Drills That Represent Your Style

[YouKnowWho]

If you want just come up 4 drills to represent your style, what will those 4 drills be? Of course we can change the number from 4 to 6, 8, 10, ... but let's just start from 4 at this moment.

Let me try the longfist system first:

- Wrist lock, back hand horizontal punch (cross), leading hand vertical punch (jab).
- Hook punch, back fist, uppercut, hammer fist, vertical punch (jab).
- Hammer fist, groin kick, face punch (jab).
- Grab and cross punch, toe kick and cross punch at the same time, leading hand vertical punch (jab).

What will you pick your basic 4 combos if you are WC guy, Taiji guy, Baji guy, Bagua guy, ...?

[David Jamieson]

According to some folks around here it's may pole dancing followed by mutual hand jobs, but that is their loss.

punches and strikes: jab/cross/hook/ tiger claw

combo enter:
left jab/ left jab/ right cross/ guard with right tiger claw-cradle blow with left tiger claw

combo defend:
diagonal step outside(stay tight) / pat(pak sao or tan sao)/ shovel kick toes outward, straight kick to the shin just below the knee), follow with elbow.

There's tons more, really basic drills that can be dragged into sparring easily and used on heavy bag as well.

[Syn7]

What's wrong with hand jobs??? It can be great Kung Fu!

[Syn7]

I like stepping/sliding/stomping drills. All day!!!

[SPJ]

What will you pick your basic 4 combos if you are WC guy, Taiji guy, Baji guy, Bagua guy, ...?

For Tong bei

1. shuang shou or small circling hand

2. Tang zhang testing hand or tapping hand.

3. pi zhang axe hand

4. Shuai zhang or back hand palm

We start with circling hand big or small circle

then add 2,3 or 4.

in any combination.

we start with fixed steps

then walking a straight line, figure 8, s curve etc etc

We may also start with pi (3) and follow with more pi or other hand methods.

fun, fun and fun.

:)

[Minghequan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qPyhGcB_yQ



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G49khPIS__Q



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr8D45pzmiQ



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7TWcjlyEUs



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS8wSDrjr2k



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6lmhAM5up4



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNzQd2q_P5M



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV5kBqYRXEg

[No_Know]

Pa Kua person...

One technique only as basic--Single palm change. Vary. All else from the one...or some such perhaps.

No_Know

Taijiquan--Up-down, Roll-back,deflect/cover and punch,White Crane Spreads it's Wings.

No_Know

[YouKnowWho]

Why do you choose those moves to represent your style? If you want to teach someone just those 4 drills and then send him into a fight, are those moves the most combat effective in your opinion?

[GoldenBrain]

There are so many but here are five of the basic drills.

5 Animal Sil-Lum:

Punching - jab, cross, hook, uppercut, overhand right.

Plum Blossom A - pounding wave (back fist), hammer fist (bottom fist), meteor fist (top fist), scorpion fist (inverted knuckles), rams head (front fist).

Plum Blossom B - knife hand (bottom edge), ridge hand (top edge), flying feathers (finger tips), rock smash (palm heal), dragons claw (palm).

Deflections - bear slap (open palm deflection from left to right, right to left), willow tree (middle deflection like carrying a tray), whipping branch (down block/deflection), robins wing (upper 45 degree deflection), leaping deer (overhead deflection), eagle wing to eagle claw (willow tree deflection with eagle claw grabbing the wrist).

Kicks - front, side, roundhouse, dragon (cross kick), inside crescent, outside crescent.

[Gru Bianca]

What's wrong with hand jobs??? It can be great Kung Fu!

Wise man, however let us be more specific:
- receiving party and not giving party
-female "athlete" kungfu STRICTLY
:D

[Gru Bianca]

On a serious note:

Pek, pek, chao, pao, pao.
As other have said many on the list to choose from (I personally like tiger claw a lot)

[EarthDragon]

Side block, mantis, back fist, turn down hammer fist.... the quickest counter I have even seen. this allows openings in front and side door as well as upper and lower gates.

[lkfmdc]

best drills have context

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtK7HDkZTSY&feature=share&list=UUYveubyzbrQYlFeZFflchRQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IshQJfi3BNM&list=UUYveubyzbrQYlFeZFflchRQ&index=105

[Kellen Bassette]

Nice pad work...

[lkfmdc]

Nice pad work...

Erik is an encyclopedia of information, one of my major inspirations

[sanjuro_ronin]

Erik is an encyclopedia of information, one of my major inspirations

Agreed and then some.
1 seminar with Eric is worth a month with many teachers out there.

[YouKnowWho]

If you extract fighting techniques from forms, make them into both "solo" drills and "partner" drills and just train those drills. No more form training. What will be the future of your style?

Another interest question is, if you have trouble to extract effective combat techniques from the forms of your system, what does that mean?

[sanjuro_ronin]

If you extract fighting techniques from forms, make them into both "solo" drills and "partner" drills and just train those drills. No more form training. What will be the future of your style?

Another interest question is, if you have trouble to extract effective combat techniques from the forms of your system, what does that mean?

Many systems of combat do NOT use pre-arranged forms at all and they survive quite well of course.

[YouKnowWho]

Many systems of combat do NOT use pre-arranged forms at all and they survive quite well of course.

Some pre-arranged forms are bad such as:

- a punch to the east followed by a punch to the west.

Some pre-arranged forms are good such as:

- groin kick, face punch.
- elbow lock, shoulder lock.
- hip throw, single leg.
- ...

If you use a technique as your finish move, you attack both of your opponent's legs. If you use your technique to set up, you attack one of your opponent's leg. This way your give your opponent a chance to get away and fall into your trap. If you start from no form, you may figure this out soon or later. If you start from form, you may pick up this concept right away. It can save you some valuable time in most cases. It's always better to learn from books before you start to write your own books.

[lkfmdc]

If you extract fighting techniques from forms, make them into both "solo" drills and "partner" drills and just train those drills. No more form training. What will be the future of your style?



CRAZY TALK!

No more of this madness :p

I could NEVER see myself doing something like that ;)

[David Jamieson]

If you extract fighting techniques from forms, make them into both "solo" drills and "partner" drills and just train those drills. No more form training. What will be the future of your style?

Another interest question is, if you have trouble to extract effective combat techniques from the forms of your system, what does that mean?

regarding 1. success!

regarding 2. you don't know how to fight!

[YouKnowWho]

CRAZY TALK!

No more of this madness :p

I could NEVER see myself doing something like that ;)
I did extract a "superman punch" from Kung Li Chuan and used it in a challenge fight.

So you see there is no value that can be extracted from the TCMA forms. So far I haven't been able to extract too much valuable combat information out of the TCMA forms yet. But I don't want to give up. I'm still trying.

I still believe we can condense a system into a set of training drills. Not only one can learn from this set of drills to understand the whole system. he can also become a good fighter too.

[lkfmdc]

John

When I use things like :p and ;) I am being SARCASTIC.....

I don't do lama forms anymore

but I do plenty of lama technique

[YouKnowWho]

I don't do lama forms anymore

but I do plenty of lama technique

That's my approach too. Someone mentioned the "5 Yangs fists" group in Beijing is also using this approach.

[SPJ]

Some pre-arranged forms are bad such as:

- a punch to the east followed by a punch to the west.

Some pre-arranged forms are good such as:

- groin kick, face punch.
- elbow lock, shoulder lock.
- hip throw, single leg.
- ...



In all mantis forms,

there are combo in 4 to 6 techniques/move strung together.

which means it is not important which comes first or next.

we may practice each combo by them self.

--

:)

[lkfmdc]

I have things from Lama Pai, from Choy Lay Fut, from Hung Kuen, from Shuai Jiao

I also have things from Muay Thai, from Western Wrestling, from Judo, from Boxing, from other arts

People scream about this, but really

Hung Hei Gun combined tiger and crane techniques (so they say)

Wang Lang of praying mantis was even worse, he "absorbed and equalized all previous techniques" learned from 17 other masters.

[Kellen Bassette]

I still believe we can condense a system into a set of training drills. Not only one can learn from this set of drills to understand the whole system. he can also become a good fighter too.

Yes I agree with this. I think many people wouldn't like it, however, because than people would realize it doesn't take decades to learn a system. It takes a relatively short time to learn fundamental skills. You can get good fairly quickly, (assuming your in decent shape and reasonably coordinated,) then spend a lifetime mastering those skills.

I still think forms have value, but 100 forms is not more valuable than 4. Training forms for less than 10% of your training time is much more beneficial than training forms for more than 90%.

I didn't want to become a cynic on this, but I'm starting to believe a big reason there is so much focus on forms in TMA is because it's very easy to have a whole class work forms for an hour. You only hold pads for one person at a time, (efficiently,) and it's hard to oversee 10 sparring matches at once. It's real easy to watch a group do the same movement in unison to your cadence.

[GoldenBrain]

I guess not all forms are created equal. I love the forms I practice. They don't have any wasted movement or techniques. They teach blocking, deflections, punching, kicking, bridging, stepping, locks...etc. There are even hidden techniques you can add to various places within the form to create variety and expand the workout. I'm thankful I had a sifu that was able and willing to explain the applications because from what I read on these forums there are a great many students who seem to have no grasp of what the forms they practice are all about.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with pad work (great clips by the way lkfmdc) or partner drills or cross training or any of that. In fact, I'd seriously recommend adding those and more to the workout. I'd just like to point out that forms enable a student to practice the applications by themselves and develop the necessary muscle memory needed to perform the applications. Of course it's all a waste if the student doesn't understand the applications.

[YouKnowWho]

What will those 4 drills that can represent the WC and Taiji system? Anybody want to give a try?

[Kellen Bassette]

I'll give it a shot...for WC, Chi Sao, Siu Nim Tau, Chum Kiu and Biu Tze. Of course only your lineage does it right. :p

[SPJ]

What will those 4 drills that can represent the WC and Taiji system? Anybody want to give a try?

for tai ji

1 grasping the sparrow's tail

2 cloud hand

3 covering body fist or bie shen chui

4 kao, most of the moves/postures may contain or end with kao

bie shen shui can be bie shen kao etc

--

I pick them because

1. restraining arm, wrist and elbow

2. deflecting to the side (peng la and lu) to defend against arm and elbow

3 covering our front and then introducing fist, wrist, elbow or shoulder

4 kao is a big thing in Tai ji, lots of people ignore this, ouch

--

:)

[-N-]

If you extract fighting techniques from forms, make them into both "solo" drills and "partner" drills and just train those drills. No more form training. What will be the future of your style?

Extract into drills to train, and use in sparring. That's exactly what my teacher told us to do.

He said knowing forms was useless unless you did this with the techniques and trained them to death.

That is how to continue the system.


Another interest question is, if you have trouble to extract effective combat techniques from the forms of your system, what does that mean?

If you are from a legit system, then it means you are a bad student.