Gripping the Jian

[MightyB]

I've heard conflicting info about gripping the jian.

Some say to grip tightly with the thumb and index finger and loosely with the remaining fingers,

some say to grip loosely with the index and middle fingers and tightly with ring and pinky.

Which is correct?

[David Jamieson]

Is this a euphemism?

[MightyB]

Is this a euphemism?

LOL, no I'm being serious.

I've been like a ronin doing things my own way for like 10 years and may have developed some bad habits I'm looking to correct.

[David Jamieson]

Sword is to keep the hand relaxed with index finger touching thumb but not pressing hard or tightly. Touching.

The other fingers are relaxed but ready to retain or command the sword at the slightest motion or touch.

[MightyB]

Sword is to keep the hand relaxed with index finger touching thumb but not pressing hard or tightly. Touching.

The other fingers are relaxed but ready to retain or command the sword at the slightest motion or touch.

Thanks. I haven't practiced Jian in quite a long time and it's amazing how fast you forget the little things. I'm looking to start back up with it - so starting with day 1 tonight, there should only be 9999 before I get the basics down.

[lkfmdc]

first you must learn to braid the dan dao

then to put pork on the altar

only then can you learn to grip the jian

[lkfmdc]

Only on this forum did I know I wud find these posts just by reading the title of the thread, lol

did you now? ;)

[David Jamieson]

Thanks. I haven't practiced Jian in quite a long time and it's amazing how fast you forget the little things. I'm looking to start back up with it - so starting with day 1 tonight, there should only be 9999 before I get the basics down.

Well, asides from forms, there are main guiding principles to a sword.

With a double edge it tends to stick to four paths/principles and they are:

1) Thrust (think push)
2) Draw (think slicing across action)
3) Flip (think clock hand moving)
4) Rotate (think turn the wrist like a screwdriver)

Then there are ranges and levels(height, not guru/student etc)of application of these.
Also, there are some more refined moves like Tapping and lifting.

Tapping is the overhand of sword work. Whereby you tap the closet target (generally the other swordsman's wrists) with your longest reach.

Lifting is doing a similar motion but from below. There are other refinements beyond these as well, but those are the "big" basics.

[lkfmdc]

Smack it up, flip it, rub it down, oh, no

[MightyB]

Smack it up, flip it, rub it down, oh, no

Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast!
http://grizzlybomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/anchorman.gif

[bawang]

I've heard conflicting info about gripping the jian.

Some say to grip tightly with the thumb and index finger and loosely with the remaining fingers,

some say to grip loosely with the index and middle fingers and tightly with ring and pinky.

Which is correct?

have u sparred wit it

[MightyB]

have u sparred wit it

not yet - I have to relearn the basics and then I'm looking to pick up a pair of those polypropylene swords that have come out recently so I can spar. I figure at least one of my old kung fu buddies will be up to the challenge when I move back to my hometown next month.

especially if I buy the equipment ;)

[MightyB]

I'm thinking about taking my shirt off when I practice so I can post a pic in the sword hotties thread.

[bawang]

u need to get a wooden post and smack it with a stick. its basic training.

[jdhowland]

u need to get a wooden post and smack it with a stick. its basic training.

Oh, please don't go there.


Medial side flexion allows for rolling the wrist and slicing as well as ci. Ulnar side flexion allows you to accelerate the point for pek and "dotting."

Hitting the post isn't such a bad idea after all. Even if it isn't jian technique it conditions the hand and wrist for a good grip.

[jdhowland]

not yet - I have to relearn the basics and then I'm looking to pick up a pair of those polypropylene swords that have come out recently so I can spar. I figure at least one of my old kung fu buddies will be up to the challenge when I move back to my hometown next month.

especially if I buy the equipment ;)

Have you tried these yet? I really like them. They are a little more slippery than steel but have a good balance and weight. And worth the price. After about three years I still haven't broken one.

btw I see jian training as valuable for developing qualities other than combat training. The methods were developed in the last few centuries for this new lightweight implement and aren't based on combat skills. It does represent good kungfu, though.

[GeneChing]

The Contact-Guard Grip - Strong Support for the Tai Chi Sword (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1052) by Robert Dreeben, with photos by Amada Alcantara

[bawang]

Hitting the post isn't such a bad idea after all.

hitting the post is basic training

stabbing is hard to be accurate, if you dont train you get wobbly wrist

[Lucas]

I like to hold firm with my pinky and ring finger, but not so tight as to fatigue, my middle finger is wrapped but not pressed as firmly and my index and thumb are light, but wrapped. this is pretty much how i hold any weapon. of course this is just a standard in guard grip, really depends on what you're doing your grips change regularly. you'll tighten and loosen as appropriate. this is just what ive found works for me, i dont really care what other people do.

[Scott R. Brown]

Gripping firmly with the ring and little finger and loosely with the index and middle finger is the traditional manner of gripping a katana!

[wenshu]

Scaramouche was the first "sword" movie I ever saw and made such a strong impression on me; well, at least the fencing parts - there may have been some dialogue/other scenes/plot, but I'm not sure ;)

What is this movie?

Internet, please advise.

[Lucas]

Gripping firmly with the ring and little finger and loosely with the index and middle finger is the traditional manner of gripping a katana!

shut up asswipe.


;)

[jdhowland]

shut up asswipe.


;)

You're dead! You're not allowed to make rude comments from beyond the veil!

[Lucas]

It's a term of endearment where I come from, I swear!!! The unliving have a very different value system!

[jdhowland]

It's a term of endearment where I come from, I swear!!! The unliving have a very different value system!

Okay, I'll accept that. Most of the draugar I've met seem pretty decent types.

[Scott R. Brown]

What is this movie?

Internet, please advise.

Kids these days!!:rolleyes:


shut up asswipe.


;)

Your jealousy of my clean a$$ is showing!:p

Or did you mean A$$ swipe! That is just a weekend hobby!

[Lucas]

Just don't mess with my treasure or I'll curse you.

[GeneChing]

What is this movie?

Internet, please advise.

Choreographed by Fred Cavens, a noted fencing master of the day. He did a lot of the classic swashbucklers from the '50s, Zorro, Three Musketeers, Cyrano, and of course, the Errol Flynn classic, Captain Blood.

Scaramouche trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-QbO0bCf3c)

[B.Tunks]

In my understanding you grip it in a manner similar to holding a pistol with the handle 45 degrees across the palm and the index coming up onto the guard (like a trigger finger). Jian is never to be held like a bat and the grip is obviously different to the dao. The pressure/grip tightness across the hand changes with various techniques, as does the finger and thumb position – for example on some stabbing moves the thumb presses forward onto the guard. Generally the fulcrum is between the ‘tiger’s mouth’ and the inside edge of the ring finger and the main controlling fingers are the index, ring and thumb, followed by the pinky. The 2nd last finger always sits on the handle and is the lower lever, especially in movements such as dian where the pinky comes into play and is usually only relaxed in movements such as beng. The palm heel is also a controller.

BT

[SPJ]

flexibility is the key.

there are several ways to hold the jian.

not one way above all the other ways.

when you ci (pierce)

when you yun (cloud)

when you chan (entangle)

when you jiao (twist)

---

you hold your jian differently.

:)

[Lucas]

flexibility is the key.

there are several ways to hold the jian.

not one way above all the other ways.

when you ci (pierce)

when you yun (cloud)

when you chan (entangle)

when you jiao (twist)

---

you hold your jian differently.

:)

Right!!!!!!!

[bawang]

you can also wrap your fingers around the guard, you can "punch" with the sword.

[B.Tunks]

you can also wrap your fingers around the guard, you can "punch" with the sword.

Definitely.

[David Jamieson]

You can also reverse the grip entirely and slash and punch with the resulting positioned weapon.

There's lots of little things.

When working with weapons, the main thing is retention of the weapon and good basics in the use of it. the rest is gravy in many respects as it is unlikely you will be facing another swordsman when you bring out your sword.

But if you do, Kung Fu is your friend because it is one of the few martial arts available that deals with these weapons and many others.

Sure, other ma's have weapons, but not with the depth and complexity and variety of TCMA.

be wary of a kung fu school that doesn't teach at the very least staff and broadsword.