The Best ...

[David Jamieson]

Punch is: Straight punch - elbow down.

Kick is: ?

Throw is: ?

Lock is: ?

I start with straight punch. This is because it is the direct straight simple strike with natural and no need to study alignment etc. Dead simple, totally effective. It is the go to punch of punches.

[-N-]

PunchThis is because it is the direct straight simple strike with natural and no need to study alignment etc.

Simple perhaps, but people seem to find a lot of ways to do it poorly.


PunchIt is the go to punch of punches.

Yep.

[Brule]

Or? how about the one that works for you at that moment in time...:p

[Kellen Bassette]

I'm not going to say the best, that is certainly open for a lot of debate...but my favorites are...cross, side thrust kick, hip toss, RNC..(does that count as a lock?)

[YouKnowWho]

I'm not going to say the best, that is certainly open for a lot of debate...

As long as the moves that you mention here have been used in UFC, you will be quite safe. Sometime to prevent a debating from happening is much easier than to let it to start and then spend 20 pages to end it.

[Kellen Bassette]

As long as the moves that you mention here have been used in UFC, you will be quite safe. Sometime to prevent a debating from happening is much easier than to let it to start and then spend 20 pages to end it.

LOL so true...but I'll never be able to pass them off as TCMA...:rolleyes:

[YouKnowWho]

LOL so true...but I'll never be able to pass them off as TCMA...:rolleyes:

As long as you use the modern terms. In stead of using the TCMA term

- "Python around the neck", you use the modern term "RNC".
- "reverse head lock", you use the modern term "guillotine".
- "leg seize", you use the modern term "ankle pick".
- "knee seize", you use the modern term "single leg".
- "comb the hair", you use the modern term "crazy monkey".
- "back reverse punch", you use the modern term "cross".
- ...

[David Jamieson]

I am thinking in terms of what is energy efficient, time efficient and doesn't compromise another part of the self.

But yes, otherwise, what you are in position to do will dictate the technique used.

For kick, I would say shovel.

the shovel kick or jamming kick takes little effort, little energy and doesn't demand a postural shift. It just shoots out and jams the incoming so long as it is timed right. Simple, straight to the point.

I basically spent more than a few hours over time feeling my own body as I moved through techniques. the techniques that required the least amount of posture change, the least amount of muscular engagement and that got the most return for that small effort are what I determined to be "best".

the most complex, with the least force issued. I consider the worst.

[Yum Cha]

I see what you're looking for David, but I can't identify.
To me, its about expedience and efficiency as well, the simplest, most direct and efficient attacks. Every move or combination always has to pass the 'was it direct and efficient' test. blocks become strikes. Lifting an elbow is more direct than punching sometimes, dropping a knee better than kicking.
I totally agree in the principle of the simplest, most direct option at any and all points.
Add a bit of ruthless intent and you got supper!

[bawang]

modern combat sports is mathmatics. everything is streamlined and as efficient as possible.

[David Jamieson]

modern combat sports is mathmatics. everything is streamlined and as efficient as possible.

That is the idea. In Kung Fu this is also where it's at when you get down to it.

[MightyB]

modern combat sports is mathmatics. everything is streamlined and as efficient as possible.

That's true and what I was thinking with this question. It's hard to describe best offense because I think more in terms of high probability to create the best defense to allow for the best offense.

For example - combing the hair is the most efficient standing defense because most people are head hunters and once you got protecting your head down, then you don't have to worry a lot about the striking game.

The most common takedown defense is the sprawl, so you get that down you don't have to worry about being taken down so much (or do Judo, Sambo, or Shuai Jiao and develop a strong takedown / takedown defense over the course of time)

On the ground - master the basic defense for the most common attacks and pins - then you can be offensive without worrying to much about what the other guy is going to do.

[Shaolin]

There is no such thing as "the best", everything can be countered. It's situational and it's dependent on the players and who's better at the game at the time.

[YouKnowWho]

For example - combing the hair is the most efficient standing defense because most people are head hunters and once you got protecting your head down, then you don't have to worry a lot about the striking game.

The "combing the hair" should be combined with the arm wrapping, overhook, and head lock. Otherwise it may be too "defensive". In every single class of mine, we ask our opponents to use jab and cross to punch at our head. We then try to end with a clinch from there. It's such an important training that we want to be able to do that with almost eyes closed. One of my guys can reach to almost 80% successful rate on this.

Skill such as combing the hair, arm wrapping, overhook, head lock are not the major tools in your toolbox. But if you can use it well and quickly turn a striking game into a grappling game, you may not need that many striking tools in your toop box. Can you learn those skill from the solo form training? It's very difficult if not impossible IMO.

[GoldenBrain]

There is no such thing as "the best", everything can be countered. It's situational and it's dependent on the players and who's better at the game at the time.

I second this statement but I'll go ahead and give an answer to DJ's question. I can't pick only one for each category so I'll list just a few go to techniques that I like.

Punch: Straight punches for sure. Boxing jabs are fine as well as left hook and right cross.

Kick: Front snap, front thrust (more with the heal). I'm more of a blitzing off of 45's to straight line inside fighter so I mainly use kicks to create distance so I can reset and reestablish a bridge again to get back inside.

Throw: Hip toss and arm drag. Tomoe nage for the big guys who like to lean in.

Lock: Arm bars both standing and from the ground as well as center locks. Finger locks when you can grab them or have to peal a hand off of you.


...and then the rest of the tool box depending on the situation.

[YouKnowWho]

If I just want to develop one technique only, I'll choose the "foot sweep". Old Chinese saying said, "If you are good at foot sweep, you should be able to handle 80% of your problem". Since people always have to step in to punch you, the chance for you to sweep his advancing leg is always there.

[Robinhood]

If I just want to develop one technique only, I'll choose the "foot sweep". Old Chinese saying said, "If you are good at foot sweep, you should be able to handle 80% of your problem". Since people always have to step in to punch you, the chance for you to sweep his advancing leg is always there.

If it works so good, why don't you see it being used in UFC .?, Only leg kicks .?

[Kellen Bassette]

front jamming kicks using the instep.

Can you explain this technique?

[Kellen Bassette]

If it works so good, why don't you see it being used in UFC .?

Most of the UFC fighters are focusing on chain punches and push hands. :p

[Robinhood]

Most of the UFC fighters are focusing on chain punches and push hands. :p

Ya, they are doing a lot of push hands on the ground now, they are getting better all the time.

[YouKnowWho]

If it works so good, why don't you see it being used in UFC .?, Only leg kicks .?
This is not true. The "foot sweep" is considered as one of the 10 best signiture moves used in UFC. It's rated #5. If you are good at it, you can turn a stand up fight into a ground game quickly.

#10 - Flying Guard Pull
#9 - Slam
#8 - Leg Locks
#7 - Hammer Fists
#6 - Looping Overhand Right
#5 - Foot Sweeps
#4 - Thai Clinch
#3 - Head Kicks
#2 - Armbar
#1 - Liver Shot

http://www.cagepotato.com/10-best-signature-moves-mma/

In your opinion, is there such thing as "internal foot sweep" vs. "external foot sweep"?

[SevenStar]

This is not true. The "foot sweep" is considered as one of the 10 best signiture moves used in UFC. It's rated #5. If you are good at it, you can turn a stand up fight into a ground game quickly.

#10 - Flying Guard Pull
#9 - Slam
#8 - Leg Locks
#7 - Hammer Fists
#6 - Looping Overhand Right
#5 - Foot Sweeps
#4 - Thai Clinch
#3 - Head Kicks
#2 - Armbar
#1 - Liver Shot

http://www.cagepotato.com/10-best-signature-moves-mma/

In your opinion, is there such thing as "internal foot sweep" vs. "external foot sweep"?

Yeah, there is. O Soto gari, o uchi gari, Ko Soto gari, Ko uchi gari, etc.

[YouKnowWho]

Yeah, there is. O Soto gari, o uchi gari, Ko Soto gari, Ko uchi gari, etc.

The Judo Deashi Harai may fit the definition of "foot sweep" better.

http://cdn2.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/deashibarai.htm

What will you call this kind of "foot sweep" in Judo?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6xNxo0yljQ&feature=youtu.be

[GeneChing]

By 'best' do you mean 'what do we think is best' or 'what we've gotten to work the best'? I've gotten the front snap kick to the gonads to work the best, but I'm not sure I'd advocate that as the 'best kick'.

[YouKnowWho]

If it works so good, why don't you see it being used in UFC .?, Only leg kicks .?

I thought you are the "internal guy". When did you turn into a "MMA guy"? The day when our MMA friend starts to mention "internal", the day that we can all believe our "internal guy" and "MMA guy" are truly the same person.

[Kellen Bassette]

I thought you are the "internal guy". When did you turn into a "MMA guy"?

He and La Roux are slowly becoming the same person. It's very weird and unsettling. Dark things are happening on the WC forum....:eek:

[Kellen Bassette]

Ya, they are doing a lot of push hands on the ground now, they are getting better all the time.

Lol..I'll give you that...

[Drake]

The best technique is to beat someone using their own teacher as a human club.

The psychological impact is remarkable.

[GoldenBrain]

Can you explain this technique?

We call it a dragon kick in our style. It's basically a front thrust kick with the toes pointed outward to roughly 2 o'clock. You can skip in and stomp or just throw it out there in a stomping motion aiming for the hip, upper thigh area or the knee.

I found a short video clip from the show Human Weapon describing the Savate front kick or Chasse Bas but it's basically the same thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqlRmlTEsO4


Describing it as "front jamming kicks using the instep" was really confusing and completely my fault because I was hurrying though my post so I just edited that part out and changed it to a more appropriately described front thrust kick. Sorry for any confusion.

[EarthDragon]

Punch is: uppercut if you have a good one they can rarely be seen and very succcessful.

Kick is: front or round house simple quick to the point?

Throw is: ? bung tiao or sobei

Lock is: any lock that involves minimum effort, some locks are hard to pull off in real combat, so I am going with wrist. or elbow

[Kellen Bassette]

Describing it as "front jamming kicks using the instep"

Yeah, the "instep" part threw me off. i couldn't picture how to strike with the instep using a front thrust.

We call that technique a cross kick and I absolutely love it. It was basically non existent in the UFC until Jones started throwing them. Now they're catching on. :rolleyes:

[EarthDragon]

its also comminly called and Axe kick

[iunojupiter]

Fu ren jiao

excellent kick. Used a fair amount in mantis.

[-N-]

Fu ren jiao

excellent kick. Used a fair amount in mantis.

Yep. We have a few variations of that kick. It is the first one that we teach, and the most commonly trained.

It is in every line of our 14 Routes Tan Tui.

We expect a very in depth level of mastery for that kick. There's a lot more to it than might appear at first look. We have a lot of combination attacks incorporating that kick in a lot of ways.

For us, if you have only one kick, that would be the one.

I start beginner students sparring after they learn that as their first and only technique.

[GoldenBrain]

We call that technique a cross kick and I absolutely love it. It was basically non existent in the UFC until Jones started throwing them. Now they're catching on. :rolleyes:


I can't even imagine not having this kick in my tool box. I'm sure I've used it a hundred times or more in sparring matches and it almost always gives me an instant advantage since it has the affect of making my opponent look like they stepped into a hole all gimpy like. Of course I'm not trying to crush my sparring partners knee or anything so I use it a bit more gently on the hip and thigh.

[Jimbo]

The cross kick is an excellent kick, and in my observation, is included in almost every CMA system. I had it in Mantis, and we also have it in CLF. It's one of, if not the, best kicks to use simultaneously with the hands. But most people really don't expect it at all; everyone looks for the front/round kicks and knees.

Low side kick is also great. When side kick is mentioned, a lot of people assume it's easy to grab, but that's mostly assuming a mid-level kick. And anyway, that depends greatly on WHO is doing the kick. Everybody's side kicks aren't equal. For one example, in his prime, I doubt many people could have grabbed Joe Lewis' side kick. But back to low side kick, it's very quick, easy to recover from, and can target the shin to avoid harming the knee in practice. The low side kick is not easy to grab or try to grab, especially when that isn't the only thing you're doing.

[Kellen Bassette]

When side kick is mentioned, a lot of people assume it's easy to grab, but that's mostly assuming a mid-level kick. And anyway, that depends greatly on WHO is doing the kick. Everybody's side kicks aren't equal.

A good side kick is very difficult to catch. A slow lazy one is easy. Sanda players are probably some of the best kick catchers out there; and they throw side kicks all the time. If your side kick is getting caught on any kind of regular basis you need to do some serious work with that technique.

[Jimbo]

A good side kick is very difficult to catch. A slow lazy one is easy. Sanda players are probably some of the best kick catchers out there; and they throw side kicks all the time. If your side kick is getting caught on any kind of regular basis you need to do some serious work with that technique.

Yes. The side kick seems to have become almost a lost art nowadays. Now I understand people's love for MT-style kicking, but it seems many people either don't train side kick, or work it half-heartedly and conclude that it doesn't work. And sure, there are some instances where it works better than others, like any other move. ANY technique you use has the potential to fail catastrophically if used in the wrong way or time.

[Kellen Bassette]

I really think the main reason the side kick isn't that popular in competitive fighting, (though it is becoming discovered through Jon Jones and others,) is because most people fight with their hips square, facing their opponent. I feel like there's some misconception that you need to be in a side stance to throw a side kick.

This is of course, not the case. It is very simple to throw the kick from a square fighting stance. It simply requires the pivoting of the supporting foot, as does the MT round kick. I think another problem is some people think the side kick is weak, because they don't understand the difference between the snapping side kick, (with the blade of the foot,) and the thrusting side kick, (with the heel.) I've had people tell me the side kick is too weak and they are afraid they'll just be overrun. Then they proceed to show me a weak snappy side kick, side thrust kick is a whole different animal and a very powerful kick.

[bawang]

Yes. The side kick seems to have become almost a lost art nowadays. Now I understand people's love for MT-style kicking, but it seems many people either don't train side kick, or work it half-heartedly and conclude that it doesn't work. And sure, there are some instances where it works better than others, like any other move. ANY technique you use has the potential to fail catastrophically if used in the wrong way or time.

its hard to hurt somebody with a side kick. it looks cool but its not as useful. side kick was never popular in traditional kung fu. it got popular with bruce lee movies.


I really think the main reason the side kick isn't that popular in competitive fighting

side kick was never popular in traditional chinese kung fu.

[Kellen Bassette]

its hard to hurt somebody with a side kick. it looks cool but its not as useful. side kick was never popular in traditional kung fu. it got popular with bruce lee movies.

Throw side kick to the ribs when your opponent strikes. If your kick don't suck, he will be hurt.

[bawang]

Throw side kick to the ribs when your opponent strikes. If your kick don't suck, he will be hurt.


its much more obvious than the round house, and easily defended.

[-N-]

Yep. We have a few variations of that kick. It is the first one that we teach, and the most commonly trained.

It is in every line of our 14 Routes Tan Tui.

We expect a very in depth level of mastery for that kick. There's a lot more to it than might appear at first look. We have a lot of combination attacks incorporating that kick in a lot of ways.

For us, if you have only one kick, that would be the one.

I start beginner students sparring after they learn that as their first and only technique.


The cross kick is an excellent kick, and in my observation, is included in almost every CMA system.

[...]

Low side kick is also great. When side kick is mentioned, a lot of people assume it's easy to grab, but that's mostly assuming a mid-level kick.

We tend to target the shin with the cross kick. We call it jat tui.

One of our first combination kicks is jat tui with low side kick followup.

We slam and drop down on the low side kick. We don't snap it in that combination.

[SPJ]

most people focus on hand techniques

however, foot or leg methods are also important.

stepping methods

--

my favorite is side stepping or bian bu,

many of my mantis hands methods are started with a side stepping.

:cool:

[Kellen Bassette]

its much more obvious than the round house, and easily defended.

Roundhouse is the most telegraphic of all kicks.

[Lucas]

i think sidekick is to use against someones mid/lower back when they don't know you are there. i mean ya you can use it in a face to face fight, but you get the most effective damage out of that kick if its a suprise from behind.

[YouKnowWho]

When you stand face to face with your opponent, the turn side/hook kick can be a big surprise.

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2049/2706201092556new.gif

[Lucas]

When you stand face to face with your opponent, the turn side/hook kick can be a big surprise.

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2049/2706201092556new.gif

thats true, plus its easier to mask than a standard side kick and could easily be a turn back kick instead.

[-N-]

Why all the side kicks and spin side kicks to chest, back, ribs, head?

Jab to head, jat tui(cross kick to shin), immediately turning into stomp side kick with the same leg to side of knee, and you done.

[Lucas]

I personally like the turn back kick and jumping turn back kick. ever since i watched that show that shows the mechanics and power behind martial arts moves and it showed how the turn back kick is the most devistating kick power wise, ive always liked it a lot. is it the best? i dont think that question can be answered, because the best is case by case and situational. what ever you are best with is your best, but may not be mine. time and effort will determine what your best is of anything.

[YouKnowWho]

The best skill is the skill that you can still use it to take care young challengers when you are 80 years old. Anything with "jump" will be hard to do in old age.

[Lucas]

quick draw from shoulder holster. deceit and treachery are the strengths of the elderly, pretend old and scared then shoot them in the legs.

[-N-]

The best punch.

Study this well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mMDMKtr5Ws

[Kellen Bassette]

I personally like the turn back kick and jumping turn back kick. ever since i watched that show that shows the mechanics and power behind martial arts moves and it showed how the turn back kick is the most devistating kick power wise, ive always liked it a lot.

Got to agree, spinning back is the most powerful of the "practical" kicks. Followed by side thrust kick. Assuming you've put in the time to develop them. Front kick and round kick come more naturally so these are the ones people like to work on.

The difference is, side kick is simple to land, spinning back is difficult.

[PalmStriker]

:) It is best to just be invincible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE7XpqeOnK4&feature=endscreen&NR=1