Kung Fu Weapons

[ngokfei]

Dan Dao (單刀, "single knife")

[ngokfei]

Good Comparison of basic types.

[ngokfei]

Nice diagram The Niuweidao (Chinese: 牛尾刀; literally: Ox-Tailed Sword) was a type of Chinese saber (dao) of the late Qing Dynasty period. A heavy bladed weapon with a characteristic flaring tip, it was primarily a civilian weapon, as Imperial troops were never issued it.

[ngokfei]

Here is a pictorial of the major types of single Sabers. #4 is the Oxtail
can you name the others?

[B.Tunks]

Wan dao (yuan dao), yanmao dao, liuye dao.

[RickMatz]

I don't know much about Chinese Swordsmanship. What are the pros and cons of the various saber shapes?

[GeneChing]

It's like that, just bigger. :)

Cool diagrams, ngokfei.

[ngokfei]

Here's a pretty extensive description sheet

[ngokfei]

Yun/Yuan Dao (圓刀) - Circular/Round Knife
Wan/Waan Dao(彎刀) - Curved/Circular Knife

Many are used to calling it a version of the Arabic Scimitar

Another version I've seen has it looking very much more like a Sickle.

And even the terms are used in a movie title.

[ngokfei]

Just giving our Boy Gene a hand in promoting the sponsors products 1st::D

Martial Arts Mart Chinese Saber (http://www.martialartsmart.com/weapons-chinese-weapons-broadswords.html)

[GeneChing]

Anyone ever seen a form with those circular knives (the double ended ones)? Not a movie form - I'm curious to see a minjian or chuantong taolu. I'm not sure that I've even seen an authentic antique of those. Many 'historic' weapons are actually fabrications from opera or temple ornament weapons. That doesn't necessarily invalidate them - those can be antique too - but they were never combat weapons.

[ngokfei]

Its probably a spin off of the Middleastern Daggers known as the Khukuri/Gurka and the Janbiya.

This is the only one I've seen that is double bladed.

[ngokfei]

this is also a cool example but with something extra.

[ShaolinDan]

Totally not into double bladed weapons...way too likely to stab myself. Almost skewered my thigh the one time I ever played with hook swords. :o

[ngokfei]

Practice Practice

Perhaps you may want to start with a pair of practice wooden ones. like these.

[ngokfei]

but from what I read those hook swords are made of pine.

I'd like to recommend a great wood worker here in the USA who makes a wide variety of Chinese Practice Weapons. "Raven STudios"

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=447399218628980&set=pb.195922353776669.-2207520000.1365693033&type=3&theater

The quality speaks for itself.

[GoldenBrain]

Totally not into double bladed weapons...way too likely to stab myself.

I agree 100% with this statement. Plus, anytime I watch somebody using these fantasy weapons they seem way to slow in their movements.

I have a question for ngokfei. If the Ox Tailed Sword is the civilian model then which one is used for military? I just assumed it was for the military as well as civilians but I admit that I'm no expert on Chinese bladed weapons. Personally I like knives or a good Kukri and for swords I prefer the Krabi or Dha. Katanas are nice also but the shorter Krabi/Dha swords move better for me.

[Lucas]

but from what I read those hook swords are made of pine.

I'd like to recommend a great wood worker here in the USA who makes a wide variety of Chinese Practice Weapons. "Raven STudios"

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=447399218628980&set=pb.195922353776669.-2207520000.1365693033&type=3&theater

The quality speaks for itself.

those look nice

[GoldenBrain]

Here's a link to Raven Studios for those who don't participate in Facebook.

http://www.little-raven.com/RS/MA/

I agree with Lucas. Looks like some fine work. It makes me want to break out the lathe and try my hand at making some of my own practice weapons and maybe even a mook jong. I have some fresh eastern red cedar, oak and hickory that I recently cut down to make room for our garden. I set a bunch aside for milling into planks, flooring and such but I think I'll repurpose some of it to make some new toys.

[gunbeatskroty]

pretty badass and scary at the same time...how people used to carve each other up in battlefields with them.....i'd rather be sprayed with an AK-47 over this joint any day if i had to go out.

[Lucas]

how much for a wooden jian? :D

[pazman]

Were hook swords used in the military? They strike me as very unwieldy.

[bawang]

how much for a wooden jian? :D

just use a stick, bro. i use sticks of varying lengths. sticks is a the traditional training weapon in kung fu.


Were hook swords used in the military? They strike me as very unwieldy.

non fantasy hooks dont have the fancy guard or the handle spike.

well known hook weapons were the hook spear and hook mace.

[Lucas]

I just like having hard wood replica for sparring, so I can have the guard....Where do you get good sticks from in the city though? Its probably easier for me to go buy a cheap wood jian at this blade store i know but it will break really fast. Plus I don't drive, I ride a skateboard everywhere I go, so getting to a forest is hard, cuz I have no friends.

[bawang]

....Where do you get good sticks from in the city though?

i get mine from a garbage dump, i also got copper pipes from furniture store.

you can also buy a mop and take off the handle

[Lucas]

you are gung fu genius

[pazman]

just use a stick, bro. i use sticks of varying lengths. sticks is a the traditional training weapon in kung fu.



non fantasy hooks dont have the fancy guard or the handle spike.

well known hook weapons were the hook spear and hook mace.

Cool. One of my teachers has a set of hooks that are much smaller, without guards, and much heavier than the fantasy ones I've seen. I'll ask him next time I see him if he knows how to use them.

With all the genuinely cool weapons in CMA, why do people always resort back to fantasy ones?

[pazman]

I just like having hard wood replica for sparring, so I can have the guard....Where do you get good sticks from in the city though? Its probably easier for me to go buy a cheap wood jian at this blade store i know but it will break really fast. Plus I don't drive, I ride a skateboard everywhere I go, so getting to a forest is hard, cuz I have no friends.

If you want to spar with jian, get a child-size kendo shinai. These are cheap, will last a long time, and not so dangerous to spar with. You can use with or without a guard.

[ngokfei]

goldenbrain:

Ming & Qing Dynasty Dao's tended to be the

yanmao dao 雁毛刀(goose quill/feather Knife/saber) and the

liuye dao柳葉刀 (willow leaf knife/saber)

I was told the basic differences in the images I showed of the 4 types are:

Wan Dao/Pian Dao - optimized for slicing
Yan Mao Dao - straight w/ curved tip, thus less effective slicer
Liu Yie Dao - gently curved thus a better slicer without totally sacrificing the thrust
Niu Wei Dao - optimized for cleaving/cutting through, losing an effective thrust

[ngokfei]

In the end all the training is only useful if you can transfer it to whatever you get your hands on.

Why should you spar with a "Period Piece Designed" weapon is merely to get skilled at the techniques you've probably been training all along in the form.

For me its kind of like doing the various levels of chi sao/tui sao/nim sao. Each has specific rules or guidelines so your forced to work on those techniques that are allowed/inclusive. Kind of like why you should train your jab on both the right and left side even though your a south paw.

[GoldenBrain]

Where do you get good sticks from in the city though?


i get mine from a garbage dump, i also got copper pipes from furniture store.

you can also buy a mop and take off the handle

I like what bawang said, but as an alternative you could also go to the local hardware store and find a hardwood dowel or curtain rod.

If you plan on sparring with them then do what pazman said or order rattan. Hardwood likes to splinter which can be dangerous when sparring. If you go with rattan sticks then I would highly recommend this site. http://kalisticks.webs.com/apps/webstore/

I have ordered several of his premium sticks and they are all beautiful and perfectly matched in pairs. Unfortunately he doesn't make staffs yet but you can get those from... https://www.tigerclaw.com/rattan-bo-martial-arts-pr-6240.html

[GoldenBrain]

goldenbrain:

Ming & Qing Dynasty Dao's tended to be the

yanmao dao 雁毛刀(goose quill/feather Knife/saber) and the

liuye dao柳葉刀 (willow leaf knife/saber)

I was told the basic differences in the images I showed of the 4 types are:

Wan Dao/Pian Dao - optimized for slicing
Yan Mao Dao - straight w/ curved tip, thus less effective slicer
Liu Yie Dao - gently curved thus a better slicer without totally sacrificing the thrust
Niu Wei Dao - optimized for cleaving/cutting through, losing an effective thrust

Thank you Eric! Much appreciated. :)

[ngokfei]

Its also important to store your bladed weapons properly for safety prevent warping and corrosion/rust.

If they come with a case/scabbard then that great. If not then some sort of rack is needed.

I sell a basic rack just for this purpose at only $49.95 (plus S&H)

[SteveLau]

Dan Dao (單刀, "single knife")

I train single edge sword (Dan Dao) regularly. It would be good to own and train the one that you showed in your post. But perhaps the length is too long for me. The ideal specifications for my size would be 32 inches in total length and one lb. in weight.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[ngokfei]

For size I was shown to hold a Dan DAo cupped in your hand by the Guard. the tip of the blade just below your ear lobe.

1lb is very light and I've not held a Real saber that was that light. Most were between 2 1/2 and 3 lbs.

Since your in HK there should be no problem find either a great practice one or even a real antique at a reasonable price.

or may be not according to this recent article I found banning wushu/kung fu weapons in HK.

http://www.scmp.com/article/592529/ban-weapons-strangles-tradition

[SteveLau]

Ngokfei,

The sword that I have now is the first and only one that I bought ten years ago. It is a real weapon - single edge broad sword made of steel. Originally, it was 35 inches long and weighted 2.3 lbs. The centre of gravity is 3 inches away from the hand guard, which is not quite good. I paid a mechanic to have it trimmed down to 32 ins long, 1.25 lbs., and narrower all along the blade body (still not sharpened). Because I could not train with it without straining my wrist no matter what. It is fun to mention that in the autobiography, Total Recall, written by Arnold Schwarzenegger, he said the sword used by him in the movie, Conan the Barbarian, weighs 11 lbs. It is a heavy duty weapon good for piercing and hacking through armour together with bone and fresh. At the end of the day, the weapon that we choose to train must be compatible with the student's physique and purpose. That is what techniques he wants to perform with it.

Sure, there are good real sabers available in town. They cost at least HKD 1,000 each. Any way, I have not much in intention to change sword. Skill is more important than the tool is one big reason. Besides, I am not very dissatisfied with my sword right now.

As a side track of the topic, there are some points that I do not agree with in the article you mentioned. I did some research in the local law in this matter at around the time I bought my sword. IMHO, the store keeper should be quilty as charged. And so am I strictly speaking. But I have committed a light felony of the regulation, while the store keeper have committed a serious one. Also, he was not a first time offender of the regulation.

P.S. Part of the regulation in stating the considered weapons is that it does not needed to be sharpened. Owner of such weapons need to register them with the Police Department.


Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[ngokfei]

Student Weapon Rack with Upgrades
- Mortise & Tenon Profiled Leg Base with Brackets*
- Latched opening to allow kwandao with base spike
- Hanging Pegs
- Rustic Textured Surface to hide those nasty fingerprints
- Post Dragon Pommels
$149 (plus S&H)

[SPJ]

http://www.kungfuqigong.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7383&stc=1&d=1365467174

Good list.

:)

[MightyB]

http://chinesemartialstudies.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/late-qing-era-chinese-executioner1.jpg?w=750

[MightyB]

http://chinesemartialstudies.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/1927-guangzhou-commune.jpg?w=750

[MightyB]

http://sp1.fotolog.com/photo/1/47/109/elpablodelaplebe/1193847706_f.jpg

[Kellen Bassette]

Is that first pic real and is there any history to go along with it?

[MightyB]

Is that first pic real and is there any history to go along with it?

Yeah it's real, it's Bawang on holiday!

but seriously folks - it's from that martial studies website:
A Social and Visual History of the Dadao: The Chinese “Military Big-Saber.” (http://chinesemartialstudies.com/2012/11/26/693/)

*oops - put the wrong story, just corrected the link

[Kellen Bassette]

Yeah it's real, it's Bawang on holiday!

but seriously folks - it's from that martial studies website:
A Social and Visual History of the Dadao: The Chinese “Military Big-Saber.” (http://chinesemartialstudies.com/2012/11/26/693/)

*oops - put the wrong story, just corrected the link

Great article! But if it was actually Bawang, those would be h0nkey heads. ;)

[Kymus]

I think you both are correct