Name of this "technique" please!

[HmorenoM]

Hi guys, well, i was wondering how this "technique" (from chum kiu form) was named because i've seen some names around like "ding sau / piercing hand", te guy in the images names it "chuen kiu / piercing arm" but i don't know if it's really correct

1st movement
http://www.awcaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/forms_ck19.png

2nd movement
http://www.awcaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/forms_ck20.png

[Vajramusti]

Hi guys, well, i was wondering how this "technique" (from chum kiu form) was named because i've seen some names around like "ding sau / piercing hand", te guy in the images names it "chuen kiu / piercing arm" but i don't know if it's really correct

1st movement
http://www.awcaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/forms_ck19.png

2nd movement
http://www.awcaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/forms_ck20.png
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Without quibbling on the details of the motion-you can call it biu jong sao.

[HmorenoM]

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Without quibbling on the details of the motion-you can call it biu jong sao.

Like "Darting palm hand" or something like that? :confused:

[YouKnowWho]

In the Zimen system, it's called "乱抽麻(Luan Chou Ma) - pull the thread heads". It can be used one palm after another with the back of your palms almost touching. You can use it to attack through a very small space. It's commonly used in the southern CMA system (not commonly used in the nothern CMA system). You can use it to get very fast striking speed. But how much power that you can generate out of it (on your fingers tip), that will be a different issue.

[Vajramusti]

Like "Darting palm hand" or something like that? :confused:
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The forms are full of concept based motions...the "techniques'are derived from them contextually.
The biu jong sao is developed with firing both hands- but in application can be biu jong sao with one hand while you can coordinate with the other. If you do good chum kiu you can have plenty of power.

You tube is quite limited in showing details of wing chun motions IMO.

[duende]

Joy is correct.

Biu Jong Sau - forward structure hand

Can be combine with sinking energy to transition in to chum Sau.

[JPinAZ]

I agree with Joy and Duende.

In an attempt to bring a topic back to the actual discussion of WC, can anyone share their ideas on the application of this technique? Also, any supporting concepts/principles that may apply for a given scenario where this would be used (single hand, or double hand like in the form)?

[lance]

Hi guys, well, i was wondering how this "technique" (from chum kiu form) was named because i've seen some names around like "ding sau / piercing hand", te guy in the images names it "chuen kiu / piercing arm" but i don't know if it's really correct

1st movement
http://www.awcaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/forms_ck19.pngHmorenoM , okay I ' ll share my own version about this technique with you the 1st move is basically chopping down or slicing down , what this technique does is that for example your opponent throws a low punch to your stomach area with his right hand you can use your left hand to slice down or chop down into his attacking hand , and you can apply any strike with your other hand .

2nd movement
http://www.awcaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/forms_ck20.png The 2nd move where both hands dart out , example the opponent throws a punch to your face area with his right hand , you can use the 2nd move to block that punch , and as you block that punch with your right darting out hand , you can change the darting out hand into a right slicing down hand or chopping down hand to trap the opponents' right hand and you can use your left backfist punch to the opponents' face since it's an ideal technique for this situation , if the opponent does ' nt block your right backfist strike to his face , then you ' ll have a clear strike . But if the opponent happens to block your left backfist strike , you can turn your left backfist strike into a left downward pak sao to pin the opponents left hand against his right hand creating a double hand trapping technique against your opponent . As you trap your opponents' both hands you can use whatever strikes you want against your opponent .

In one of Sifu Wong Shun Leungs' instructional DVD he used the slicing down or chopping down technique to block a wide angle backfist strike comming to his face area , the minute where sifu wong blocked that backfist strike , he trapped that right backfist with his left pak sao hand and used a right vertical fist strike to the assistants' head area .

HmorenoM , I also noticed the uniform you ' re wearing in the pictures you provided along with your topic post . are you a student or an instructor , or an assistant instructor ? Just out of curiosity , that ' s all . In wing chun as long as you know the wing chun techniques in the 3 wing chun forms , you can fight effectively .


Lance

[YouKnowWho]

can anyone share their ideas on the application of this technique?

This discussion may be in the WC forum, but this technique is used quite commonly in none WC systems. If you use both hands together, it's called "分手(Fen Shou) - separate hands" that you

- separate both your opponent's arms,
- enter in between, and
- do your thing.

[tc101]

This discussion may be in the WC forum, but this technique is used quite commonly in none WC systems. If you use both hands together, it's called "分手(Fen Shou) - separate hands" that you

- separate both your opponent's arms,
- enter in between, and
- do your thing.

The forms in wing chun have multiple examples of single arm movements bong Sao being a good example done with both arms at the same time. This is probably for economy so that we don't need to do it twice and can be done since those actions use the same body mechanics to power them. Biu Jong Sao is one of those movements. Fen Sao is a different movement in the chum kiu form than biu Jong Sao at least how I learned it.