What is the best for self defense?

[KungFubar]

My midlife crisis is kicking in (no pun intended) and I want to learn self defense what is the best program? Thanks.

[YouKnowWho]

Try to manage to land your fist on your opponent's face.

[tc101]

My midlife crisis is kicking in (no pun intended) and I want to learn self defense what is the best program? Thanks.

Buy a gun, learn to use it. That is the best program for self defense.

[Kymus]

It's not an easy question to answer. Especially if you don't have prior training experience.

Assuming you're a newbie, look for stuff that is primarily hands-on. Muay Thai, Japanese Jujutsu, San Da, Shuai Jiao, Jeet Kune Do.

Escrima/Kali is awesome as well. Lots of hands-on weapons work, primarly with stick and knife.

Traditional Kung Fu is great too, but there is debate on its efficacy due to poor training practices these days (little hands-on time, imo).

Post what piques your interest and maybe some folks around here will be able to give you more information about that school.

[KungFubar]

It's not an easy question to answer. Especially if you don't have prior training experience.

Assuming you're a newbie, look for stuff that is primarily hands-on. Muay Thai, Japanese Jujutsu, San Da, Shuai Jiao, Jeet Kune Do.

Escrima/Kali is awesome as well. Lots of hands-on weapons work, primarly with stick and knife.

Traditional Kung Fu is great too, but there is debate on its efficacy due to poor training practices these days (little hands-on time, imo).

Post what piques your interest and maybe some folks around here will be able to give you more information about that school.

Thank you Kymus. Pique my interest well I always liked what I saw of Chinese Kung Fu but when I was young (15 - 21) there was no place in my area that I could find. So I just did bodybuilding instead and its been great for health, and feeling/ looking good, body awareness, mind body etc. Ive done that ever since and no regrets.

Lately when I started revisiting it, Im reading now is that its no good for self defense and when I go look on youtube for videos or anywhere not a single actual kung fu fight can be found except students holding there arm out.

Ive seen some vids that say kung fu and then when you click on them its just two guys swinging at each other or kickboxing, basic boxer stances shifting left to right dancing around etc. Some where there must be some vids of some street fight that went down between kung fu people.

Anyway, so thats why I checked out "KungFuMagazine.com" I figure, this is the place where kung fu people hang out.

Then I see the Shaoling guys in their orange robes and the breaking stunts they do, it just seems so gimicky. Not that I could ever even do that and their athletic ability is incredible. It seems fake. Id like to see someone chop a one inch oak board in half with any part of their body in a mythbusters setting. But I digress this is not realated to this post really just threw it in there.

I saw Wing Chun, that looked pretty good, short close in stuff, quick moves walk away fights over. Nothing flowery, seems pretty practical, can practice at home and with others. Then Joe Rogan says its no good and people waste their life on it. I guess he knows a thing or two he never seems to mince words, hes pretty smart and introspective got to give him some respect but he is an ass most of the time from what Ive seen doesnt affect his opinions though imo.

I can put the time in, about 6 hours a week id say, I dont want to get any joint injuries, think ACL tear and $$$. Im older now, joints dont have the elasticity they used to have. Muscle flexibility is good, can work up to splits both ways in 6 weeks or so, used to do it all the time. Joints - ie ligaments, not so much. Strength is very good, body awareness, body control all still good, ROM excellent from using full ROM in lifting. No major injuries ever. Im 6' about 210 at 15% bf. I dont mind pain as long as there is no major injuries. Im used to No pain no gain.

I dont want to carry a gun or have guns, think George Zimmerman. Ill just end up shooting myself or getting in jail for using it improperly, or get shot by someone else thinking Im the agressor. When you are dead you are dead (probably). Regarding that think , If he didnt have the gun I bet he wouldnt have followed the kid to see where he was going? Thats another convo.

"Internal styles" chi and all that. Well when I was 15 it was fun to think we could be superhuman and have all kinds of magic powers like kwai chang caine, even now it seems reasonable when watching kwai chang caine and we all hope there is something more to life than what you see with your eyes. As you get older you surrender to the realization that its fantasy, just make believe. Then 1% of you thinks, well maybe there is some truth to it. But everybody dies so whats the point in investing so much time in it. I supppose it can be argued that if you attain a high level of that you can someone leave your body (OBE) and exist some other way in Oneness with the universe but nobody can say, its a faith thing like every other faith system IMO. I could be wrong, hope I am.

Ive got more to say, but I doubt anyone cares so ill spare you all. If you think of anything that would help me from what Ive written it is appreciated.

[Kymus]

I think the first step is to figure out what's near you. The Wah Lum Temple is in Florida; from what I know, that's a well respected place. Of course, Florida is a isn't a tiny state so.. :D

The Kung Fu guys looking like sloppy kickboxers is a gripe many people have and it is subject to debate. Some feel that if you train properly, your art should show when you fight. Others feel that it's foolhardy to believe that it'll look like anything but kickboxing. You won't find many gems on youtube.

As for the monks, keep in mind that they're most likely part of a demo team. Shaolin isn't what it used to be anymore. Others on here know more about that than I do. But that aside, many Kung Fu styles practice stuff like Iron Fist/Iron Palm to develop more striking power. Grandmaster Pan Qing-Fu is a very famous example of this.

There will always be a debate over the efficacy of Traditional Martial Arts (TMA). Having experience in both the traditional and modern, I think it's more about how you train and how you're taught than the specific art in itself (save for certain McDojo's that teach some really stupid and impractical looking stuff..).

If you really want to do traditional Chinese martial arts (TCMA), considering everything you said, you may want a Southern Chinese style like Wing Chun, Southern Praying Mantis, Hung Gar, etc. etc. You may also like something like Bajiquan. These arts are less on the flowery-looking side. More power, more direct.

But all that doesn't matter much if it's not available near you. Find out what's near you first.

..also, don't take anyone on here too seriously. Think of this place as a bar in the wild west :D

[MightyB]

Buy a sports car, sleep with young women. Then Smoke wee-d and play video games about fighting. Watch Jack Reacher, Taken 1 & 2, and any new James Bond flick, Frost your hair, get an earring and a tattoo.

Then you're set. Crisis averted.

[KungFubar]

I think the first step is to figure out what's near you. The Wah Lum Temple is in Florida; from what I know, that's a well respected place. Of course, Florida is a isn't a tiny state so.. :D

The Kung Fu guys looking like sloppy kickboxers is a gripe many people have and it is subject to debate. Some feel that if you train properly, your art should show when you fight. Others feel that it's foolhardy to believe that it'll look like anything but kickboxing. You won't find many gems on youtube.

As for the monks, keep in mind that they're most likely part of a demo team. Shaolin isn't what it used to be anymore. Others on here know more about that than I do. But that aside, many Kung Fu styles practice stuff like Iron Fist/Iron Palm to develop more striking power. Grandmaster Pan Qing-Fu is a very famous example of this.

There will always be a debate over the efficacy of Traditional Martial Arts (TMA). Having experience in both the traditional and modern, I think it's more about how you train and how you're taught than the specific art in itself (save for certain McDojo's that teach some really stupid and impractical looking stuff..).

If you really want to do traditional Chinese martial arts (TCMA), considering everything you said, you may want a Southern Chinese style like Wing Chun, Southern Praying Mantis, Hung Gar, etc. etc. You may also like something like Bajiquan. These arts are less on the flowery-looking side. More power, more direct.

But all that doesn't matter much if it's not available near you. Find out what's near you first.

..also, don't take anyone on here too seriously. Think of this place as a bar in the wild west :D

tried to pm you I dont think it went through. How long must I be a member here before I can PM?

[Kymus]

nah I got it. I'll get back to you later ;)

[KungFubar]

Buy a sports car, sleep with young women. Then Smoke wee-d and play video games about fighting. Watch Jack Reacher, Taken 1 & 2, and any new James Bond flick, Frost your hair, get an earring and a tattoo.

Then you're set. Crisis averted.


That worked for you?

[Lucas]

imo the answer is any art that actually has a focus on self defense. there's a wide variety of scenarios and situations that must be addressed for an art to be a self defense art, and more than just a fighting art, imo.

[MightyB]

That worked for you?

mostly - but with what you're describing, I don't think you're looking for kung fu or at least what you're looking for will be impossible to find.

Kung Fu's personal, good teachers rarely exist and some get lost between the balance of martial and money.

All legitimate kung fu is good, it's very good - the quality of training varies. And then the teacher is only going to show you so much - the rest is up to you. It's not easy, it's not a quick fix, it's confusing, it's frustrating, it's enlightening. You can train 10yrs and find it doesn't work, then on the 11th it does because you've had a simple perspective change.

Do you have the mental aptitude for that type of commitment?

[MightyB]

When 100 people are training kung fu... 1 person might understand and comprehend enough to apply it. The rest sit around and whine about the teaching process.

[-N-]

When 100 people are training kung fu... 1 person might understand and comprehend enough to apply it. The rest sit around and whine about the teaching process.

So very true.

[wiz cool c]

My midlife crisis is kicking in (no pun intended) and I want to learn self defense what is the best program? Thanks.

you looking for a school and style? ir how to train with the kung fu you are learning now?

[KungFubar]

you looking for a school and style? ir how to train with the kung fu you are learning now?

Ive never learned any martial arts of any sort and have never needed them so far but things are getting so violent now and I have people to protect.

Not looking for a school really more a group is what Im looking for. Im willing to dedicate to an effective self defense system and martial arts group and Im looking for the one that would be best for me. I dont want to waste time and energy on something thats fake, watered down for mass consumtion, recreational, social time etc etc and basically wont work anyway in an actual self defense situation.

I do feel lucky though, kymus said thats the main way to find a good teacher. Im here trying to make some luck I guess.

[wiz cool c]

i have done martial arts for 30 years, several different styles. i would recommend bujinkan budo taijutsu. a traditional japanese martial arts. there is no competitions, no forms,all the techniques are done with a partners,and the main goal of the training is self defense. weapons ,multiple attackers,just about every kind of violent situation you could imagine is covered. so if self defense is your goal,i recommend this system.

[KungFubar]

i have done martial arts for 30 years, several different styles. i would recommend bujinkan budo taijutsu. a traditional japanese martial arts. there is no competitions, no forms,all the techniques are done with a partners,and the main goal of the training is self defense. weapons ,multiple attackers,just about every kind of violent situation you could imagine is covered. so if self defense is your goal,i recommend this system.

Nice thank you Ill research it.

[KungFubar]

Heres the first result I found on the topic.
http://21dragons.com/blog/2011/my-journey-from-the-bujinkan

I take it with a grain of salt but the article pulled me right in and wouldnt let me go until I had read the whole thing.

[wiz cool c]

i stopped training in the bujinkan many years ago as well for several reasons,but not till i reached the level of first degree black belt. and in my opinion it has it's strong points and weak points, like all styles. but for your goals,i think is is a good choice.


for example. i live in china and have for the past 7 years. over a year ago i had reconstructive knee surgery. and had to walk around in a cast for three months. and the same time i had some jealous girl's bf call me and threaten to do me harm. i was a bit nervous,being this girl knew where i lived,and i had never seen this guy before . so you can imagine how unsettling i felt in a cast and looking at every chinese guy like that could be the guy. under those circumstances i resorted to what i learned in the bujinkan. i had a cane with me at all times. and learned how to use a short staff from the bujinkan. i also planned to use a pen to the most vulnerable part on the human body the eyes,if it came down to me being crippled or his sight. so again depends on why you are learning this stuff. if you want to be the badest guy on the beaches of Rio,then not the best choice.


some strong points of bujinkan as a self defense system. they always train with a partner. so you get used to body contact and what it feels like to actually do the moves on a person and not in the air. they concentrate on attacking vital areas of the body,and break as many rules as you can in a real life situation,including strategic rules not just physical. they use weapons from the beginning of one's training. also practiced on a living partner,not in the air. they work on perception drills to heighten one's awareness,which is very useful in real life danger prevention

[Kymus]

Yeah, Bujinkan is a touchy subject, with people on both sides of the debate.

It piques my interest and given the chance (and the time) I'd do it. But right now there are other arts more important to me.

I tried a few free classes in Bujinkan when I was living in NYC. It was cool. Though I don't get the whole no-sparring-only-randori thing.

[lance]

My midlife crisis is kicking in (no pun intended) and I want to learn self defense what is the best program? Thanks.KungFubar , learn martial arts and learn to use a gun and its law , in other words find out what you can and can ' t do in using a gun for self defense .

For self defense , learn a martial art of your choice , but you need find a club or school or a martial arts teacher in your area , so you can learn self defense . If there is a school , club or a sifu teaching Wing Chun , then go for it , but are you really particular in what martial art you learn ? If so , then go and find a club , school , or teacher which teaches the martial art of your choice . Goodluck .



Lance

As for midlife crises how are you dealing with it ? I ' m going through with it now too .

[MightyB]

Heres the first result I found on the topic.
http://21dragons.com/blog/2011/my-journey-from-the-bujinkan

I take it with a grain of salt but the article pulled me right in and wouldnt let me go until I had read the whole thing.

Good article. It shows some of the inherent dangers of entering a martial art and expecting to learn self defense.

IMO there's really no great SD martial art out there. It's all in you and your perspective and hopefully you being able to find a school and instructor that's somewhat in line with your perspective. For "quick" SD... Judo and boxing. That combo is the old military stand by for a reason. Then take a seminar or two in areas that you'd like to explore like Kali or Escrima for knife and stick stuff.

[Stickgrappler]

Hello all:

*bows deeply*

My definition of 'self-defense' is perhaps different than many people's definition.

Ideally, I do not want to resort to physicall skills to defend myself. It would be too late if the situation has progressed (or regressed) to that point. Asking what style/system is the best for self-defense clearly has physical skills in mind IMO.


"The best defense is no be there."
~Mr. Miyagi, The Karate Kid 1

My first line of self-defense is 'not to be there at all'. To that end here are some concepts for your consideration:


1) The Three S's (sometimes known as The Four S's):

avoid STUPID people doing STUPID things at STUPID places (at STUPID times)

If you avoid places where there is a high probability of violence, you would have defended yourself e.g. bars, theaters, subway/train stations past midnight, group of young kids drinking beer at a park, etc.

2) Awareness and Avoidance

One should develop their Environmental Awareness as well as Situational Awareness.

A quick example of EA: You walk down a street where it's bottlenecked in one spot. It's dark and has no streetlamps and it's nighttime. Not saying there are predators in hiding, but why risk it, just avoid it altogether and take a different route.

A quick example of SA: You are short of cash, you want to go to an ATM to withdraw some pocket money. Right in front of the bank are a bunch of young men hanging around. That situation screams potential mugging to me. Even if I'm wrong, and I may be inconvenienced by looking for another ATM, I need not have to put myself into a situation where I would need to defend myself.

Once your Awareness is developed, Avoidance will be easy.

Related to Awareness is the use of what some instructors in the RBSD (Reality-Based Self-Defense field) use called "Color Codes of Awareness" based on Col. Jeff Cooper's Color Codes. Some use four colors, some use five... what matters most is that there are levels for progressive alertness/awareness states. The lowest level usually called 'Code White' - the person in Code White is totally oblivious to their surroundings, they are usually 'task fixated' (as Craig Douglas calls it). The person is so focused on playing a game on their cellphone or texting that they are clueless a Predator has decided to "Interview" (as Peyton Quinn calls it) them.

Next level up is Code Orange, where you are somewhat aware of your surroundings and continually scanning around. Just the mere act of moving your head slowly from side-to-side scanning your environment will be picked up by a Predator and you will be passed over for an 'easier victim.' Predators want it easy, they do not want their victims to put up a fight. Like many military tactics, the Predator will attack your blindside which is anywhere if you are stuck in Code White.

The upper colors/levels progressively are more aware than the previous ones, to the point of "Decision" and "Action."

I would be remiss if I didn't mention Running as an option for Avoidance. If you can Run, by all means take off. Don't stay there.

I can go on but it's getting long. Some of these points if practiced should exponentially improve your ability to defend yourself. More can be said of Verbal De-escalation skills, Weapons, Improvised Weapons, Partner working as a Team, etc.

Hope you need not ever have to get into a situation where you have to resort to physical skills.

Just some rambling thoughts.

Very truly yours in the MA and SD,

~sg

[KungFubar]

I have used these techniques, which to me are common sense. As a result I have never had to use violence against anyone or vice versa. You could say I have a black belt in avoidance.

Having said that, I will also say that I have noticed a sharp increase in stupid people and places that once were not stupid but now are, at times that formerly were not stupid that now are and as a result of this observation it is becoming increasingly clear to me that I need a lawful violent backup plan or just stay inside my house most of the time which I shouldn't have to do. Doing so only enables them and increases their violence toward others

Running is no longer an option as the person I help cannot run. Lawful violence needs to be an option for me, for my good and for the good of society. For a safer society we need more formidable good people out there not less IMO so bullies and punks will think twice before trying to victimize others.

[YouKnowWho]

Sometime it's not your life that you try to save. There is a difference between

- You had a good reason to fight but you didn't.
- You didn't have a good reason to fight but you did.

This is my favor line from the movie "Braveheart".

"Fight and you may die. Run and you will live at least awhile. And dying in your bed many years from now, ..."

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=braveheart+speech&mid=F7247901B7A2355E227BF7247901B7A2355E227B&view=detail&FORM=VIRE1

[Lucas]

Avoidance and awareness are not 100%

Yes, being aware of where you are, where you are going, where you will be, in connection with your surroundings is a very effective tool to stay out of the line of danger so to speak. However there are times when you cannot avoid violence.

Home invasion.
Being attacked as you leave the place of work/business.
Stalking.
Random acts of violence in seemingly safe surroundings, such as public transportation or public places of business.
Being blindside in any area of your life.

From personal experience i can tell you, you will not immediately even be aware you are fighting to defend your life, so being able to handle the shock of sudden unexpected extreme violence can save your life in and of itself.

Technique is the least of your worries in many cases. Being abe to stay relatively calm and make on the spot good decisions is extremely important.

[KungFubar]

Sometime it's not your life that you try to save. There is a difference between

- You had a good reason to fight but you didn't.
- You didn't have a good reason to fight but you did.

This is my favor line from the movie "Braveheart".

"Fight and you may die. Run and you will live at least awhile. And dying in your bed many years from now, ..."

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=braveheart+speech&mid=F7247901B7A2355E227BF7247901B7A2355E227B&view=detail&FORM=VIRE1

Im not getting what you are saying? I mean the sayings are interesting but I dont get your meaning.

[YouKnowWho]

Im not getting what you are saying? I mean the sayings are interesting but I dont get your meaning.

Good reason to fight:

- You try to save your love one's life.
- You try to save a stranger's life.

Bad reason to fight:

- Someone insults you with words.
- Someone punches you with fist.

Here is an example.

- You walk on the street.
- A guy tries to drag a girl into his car.
- The girl screams for help.

You can

- offer help. There will be some risk involved.
- walk away. You may regret everyday for the rest of your life.

[Kymus]

These gentlemen are correct. Sometimes you won't be able to talk your way out of a fight. Yeah, most tough guys will back off when you show them that you're not afraid and not interested, but sometimes the fight comes to you. You could be ambushed or someone else could be in trouble and you have to make a decission on whether or not to get involved.

Part of martial arts is protecting yourself, and part of it is protecteing others.

[Stickgrappler]

I have used these techniques, which to me are common sense. As a result I have never had to use violence against anyone or vice versa. You could say I have a black belt in avoidance.

Having said that, I will also say that I have noticed a sharp increase in stupid people and places that once were not stupid but now are, at times that formerly were not stupid that now are and as a result of this observation it is becoming increasingly clear to me that I need a lawful violent backup plan or just stay inside my house most of the time which I shouldn't have to do. Doing so only enables them and increases their violence toward others

Running is no longer an option as the person I help cannot run. Lawful violence needs to be an option for me, for my good and for the good of society. For a safer society we need more formidable good people out there not less IMO so bullies and punks will think twice before trying to victimize others.

well said!

Firearms, pepper spray, tactical pens, tactical flashlights, whistle, etc. Check your local laws. Train with these tools in ideal conditions and also in less-than-ideal conditions.

[Stickgrappler]

Here is an example.

- You walk on the street.
- A guy tries to drag a girl into his car.
- The girl screams for help.

You can

- offer help. There will be some risk involved.
- walk away. You may regret everyday for the rest of your life.

You don't have to personally involve yourself if you don't want to.

Call 911. Or simply yell out loud that you will be calling the Police. Take down the license plate, take a pic of perp/car, etc.