Horse Stance - how much, how soon?

[Monkey King]

Hi guys,

I'm new to this forum and to kung fu in general. It's an art I've always admired but only recently been presented with an opportunity to learn it that I couldn't turn down.

I've been training for the last two months, learning basic kicks and movements, and Wu Bu Quan. Last night I was asked to do Horse Stance for the first time. Boy was it a struggle! I've read the old thread on H.S, the arguments for an against it etc, my question is on how long a beginner should be able to hold it for, and how often you should practice to progress.

I started with 10 seconds last night, it seemed a struggle, then up to 30 secs, 45 secs and finally a minute which was agonising! My goal was for 90 seconds but my legs were like jelly at 60 seconds and I had to throw in the towel.:confused:

[PalmStriker]

Hey Monkey King! Welcome to KFMF! Your horse riding stance can become a comfortable, ha ! destination by practicing both high and low stance.* Gradual development of muscle strength and nervous system acceptance for this posture. Ten minutes is good. If you are a Shaolin Monk you are going to hold for longer, Buddha be praised. :D

[xinyidizi]

If it's really that difficult for you then I suggest practicing hunyuan standing higher like this. Your feet should be shoulder width apart. Your knees should be over your feet but don't let them pass your toes.


Start from 5~10 minutes and gradually increase it to 20~30 minutes. After you are comfortable with that then you can do your horse stance.

[Monkey King]

10 minutes?!?! How many months of practice does it take to get to that? :eek:

Is it recommended to practice horse every day, or every two days?

I wasn't aware there was a high and low version of the stance, I'm guessing the high stance isn't as uncomfortable.

[Monkey King]

If it's really that difficult for you then I suggest practicing hunyuan standing higher like this. Your feet should be shoulder width apart. Your knees should be over your feet but don't let them pass your toes.


Start from 5~10 minutes and gradually increase it to 20~30 minutes. After you are comfortable with that then you can do your horse stance.

Thanks for this, I could use that as a warm up before trying the stance.

[wiz cool c]

horse stance is the single most important exercise in almost all kung fu styles. it will create a root. the root is for balance, so your opponent won't throw or knock you to the ground. and generate all your power for strikes, locks and throws.


you can start with 30 sec, work your way up to a few minutes. work on that for a while,then begin to gradually work up to ten minutes. eventually you want to do 20 to 40 min. it is hard work ,but will be well worth it. i learned the hard way just how important a good root is.

one more thing. a good way to keep your mind off your tired legs,is to practice your hand techniques while in your horse stance. i have been training iron hand lately,and smack the iron hand bag while doing horse stance. but you can simply throw reverse punches or block or others.

[mawali]

10 minutes?!?! How many months of practice does it take to get to that? :eek:

Is it recommended to practice horse every day, or every two days?

I wasn't aware there was a high and low version of the stance, I'm guessing the high stance isn't as uncomfortable.

For you, it will take 10x as long.:D
One usually starts small though, as I have seen, Shaolin and wushu types tend to do the toilet bowl mabu, which damages the kness over time while the 'yangsheng' mabu version (slight bend of knees) slowly reintegrates core alignment to allow for longer standing over time (with reason, of course and your teachers' intent)

[Monkey King]

For you, it will take 10x as long.:D
One usually starts small though, as I have seen, Shaolin and wushu types tend to do the toilet bowl mabu, which damages the kness over time while the 'yangsheng' mabu version (slight bend of knees) slowly reintegrates core alignment to allow for longer standing over time (with reason, of course and your teachers' intent)

It's the lower style mabu that I'm being asked to practice. I'm determined to boost my time as much as possible before next Sunday's class!

[xinyidizi]

Do as your teacher says but my opinion is that higher hunyuan(shoulder width~3/2 shoulder width) is much better for beginners. It's not about how low you can go, it's about gradually creating a solid root in the shape of an arc. Doing it higher helps your hips to relax on all sides. Gradually you can increase the distance of your feet and go a bit lower but doing it too low before your hips are relaxed will cause it to open too much in the front and get tense at the back.

[xinyidizi]

I personally prefer to practice it the way the guy in red(or pink:cool:) does. As you see it's round like an arc and low enough which gives him flexibility and stability at the same time. The guy in white however is IMO stuck where he is.

[Monkey King]

It's like the guy in white that I'm being asked to do. When I get home today I'll practice horse for a while before going to the gym for some cardio to help loosen up.

Thanks for all the pointers folks.

[MasterKiller]

Hi guys,

I've been training for the last two months....Last night I was asked to do Horse Stance for the first time. :

You should have been doing Horse Stance from day one, before learning any forms.

[Brule]

You should have been doing Horse Stance from day one, before learning any forms.

I agree, he should have been doing horse from the minute he stepped onto the floor.

Leave that place and look for a real school to train at.

[YouKnowWho]

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7465&d=1367246495

This horse stance is too wide for my standard. The proper width should be:

shoulder width + 2 fists distance.

If your horse stance is too wide, you are not stable if your opponent springs one of your legs from inside out.

[pazman]

Guy in pink is doing "horse stance". Guy in white is doing....something?

[Golden Arms]

Those of you that advocate only doing the horse the guy in pink is doing better have done a lot of the lower, bigger horse prior to starting that one.

[GoldenBrain]

Welcome to the forum Monkey King.

You'll get there if you keep practicing. I agree with those who said the guy in pink is doing it correctly. At first you'll feel like you're going to fall over backwards and your quads are going to blow out of your legs, but in time as you build your root it'll all just click into place for you. I recommend also using wall sitting, lunges and squats to help build the muscles. In our system you can't get a black belt unless you can do an hour of horse stance. At least we break it up into 30 mins of high, 15 mins of mid level and 15 mins of low horse. That's including a 7 to 8 hour test. It's a true gut buster.

[PalmStriker]

10 minutes?!?! How many months of practice does it take to get to that? :eek:

Is it recommended to practice horse every day, or every two days?

I wasn't aware there was a high and low version of the stance, I'm guessing the high stance isn't as uncomfortable.
Oh, ten minutes is not so long when you've been doing it for over 30 years. I did instruct a young practitioner many years ago to hold his palms out in front of his chest, facing each other at right angles while in a horse stance to help condition his wrists/nerves. I told him that if he did this, he would forget all about the pain, etc. in his hips/thighs,legs. He practiced that way from then on. :D

[PalmStriker]

I personally prefer to practice it the way the guy in red(or pink:cool:) does. As you see it's round like an arc and low enough which gives him flexibility and stability at the same time. The guy in white however is IMO stuck where he is.

I prefer the pink guy stance also. The low stance is very Hung Gar / turn to either side with "WAR PALM" strike. :)

[YouKnowWho]

ten minutes is not so long when you've been doing it for over 30 years.

Your mind should think about anything except your own body.

- My teacher's teacher could stay in horse stance to "finish a dinner".
- My teacher could stay in horse stance to "finish watching a Beijin opera show".
- I can stay in horse stance to "finish a beer". :o :( :p

[IronFist]

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7465&d=1367246495

This horse stance is too wide for my standard. The proper width should be:

shoulder width + 2 fists distance.

If your horse stance is too wide, you are not stable if your opponent springs one of your legs from inside out.

An easy way to find the proper distance is to stand with your feet together and then:

Turn the toes out to 45 degrees, heels touching.

Now turn the heels out to 45 degrees, leaving your toes where they were.

Now leave your heels where they are and move the toes out until the feet are parallel.

The final width will depend on how big your feet are, though.

[YouKnowWho]

An easy way to find the proper distance is to stand with your feet together and then:

Turn the toes out to 45 degrees, heels touching.

Now turn the heels out to 45 degrees, leaving your toes where they were.

Now leave your heels where they are and move the toes out until the feet are parallel.

The final width will depend on how big your feet are, though.
I think you may talk about the shoulder width. In the throwing art, the shoulder with is better than the shoulder width + 2 fists distance. Since in striking art, people like to switch horse stance into 4-6 stance (40% weight on leading leg), the horse stance used in the striking art is a bit wider.

It's a bell curve.

http://imageshack.us/a/img217/2254/bellcurve.jpg

When you have both feet touching, you have poor balance. When you move your feet futher apart, your balance start to improve. When you have reached to a certain point, if you keep moving your feet apart, your balance will get poor again.

[Drake]

Get it in during the day as time allows. I do it while brushing my teeth, etc.

Strong legs also make you a better runner. Squats also reinforce all of this.

[Lucas]

the guy in the white is doing a modern wushu thing.

its also important to note, when you do your horse stance when your legs start to shake that is a good thing, dont stop the moment they start to shake. force through a bit until it becomes almost uncontrolable and you will fall down.

[Drake]

the guy in the white is doing a modern wushu thing.

its also important to note, when you do your horse stance when your legs start to shake that is a good thing, dont stop the moment they start to shake. force through a bit until it becomes almost uncontrolable and you will fall down.

Or just fall down. You probably won't die.

[Lucas]

Or just fall down. You probably won't die.

I do horse stance on two wooden posts over a pool of hungry tiger sharks while my legs have small cuts on them.

[Golden Arms]

http://www.tao-yin.com/archives/img/13_00.jpg

This is more what I had in mind.

[Lucas]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_l8GFIQjSVrA/S8wuXl4iFII/AAAAAAAAAEk/uDep9iNgNzI/s1600/horse+stance-00023.jpg

http://www.taichi-chuan.ru/foto/U22.jpg

[wenshu]

An easy way to find the proper distance is to stand with your feet together and then:

Turn the toes out to 45 degrees, heels touching.

Now turn the heels out to 45 degrees, leaving your toes where they were.

Now leave your heels where they are and move the toes out until the feet are parallel.

The final width will depend on how big your feet are, though.

****ing wing chun

[YouKnowWho]

http://www.taichi-chuan.ru/foto/U22.jpg
I don't care how old this person may be. I don't like his "outer" horse stance. It won't work if you use it for your hip throw. You may even hurt your knee joints by doing so. By using the SC system standard, this is a no no.

I also don't like to use it in striking. When you "spring" from your back leg, your body is not moving forward but moving 45 degree backward. By using the Baji system standard, this is also a no no.

If the outer horse stance cannot be used in both throwing art and striking art, where can you use it anyway? Performance? It doesn't even look pretty.

[PalmStriker]

Your mind should think about anything except your own body.

- My teacher's teacher could stay in horse stance to "finish a dinner".
- My teacher could stay in horse stance to "finish watching a Beijin opera show".
- I can stay in horse stance to "finish a beer". :o :( :p
Now we're talk'in" ! :D https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+of+chinese+beer,+chinese+cuisine&client=firefox-a&hs=VAN&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=CG6AUYjVB7TG4AP7oIHQDQ&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=807

[GoldenBrain]

I don't care how old this person may be. I don't like his "outer" horse stance. It won't work if you use it for your hip throw. You may even hurt your knee joints by doing so. By using the SC system standard, this is a no no.

I also don't like to use it in striking. When you "spring" from your back leg, your body is not moving forward but moving 45 degree backward. By using the Baji system standard, this is also a no no.

If the outer horse stance cannot be used in both throwing art and striking art, where can you use it anyway? Performance? It doesn't even look pretty.



We call that duck footing. It's a no no where I come from also. The photo Golden Arms posted is correct. Feet should be parallel.

[bawang]

I've been training for the last two months, learning basic kicks and movements, and Wu Bu Quan. Last night I was asked to do Horse Stance for the first time.
LOL

my question is on how long a beginner should be able to hold it for, and how often you should practice to progress.

2 sets erryday 10 second first day add 10 sec erryday

[lance]

Hi guys,

I'm new to this forum and to kung fu in general. It's an art I've always admired but only recently been presented with an opportunity to learn it that I couldn't turn down.

I've been training for the last two months, learning basic kicks and movements, and Wu Bu Quan. Last night I was asked to do Horse Stance for the first time. Boy was it a struggle! I've read the old thread on H.S, the arguments for an against it etc, my question is on how long a beginner should be able to hold it for, and how often you should practice to progress.

I started with 10 seconds last night, it seemed a struggle, then up to 30 secs, 45 secs and finally a minute which was agonising! My goal was for 90 seconds but my legs were like jelly at 60 seconds and I had to throw in the towel.:confused:

Monkey King , you just started your kung fu training so take it slow and easy . What everybody said about horse stance training is all true , but it does ' nt have to be a torture to your own body .

I practice kung fu myself I did the horse too , you see monkey king kung fu is like all the other systems or styles of martial arts in general . You have to develop it inorder for the stance to really work for you . Stand up straight starting with the toe open up and open up your heel step 4 steps apart , and sit . This is the way I do my horse stance , how long to do it ? 3 mintues , monkey king the reason why you ' re struggling is because your leg muscles is ' nt developed yet , so that ' s why you ' re hurting as you ' re doing the horse stance . Start with 3 mintues a day whenever you can , and if 3 mintues a day is to easy for you go up to 2 more mintues . This way as you go on practicing the horse stance your leg muscles should be developing already . But the longer you do it the more stronger your stance will become , then there are times when you play around with your friends like pushing around eachother , if you can be oushed off balanced easily , then it means you need more training in your horse stance training . But if you can ' t be pushed off easily then you ' re pretty much progressing as you go on practicing . This is how I got stronger too .

Like walking , if you ' re out of shape and you really want to get into shape or need to get into shape . Start with 15 mintues of walking and continue , the next day with 15 mintues and so on . But if your job or rather if you ' re walking to school as an example that ' s also beneficial too .

But for beginners like you this is the way I did it , other than that you can do the walking horse , from horse stance go into your other stances and so on , this walking horse excercise makes you movable and strenghtens horse as well .
I know that other people may or may not say anything against my post , but monkey king try and do my way too . You start slow then gradually build up .
If you ' re tired , take a rest then continue when you really can , this way you ' ll progress too . People on this thread gave you alot of ideas right ? So start doing it , and you ' ll progress too .

Take Care ,
Lance

[Lucas]

I don't care how old this person may be. I don't like his "outer" horse stance. It won't work if you use it for your hip throw. You may even hurt your knee joints by doing so. By using the SC system standard, this is a no no.

I also don't like to use it in striking. When you "spring" from your back leg, your body is not moving forward but moving 45 degree backward. By using the Baji system standard, this is also a no no.

If the outer horse stance cannot be used in both throwing art and striking art, where can you use it anyway? Performance? It doesn't even look pretty.

I think from the two pictures, we see the difference each man will have in ability to lift from the stances they are in.

[Brule]

Once you can get past the shaky legs your body will be at rest. This usually starts at 10 minutes. At least from my experience.

[Golden Arms]

I think from the two pictures, we see the difference each man will have in ability to lift from the stances they are in.

The horse for lifting and the horse for hitting have different structures. I don't know who that Tai Chi guy is in the picture.

[Lucas]

if you can find a place where you can settle into the stance and relax. try and be as relaxed as you can. the key is to find that special place where you can feel nice and calm and relaxed and still be in pain.

[bawang]

horse stance training is retard proof. cant hurt urself doing it. theres no need to write essays about it.

theres also no reason to patiently explain to someone who will prolly quit after 2 weeks of any real hard training.

[Lucas]

horse stance training is retard proof. cant hurt urself doing it. theres no need to write essays about it.

theres also no reason to patiently explain to someone who will prolly quit after 2 weeks of any real hard training.

/win!!!!!!!!!

[RAF]

In the baji horse stance taught by the Liu Yun Qiao line, one of the purposes of the training is store power for lateral, crab-like movement which is characteristic of the movements in all of the forms.

This horse stance, in upper levels of training, including the da qiang trainng, transitions to a half horse/half bow stance.

http://www.wutangcenter.com/wt/bajipigua.htm

[GeneChing]

That was my fav line from Forbidden Kingdom (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42599).

That being said, I use Horse Stance applications every day. I take a dump every day. Sometimes more.

It even works in the street.

:D
I know. Repost. Or perhaps a redump. Speaking of which....

[PalmStriker]

:) Best Use for Horse Stance: http://www.chinaonlinemuseum.com/painting-zhao-mengfu-man-riding-a-horse.php

[LaRoux]

:) Best Use for Horse Stance: http://www.chinaonlinemuseum.com/painting-zhao-mengfu-man-riding-a-horse.php

Exactly.

Training a horse stance for fighting makes about as much sense as this does for stopping the guy running at her:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1BOMU1KjQJo

[Syn7]

IMO you should go as close as you can to 90 degrees(for strength exercises, not for application) for at least 3 minutes while maintaining proper form. Move on when you are ready. Once you get to 90 degrees, just keep adding on the time.

[YouKnowWho]

If you just train the "bowing throw" solo drill 200 times non-stop daily, you will get more benefit out of it than to just do the horse stance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPfrHy1siYo&feature=youtu.be

[LaRoux]

IMO you should go as close as you can to 90 degrees(for strength exercises, not for application) for at least 3 minutes while maintaining proper form. Move on when you are ready. Once you get to 90 degrees, just keep adding on the time.

That's not strength.

[RickMatz]

Horse stance training should start young.

[GoldenBrain]

That's not strength.

Sure it is. It's a great exercise for building leg strength and endurance as well as strengthening the connecting points in the knees, hips and ankles. It also helps to develop your mental and physical toughness when performing this exercise over long periods of time.

Squats, lunges, leg presses, wall sitting...etc are also great exercises which build strength and endurance. To rule out any exercise is your limitation and not others who know better so troll on cupcake...;)