Bridges

[sehing2]

Since there are a number of lineages represented here, do any recognize different bridge lengths. Long bridge, short bridge, etc.? And if so are there unique qualities, strategies, training methods for each? Thanks in advance.

[poulperadieux]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoPHWKV5O_s

The rest is in his book

[Grumblegeezer]

After viewing that Godwin video posted by "Doc Oct" (check out the Doctor Octopus image below)...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/71975/2057091-doc_ock2.jpg

...My reaction was that people certainly seem to over-complicate things. To my way of thinking, you should be comfortable at both short and long ranges. Personally, I used to overly favor shorter bridges in chi-sau. One of my seniors suggested that I deliberately work the opposite for a while. I found that difficult, and ultimately quite helpful.

[poulperadieux]

After viewing that Godwin video posted by "Doc Oct":

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/71975/2057091-doc_ock2.jpg

...My reaction was that people certainly seem to over-complicate things. To my way of thinking, you should be comfortable at both short and long ranges. Personally, I used to overly favor shorter bridges in chi-sau. One of my seniors suggested that I deliberately work the opposite for a while. I found that difficult, and ultimately quite helpful.


Doc Oct ! Kinda like that!

For Godwin, you SHOULD be unconfortable, so you train muscles, tendons, joints.
He's got a lot of variations of training the mook jong to cultivate some abilities so you are confortable in a fight, like in a chair.



NB :

Poulpe Radieux means : Radiant Octopus in English.

[sehing2]

After viewing that Godwin video posted by "Doc Oct" (check out the Doctor Octopus image below)...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/71975/2057091-doc_ock2.jpg

...My reaction was that people certainly seem to over-complicate things. To my way of thinking, you should be comfortable at both short and long ranges. Personally, I used to overly favor shorter bridges in chi-sau. One of my seniors suggested that I deliberately work the opposite for a while. I found that difficult, and ultimately quite helpful.

OK. So your lineage does recognize different bridges. In that case then, the video posted simply does what you suggested that you did in chi sao. May I ask your lineage? Thanks.

[Grumblegeezer]

OK. So your lineage does recognize different bridges. In that case then, the video posted simply does what you suggested that you did in chi sao. May I ask your lineage? Thanks.

Lineage? Sure. I've trained with a couple of groups, but primarily "WT". My Sifu from 1980 to about 1992 was Leung Ting. And just to be clear, I was never taught separate drills, or to change the dummy height, etc. for each bridge length. We just varied our training to develop different attributes.

...For example, I found that too much short-bridge work in chi-sau fed into my natural tendency to be a bit heavy and forceful in my movements. Long bridge chi-sau forced my to relax my shoulders more (or else get exhausted) and helped me extend my force forward, improving my arm flexibility and what, in the WT branch, we called "springy-energy".

[sehing2]

OK.....Thanks

[poulperadieux]

OK. So your lineage does recognize different bridges. In that case then, the video posted simply does what you suggested that you did in chi sao. May I ask your lineage? Thanks.

Depends what I work in chi sao, bridge structure or something else.

I've got no lineage, I'm a Vagabond, I wander from places to places.
Find Godwin work intersting through.


I ocasionnaly refer to the Chthulhu cult.

[k gledhill]

One idea runs continuously throughout the system, low centerlined elbows. If the elbow has to repeatedly lift up and down to a dummy arm set too high it can ruin the idea of SLT. A predominant factor in drills and dummy is to work with low elbows on the transverse plane. A raised elbow or " long bridge " aka a long lever is easier to displace using simultaneous striking/deflecting actions.. Tan/jum elbow is a very strong angle when used so the elbow maintains a connection to the body.... Low.
Deliberately placing a dummy so the upper arms are higher than upperchest sternum will create lifting elbows and long levers as a bad habit.
Godwins dummy is awful. Leaning vertical power line , no body momentum, no hip elbow unity, no shock force. He may talk the talk but he is not walking it .

[poulperadieux]

Godwins dummy is awful. Leaning vertical power line , no body momentum, no hip elbow unity, no shock force. He may talk the talk but he is not walking it .

Should meet someone from leung sheun lineage if you want to understand what they do.

I thought the same thing as you so I understand your point.

[sehing2]

Deliberately placing a dummy so the upper arms are higher than upperchest sternum will create lifting elbows and long levers as a bad habit.


Thanks. While I certainly agree with the idea of low elbows and connection, the video below of WSL creates a " problem" with the dummy being set too high when it is" higher than upper chest" level. I do agree however that most videos on youtube have the dummy set too high. Just not in these two cases (Godwin and WSL).

So to be clear, you do not recognize different bridges? Thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wPdl-mGKL-Y

[k gledhill]

Deliberately placing a dummy so the upper arms are higher than upperchest sternum will create lifting elbows and long levers as a bad habit.


Thanks. While I certainly agree with the idea of low elbows and connection, the video below of WSL creates a " problem" with the dummy being set too high when it is" higher than upper chest" level. I do agree however that most videos on youtube have the dummy set too high. Just not in these two cases (Godwin and WSL).

So to be clear, you do not recognize different bridges? Thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wPdl-mGKL-Y

Godwin isn't worth remarking on , crap.

[poulperadieux]

Deliberately placing a dummy so the upper arms are higher than upperchest sternum will create lifting elbows and long levers as a bad habit.



When he started thai boxing, his teacher introduced him to the shoulder guard, so the wing chun geek guy said :"but it's bad for the connexion".

He answered : "Et ta connerie, elle est aussi connectée?"

[poulperadieux]

Godwin isn't worth remarking on , crap.

"Philipp Bayer's skills and clear unambiguous execution of VT fighting illuminated the path that he needed to take in order to further develop himself and guide his student's development. K Gledhill has subscribed to his mentorship ever since."

I wasn't sure about the goat blood remarks, now it seems quite plausible...


These PB students, so luminous they are, on their paths !
Powerful mentors they have.

[Lee Chiang Po]

I was taught that chi sao was only a training drill and not some sort of playful competition. I was advised to use it as a simple drill and not to get involved in the game because it would create serious boundries for me. So I never got into playing chi sao. I am glad too because I have never met anyone trained that way. So then a bridge is a bridge. The most important thing is to be able to take advantage of that bridge as it is not something that lasts more than a few seconds at best.
When the average Joe fights, it is like dancing. He has a little circle around him that is determined as his personal space. He does his best fighting when his target is just at the outer edge of his personal space. When you are able to make that bridge you get inside his personal space which smothers his ability to perform efficiently. If you can take away his balance, you take away his fight. That is difficult at best when you are outside his circle of personal space.

[YouKnowWho]

Since we are discussing "bridges", I would like to ask a related question here. Someone told me that if I punch with my

- "right" fist, my opponent should use his "left" Bong Shou to block.
- "left" fist, my opponent should use his "right" Bong Shou to block.

When I learned WC, I didn't learn this guideline but it makes sense to me. Today I met a WC teacher. He asked me to punch him, I punched my "right" fist. He used his "right" Bong Shou to block it.

Is that correct in your opinion?

[poulperadieux]

Since we are discussing "bridges", I would like to ask a related question here. Someone told me that if I punch with my

- "right" fist, my opponent should use his "left" Bong Shou to block.
- "left" fist, my opponent should use his "right" Bong Shou to block.

When I learned WC, I didn't learn this guideline but it makes sense to me. Today I met a WC teacher. He asked me to punch him, I punched my "right" fist. He used his "right" Bong Shou to block it.

Is that correct in your opinion?

Bong sao happen than disappears, it's not a block you should think about... It's not a block anyway.

Never throw a bong sao against a fist, it's not it's use.

[sehing2]

Thanks Jackie,
And thanks Kevin for the well thought out response. I was expecting
a comment on the WSL video that had a "high" in your estimation setting, and all you could come up with was a slam on Godwin? It appears insults are the only refuge for those without an answer. I will restate. If Godwin's jong is set too high then is not WSL's in his video? It is a simple question. I am looking for an honest answer. I have the utmost respect for WSL and am not interested in trading insults.

[k gledhill]

Thanks Jackie,
And thanks Kevin for the well thought out response. I was expecting
a comment on the WSL video that had a "high" in your estimation setting, and all you could come up with was a slam on Godwin? It appears insults are the only refuge for those without an answer. I will restate. If Godwin's jong is set too high then is not WSL's in his video? It is a simple question. I am looking for an honest answer. I have the utmost respect for WSL and am not interested in trading insults.

Yeah Godwin , really dude ? Awful.

[Vajramusti]

Since there are a number of lineages represented here, do any recognize different bridge lengths. Long bridge, short bridge, etc.? And if so are there unique qualities, strategies, training methods for each? Thanks in advance.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a bridge and bridging can be two different things. In the skeletal structure a bridge can be "kiU"
the part of the forearm after the knob just past the wrist to the beginning of main forearm muscles
Kiu/bridge is more of a descriptive noun. Bridging is an active verb-lots of motions can be bridges.
Very close quarters punches can involve short power and a short bridge. A third form fak sao can be a long bridge.Variations of short and long bridges are there in a good wing chun arsenal.
How and when you use them depends on distance angle, timing and openings.

[sehing2]

Thanks, Joy.....

[JPinAZ]

In HFY, we have long, medium and short range 'bridging' technologies for engagement. We also have various dummy forms for developing the tools and leverage/facing concepts for each.

[sehing2]

I have read some HFY material. I suspected that would be the case. Thanks

[k gledhill]

Bong sao happen than disappears, it's not a block you should think about... It's not a block anyway.

Never throw a bong sao against a fist, it's not it's use.

Bong not for a fist ?! Lmfao.

[k gledhill]

Last time I looked my arm was still the same length using fac, bong, jum, tan , I know the master of almightybollox can stretch his bridge , but that is LT bs.
All arm actions are the same intercepting angles if you understand the elbow concept, even fac, fac just leads off body but the elbow is tucked in for the same reasons as all the rest, INTERCEPTION.
To even imply that one can think fast enough to change bridge lengths while fighting is nerdy.
At fighting speeds we try to not think about variations so we can attack without thinking. The centered elbow concept addresses this. Lin sil di da.

[poulperadieux]

Last time I looked my arm was still the same length using fac, bong, jum, tan , I know the master of almightybollox can stretch his bridge , but that is LT bs.
All arm actions are the same intercepting angles if you understand the elbow concept, even fac, fac just leads off body but the elbow is tucked in for the same reasons as all the rest, INTERCEPTION.
To even imply that one can think fast enough to change bridge lengths while fighting is nerdy.
At fighting speeds we try to not think about variations so we can attack without thinking. The centered elbow concept addresses this. Lin sil di da.


You can't stretch your arm? really? Nobody taught you? It's the basic of basics in biu jee though, in the second move.


Yeah Fighting fighting fighting...

Aren't you tired of fighting during training, and aim for actual fights outisde your kwoon?

There's no fighting videos on your website, go see this website :

http://www.ecolebase.com/

A french WSL inspired School, with titles, medals.

And guess what, they are cool, friendly, open. the best place I visited in Paris, they barely asked who I was, and after a few minutes, they gave me the best students to train with.

These guys are great, maybe because they do sports also, martial arts turns minds upside down, ang give rabbit legs.

[BPWT]

All arm actions are the same intercepting angles if you understand the elbow concept, even fac, fac just leads off body but the elbow is tucked in for the same reasons as all the rest, INTERCEPTION. To even imply that one can think fast enough to change bridge lengths while fighting is nerdy.At fighting speeds we try to not think about variations so we can attack without thinking. The centered elbow concept addresses this. Lin sil di da.

You don't 'think about variations', the bridging is dependent on how you and your oppoent engage. It just happens.

Does this mean you don't have long and short bridge work in PB's interpretation of WSL's VT?

Long and short bridges use slightly different mechanics to generate power. Long bridge tends to utilize more the movement of the shoulder... while short bridge utilizes more the elbow. All the forms contain long and short bridge techniques, but the Biu Tse form we were chatting about in another tread has more of a focus on long bridge work.

The wiggling fingers/hand we were discussing earlier (Saam You Sau) is connected to this long bridge work, as it helps with this type of bridge force (Cheung Kiu Faat).
Different lineage place an emphasis on different things, for sure. For example, Duncan Leung's group have a much heavier focus on long bridge work. I don't think that is because Yip Man told him to put more emphasis there, but more that long bridge work was what he preferred (over a focus on short bridge).


Last time I looked my arm was still the same length using fac, bong, jum, tan , I know the master of almightybollox can stretch his bridge , but that is LT bs.

As said before, just because it seems you don't have something from PB's system, it hardly means that if someone else has something then what they have is BS. :rolleyes: What PB teaches looks really good, but it also sounds like it is itself a stripped down version of WSL's system.

You already pretty much admitted that you don't have any work that is about the tendons and ligaments, and also that your BT form doesn't have different power generation methods than your CK form.

I'm not critiquing you for this - just saying you should be a little more open-minded about WT/WC/VT, etc.

Just take a look at outside of the YM line. What do they have and why?

Think about who YM trained with - and what it may very well have led to. What did those guys have, and why?

Think about why YM taught in HK - and why as a result he might not have just given out everything to every body who walked through the door.

Think about how it seems he often gave students what he thought they wanted.

Heck, think about other southern systems - they often share similar characteristics to Wing Chun... what do they have and why.

Again - Yip Man didn't learn in a vacuum. You don't have to either, Kevin. :rolleyes:

[k gledhill]

Okay I shall start extending my arm and wiggling my fingers so the tendons and ligaments get a workout ; ). April fool !!! Gotcha.

[BPWT]

Okay I shall start extending my arm and wiggling my fingers so the tendons and ligaments get a workout ; ). April fool !!! Gotcha.

Well, that would be the very start of things... but you have to start somewhere, Kevin. :)

Of course, you could also just sit back and have a think about what some are saying... :rolleyes:

I wonder if YM was in Dai Duk Lan and said to the others, "I never learned any of this, so what you are doing is BS."

:rolleyes:

[k gledhill]

Well, that would be the very start of things... but you have to start somewhere, Kevin. :)

Of course, you could also just sit back and have a think about what some are saying... :rolleyes:

I wonder if YM was in Dai Duk Lan and said to the others, "I never learned any of this, so what you are doing is BS."

:rolleyes:

I shall henceforth treat bil gee as a whirlpool of magical energy and my special place like you ; ) April fools again !! Is that allowed ; )

[BPWT]

I shall henceforth treat bil gee as a whirlpool of magical energy and my special place like you ; ) April fools again !! Is that allowed ; )

An April Fool is always allowed. :p If the name fits, Kevin... :)

But no magical energy! Just good body mechanics!!

[k gledhill]

An April Fool is always allowed. :p If the name fits, Kevin... :)

But no magical energy! Just good body mechanics!!

What ! No magical mystical stuff ? Just extending arms and finger wiggling ? :D

[BPWT]

I am wiggling a finger at you, right now! :D

[k gledhill]

I am wiggling a finger at you, right now! :D

I am being like a mirror, advice from an old sifu of mine. ; )

[Happy Tiger]

:)
I am being like a mirror, advice from an old sifu of mine. ; )It is like a finger wiggling it's way to the moon.

[poulperadieux]

When the Wise man points the moon, the idiot keep his hand on his wallet, better safe than sorry.

[poulperadieux]

Okay I shall start extending my arm and wiggling my fingers so the tendons and ligaments get a workout ; ). April fool !!! Gotcha.

Ligaments and tendons, difficult... Tiny space under the lens if you watch.

But muscles and articulations, you can do, pretty easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrAX8dEZWJY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JU7rYLMaxQ

[Graham H]

Ligaments and tendons, difficult... Tiny space under the lens if you watch.

But muscles and articulations, you can do, pretty easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrAX8dEZWJY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JU7rYLMaxQ

The best thing about that video is your flip flops. The rest is just a flop :D

[poulperadieux]

The best thing about that video is your flip flops. The rest is just a flop :D


Broke them just after the video, like training whith these, helps you train the way I learned in Vinh Xuan.

I was very sad, you right, they were cool.

[Graham H]

Broke them just after the video, like training whith these, helps you train the way I learned in Vinh Xuan.

I was very sad, you right, they were cool.

See look? You can do it. You actually are ok when your not belittling anybody.

[poulperadieux]

See look? You can do it. You actually are ok when your not belittling anybody.

Look who is talkin', the King Rabbit himself !

[Graham H]

Look who is talkin', the King Rabbit himself !

Oh dear. i spoke too soon

[poulperadieux]

Oh dear. i spoke too soon

So Graham, figured out what the 1st principle in fencing is?

I'm Sure Glenn will find out first !

[Graham H]

So Graham, figured out what the 1st principle in fencing is?

I'm Sure Glenn will find out first !

I'm not interested in the first principle of fencing poul :confused:

[Shads]

So Graham, figured out what the 1st principle in fencing is?

I'm Sure Glenn will find out first !

always thought the first principle of fencing is wear the most gay tight white trousers you can find, then adopt the I'm a little teapot pose:p

[poulperadieux]

always thought the first principle of fencing is wear the most gay tight white trousers you can find, then adopt the I'm a little teapot pose:p
:D:D:D:D

C pas faux !