Liniments for sore joints?

[Kymus]

Hey folks.. so I've been practicing on a regular basis lately since it's nice out and for the first time in 5 yeas I actually have somewhere to practice.

Yeah, my knees aren't always thrilled. Not sure of the exact problem (I'm 33, in good health, average weight, life long non-smoker/drinker, eat well).

I read through A Tooth From the Tiger's Mouth and that seems to deal with more serious injuries. I don't believe that Dit Da Jow or Wood Lock oil are exactly what I want, either. My knowledge of topical oinments is limited to just those two.

Ideally, I'm more interested in something that will soothe the joint rather than a topical analgesic. I'm also prmarily interested in Chinese liniments, but all suggestions are welcome.

[Lucas]

may not be what you are looking for but I always have some zheng gu shui around, i have some joint pains i deal with and it helps me out. zheng gu shui is easy to find, pretty much any herb store will have it in stock.

zheng gu shui wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_Gu_Shui)

http://massagecupping.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/ZhengGuShui.jpg

here is some pretty good hardcore thai boxing liniment ive always liked too. pretty standard stuff though. you can google 'thai liniment' and it will be like all of the image results.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UCTVWTwExJs/Tej6qbnYHII/AAAAAAAAABQ/SOMekLmkesQ/s1600/muay+liniment+1.JPG

[Kymus]

Thanks for the help, Lucas!

I'll check these out!

[herb ox]

Kymus - beyond the external application of a liniment, you may wish to consider supplementing your training with an herbal formula. In TCM achy knees are often a sign of "Kidney Deficiency". Many martial artists suffer from Kidney Deficiency from years of hard training, which burns the moisture (Yin) and the warmth (Yang) of the Kidney.

While your deficiency may be mild at this point, aching knees are an early warning sign that should be heeded.

The best way is to get a consultation from a qualified Chinese herbalist but you can experiment a bit on your own.

Gou Qi Zi, aka "Goji berries" are highly regarded for their Kidney and Liver strengthening properties.

Walnuts also strongly nourish the Kidneys as well.

I often will turn to Liu Wei Di Huang Wan formula (aka 6 flavor rhemannia teapills) to gently tonify the kidneys and it fixes my low back and knee aches in a couple of days.

As always, consult a knowledgeable practitioner as everyone has a different presentation and the formula should be modified accordingly.

Be Well,

Herb Ox

[Kymus]

Thanks for the input, Herb Ox!

Hair loss is also related to the kidney, correct? Cause uhh.. up top it's a thin forest these days :D;)

I'm (slowly) reading through The Web That Has No Weaver right now, so hopefully in time I'll get to understand particular signs of excess and deficiency better.

Unemployed, and the local acupuncturist is very expensive (she does amazing work though; money well spent), so visits to a professional are saved for emergencies only :o

If the problem persists, even with the Zheng Gu Shui, I'll look in to the teapills you mentioned!

It may be worthwhile to note that I do have low arches in my feet, which can affect my knees, though when I train, I wear Vibram Five Fingers which support my arches fantastically. I've also been training more in the grass to try to minimize impact (for lack of a better string of adjectives).

[GeneChing]

First Chinese herbal cure given official approval for the UK: Plant nicknamed 'pig pungent weed' renowned for its treatment of aches and pains (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2974895/First-Chinese-herbal-cure-given-official-approval-UK-Plant-nicknamed-pig-pungent-weed-renowned-treatment-aches-pains.html)
Drug containing ‘pig pungent weed’ has just been licensed
Sigesbeckia is the active ingredient in the pain relief tablets
The weed is renowned for its ability to treat aches and pains
By JENNY HOPE MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT FOR THE DAILY MAIL

PUBLISHED: 19:05 EST, 1 March 2015 | UPDATED: 04:44 EST, 2 March 2015


A herbal treatment nicknamed ‘pig pungent weed’ has become the first traditional Chinese medicine to be approved for use in the UK.

The plant Sigesbeckia, which has an unpleasant smell, is renowned for its ability to treat aches and pains – including those caused by arthritis.

It is the active ingredient in Phynova Joint and Muscle Relief Tablets, which have just been licensed by drug safety watchdog the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/01/2636224500000578-0-image-a-23_1425250959979.jpg
Healing power: Sigesbeckia is the active ingredient in a new drug which have just been licensed by safety watchdog the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency

The tablets are expected to go on sale online within the next month.

Many herbal products have vanished from sale in recent years after a 2004 EU directive banned any medicines that were not licensed from being sold.

The directive also made it more difficult for medicines to get a licence as it demanded they had to have been in use for 30 years, of which at least 15 years had to be in the EU.

Some Western herbal medicines have managed to gain licences in a process costing thousands of pounds to verify their ingredients. But the Phynova tablets are the first traditional Chinese medicine to be approved.

Robert Miller, chief executive of Oxford-based Phynova, said he was ‘extremely proud’, adding: ‘This has come from years of working with our Chinese colleagues.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/01/052BEFE4000005DC-0-image-a-24_1425250962825.jpg
Helping weed: Sigesbeckia is renowned for its ability to treat aches and pains caused by arthritis

‘Britain can now benefit from having access to high quality, regulated Chinese medicines.’

He also said that the company is planning to apply for a licence for a second traditional Chinese medicine, a cold and flu remedy.

Dr Chris Etheridge, a medical herbalist and adviser to Potter’s Herbals, celebrated the ‘good news’, adding that Sigesbeckia, which is not commonly used in the West, ‘offers an alternative to those who prefer not to take non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs for muscle and joint pain’.

But Michael McIntyre, chairman of the European Herbal and Traditional Medicine Practitioners Association, warned that the new product demonstrates the difficulties the EU rules created for supplying herbal products safely to the public.

He said it is ‘almost impossible to satisfy the licensing conditions’.

He added that some people have therefore turned to the internet to buy unlicensed products, but this means they have ‘no idea whether they are safe or effective’.

According to figures from market researchers Ipsos MORI, at least six million Britons have consulted a Western or traditional Chinese herbal practitioner in the last two years.

Herba Siegesbeckiae = Xi Xian Cao (希莶草)

[Mor Sao]

I have used this herb in Dit Da Jow for years.

[herb ox]

The above article posted by GeneChing makes logical sense. Chinese medicine uses Xi Xian Cao for treating "Bi pain" - aka pain due to the obstruction of Qi, typically blocked by cold, dampness or injury. In the case of Xi Xian Cao, however, it would appear to be better utilized for pain that is due to inflammation - something we might refer to as "Hot Bi pain". This is characterized by swelling, redness and often heat that can be felt when a hand is placed over the area.

Xi Xian Cao is bitter and cold by nature and enters the Kidney and Liver channels. This is of particular relevance as the Kidneys related to bone and the Liver to tendon and ligament tissue, all of which are affected in the case of arthritis. Its action is to dispel wind and dampness, clear heat and eliminate toxins. Pharmacological studies have also found this substance to reduce inflammation in lab rats, lower blood pressure, suppress the immune system (which may actually be a good thing as many cases of arthritis are due to an overactive immune system) and have antibiotic effects1.

Unprocessed or juiced, this herb may induce vomiting, which is why it is usually steamed with rice wine or other grain based liquor.

Finally, this substance should only be used with extreme caution in pregnant women and young children.

Peace out,

Herb ox :D

[1] Chen & Chen, 2001; Chinese Medical Herbology and Pharamacology; Art of Medicine Press, City of Industry, CA

[boxerbilly]

Ive had great success with Turmeric powder. You can buy it in pills or go down the international isle in your local store and buy it in a bag for less than the pills. I just mix some with warm water. It mixes poorly. And swallow. Its kind of tasteless but it might take a few times to loose the gag factor. Don't get it on cloths. This is the stuff that colors mustard yellow.

It works and has other health benefits as well. I know, external rub but Ive never had great success with those. Barring that, beg for some Vicodin from the doc if it is really bad. Stay away from the new super aspirins. I prefer old medicine when ever possible.

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1910028,00.html

[herb ox]

Turmeric is some pretty awesome stuff! Many folks with arthritis find great benefit from taking it regularly in sizable amounts.

That being said I found the best way (other than taking capsules) is to mix a half tablespoon dried/powdered turmeric in hot milk - it dissolves pretty well like this, and when I add a splash of maple syrup it is probably my favorite dessert / late night sweet treat. I found a 2 lb bottle of it for about $10 at a Thai market near my work, and it is incredibly fragrant and fresh.

Curcumin is one of the active compounds in turmeric, and may be largely responsible for its potent anti-inflammatory effects, as recent research has demonstrated (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=turmeric). However, the herbal sages of ancient China knew the effects of Jiang Huang (姜黄) aka "ginger yellow" since around the time of the founding of Shaolin Temple, as it is mentioned in the Xin Xu Ben Cao authored by Su Jing in the year AD 657 (yeah I know Shaolin started around 200 years earlier but hey... at this point it's close enough don't ya think?:p) . It was noted then for its ability to move Qi and blood, and to open the channels and collaterals to relieve pain. It is featured prominently in the formula Juan Bi Tang, for treating pain in the upper extremities.

I have a small piece of fresh turmeric root rooting in a glass of water on my kitchen windowsill.

I'd avoid rubbing it directly on the skin as it will stain you bright yellow without the fun of actually having jaundice :p

peace

herb ox

[GeneChing]

I took it in pill form. The amount of time it would take me make my own capsules just isn't worth it for me. Time is money. Or at least, time better sent enjoy a beer. ;) The milk idea is interesting but I'm lactose intolerant. Pills are just easier. Take a pill!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ghh5yXlEaw