A history of Kung Fu vs. Muay Thai

[Andreas]

This is interesting to read:

http://members.tripod.com/%7Ecrane69/index6d.htm

Andreas

[brassmonkey]

Obviously the guy who has this site wants to believe what he wants despite the facts. There have been fights in the past where Kung Fu men have defeated Muay Thai guys in challenge matches and vice versa im sure from reading LKFDMC's posts on mixedmartialarts.com, too bad none of that is archived thus I would give specific examples. But there has been even more recent matchups between Chinese Sanda fighters and Muay Thai fighters funny how these results arent on this webpage. Not that it proves one or the other is better, just to be a lil more balanced. On a different note I checked up on 1 of your old threads to see where your coming from I liked this quote from you Andreas "You have to know, the chinese Kung Fu community of San Francisco was terrified by Bruce" LOL!

[Andreas]

dear brassmonkey,

Though it might be strange for your own personal behaviour, I didn't post this to prove anything, but this is just interesting to read.
I know about every fight of the Sanda fighter vs. the Thais as well as the results, even the names of the fighters - a victory which is staged not very high above a draw - no Big deal.
It would be interesting to hear about the qualification of the fighters in the bouts which were mentioned on the site 'mixed martial arts'. It would be interesting to know if some amateur thai boxers were involved or champions from the big stadion.
I don't know what Bruce Lee has to do do with all this stuff, but since you brought this up here, he had more than one time commented something funny about Kung Fu in San Franzisco - his friend and former boxer Leo Fong wanted to study Kung Fu there - Leo Fong: "He was making a comparison in the car one time, using the analogy of sex. He said Gung Fu is like masturbating. He said that boxing is pretty close to getting the real thing and he said Karate was kind of like foreplay. I was laughing like hell when he told me this." Another time Lee told him: "What do you want from all this lousy Kung Fu guys? You already have the ultimate art: Boxing. Add some kicks and you're fine." The Tai Chi man who was appearing on one of BLACK BELTS cover wasn't very successful against James Yimm Lee In Oakland, Jimmy punched him out of his garage. Wong Jack Man was at least a master in serving tea, until he saw Lee again in the restaurant where he worked and was so shocked that he overfloured his cup of tea...I hope you still like to quote me ;-)

Andreas

[This message was edited by Andreas on 11-13-01 at 03:16 AM.]

[KnightSabre]

The latest Sanda v Thai matches are documented in that site.Just keep clicking on the next at the bottom of the screen.The auther is a kung fu practitioner.

"You're Good Kid Real Good,But As Long As I'm Arround You'll Always Be Second Best See".

[Sharky]

been here done this

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[brassmonkey]

"a victory which is staged not very high above a draw - no Big deal."

How do you figure? Were the Muay Thai fighters not chosen from 1 of Muay Thai's main Associations? Was there not 1 Chinese, 1 Thai and 1 neutral country's judge?

"I don't know what Bruce Lee has to do do with all this stuff, but since you brought this up here, he had more than one time commented something funny about Kung Fu in San Franzisco - his friend and former boxer Leo Fong wanted to study Kung Fu there - Leo Fong: "He was making a comparison in the car one time, using the analogy of sex. He said Gung Fu is like masturbating. He said that boxing is pretty close to getting the real thing and he said Karate was kind of like foreplay. I was laughing like hell when he told me this." Another time Lee told him: "What do you want from all this lousy Kung Fu guys? You already have the ultimate art: Boxing. Add some kicks and you're fine." "

If you wanna quote someone who was far from the best of his generation go ahead. Don't get me wrong I think Bruce was ok, seemed pretty quick and probably ahead of his time in modern training methods.

"Wong Jack Man was at least a master in serving tea, until he saw Lee again in the restaurant where he worked and was so shocked that he overfloured his cup of tea...I hope you still like to quote me ;-)""

Don't quite get what you mean by this but if I'm not mistaken but the movie his wife authorized showed him in the hospital after this fight, no? Maybe he knew something more then tea servering.

[Andreas]

Dear Brassmonkey,

Neither Lee was far behind the bests of his generation but pretty among of them, nor is much of the movie "Dragon - The Bruce Lee story" true. If you have doubts about these two facts you should speak with Bruce Lee's early student Jesse Glover who met thousands of martial artists of various styles since his entrance into martial arts in the 50s. Another example: Some people spoke about Gin Foon Mark in comparison to Bruce Lee here on this forum in the past. Steve Johnson, a Karate player from the East Coast have met and learned from both men. It could be interesting for you to listen what he has to say. ;-)

"Dragon - the Bruce Lee story":

Though Bruce Lee's life story is the basis very much of the movie is just fictional. You really thought he was taken into hospital after the WJM fight? If you really believe that you stay far far behind any serious Bruce Lee-critique and better stop talking about a dead man until you have done a little more homework.

I didn't say that the Thais won the contest, but they didn't lose as devastating as it was vice versa in the past.

Andreas

[Crimson Phoenix]

Am I the only one who puked at some moments here?
Am I the only one to use my elbows and knees in gong fu?
Gong fu has rigid stances? Well, I'm sorry but for the savate player that I once have been, Thai boxing is the most rigid boxing you can encounter...
I agree that we always need rough contact sparring, but why claiming that it is not part of gong fu? I'm sorry but my gong fu involves contact...it's just up to you to go for it and do it as hard as the thais...
I'm not questionning Thai boxing, it is an art I have the utmost respect for...but frankly, reading this like "thai boxing is the ultimate art" or "that is why gong fu will never win against thai boxing" shi@t makes me go :rolleyes:

[Andreas]

Dear Crimson Phoenix,

You are my man...good to hear the opposite site from a serious poster ;-)

Yours,
Andreas

[Wongsifu]

thats nice, how interestign now fu(k off

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[Andreas]

Uh, I think you don't like what I write Paper Wong ;)

Andreas

[Xebsball]

Obviously, that guy from the site loves Muay Thai altough he trains Baji Quan.

What does your love for Bruce Lee have do this anyway? You dont like tradicional kung fu?
If that's it then get the **** out, this a kung fu forum. There is a Jkd place if you like.

-------------------------
"I AM EFFECTIVNESS"

[Wongsifu]

no its not i dont like what you write its just ve seen those pictures in 5 different sites ages ago and the underlining fine print has been changed each time , in actual fact on of those picutres shows the match that took place where the chinese guy won, in the other post it shows pictures of a karate guy saying its a kung fu guy and vice versa , this is bad propaganda and stupidity.

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[gfhegel21]

What the hell is up with you people bagging on that site? That web page, although it expresses a lot of admiration for Muay Thai, is PRO-Chinese martial arts. It describes a long series of fights in great detail in which the Chinese practitioners continued to hone and perfect the strengths of their style, continuously improving. He describes how it dominated karate, tae kwon do, American kickboxing, etc., but had greater difficulties with Muay Thai, but eventually was able to contend with it on at least equal, if not better than even, terms.

You guys so defensive about people saying bad things about kung fu ought to at least take the blinders off long enough to read a page by someone who is on the same side as you.

[Crimson Phoenix]

It is not a matter of sides, I will agree with an "opponent" if he says intelligent and will disagree with someone "on my side" if he says stupid things, period...
I strongly disagree with some stuffs he says, no less, no more...

[PaleDragon]

of course his iron palm training didnt help him against the thai fighter...they made him wear boxing gloves. thai boxing's great but there's no big puffy gloves to cover your face in a real fight.

[Andreas]

Xebsball,

Easy, this forum also critizes JKD and its opponents, so please don't wonder when it turns back...

No, I really like Gung Fu, recently I watched a CD-Rom on which a Baji man executed a form, it was lasting about 45 minutes and beautiful to watch.

Yours,
Andreas

[Jaguar Wong]

Wongsifu, I know the picture you're talking about, and if you read the caption underneath, it says that the kung fu guy won (by points). I didn't see the mixing up of the karate/kung fu guy you were refering to, though.

I know the guy studies Baji, but he's also a big fan of Muay Thai, and their training/conditioning methods. He's all for incorporating some aspects to make his Baji better. He's not out to badmouth Kung Fu.

I personally feel his site is out there to raise the little hairs on the back of TCMA guys so that they'll actually take the training seriously, and as he puts it "resurrect the down trodden honor of Kung Fu". He's got an open-minded view about the strengths of Muay Thai, but he's not saying drop Kung Fu, and learn Thai boxing. He's pointing out the fact that the training that the Kung Fu guys did wasn't equipped to deal with the barrage of roundhouse kicks, or the knees to the body in the clinch. His remedy is to use more realistic sparring drills, and of course, train with a much higher intensity.

Jaguar Wong

"If you learn to balance a tack hammer on your head
then you learn to head up a balanced attack!"
- The Sphinx

[DragonzRage]

"He was making a comparison in the car one time, using the analogy of sex. He said Gung Fu is like masturbating. He said that boxing is pretty close to getting the real thing and he said Karate was kind of like foreplay. I was laughing like hell when he told me this."

LOL!!! I'm not saying that I really agree or disagree with this, but you gotta admit it sounded pretty **** funny :D

"The UFC spawned a new breed of "mixed martial artists." World-class wrestlers learned to kickbox. Champion kickboxers learned to grapple. (The karate experts learned to stay home.)"

[Wongsifu]

jaguar its on another site , theres many of these sites not mirrors and they have the captions changed. I didnt see this particular page i just let the pics load and thought eeeeoooow not again.

Crimson phoenix that is exactly what i think , 1!!!! i love conversations with guys who are martial art senthusiast wether mma or taekwon do . But i cant stand people who dont know just stating what other people state, like mma is the best or kung fu is the best ...
Blah I agree 100% with your statement.

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo