"Monk begs for Rice" in MMA

[RisingCrane]

I will be regularly putting some techniques on my Youtube channel to show functional kung fu. Here is an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T2KDB_Tq3Y&list=UUhcSUTU0SEoKrRKqdDBAozA&index=1

This is just for sharing and discussion- hope you enjoy!

[David Jamieson]

Highly dependent on range!

[Frost]

maybe the title should read for MMA, because i was expecting to see the technique in an actual match lol

Honestly as jamison said the distance is not realistic the kick would be thrown closer and you have a better change fo overhooking the kick as you move sideways as you do moving back and catching it like that it would probably take too long to actually work, and it doenst seem to give you enough control of his leg he can kick out, circle his legs out or at worset post his other leg on your hips and regain guard too easily

[Golden Arms]

I like the idea behind your Youtube channel, but this technique I don't agree with. For starters, anyone who is worth their salt when it comes to fighting in a format that uses kicks and punches is going to use the front kick to set up the front hand if they see your face is not covered when you defend the kick. As soon as I saw that your hands dropped to deal with the front kick I would begin to shut down that game, and I know I am not the only one out there that understands this concept.

[RisingCrane]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.
I wondered -after what Golden Arms said, how muay thai teaches to catch a front kick. I found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA2BhNIudeg
exactly the same method- one under, one over.
I can find many examples of this 'bread and butter' catch and takedown being used successfully in Sanda competition, I didn't think it was a controversial technique;)
All I did when we started competing MMA was to keep hold of the leg because it makes guard passing easier. If you see pro MMA- they will try to grab a leg of the downed opponent in order to pass, again- nothing controversial. All I did was to combine the two concepts and to teach them from the beginning as an MMA skill- rather than having a takedown, then try to pass as two distinct phases of the fight.
Actually, one of my students applied this exact technique in 'real time' in the cage last night- unfortunately, I wasn't filming at the time, so you can believe me or not:p

[Miqi]

Highly dependent on range!

What isn't?

Thanks Rising Crane - that's precisely the kind of approach to innovating, sharing and critique that really helps develop technical knowledge. My old coach - who was a san da fighter in China - used to do this kind of thing all the time. This isn't my coach - but it's one variation that he used to do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE03YfTVgAg

[Golden Arms]

I am not saying it doesnt work, I have actually used a variant of it myself in San Da/San Shou/Kou Shu. What I am saying is that I no longer use it because of my experiences with how it can be countered. If you do end up catching the leg it is a great technique, but if you don't the price for failure is too high for my taste.

[Miqi]

This video is a pretty good talking point for takedowns in action in san da - lots of variations here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBKJA4-fZbQ

[RisingCrane]

Golden arms- yes, I see your point.

Miqi-thanks for your kind words. Yes, sanshou has some great kick catch takedowns!

My interest is how to develop them into MMA. For example- Cung Li's leg scissors is not useful in MMA, but if you add the inverted heel hook to the technique, you can even submit Anderson Silva:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=267i7rKeECA
So:
Are you guys looking at the sanshou takedowns and working out how to add 'finishing' moves and if not, why not? Which passes/submissions/G&P are most useful from which takedowns? We should be experimenting with these in our sparring sessions and gradually evolving the art by sharing/exchange so that kung fu becomes relevant and functional.

[lkfmdc]

A: I am going to do this to you
B: but when you do, I will counter with this
A: but I can reverse your counter with this
B: but then I will do THIS!

This is the talk of those who are always in "theory"
Reality is different than theory

Exactly this technique already exists and is used in Muay Thai
Sometimes it works, sometimes it is countered, but it is still practiced and seen

I like your idea of context, to throw away and create distance or to draw in and close the distance, these are the important concepts in all fighting

Good work, keep it up

[YouKnowWho]

Good clip. Excellent job. If I use that technique, I would move my body back and "yield" a bit more in case the power is too much to handle.


A: I am going to do this to you
B: but when you do, I will counter with this
A: but I can reverse your counter with this
B: but then I will do THIS!

This is why you may have to go 2 or 3 levels deep to fully explain a technique.

I do A;
If you respond with B Then I'll do A1;
Else If you respond with C Then I'll do A2;
Else If ...

Your technique A should not be just a single technique but to set up for many techniques.

There are some price that you have to pay in order to catch your opponent's kick. But the reward is great (If you no longer have to fight him stand up). It's easier to catch a roundhouse kick than to catch a side kick, It's also easier to catch a sider kick than to catch a front kick. This is why the front kick is the saftest to deliever (besides foot sweep) but the hardest to catch.

[TenTigers]

I think we all learned from grappling/bjj,* that ALL techniques have a counter.
That does not negate their value,
it's just the reality of fighting.









*
(yeah, yeah, I know, not just in grappling. ALL techniques have a counter.)

[YouKnowWho]

ALL techniques have a counter.

Sometime it's too late to counter. If you lift your opponent off the ground and above your shoulder, there isn't much that he can counter you.

http://imageshack.us/a/img208/2400/singleleg.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img838/2355/innerblock.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img849/1605/embrace1.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img824/764/scarry.jpg

[RisingCrane]

LKFMDC, thanks for the encouragement.
I agree- when I teach a move in my kid's class they say "What if he does a somersault?", "what if he has a gun?" etc. etc.
When I teach the technique in my fighter's class they are asking "How can I fit this into my game?"
Very different mentality when people spar/practise realistically ;)

Youknowwho- yes, sir you have a deep understanding of martial art! The whole art is dealing with the opponent's reaction to your move and having a counter ready to his counter.

TenTigers- If there was a technique that did not have a counter, I would just practise that technique and no other :D

[Dragonzbane76]

youknowwho....true...they have gained your center of gravity at that point....but the key to that is control from the clinch before that happens. :)

my thoughts on technique....people always have the if they do this then I will do this...like ross stated its a lot different in context. (actual comp/fight) example...have you ever tried to counter a person with a good jab? someone that has used it and perfected it? same kind of thing, yes it can be countered yes its plausible, in context its a different animal. when someone is trying to take your head off with 100%. I'm not downing the technique and I have actual done it in sparring and not saying that it can't be done. I try to think of things in % to me there are to many dangers involved with trying to catch a kick coming full force. just my opinion.

[pazman]

Rising Crane, thanks for the clip.

I'm surprised more gongfu people don't know this technique, it's standard in any sanda gym I've visited.

This is a "matching" technique that is often taught alongside the first:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE03YfTVgAg

They are not exactly bread and butter techniques for most people but they're good for getting people used to defending side kicks.

[Kellen Bassette]

I try to think of things in % to me there are to many dangers involved with trying to catch a kick coming full force. just my opinion.

I feel the high/low percentage thing is a bit more subjective than people tend to admit. Side kick is a very high percentage technique for me. I've spent years training it and love to use it. This is considered lower percentage by many people. Single leg is low percentage for me, I'm still not comfortable with it, I have a friend who uses it all the time, high percentage for him.

Guess what I'm getting at is some things are only low percentage because we don't train them often. Sure there a jab is always going to be more likely to land than a butterfly kick...but you get the point...

[Eric Olson]

Used this move to successfully catch sidekicks and throw the opponent backwards in a live continuous sparring match (not full contact, but the kicks had some english on them.)

[YouKnowWho]

there are to many dangers involved with trying to catch a kick coming full force.

This is why even if your arms may still be in the kicking range (in order to catch that kick), your body should move outside of the kicking range. If you can move your body to be ouside of your opponent's striking path, whether you can block that strike or not won't put youself in dangerous situation.

[Golden Arms]

Why not catch, scoop or parry the leg off with one hand while covering the rest of the body with the other? If the foot is caught, THEN use the 2nd hand to aid and go for the takedown from there.

Youknowwho already posted that of the various kicks, the front kick is the hardest to catch. That should be a clue that chasing it with both hands might work but there are higher percentage methods that may be safer if the opponent has a high skill level with the kick. If you are counting on fighting a less skilled opponent, well then there are a lot of things that work great, but that has never been who I trained to face.

[YouKnowWho]

parry the leg off with one hand ...

I agree that to parry is better method. You don't need to use both hands to get your opponent's leg. When your opponent kicks you, his leading hand should also be our concern. You should leave one hand to deal with his leading leg, and another hand to deal with his leading arm. Since front kick can make your opponent's both hands to reach you, you may have to deal with both of his hands, it's much more dangerous.

It's just like "single leg". You don't need to use both hands to grab on your opponent's leading leg. If you use one hand to push your opponent's shoulder, his leading leg will come off the ground and move into your hand. If you can use one hand to "parry" your opponent's kicking leg, use another hand to push your opponent's leading arm, and use it to jam his back arm, you will have a successful entering.

The "parry" method may be different from what OP intended to discuss here. It's like wrestler's single leg (both hands get the leg) vs. TCMA guy's single leg (one hand get the leg and one hand push the shoulder). There are different approaches.

[Shaolindynasty]

I use this leg catch alot. It works well. As far as being open when using it.... you are open the entire time you fight in some way

[Ben Gash]

This is a pretty bread and butter San Shou catch (indeed, it's even in Cung Le's book) . The key is that there is no "chasing with both hands". You CATCH the kick with both hands, you DEFEND the kick with your feet. It's very difficult to defend a decent linear kick with your arms, first line of defence should always be range control (as with linear punches). Once the kick has failed to reach you then it's relatively straightforward to catch it with both hands.

[Syn7]

If you respond with B Then I'll do A1;
Else If you respond with C Then I'll do A2;
Else If ...

You write code?



I like to side step and over hook. Then you walk in on em and take side control from the sweep pretty easily. It's worked pretty well for me. I've only done it with front and round kicks really. I usually just evade the side kicks and try to counter with my hands or a roundhouse.

[YouKnowWho]

You write code?
For the past 30 years. The right mouse button click to display a menu is my patent.

[Syn7]

For the past 30 years. The right mouse button click to display a menu is my patent.

No ****, huh? Cool.

[Lucas]

i did this with my qi.

Note: this is just a random patent i selected. im too lazy to look for the one hes referring to

http://www.google.com/patents/US5530796

[YouKnowWho]

i did this with my qi.

Note: this is just a random patent i selected. im too lazy to look for the one hes referring to

http://www.google.com/patents/US5530796

Thanks! Those are my good old days. Here is the 8/11/1987 right mouse button click pattern US4686522A.

http://www.google.com/patents/US4686522

Just allow me to brag a bit more (When you have reached to my age, you will have nothing left but bragging). :D

http://imageshack.us/a/img12/5328/inventbk.jpg

[Lucas]

wow that's pretty cool. haha i think you have more left than just bragging still.

[Kellen Bassette]

If I patented something that everyone in the modern world was using I'd bring it up in polite conversation too...."Got you all right clicking like drones!" "Yes, that's it, pull that menu up like good little minions!"

[SoCo KungFu]

Thanks! Those are my good old days. Here is the 8/11/1987 right mouse button click pattern US4686522A.

http://www.google.com/patents/US4686522

Just allow me to brag a bit more (When you have reached to my age, you will have nothing left but bragging). :D

http://imageshack.us/a/img12/5328/inventbk.jpg

Wait wait wait. So you're the reason I can make those little porn movie boxes fullscreen? FULLLLLSCRREEEENNNN
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You're my hero.

[-N-]

For the past 30 years. The right mouse button click to display a menu is my patent.

YKW stole the concept from TCMA.

When the left side is occupied, use the right side to switch technique.

:D

[MightyB]

Thanks! Those are my good old days. Here is the 8/11/1987 right mouse button click pattern US4686522A.

http://www.google.com/patents/US4686522

Just allow me to brag a bit more (When you have reached to my age, you will have nothing left but bragging). :D

http://imageshack.us/a/img12/5328/inventbk.jpg

As a multimedia professional, you sir, are my hero.

[Eric Olson]

This is a pretty bread and butter San Shou catch (indeed, it's even in Cung Le's book) . The key is that there is no "chasing with both hands". You CATCH the kick with both hands, you DEFEND the kick with your feet. It's very difficult to defend a decent linear kick with your arms, first line of defence should always be range control (as with linear punches). Once the kick has failed to reach you then it's relatively straightforward to catch it with both hands.

Even if it does reach you, just iron shirt that sh!t and you still get the catch when they try to retract the leg.