all Yepee:D
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10 etc/ Counting can vary.

If the lop sau interaction is developed well-- many kinds of applications can follow...depending on the timing used.

[Wayfaring]

Oooooooooooooooooooooo I can't wait.

I'll include that quote as background. A little slow jazz track, with a Keith Sweat voice-over.

"The Day I Met PB"

Can you feel it?

Uh.

[k gledhill]

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10 etc/ Counting can vary.

If the lop sau interaction is developed well-- many kinds of applications can follow...depending on the timing used.

Don't think he was asking you Joy , thread jumper.

[Vajramusti]

Don't think he was asking you Joy , thread jumper.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Despite your deletion activities-you are not a moderator.

[k gledhill]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Despite your deletion activities-you are not a moderator.

Here you go again ? What t f ?

[Jansingsang]

Don't think he was asking you Joy , thread jumper.

Correct i asked you Kevin and still none the wiser. All this bickering is rather iritating

this is a forum of sharing knowledge and ideas All we getting here is handbag swingers :(

[Vajramusti]

Correct i asked you Kevin and still none the wiser. All this bickering is rather iritating

this is a forum of sharing knowledge and ideas All we getting here is handbag swingers :(-----


--------------------------------------------Nothing is preventing Kevin from answering your question!!

[Graham H]

I'll include that quote as background. A little slow jazz track, with a Keith Sweat voice-over.

"The Day I Met PB"

Can you feel it?

Uh.

You are thinking about it too much :confused::eek:

[GlennR]

-----


--------------------------------------------Nothing is preventing Kevin from answering your question!!

Yeh, but their bickering is superior to your non-PBWSLVT bickering Joy!!

You need to galLOP over to Germany to get the real skillzzzz ;)

[Graham H]

Yeh, but their bickering is superior to your non-PBWSLVT bickering Joy!!

You need to galLOP over to Germany to get the real skillzzzz ;)


That would be something entertaining to watch . Poor Joy :D

[GlennR]

That would be something entertaining to watch . Poor Joy :D

Nah, i reckon he would walLOP you..........

Bwahahahahahah!

[Graham H]

Nah, i reckon he would walLOP you..........

Bwahahahahahah!

He may have to get in shape first :D

[GlennR]

He may have to get in shape first :D

He'll have to cut back on the scalLOPs

[Graham H]

He'll have to cut back on the scalLOPs

He'll have to redeveLOP his phsique

[Vajramusti]

He'll have to redeveLOP his phsique
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Thanks but my walLOP works just fine!!