BJJ beginner question

[ketchup]

I am taking BJJ at a self defense (as opposed to sport) oriented school-Gracie Jiu jitsu.
It seems to me that when someone is in my guard (if I'm using the term right), when I'm on my back with my legs wrapped around their hips and their head hugged down next to mine with my right arm wrapped around their head and my left hand on their right upper arm, hugging them close, that I am very vulnerable to being bitten in this position in a streetfight- it would be very easy for the guy on top to bite my neck, shoulder, chest, etc..

Any thoughts on this? am I wrong?

[Frost]

ill take a break from harassing my favourite mod to answer you :)

You are not really wrong but A few questions for you:
1 you are on your back, your opponent is on top of you where would you rather have him be if not in your guard? Sat on top of you? In side control?
2 if he is in you guard would you rather he be sat up having momentum behind his strikes to your head or down low controlled by you?
3 how much does a bite to the chest or shoulder (or even neck for that matter) hurt compared to say a full force punch to the face, and elbow to the eye socket or a headbutt to the nose?
4 who is to say you are being static and simply holding, and not pulling/pushing his head with your arms, moving his hips with your lower body and moving your own head making it harder for him to bite??


The guard is the best option when you are in a bad position on your back with your opponent on top of you; it allows you to control his base and his ability to hit you by using your hips and lower body along with upper body tie ups. You can attack with submissions, some strikes but mainly it allows you to either sweep him or perform a get up, all of these things are nearly impossible to do from any other position off you back

[Wayfaring]

I am taking BJJ at a self defense (as opposed to sport) oriented school-Gracie Jiu jitsu.
It seems to me that when someone is in my guard (if I'm using the term right), when I'm on my back with my legs wrapped around their hips and their head hugged down next to mine with my right arm wrapped around their head and my left hand on their right upper arm, hugging them close, that I am very vulnerable to being bitten in this position in a streetfight- it would be very easy for the guy on top to bite my neck, shoulder, chest, etc..

Any thoughts on this? am I wrong?

Yes there is vulnerability there - but it's a tradeoff. For example, Roy Harris (BJJ black belt) teaches an effective self defense move from that position top in guard (mostly to law enforcement) that is a bite grinding the opponent's nipple area, which is sensitive. It's effective.

But a greater danger is your opponent getting posture and raining down bombs. You can bleed from a nipple bite and still finish a fight. You can't if you are unconscious.

The mitigating factors are that as you get better at the guard position in BJJ you can use your hip mobility to control your opponent's posture. Also with the Gracie Combatives you could control posture as you describe then when they initiate a bite move to the other punch block movement with feet on hips, knees in pushing them away with hips up.

Remember that part of learning the guard is learning to mess with your opponent's balance and controlling distance to your opponent. The more you develop your hip movement in the guard the more you will see this.

[ketchup]

Thanks for the responses guys. I am enjoying class and think its good stuff, I was just surprised to see such a GLARING hole/vulnerability, and in the foundational position of the art, which I understand the guard (on your back) to be. In fact, I think I would choose a punch in the face over having someone take a chunk out of my neck/shoulder/chest- I think the bite would be more damaging not only psychologically, but physically. It just seems strange that I've read about how the guard is the secret to beating a bigger/stronger opponent (from Helio, originally), just hold them there until they wear out, then choke/lock them, but meantime there's this big opening.

Guess my point is it seems like it'd be difficult to be relaxed in this position waiting for the guy to tire out knowing that at any moment he could realize that he can bite you and go ahead and take advantage of what may be his only option/out.

[omarthefish]

You don't just hold him there waiting for him to tire (he won't).

You just haven't learned how to attack from that position yet. After a while you won't be so passive down there. You'll start learning how to attack his arms, his neck and, from a self defense perspective, how to sweep him so you turn it around from him in your guard to you in mount.

Eventually, you can learn to have a very proactive guard.

[Dragonzbane76]

In fact, I think I would choose a punch in the face over having someone take a chunk out of my neck/shoulder/chest- I think the bite would be more damaging not only psychologically, but physically

really? I think I would have someone bite me preferably. A punch could possibly provide more damage and ultimately knock you out, which at that point everything else does not matter.

honestly get some practice using your hips and you will see that with practice you can control more easily. BJJ guys have some of the best guards and know how to position themselves in advantageous positions.

[Lucas]

its harder to bite than some people think too. here is a test, close your mouth, press your mouth up against your bisep, and press it well, then try to bite yourself. the first thing you will notice is how hard it is to get your own lips out of the way, and how far you have to open your mouth. if you remain active and keep the pressure on, it can be more difficult for someone to bite you than it may seem. if you are truly worried about people biting you, then a step for you to take is to learn how to deal with that, so if you are in a position where you think you are fighting a biter, you can fall back on what you have trained to try and mitigate any chances of being bitten...

if you feel yourself being bitten, rip his frakin ear off...he'll stop

[ketchup]

Omar-

I did alot of reading before starting, my understanding is that Helio Gracie's claim to fame for his art is that it allowed a smaller weaker man to beat a larger stronger one and the way it does this is through holding them in guard, where they can't really harm you, until they exhaust themselves with ineffectual attacks or they make a mistake- after either of these you would then defeat them. I think he compared it to the patient waiting of a boa constrictor, one reason why alot of his fights were without time limit and went for hours- that time was necessary for the strategy to work. His philosophy is that if you ( a bigger, stronger person) can't harm or defeat me, then that is a victory for me. My understanding is that his jiu jitsu was very yielding or passive. He was quite clear about this.

However, from my perspective, seeing this vulnerability (of being bitten) in the guard position throws a bit of a monkey wrench into all of that- if they get your neck in the right place(s) it could, potentially, be life threatening.

I suppose one could adopt a much more aggressive way of expressing the art, to which my concern would be less applicable, (and I am aware that there are lines/lineages that do practice a more aggressive form), although the Gracie school I'm attending does not, I believe, teach that (and arguably, not to start a sh-t storm:D it would not be jiu jitsu, in the purest/original sense of the art created/modified by Helio, which is what attracted me in the first place).

[ketchup]

Coincidentally, have been watching the film 'Gracies and the birth of vale tudo' tonight and at 34 minutes in Ryan Gracie is in a fight with a family competitor and is bitten on the ear while having the other guy in his guard in exactly the position I described above http://vimeo.com/65980525

[omarthefish]

I suppose one could adopt a much more aggressive way of expressing the art, to which my concern would be less applicable, (and I am aware that there are lines/lineages that do practice a more aggressive form), although the Gracie school I'm attending does not, I believe, teach that (and arguably, not to start a sh-t storm:D it would not be jiu jitsu, in the purest/original sense of the art created/modified by Helio, which is what attracted me in the first place).

I didn't say "aggressive". I said "proactive". Completely different ideas.

Your description sounds like you are doing the bottom guy version of the "lay n' pray".

If the guy on top has got his head down next to yours and you are holding him in tight, that's basically what it's called except usually it's something the top guy does to avoid getting submitted. I'm not any kind of BJJ expert so I don't like getting too deep into this tactically. I've only dabbled. But basically, you are not restricted to holding him in tight like that. You can also push him away (with your hips mainly).

Holding him in tight prevents punching but makes it harder to sweep or armlock or triangle. Creating space lets you attack his arms (and prevents him from biting you) but then it gives him more room for ground and pound. OTOH, as soon as he starts punching you from your guard, he's also more vulnerable to being swept or armbarred etc. Point is, good players mix it up a bit. Sometimes they close it tight; sometimes they create space. And then there's lateral movement too. Good guard players can still play defensive games while being extremely active.

[Frost]

Thanks for the responses guys. I am enjoying class and think its good stuff, I was just surprised to see such a GLARING hole/vulnerability, and in the foundational position of the art, which I understand the guard (on your back) to be. In fact, I think I would choose a punch in the face over having someone take a chunk out of my neck/shoulder/chest- I think the bite would be more damaging not only psychologically, but physically. It just seems strange that I've read about how the guard is the secret to beating a bigger/stronger opponent (from Helio, originally), just hold them there until they wear out, then choke/lock them, but meantime there's this big opening.

Guess my point is it seems like it'd be difficult to be relaxed in this position waiting for the guy to tire out knowing that at any moment he could realize that he can bite you and go ahead and take advantage of what may be his only option/out.

you really need to train more
1 its not the foundational position its 1 of 4 key positions the other three are on top, go figure that :rolleyes:
2 go watch the gracie in action series most fights start with them initiating the takedown getting mount and beating the guy senseless as i have said before the guard is the best position to be in in the worst spot you can be in, on your back
no one really advocates jumpin guard in a street fight unless you are in real trouble
3 go let someone actually punch you whilst inside your guard and then come back and make this statement :)

[Frost]

Coincidentally, have been watching the film 'Gracies and the birth of vale tudo' tonight and at 34 minutes in Ryan Gracie is in a fight with a family competitor and is bitten on the ear while having the other guy in his guard in exactly the position I described above http://vimeo.com/65980525

actually ryan did the biting whilst mounted on top of the other guy, like i aid you really need to actually just train

did you watch the rest of the film where they were practising their takedowns, getting mount and beating people up from there?? how helio was fighting guys 50 pounds and above bigger, the guard was kind of important to him lol but he would still prefer to be on top hence training throws and the other 3 hey positions

[omarthefish]

you really need to train more
1 its not the foundational position its 1 of 4 key positions the other three are on top, go figure that :rolleyes: ...

For MMA or self-defense, sure, but you gotta admit, in competitive sport BJJ, it's pretty common these days to even see matches where both competitors sit on their buts and scoot around trying to drag the other guy into their guard. :o

I am well aware that most of the "old guard" complain about it and say it's lousy Jujitsu but that doesn't mean it isn't a big part of the game recently.

[Frost]

For MMA or self-defense, sure, but you gotta admit, in competitive sport BJJ, it's pretty common these days to even see matches where both competitors sit on their buts and scoot around trying to drag the other guy into their guard. :o

I am well aware that most of the "old guard" complain about it and say it's lousy Jujitsu but that doesn't mean it isn't a big part of the game recently.
its even more common to see them tie up and tie to throw each other and land in one of the other three key positions :)

But i agree in BJJ you do see the butt scoot thats for sure, but for self defense (which this guy is after) its not the foundational positional, hell even in BJJ you still place equal time on top positions even if your school does like to scoot :)

[ketchup]

Frost
-yes, I need to train more. I've only taken one class, so I think that would be obvious? :confused:

1 When i wrote that its the foundational position, the guard was the alteration that Helio made to what his brother taught him that enabled a smaller guy to survive against a larger guy
2 What difference does it make who the biter was? They were both bjj guys and it was the exact position I described
3 I have been punched in the face and i have bitten, when punched I recovered quickly, the person I bit went to the hospital, and may have been a plastic surgery candidate afterwards-

While I appreciate your help, the tone of your posts has taken a sarcastic and derisive turn, unfortunately. Keep it out of your posts to me.

[Frost]

Frost
-yes, I need to train more. I've only taken one class, so I think that would be obvious? :confused:

1 When i wrote that its the foundational position, the guard was the alteration that Helio made to what his brother taught him that enabled a smaller guy to survive against a larger guy
2 What difference does it make who the biter was? They were both bjj guys and it was the exact position I described
3 I have been punched in the face and i have bitten, when punched I recovered quickly, the person I bit went to the hospital, and may have been a plastic surgery candidate afterwards-

While I appreciate your help, the tone of your posts has taken a sarcastic and derisive turn, unfortunately. Keep it out of your posts to me.

Im sorry but i have answered these same ill informed opinions before and mostly from trolls so i tend to be short and to the point. You need to train more and think less.
For a start ryan bit the guy from mount, the guard is fundermentlly different because you have control of their hips in that position and can control their base and balance, you cant do that from mount
secondly i have be bitten and also pounded by punches in MMA, when you are on the floor and cant absorb the blow its much worse than taking a standing punch
thirdly helio still believed in the 4 pillar positions, mount guard side control and back mount he never said anything about the guard being the most important so its a straw argument at best, trolling at worst

[Wayfaring]

However, from my perspective, seeing this vulnerability (of being bitten) in the guard position throws a bit of a monkey wrench into all of that- if they get your neck in the right place(s) it could, potentially, be life threatening.


You are being over dramatic about a vulnerability. Although it's a possibility, it is also a possibility to crank an elbow into someone's mouth as they open it to bite you and break their jaw. It's a possibility to sweep them so you're in mount. It's a possibility that you can use your hands to push or punch his head in a direction every time he tries to bite you and prevent him from catching hold.

[guy b.]

I am taking BJJ at a self defense (as opposed to sport) oriented school-Gracie Jiu jitsu.
It seems to me that when someone is in my guard (if I'm using the term right), when I'm on my back with my legs wrapped around their hips and their head hugged down next to mine with my right arm wrapped around their head and my left hand on their right upper arm, hugging them close, that I am very vulnerable to being bitten in this position in a streetfight- it would be very easy for the guy on top to bite my neck, shoulder, chest, etc..

Any thoughts on this? am I wrong?

You are correct. A particular weakness of bjj is the possibility of meeting an assailant that will not abide by normal conventions of physical combat and will bite, gouge, head stomp, and stab at the first opportunity. The positions used in bjj render the exponent particularly vulnerable to this kind of psychopathic attack. Thankfully such attackers are rare. But it is worth considering.

[guy b.]

Really it depends how you use jiu jitsu. It is great (without parallel) as an emergency fallback if you end up getting taken down. It is idiotic as a first line self defence in real fighting

[YouKnowWho]

No matter how complete that you intend to train in "sport", there is always something missing. To be able to dodge rock throwing from 20 feet away is one good example. The thing is where will you draw the line? The "sport" environment can help you to develop skill. It can also help you to develop some bad habit if you are not careful.

http://imageshack.us/a/img687/6206/wrestling2z.jpg

[guy b.]

No matter how complete that you intend to train in "sport", there is always something missing. To be able to dodge rock throwing from 20 feet away is one good example. The thing is where will you draw the line? The "sport" environment can help you to develop skill. It can also help you to develop some bad habit if you are not careful.

http://imageshack.us/a/img687/6206/wrestling2z.jpg

Western wrestling is pure buffoonery. Far better something like judo for a real fight

[YouKnowWho]

it would be very easy for the guy on top to bite my neck, shoulder, chest, etc..

All position will have "leak". It's up to you whether you know how to "seal that leak" or not. For example, when you get your opponent into a one arm control head lock, his free hand can poke at your eye at that moment. If you can take him down fast enough, you can prevent his free hand attack.

[guy b.]

All position will have "leak". It's up to you whether you know how to "seal that leak" or not. For example, when you get your opponent into a one arm control head lock, his free hand can poke at your eye at that moment. If you can take him down fast enough, you can prevent his free hand attack.

Why put your eye where someone can gouge it unless you have to?

[YouKnowWho]

Why put your eye where someone can gouge it unless you have to?
You may be able to guide your opponent's arms to a safe place, but you can't keep his arms there forever. If your body is close enough to your opponent's body, his hand should be able to reach to your eyes, groin area, ... That's the price you have to pay to be in the clinching range. This is why, groin attack, eye gauge, bite, ... should be included as part of your combat training even in the "sport" environment. This way, your body will be fully alert and be able to re-adjust your head/body position.

[Lucas]

You may be able to guide your opponent's arms to a safe place, but you can't keep his arms there forever. If your body is close enough to your opponent's body, his hand should be able to reach to your eyes, groin area, ... That's the price you have to pay to be in the clinching range. This is why, groin attack, eye gauge, bite, ... should be included as part of your combat training even in the "sport" environment. This way, your body will be fully alert.

I agree. Too many sportsmen get comfortable with the idea that these types of attacks are not allowed, this even goes so far as to say they are completely non-effective in any scenario. The most often used example is a famous, extremely skilled practitioner defending against such attacks. The obviously glaring hole in that argument is; Are you as skilled as that man? And are you dense enough to think that everyone will always be able to defend against these attacks 100% of the time against anyone in the world?? If you put your thumb on someones eye and start to push as hard as you can, they freak out. Doesnt matter who you are, if you get into position and can feel the eye in true danger, your body reacts, and you try to escape.

How many of you are hardcore enough to lose an eye knowingly?

[Dragonzbane76]

Western wrestling is pure buffoonery. Far better something like judo for a real fight

if you are speaking of "Pro" wrestling then yes. If you are speaking of traditional wrestling "collegiate" style or free then I would have to say that many of the elements present within it can be used to great effect if you apply them. Of course if you are working within the system of rules then it is limited in "street" sense, but it can be adapted very proficiently to "street", but any style or styles can be. It's a fool that thinks a whole "system" of fighting is "buffoonery"

[guy b.]

You may be able to guide your opponent's arms to a safe place, but you can't keep his arms there forever. If your body is close enough to your opponent's body, his hand should be able to reach to your eyes, groin area, ... That's the price you have to pay to be in the clinching range. This is why, groin attack, eye gauge, bite, ... should be included as part of your combat training even in the "sport" environment. This way, your body will be fully alert and be able to re-adjust your head/body position.

Why clinch unless you have to?

[Dragonzbane76]

I agree. Too many sportsmen get comfortable with the idea that these types of attacks are not allowed, this even goes so far as to say they are completely non-effective in any scenario. The most often used example is a famous, extremely skilled practitioner defending against such attacks. The obviously glaring hole in that argument is; Are you as skilled as that man? And are you dense enough to think that everyone will always be able to defend against these attacks 100% of the time against anyone in the world?? If you put your thumb on someones eye and start to push as hard as you can, they freak out. Doesnt matter who you are, if you get into position and can feel the eye in true danger, your body reacts, and you try to escape.

How many of you are hardcore enough to lose an eye knowingly?

I agree that anyone can become complacent in such areas. But my money would be on the guy that spends a lot of time on the ground and is comfortable in those positions more so than the guy that thinks he's going to eye gouge and fish hook his way out of them.

[guy b.]

I agree that anyone can become complacent in such areas. But my money would be on the guy that spends a lot of time on the ground and is comfortable in those positions more so than the guy that thinks he's going to eye gouge and fish hook his way out of them.

Depends if you get a psychopath or a normal person

[Dragonzbane76]

there are always variables to anything.

[guy b.]

If you bank on a psychopath then you won't be disappointed

[YouKnowWho]

Why clinch unless you have to?
I can come up many reasons:

- If your opponent is a striker and you want to take his striking ability away ASAP.
- You are in a crowded space such as a train station that you are just next to your opponent with both bodies touching.
- You don't want to stand in the court to explain why you had broken your opponent's nose.
- ...

[ketchup]

Youknowwho- The creator/adaptor of modern BJJ (Helio Gracie) intended it to be a martial art and is against the sport version with all the rules and doesn't like it or believe in it. Some (Gracie) schools still teach the art with a self-defense focus (not sport), including the one I'm attending.

Frost- Cool. Since Helio's passed on, we can agree to disagree on the relative value he placed on the guard position.

[YouKnowWho]

Youknowwho- The creator/adaptor of modern BJJ (Helio Gracie) intended it to be a martial art and is against the sport version with all the rules and doesn't like it or believe in it. Some (Gracie) schools still teach the art with a self-defense focus (not sport), including the one I'm attending.

How far do you want to stretch your "combat" training (I don't like the term "self-defense")?

Have you included

- cold weapon?
- hot weapon?
- multiple opponent's?
- rocks, daggers throwing?
- kick/step on your opponent's head while he is on the ground?
- small finger joints manipulation?
- ...

As long as you use a safe skill "testing" environment, it's "sport" by definition.

[ketchup]

Not sure what you mean by a cold or hot weapon?

Not sure what you mean by a safe skill testing environment? As opposed to....?

[YouKnowWho]

Not sure what you mean by a cold or hot weapon?

Not sure what you mean by a safe skill testing environment? As opposed to....?

cold weapon - knife, sword, staff, spear, ...
hot weapon - firearm, grenade, cannon, missile, ...
safe skill testing environment - you don't have to kill everyday. :D

[Frost]

If you bank on a psychopath then you won't be disappointed

Yep we should all learn to chi sao to beat the psychopaths and not this grappling rubbish :):eek:

[Lucas]

I agree that anyone can become complacent in such areas. But my money would be on the guy that spends a lot of time on the ground and is comfortable in those positions more so than the guy that thinks he's going to eye gouge and fish hook his way out of them.

thats not the point. the point is that when you are training you should not completely dismiss and or ignore these vulnerabilities in the human form. i'd put my money on the guy with the training over the guy with no training that wants to do these types of things in most all cases.

HOWEVER if the training and conditioning are equal, i'd put my money on the guy willing to fight with this kinds of dirty. he will have an advantage if all things else are relatively equal.

people have this mis guided thought that people who will fight dirty like this are all untrained.

[Wayfaring]

Why clinch unless you have to?

Geez I don't know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP6fUrqbBTA

The 1990's are calling again.

[Dragonzbane76]

thats not the point. the point is that when you are training you should not completely dismiss and or ignore these vulnerabilities in the human form. i'd put my money on the guy with the training over the guy with no training that wants to do these types of things in most all cases.

HOWEVER if the training and conditioning are equal, i'd put my money on the guy willing to fight with this kinds of dirty. he will have an advantage if all things else are relatively equal.

people have this mis guided thought that people who will fight dirty like this are all untrained.

agree. Like I said anything can happen in a fight. I thought we were discussing the person whom wants to gouge, fish hook, eye poke his way out of someone that is trained on the ground. in equal terms of stren., experience, etc. yes the person willing to go the furthest will probably win, but then their are many other deadly variables to consider besides a bite or eye poke if we are talking totality.

[Lucas]

agree. Like I said anything can happen in a fight. I thought we were discussing the person whom wants to gouge, fish hook, eye poke his way out of someone that is trained on the ground. in equal terms of stren., experience, etc. yes the person willing to go the furthest will probably win, but then their are many other deadly variables to consider besides a bite or eye poke if we are talking totality.

totally, like breaking an elbow!

[ketchup]

got the answer from an instructor the other day. When you wrap your arm around their neck, bringing their head next to yours, you push into the side of their head with the side of yours, thereby 'locking' their head into place and not allowing them the freedom of movement to bite.

[Lucas]

ya but then what? you cant keep him there forever. suppose he snakes the free arm on that same side under and over your throat for a fore arm choke? then what will you do? what if he has a knife or a gun or a gaggle of nacho ninjettes? then how do you stop him from biting you?

[YouKnowWho]

You may have more chance to bite into your opponent's leg if he applies armbar on you.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=BJJ+armbar&view=detail&mid=CC0BEF2C16918CBB58A7CC0BEF2C16918CBB58A7&first=0&FORM=NVPFVR

[tc101]

I am taking BJJ at a self defense (as opposed to sport) oriented school-Gracie Jiu jitsu.
It seems to me that when someone is in my guard (if I'm using the term right), when I'm on my back with my legs wrapped around their hips and their head hugged down next to mine with my right arm wrapped around their head and my left hand on their right upper arm, hugging them close, that I am very vulnerable to being bitten in this position in a streetfight- it would be very easy for the guy on top to bite my neck, shoulder, chest, etc..

Any thoughts on this? am I wrong?

Since you are taking bjj classes why don't you ask your instructor to show you how easily your nightmare scenario is to deal with. Do you think in all the years of vale tudo and challenge fights no one ever saw this glaring error but you?

[tc101]

You may have more chance to bite into your opponent's leg if he applies armbar on you.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=BJJ+armbar&view=detail&mid=CC0BEF2C16918CBB58A7CC0BEF2C16918CBB58A7&first=0&FORM=NVPFVR

No. If you are arm barred trying to bite is not going to save you.

[sanjuro_ronin]

If there is one place where the 'sport Vs Street" thing should not raise its head, it is in BJJ.
Why?
Because BJJ uses the exact same stuff for BOTH.
It has been proven and shown over and over that the core principle of BJJ - positional dominance- is the key to survival in and out of the ring.

The Gracie marketing machine aside ( and when speaking of BJJ we MUST always put that aside), the fact is that BJJ and GJJ use the same principles and techniques regardless of sport or street.

The person in better position has the better chance of winning and by better position I mean the position for THEM from which THEY CAN FIGHT WELL.

The base of BJJ is "position before submission", this emphasizes the importance of the key element in BJJ ( and every MA really) - positional dominance.
The next stage is - submission from every position.
This is where the practitoner has developed his game to such a level that ANY position is a position of potential dominance.

Sport BJJ has some issues, yes BUT the majority of successful sport BJJ guys make the transition to MMA pretty well so that means something.

And no, biting and eye poking do not work to end a fight.

[Kellen Bassette]

And no, biting and eye poking do not work to end a fight.

Fingers to the eyes is a distraction to set up a powerful technique, much like groin kick. Can a solid, square groin kick end the fight? Sure, but it should never be counted on for that purpose, when used as intended, it allows an opening for cross, hook, round kick, ect.

Biting, by the very nature of how it must be applied, is a last ditch effort from a severely compromised position. It is not an attack, it is a "hail Mary."

Dirty fighting can be a useful tool to help set up the finish of a fight, but you should never count on these techniques to end the fight on their own. Too many people think they are the magic bullet, ace in the hole, they are much more akin to a jab, a feint, a cross kick, a distraction to land the powerful technique.

[Blacktiger]

If there is one place where the 'sport Vs Street" thing should not raise its head, it is in BJJ.
Why?
Because BJJ uses the exact same stuff for BOTH.
It has been proven and shown over and over that the core principle of BJJ - positional dominance- is the key to survival in and out of the ring.

The Gracie marketing machine aside ( and when speaking of BJJ we MUST always put that aside), the fact is that BJJ and GJJ use the same principles and techniques regardless of sport or street.

The person in better position has the better chance of winning and by better position I mean the position for THEM from which THEY CAN FIGHT WELL.

The base of BJJ is "position before submission", this emphasizes the importance of the key element in BJJ ( and every MA really) - positional dominance.
The next stage is - submission from every position.
This is where the practitoner has developed his game to such a level that ANY position is a position of potential dominance.

Sport BJJ has some issues, yes BUT the majority of successful sport BJJ guys make the transition to MMA pretty well so that means something.

And no, biting and eye poking do not work to end a fight.

Exactly!!!

I have just started training BJJ on a regular basis and love it. Let go of the whole street v sport and just train. I love the mix with my Kung Fu.

I think most comp BJJ guys would eat the majority of the Kung Fu guys for breakfast.

Im just being honest and I love Kung Fu but you got to be honest....If you have zero ground game its over.

Just saying ;)