What will you do?

[YouKnowWho]

You just meet some TCMA teacher the 1st time. He also has his students with him. He says, "Punch me". What will you do?

[David Jamieson]

You just meet some TCMA teacher the 1st time. He also has his students with him. He says, "Punch me". What will you do?

Politely decline and perhaps suggest whatever he wants to show me I would see better if he demonstrated with his student.

[Bernard]

If I sense this guy is being a kung fu BS jerk then I'll give him a hard time.

[Lucas]

I would either ask him why, or simply punch him and try to hit him. Since I just met him for the first time, and he is not my friend nor holds any association with me, I would try and connect with a punch since he is obviously trying to bait you into losing face in front of his students, and trying to show his superiority over you.

If he can be civil and kindly discuss what he is trying to demonstrate, I could work with him, but if he wants to be all sneaky, I will reply in kind and try to connect with a punch.

After all, he did ask for it.

[GeneChing]

My reaction depends on who it is that is asking. Often I'll just leave my fist out and see what they'll do with it - protecting myself as best as I can, of course. That's probably not the wisest method, but most masters/practitioners know that if they blacken my eye, they'll never get published in any of our publications. :p

[MasterKiller]

Man, I thought this was going to be a Hulkamaniac thread.

http://i.qkme.me/3qmyg7.jpg

[YouKnowWho]

I would either ask him why,

Just the last Sunday (3 days ago), the initial discussion was about WC Bong Shou. I mentioned my concern about the raising elbow. My opponent disagreed and said, "Punch me".

I did admire his willing to prove by his action instead of his words. The problem is he also forced me to prove with my action too. Since we both came from the same generation, he should understand the situation.

We could just exchanged opinions by "words". I will never ask anybody to punch me. I always like to punch first. :D

[Lucas]

http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Hogan.jpg

[SimonM]

You just meet some TCMA teacher the 1st time. He also has his students with him. He says, "Punch me". What will you do?

Punch him...
But politely. :D

[Lucas]

Just the last Sunday (3 days ago), the initial discussion was about WC Bong Shou. I mentioned my concern about the raising elbow. My opponent disagreed and said, "Punch me".

I did admire his willing to prove by his action instead of his words. The problem is he also forced me to prove with my action too. Since we both came from the same generation, he should understand the situation.

We could just exchanged opinions by "words". I will never ask anybody to punch me. I always like to punch first. :D

Ahh I see. Did you end up punching him?

[Punch.HeadButt]

Throw a hook. :D

[Lucas]

Throw a hook. :D

/win
567890

[SPJ]

You just meet some TCMA teacher the 1st time. He also has his students with him. He says, "Punch me". What will you do?

yes.

I would do the punch and slowly.

---

:)

[YouKnowWho]

Ahh I see. Did you end up punching him?

This was exactly happened:

- I used right punch at his face.
- He blocked it with his right Bon Shou.
- My left hand pushed his right elbow up, and my right hand pressed his right wrist down.
- He "tried" to drop his right elbow down into a Tan Shou, and punch me with his left hand at the same time.
- I ...

[Lucas]

you threw a hook punch? :D

[Orion Paximus]

Do as he asks and hope he shows me something new in the process.

[GoldenBrain]

I'd fake a punch and kick him in his nards! He'd probably collapse under the weight of his swelling testicles but I'm sure he would thank me later for the lesson.:D

[YouKnowWho]

you threw a hook punch? :D

This was exactly happened (since my memory is still fresh):

- I used right punch at his face.
- He blocked it with his right Bon Shou.
- My left hand pushed his right elbow up, and my right hand pressed his right wrist down.
- He "tried" to drop his right elbow down into Tan Shou (but he couldn't because my left hand was on his elbow joint), and punch me with his left hand at the same time.
- I pulled his right arm across his body, and use it to jam his own left punch. At the same time,
- I slided my left hand along his right arm to take over my right grip on his right wrist.
- I then used my free right hand to garb his left arm (jammed by his own right arm) at the wrist.
- Now I have grabbed both of his arms at the wrist position.
- He tried to break my grips but failed.
- I let him tried about 3 times. I then let go both of my grips and everything just stopped right there.

Later on he did comment that I have strong grip. He also commented that I should keep my arms loose, and not grab his arms so hard. I didn't argue with him. In my mind, "There is no way that I will let go your arms so you can punch me again".

There were no punches landed on anybody. It was a peaceful ending. This the beautiful of the grappling art IMO.

[bawang]

Throw a hook. :D

they can never defend the deadly hook

[SPJ]

- Now I have grabbed both of his arms at the wrist position.

There were no punches landed on anybody. It was a peaceful ending. This the beautiful of the grappling art IMO.

He can also do a headbutt to your nose with hands being grabbed.

:D

[Lucas]

This was exactly happened (since my memory is still fresh):

- I used right punch at his face.
- He blocked it with his right Bon Shou.
- My left hand pushed his right elbow up, and my right hand pressed his right wrist down.
- He "tried" to drop his right elbow down into Tan Shou (but he couldn't because my left hand was on his elbow joint), and punch me with his left hand at the same time.
- I pulled his right arm across his body, and use it to jam his own left punch. At the same time,
- I slided my left hand along his right arm to take over my right grip on his right wrist.
- I then used my free right hand to garb his left arm (jammed by his own right arm) at the wrist.
- Now I have grabbed both of his arms at the wrist position.
- He tried to break my grips but failed.
- I let him tried about 3 times. I then let go both of my grips and everything just stopped right there.

Later on he did comment that I have strong grip. He also commented that I should keep my arms loose, and not grab his arms so hard. I didn't argue with him. In my mind, "There is no way that I will let go your arms so you can punch me again".

There were no punches landed on anybody. It was a peaceful ending. This the beautiful of the grappling art IMO.

non grappler is always impressed by grappler grip strength. the way i see it you gained more face because not only were you right in your thoughts but also that you tied him up and in that position as a grappler, and he a striker, you had more opportunity to follow and finish.

[Syn7]

Depends whos asking. Diff answer for diff types of people and diff situations.

I would either politely decline and walk away and never come back, politely decline and stick around, throw an easy straight punch in a bow stance or waste no time and give him a taste of the nasty.

[Syn7]

non grappler is always impressed by grappler grip strength.

Non striker (who isn't used to getting hit) will always be impressed with a good strikers speed/power.


You gotta love those grapplers that refuse to learn to strike and have a rock for a head. So funny to watch. It's looks a lot like a sexual assault. :p

[YouKnowWho]

He can also do a headbutt to your nose with hands being grabbed.

:D
True but since I can do the same, I'll call that 50-50 situation.

[Syn7]

True but since I can do the same, I'll call that 50-50 situation.

Mark Coleman used the headbutt while in someones guard to great effect. When they changed the rules, he lost a great advantage. That stuff works. And when you are on your back, your headbutts are like love taps. When you are in someones guard and you drop into it the way you would any other power strike, man that **** hurts!

[YouKnowWho]

Non striker (who isn't used to getting hit) will always be impressed with a good strikers speed/power.

If we can prove that a striker can always beat a grappler (or the other way around), we won't need "cross training".

This is why it's always better to look at every situation from both sides point of views. Some Judo guys like to stay in Judo forum and talk about Judo only. To me, it makes no sense at all.

[Lucas]

Non striker (who isn't used to getting hit) will always be impressed with a good strikers speed/power.


You gotta love those grapplers that refuse to learn to strike and have a rock for a head. So funny to watch. It's looks a lot like a sexual assault. :p

thats true!

[GeneChing]

Since we both came from the same generation, he should understand the situation. This person was in your lineage? If it was an inner-lineage exchange and not some outsider challenge, that changes everything. We're always trading techniques and testing amongst people that are within our own generation.

As for head butts, I was taught how to head butt by a fencing teammate who also played rugby. It was pretty effective in fencing (it was illegal too but when applied like it was an accident, who was the wiser? ;)). Of course, in fencing, you have a fencing mask. Mine was solid stainless steel. That made it easier to head butt.

[Kellen Bassette]

Mark Coleman used the headbutt while in someones guard to great effect. When they changed the rules, he lost a great advantage. That stuff works. And when you are on your back, your headbutts are like love taps. When you are in someones guard and you drop into it the way you would any other power strike, man that **** hurts!

Headbutt can be game changer, in the guard or clinch. I like to fake it sometimes when rolling just as a reminder it can happen in da streetz.

[Syn7]

Headbutt can be game changer, in the guard or clinch. I like to fake it sometimes when rolling just as a reminder it can happen in da streetz.

Yeah, it always comes to mind when somebody has me wrapped up in guard. But then so do elbows, shoulder strikes and good ol fashioned fist smashing face techniques. Sometimes I had to check myself when I was doing straight up no gi and mma back to back.


When sparring, I like to strike the ribs or chest and remind my opponent that it could have been a stab and not a punch. It's important to keep stuff like that in mind. My old teacher would always say "That works well unless........"

[YouKnowWho]

This person was in your lineage?

We trained in complete different system. When I said "same generation", I mean we have similiar age. We both came from the "old school". When we talked about someone, He would say, "I'll send my students to fight him, I then fight him myself." I love his attitude. People in the modern generation just don't talk like that.

[YouKnowWho]

When sparring, I like to strike the ribs or chest and remind my opponent that it could have been a stab and not a punch.

I don't like to punch at my opponent chest for the following reason.

- My opponent raises his right leading arm and exposes his chest.
- I punch at his chest.
- He dropped his right elbow on top of my arm, and
- poked his right hand fingers at my eyes.

I may be able to dodge his eyes poking, but I may not be able to dodge his groin kick. I like to be "on top and inside". I don't like to put my arm below my opponent's arm (under hook and waist control are exceptions).

[-N-]

This was exactly happened (since my memory is still fresh):

- I used right punch at his face.
- He blocked it with his right Bon Shou.
- My left hand pushed his right elbow up, and my right hand pressed his right wrist down.
- He "tried" to drop his right elbow down into Tan Shou (but he couldn't because my left hand was on his elbow joint), and punch me with his left hand at the same time.
- I pulled his right arm across his body, and use it to jam his own left punch. At the same time,
- I slided my left hand along his right arm to take over my right grip on his right wrist.
- I then used my free right hand to garb his left arm (jammed by his own right arm) at the wrist.
- Now I have grabbed both of his arms at the wrist position.
- He tried to break my grips but failed.
- I let him tried about 3 times. I then let go both of my grips and everything just stopped right there.

This is why you started the other discussion about chasing hands?

In this situation it was convenient for you to exchange your right wrist control for left wrist control, then go after his left wrist with your right hand?

I would tend to keep the right wrist control, go in while exchanging the left hand elbow control for chest to elbow control, then advance the left hand to the left side of his head for hit/control/wrap, and use left leg trap against his right leg.

[-N-]

This is why you started the other discussion about chasing hands?

In this situation it was convenient for you to exchange your right wrist control for left wrist control, then go after his left wrist with your right hand?

I would tend to keep the right wrist control, go in while exchanging the left hand elbow control for chest to elbow control, then advance the left hand to the left side of his head for hit/control/wrap, and use left leg trap against his right leg.

If you go in and use position to prevent his left punch from hitting you, you get head control and takedown one step sooner, instead of switching hands and chasing his left.

[GeneChing]

When I said "same generation", I mean we have similiar age. We both came from the "old school". When we talked about someone, He would say, "I'll send my students to fight him, I then fight him myself." I love his attitude. People in the modern generation just don't talk like that. I never send my students. I don't have any. If it comes to that, I send my ninjas to stab them in the back.

I guess we aren't the same age then. :p

[YouKnowWho]

This is why you started the other discussion about chasing hands?

In this situation it was convenient for you to exchange your right wrist control for left wrist control, then go after his left wrist with your right hand?

I would tend to keep the right wrist control, go in while exchanging the left hand elbow control for chest to elbow control, then advance the left hand to the left side of his head for hit/control/wrap, and use left leg trap against his right leg.

That's a good entering strategy too. The only concern that I may have is when you move your left hand from his right elbow to the left side of his head, his right elbow is free. He may be able to strike his right elbow at your chest when you move in. Of course if you move in fast enough, you can use your own chest to jam his right elbow. If he can dorp his right elbow and raise it up, you will still have chance to run into his sharp elbow.

When I pull his right arm across his chest to jam his left punch, his resistence will move his right arm toward me. That make my left hand grab much easier.

[Dale Dugas]

Gene will send me in a kilt bearing ginseng single malt.

that alone with the beard of death will be about spontaneous combustion on all who harbor ill will towards Gene and Nacho cheese.

[Syn7]

I don't like to punch at my opponent chest for the following reason.

- My opponent raises his right leading arm and exposes his chest.
- I punch at his chest.
- He dropped his right elbow on top of my arm, and
- poked his right hand fingers at my eyes.

I may be able to dodge his eyes poking, but I may not be able to dodge his groin kick. I like to be "on top and inside". I don't like to put my arm below my opponent's arm (under hook and waist control are exceptions).

Punch chest to simulate stabbing was the point of that. More of a message to cover the line. Too often I find people are easily distracted, myself included.

I like body shots, but I tend to go for the sides. Kidney, liver, floaters. It works pretty well when you're inside. I don't think I have ever even tried to punch somebody in the chest or even the solar plexus in a real fight. Maybe in the stomach, but usually not even that.

[YouKnowWho]

If you go in and use position to prevent his left punch from hitting you, you get head control and takedown one step sooner, instead of switching hands and chasing his left.

Agree!

A right "挂(Gua) - comb the hair" on his left arm, I can move in with a head lock. I realy didn't want to apply "head lock" on him that day. That may be a bit over do IMO. Of course if he is strong and can break my grips, when he tries to do so, I may have to move in with a head lock. So head lock will be my next move in my plan in case I have to continue after that.

The advantage to control both my opponent's arms instead of just control one of his arms, comb the hair, and move in is,

in the

- 1st situation, I can borrow his resistence to pull me into him. My entering will be faster.
- 2nd situation, since his left side body is still free, he may be able to pull back fast enough to make my head lock just lock into the thin air.

[GeneChing]

Gene will send me in a kilt bearing ginseng single malt.

that alone with the beard of death will be about spontaneous combustion on all who harbor ill will towards Gene and Nacho cheese.
Be very afraid.

:eek:

[-N-]

That's a good entering strategy too. The only concern that I may have is when you move your left hand from his right elbow to the left side of his head, his right elbow is free. He may be able to strike his right elbow at your chest when you move in. Of course if you move in fast enough, you can use your own chest to jam his right elbow. If he can dorp his right elbow and raise it up, you will still have chance to run into his sharp elbow.

When I pull his right arm across his chest to jam his left punch, his resistence will move his right arm toward me. That make my left hand grab much easier.

True.

When you have hands at his right wrist and elbow, you can sink and extend the arm so he doesn't have a chance to use his elbow. Yes, jam the chest to pressure his elbow as you close in.

Both Mantis and SC want to close the gap so the other person can't manuever. We're supposed to train to move in fast enough. If he is faster, we didn't train enough.

Ok, if he is strong and pulls back up when you drop and extend his arm, go with his force and bend his elbow and raise his right wrist. Go in with your right leg behind his right. Hit across his face or chest with your right elbow, as you do a figure 4 on his arm and kao for takedown.

[-N-]

Agree!

A right "挂(Gua) - comb the hair" on his left arm, I can move in with a head lock. I realy didn't want to apply "head lock" on him that day. That may be a bit over do IMO.

This sounds like you are both facing kind of square.

You give right punch.

He uses right elbow up to deflect.

You take control of wrist and elbow.

He gives left punch.

You release your right hand to Gua.

Then close for headlock.

---

I was thinking for using position to neutralize the left punch.

When you have wrist and elbow control, you can fully extend him so his left cannot punch you.

Use your body to pressure his elbow as your left shoots forward to wrap into reverse guillotine.

It is the Chin Na idea of all the way up, or all the way down. All the way in, or all the way out.

In this case, all the way out and extended and off balance for him.

[-N-]

This sounds like you are both facing kind of square.

You give right punch.

He uses right elbow up to deflect.

You take control of wrist and elbow.

He gives left punch.

You release your right hand to Gua.

Then close for headlock.

---

I was thinking for using position to neutralize the left punch.

When you have wrist and elbow control, you can fully extend him so his left cannot punch you.

Use your body to pressure his elbow as your left shoots forward to wrap into reverse guillotine.

It is the Chin Na idea of all the way up, or all the way down. All the way in, or all the way out.

In this case, all the way out and extended and off balance for him.

If you want to be lazy, you can just bend forward onto his elbow, and skip the head control.

[YouKnowWho]

This sounds like you are both facing kind of square.

I'll never use square stance even if I had cross training in WC. We both have right side forward. Otherwise he should use his left Bong Shou to block my right punch. If my right hand can reach to his left wrist, I would use right hook punch instead.

[YouKnowWho]

skip the head control.

I have inversted almost all my lifetime in "head lock". I'll hate not to use it if I have a chance. :D

[-N-]

I'll never use square stance even if I had cross training in WC. We both have right side forward. Otherwise he should use his left Bong Shou to block my right punch. If my right hand can reach to his left wrist, I would use right hook punch instead.

Oh, ok. I just didn't picture how you use right gwa against left attack if he is still right forward and you control his right.

[-N-]

I have inversted almost all my lifetime in "head lock". I'll hate not to use it if I have a chance. :D

Haha. Well, I suggested only because you said that headlock might be overdoing it with your friend.

You mentioned on another post about right lead and not switching sides.

So if you have right lead, and two hand control on his right, would you not step your left forward and attack with your left hand like brush eyebrow or reverse headlock/guillotine? Right hand still keeps control of his right.

[YouKnowWho]

Oh, ok. I just didn't picture how you use right gwa against left attack if he is still right forward and you control his right.
Of course I'll need to use "arm guiding" to guide my opponent's right arm under my left armpit. This way I can free my right arm and use it to Gwa his left punch. In both cases, I need to free my right arm ASAP.


So if you have right lead, and two hand control on his right, would you not step your left forward and attack with your left hand like brush eyebrow or reverse headlock/guillotine? Right hand still keeps control of his right.

I prefer to use my

- left arm to control, and
- right arm to attack.

If I reverse it, my successful rate will drop.