Juan Carlos Aguilar: Shaolin gym owner arrested for torture and murder

[carona]

Very sad news from Spain.

http://www.thelocal.es/20130603/human-remains-found-in-shaolin-torturers-gym (http://www.thelocal.es/20130603/human-remains-found-in-shaolin-torturers-gym)

Juan Carlos Aguilar, who supposedly was teaching Shaolin in Bilbao has been arrested for torturing a woman who is in a coma right now and human remains have been found inside the gym.
He was already more of a cult leader than a shaolin teacher in my opinion, but this I didn't expect.

[Miqi]

Thoughts and prayers for the victims and their families if this is what it appears to be. Innocent until... and all that.

His Shaolin looks legit, at least, compared to other modern Shaolin monks - but the videos might have possibly been speeded up a bit. Not that that is the important issue here, of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IbmOWZm4Tk

[bawang]

His Shaolin looks legit, at least, compared to other modern Shaolin monks - but the videos might have possibly been speeded up a bit. Not that that is the important issue here, of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IbmOWZm4Tk

never looked legit to me

[GeneChing]

We trained together a little in '95 at Shaolin and hung out a little in the following years.

I am totally shocked. I'm still reeling from TCEC & KFTCD (http://www.tigerclawelite.com/) last weekend too, so I can't really wrap my head around this right now.

[Miqi]

never looked legit to me

He's a so-so contemporary wushu guy - so are most of the Shaolin monks. Much of a muchness. Whether that's better or worse than the old or authentic Shaolin monks - I don't know. My old coach, who trained at Shaolin as a child, said that there were one or two "special" level monks who didn't have much to do with the commercial aspects of the temple. Myself, I don't know - but he's as legit as so-so contemporary wushu gets. But nothing compared to professional contemporary wushu.

[shen ku]

Gene, please tell us based on that video, that he was different when you knew him? I hope the story comes out to be different.

[GeneChing]

I haven't seen him in over a decade. We only crossed paths at Shaolin, which is a surreal place to get to know anyone. That was mostly in the mid 90s to early 2000s.

[lkfmdc]

A white guy calling himself "Huang Aguilar" :rolleyes:
of course, he IS claiming to be a shaolin monk, absurd goes in pairs apparently

maybe he just read a bad spanish translation of the lotus sutra and thought he was supposed to sacrifice *****s to Buddha...

[ngokfei]

ah doesn't surprise me. The MA scene has always had its share of wacko's especially those who thought they were shaolin monks.

Thats what you get when you indoctrinate foreigners into the Shaolin Temple merely for $$$$. Hell most if not all the MA monks are not even Full Monks.

So lets see how many incidents have happened out there.

1. Monk hang's himself in Shi Guo Lin's school

2. Shi Yan Ming isn't really a monk as he has a wife and kids both in China and the USA. Now he runs a cult temple

3.

4.


bet there are many more

[David Jamieson]

Near as I can tell, monks are human too. they suffer all the same failings as people who aren't monks and have their own peculiar ways of going about the world...like everyone else.

If anything, I believe monks are less capable than people out there in the world dealing with it every day. It's ok to be a monk for a while in my opinion and viewpoint, but to stay one is to deny yourself a great deal of your own humanity. Successes and failures each!

I wouldn't put monks on any pedestals all too soon. Gives them even further to fall when you do that. :) This one has fallen by his own hand it seems.

[David Jamieson]

Near as I can tell, monks are human too. they suffer all the same failings as people who aren't monks and have their own peculiar ways of going about the world...like everyone else.

If anything, I believe monks are less capable than people out there in the world dealing with it every day. It's ok to be a monk for a while in my opinion and viewpoint, but to stay one is to deny yourself a great deal of your own humanity. Successes and failures each!

I wouldn't put monks on any pedestals all too soon. Gives them even further to fall when you do that. :) This one has fallen by his own hand it seems.

Additionally: It turns out the guy has confessed to not only torturing the prostitute but also to the murder. yeesh. yes, that is what you get when you sell out something that means integrity to someone that has no integrity because you have lost yours by selling it.

[lkfmdc]

Additionally: It turns out the guy has confessed to not only torturing the prostitute but also to the murder. yeesh. yes, that is what you get when you sell out something that means integrity to someone that has no integrity because you have lost yours by selling it.

more for the chronicle that is the shaolin circus....

[lkfmdc]

I think this is the other thing that was mentioned in regards to shaolin scandal

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=b8bd81f8d45fca9cd0197 912ef7aa8da

[RenDaHai]

Disgusting.

Legit? Haven't seen any actual Shaolin in his videos, just some performance stuff. Though I do recognise him, I think we may have crossed paths at some point.

As a Shaolin practitioner myself I condemn this heinous crime in the strongest possible terms. The Shaolin discipline has dramatically failed to divert this warped individual from his foul impulses.

People like him, they promote themselves as being 'Shaolin Masters' yet do not demonstrate knowledge of actual Shaolin and clearly fail to represent its ideals, ideals which should come first when you dare to use that name. Things like this make me contemplate not associating with the name Shaolin any longer.

Prayers for the victim(s) and families.

[lkfmdc]

Disgusting.

Legit? Haven't seen any actual Shaolin in his videos, just some performance stuff. Though I do recognise him, I think we may have crossed paths at some point.

As a Shaolin practitioner myself I condemn this heinous crime in the strongest possible terms. The Shaolin discipline has dramatically failed to divert this warped individual from his foul impulses.

People like him, they promote themselves as being 'Shaolin Masters' yet do not demonstrate knowledge of actual Shaolin and clearly fail to represent its ideals, ideals which should come first when you dare to use that name. Things like this make me contemplate not associating with the name Shaolin any longer.

Prayers for the victim(s) and families.

clearly he was a wack job... but he was a wack job that was given some credence by shaolin...

and, on the other hand, you hae the monk who committed suicide at Guo Lin's... gonna be harder for you to dismiss Guo Lin as an abberation, he is a legit shaolin person

[Subitai]

SHAOLIN GRAPPLING

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hpt_ZVXm-I


well he's creative

[lkfmdc]

SHAOLIN GRAPPLING

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hpt_ZVXm-I


well he's creative

I read a news article on this in Spanish, said he was originally a JUDO SCHOOL so I guess it wasn't that hard to be "creative"

but, heck, his clothing alone was "creative"

[LFJ]

ALWAYS knew this guy was a nutcase from the first I saw of him and what he was doing (his "Shaolin monk" claims and cult establishment he dared to call a Buddhist Monastery).

I was disgusted with his actions then and spoke out against it. But nothing near the disgust I feel now that we find out he's a serial killer.

I feel no shame in debunking frauds and no one should be afraid to do so. Do what you can to keep people from going to them, as harmless as they seem. Fear not the lawsuit. It's hard to tell and unexpected, but they may turn out like this, after all. Reports say they found bones and other apparently human remains in his home and gym and he admitted to other murders.

[rett]

Hindsight and all that, but all the creepy knife-fetish stuff in that youtube video should have been a warning sign. Training form is one thing, but lovingly caressing a rambo knife and sliding it into its sheath with bedroom eyes? Putting that to chanting in front of a Buddha statue is just plain bizarre.

[Hanak]

Was very shocked when i'v read this.

Grandmaster Huang Carlos is arrested for double murder on 2 prostitutes.



http://www.diariovasco.com/20130603/idad/sociedad/hallan-restos-oseos-gimnasio-201306030940.html#

[David Jamieson]

Hindsight and all that, but all the creepy knife-fetish stuff in that youtube video should have been a warning sign. Training form is one thing, but lovingly caressing a rambo knife and sliding it into its sheath with bedroom eyes? Putting that to chanting in front of a Buddha statue is just plain bizarre.

Indeed it is. That was just over the top weird and had ...nothing to do with Shaolin and especially nothing to do with Buddhism.

[GeneChing]

I met Juan Carlos in '95. He trained alongside my class, not directly with us, but on the same floor at the same time. He was good then, very fast and strong, and extremely dedicated to his practice. He worked hard and was there by himself. He was focused mostly on modern wushu, but both taolu and sanda. He did some of the traditional Shaolin too. His skills were impressive. He was certainly one of the strongest laowai in Dengfeng at the time.

He did demonstrate with the wuseng, which many foreigners do. There's a certain level of acceptance there for sure, but there's also a level of the wuseng using the demo participation as a test for their student and a break for themselves. I even demo'ed with the monks with some tourists. But Juan was far more skilled than me. I never even mastered an aerial, so the notion of me performing for tourists was silly.

I'm surprised Juan Carlos didn't make our Non-Chinese Shaolin Monks list (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65109). He definitely posed as a monk in the European circles. He had a decent claim to being one of the earliest laowai there.

I'm totally horrified by all of this. Who wouldn't be? Juan Carlos was an intense guy, but I would never had seen this coming. Then again, I didn't know him that well really. I think he had a wife and kid. It's all so tragic.

[Hanak]

@geneching: You say it right, he's a strong and willing person.

Dont know what brought him so far todo such things.
Off Course i'm sorry for the victims.

But when my friend told me this, this morning.
I was complete frozen, or how I say it.

Now I can think in a other way about it, sorry again for the victims.


About shaolin:

Those monks you see drinking beer, why not?

Actually how much MONKS are left, by monks I mean TRUE monks!
Not because you are a good student of some near by shaolin school and you are lucky to train with some big masters, and you shave your hair that you can be called a MONK!

But off course those people use the word SHAOLIN MONK.

What brings more money, Kung Fu Master or Shaolin Monk?

And please, in my opinion that can win money, from child they train in a school in deng feng until they are begin 20 or late 20!

All those years of suffering and hard training!
99% do it to have a good pay'd job after.

What schould you do!

[rett]

I don't know if anyone one else has seen this but The Telegraph has this detail:


According to local reports, Aguilar had been undergoing treatment for a cerebral tumour and his personality had become quite altered.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10098652/Spanish-Kung-Fu-champion-suspected-of-multiple-murders.html

Of course there are no excuses, and nothing can reduce the horror, but's possible this was a physical-caused condition that arose recently, not something he's had with him all along.

[MatthewPolly]

As my Shaolin brother, Gene Ching, noted: we met Juan Carlos in the mid '90s at the Shaolin Temple Wushu Center. His skill level was fairly impressive. He seemed a little odd, but no odder than many foreigners who came to the Shaolin village while I was there. It did seem strange to me that he shaved his head, wore Buddhist robes, and claimed to be a Shaolin monk, when he was not. Foreigners could not become Shaolin monks. The highest level they were allowed to reach was Shaolin disciple. Plus he had a wife and kid, so I assumed it was simply a marketing ploy on his part.

Obviously, there is no connection between his Shaolin training and this heinous crime. Tens of thousands of Chinese students and hundreds of foreigners have studied at Shaolin schools and 99.9% have gone on to become healthy, happy, productive members of their communities.

[ngokfei]

here's another report on this Shaolin Nut

Juan Carlos Aguilar, Shaolin Master, Confesses To Murder After Arrest For Assault (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/03/juan-carlos-aguilar-shaolin-master-murder_n_3380340.html?ir=World)

[LFJ]

I don't know if anyone one else has seen this but The Telegraph has this detail:


According to local reports, Aguilar had been undergoing treatment for a cerebral tumour and his personality had become quite altered.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10098652/Spanish-Kung-Fu-champion-suspected-of-multiple-murders.html

Of course there are no excuses, and nothing can reduce the horror, but's possible this was a physical-caused condition that arose recently, not something he's had with him all along.

Personality altered? He has been crazy for years and has always been a fraud. He was running a cult establishment there which he called a Buddhist monastery and named himself the abbot. This had been going on for years. I wouldn't be surprised if there were earlier crimes within the cult as well.

[rett]

Personality altered? He has been crazy for years and has always been a fraud. He was running a cult establishment there which he called a Buddhist monastery and named himself the abbot. This had been going on for years. I wouldn't be surprised if there were earlier crimes within the cult as well.

He may have been "crazy" for years and a "fraud" without being murderous. There is a difference there. We can’t know for sure, but if he had a brain tumor and people around him said he changed, it's not far fetched.

Are his earlier videos as creepy as the one the that Miqi posted with the knife-worship? The date on that video is very recent. Just before the two known crimes, I believe (but am not 100% on the timing of the confessed murder)

Dont' get me wrong. I'm not defending the crime and I don't consider him ever to have been a Buddhist monk. Just a person in a robe, using the robe for personal gain.

[LFJ]

Brain tumors can certainly have unpredictable effects, but I don't think they cause murderous impulses. The impulses must already be there and the tumor makes it difficult to act against them.

This guy always seemed crazy to me, but was able to restrain himself. It may be the development of the tumor that finally unleashed him.

[DamoY2K]

Met him a few years ago ..... the guy was somewhat of a nutcase, obviously unimaginable that he is apparently a serial killer ..... but certainly easy to spot as quite a "weirdo"!

Facts well known about him in Europe:

1 - has been writing books stating to be a student of Suxi and disciple of Deyang when he was neither, as repeatedly stated by Deyang, who was involved with him by Budo magazine in various events and interviews as they were massively promoting Aguilar in Spain during the early 2000s

2 - in the last few years wrote magazine articles about himself having attained abilities higher than any master before him, including curing diseases with a touch, learning languages by browsing a dictionary, killing at a distance with energy, etc

3 - was aggressive to other teachers without reason, using totally out of place inappropriate verbal abuse and threats of harm coming to them.

Because of points 1 - 2 - 3 becoming quite well known around Europe, in the last decade he gradually lost much popularity and lately even Budo magazine - great "sponsors" and friends of his - stopped featuring him. Apparently he recently developed a serious illness, but he was certainly doing points 1 - 2 - 3 well before that.

Anyway, a very very sad story for him, his family, his students, and most of all the victims of his apparent insanity.....

Shaolin is obviously also taking and indirect but substantial "battering" on the european media at the moment.....

[GeneChing]

I can't remember my last interaction with him. It must have been at least a decade ago. Since then, I saw a few of the early Budo articles, but Budo isn't distributed in any nearby newsstand anymore (hasn't been for years and we're lucky to find a newsstand that still distributes us nowadays) so I can't really remember when that was. So I lost track of him years ago. I can't remember the last thing I heard about him. With so many people in the Shaolin community, it's hard to keep track of everyone.

Nevertheless, I'm ashamed that I couldn't have foreseen his evil. He has brought more disgrace to contemporary Shaolin than anyone so far.

Shaolin torturer's young victim passes away (http://www.thelocal.es/20130605/shaolin-torturers-victim-worse-than-ever)

http://www.thelocal.es/userdata/images/article/9fea743162cba3ada287b893a35cd3f5a120c27e741fa72ee1 5739cd8dd2c168.jpg
Aguilar had been a self-proclaimed Shaolin master since he first went to China 20 years ago and had made numerous TV appearances in which he claimed to be a spiritual guru. Photo: YouTube
Published: 05 Jun 2013 10:25 GMT+02:00 | Print version
Updated: 05 Jun 2013 10:25 GMT+02:00

The woman who was tortured by a self-proclaimed martial arts expert in Bilbao has died.

The 29-year-old Ada Ortuya died at 12.35pm, sources at Bibao's Basurto Hospital said on Wednesday.

Ortuya, of Nigerian origin, had been at the hospital in a coma since being found by unconscious by paramedics on Sunday at a gym owned by martial artist Juan Carlos Aguilar.

Aguilar has already confessed to the murder of another woman whose remains were discovered in his gym.

The head of Basque Country's Public Prosecutor's Office Juan Calparsoro said on Wednesday that Aguilar would "clearly" face at least 30 years in prison, Spain's La Vanguardia newspaper reported.

Meanwhile, Aguilar’s status as a Shaolin master has been called into question by Spain’s Kung Fu federation, who reject the aggressor’s claims that he was a world champion stating that he wasn’t even a registered fighter.

"Technically he was good, but he wasn't a great fighter," read the statement sent out to all the official martial arts federations.

Aguilar had been a self-proclaimed Shaolin master since he first went to China 20 years ago, reported El País on Wednesday.

His willingness to publicize himself as the only real Shaolin expert in Spain with videos and interviews had caused a lot controversy within the martial arts world.

Others have said he was more of an “acrobat” than a “monk”.

Alex Dunham (alex.dunham@thelocal.com)

[bawang]

this is why tradition says choose your students carefully and judge their character. this is what happens when you sell kung fu like fried chicken.

if a kung fu guy has even a hint of strangeness I stay 500 miles away. you can smell the crazy off them.

[GeneChing]

if a kung fu guy has even a hint of strangeness I stay 500 miles away. you can smell the crazy off them. and what does that say about you, bawang? :p

[DamoY2K]

Gene as far as I could tell it has been a kind of "crescendo" ... in the late '90s early '00 he was claiming to be the only "western Shaolin monk", then when other more legit westerners started to appear he upped the claims to "disciple of Suxi and/or Deyang", then when real western disciples of those masters appeared he then went to "greatest level ever attained" including claims of illnesses cured, distance killing (!!!), etc.

By that point most of the european Shaolin community stopped having anything to do with him, for example he was not present at any Shaolin festivals or other "officially sanctioned" events of the past 5 - 6 years or more.

People say that at that point he created more and more a kind of personal cult sect around him, kind of isolated with his students. But that I don't know as once the Shaolin community stopped having anything to do with him then I as everyone else lost track of his life / school.

Certainly the very worse Shaolin - related event ever to surface in modern times ..... although it probably should be viewed not in relation to Shaolin: there are accountant or nurses serial killers ..... no one talks about accounting or nursing as the cause.

But of course a "Shaolin monk" potential serial killer makes for great press ..... :rolleyes:

[pazman]

this is why tradition says choose your students carefully and judge their character. this is what happens when you sell kung fu like fried chicken.

That's an insult to fried chicken. In my hometown, ~95% of the fried chicken is delicious and authentic (KFC ruined it). What is the figure for kung fu schools that are authentic (or delicious?).;)

[ShaolinDiva]

that's an insult to fried chicken. In my hometown, ~95% of the fried chicken is delicious and authentic (kfc ruined it). What is the figure for kung fu schools that are authentic (or delicious?).;)

rotfl!! :)

[wiz cool c]

the reason kung fu is" sold" so openly to foreigners or whoever in china ,is because maybe 1 in 10,000 adult men in china have even the slightest interest in kung fu. if they didn't, the art would die out completely. in fact if not for foreign students around the world it would be lost quickly.

i can tell you with absolute certainly, chinese people could care less about kung fu. i don't care what you see on tv ,thousands of wu shu demonstrators or what. men in china care about work buying their wife a house, raising their kid, and taking care of their parents. teenagers and children care about studies, that is it. if they have any other free time it's spent on computer games. some teenagers may play a little basket ball,once in a while. it is that simple.if you dont like this and want to talk out your ass then go ahead, but that is how it is ,in real life here in china.where i live.

[LFJ]

The same could be said back in the West. The majority of colleagues in your office building aren't going to be martial artists and could care less about it, and you could look at people on the street and assume they aren't martial artists and that not many people are into it. But there is certainly a large martial arts community there if you search it out.

It's the same case in China. You just have to go to the right places at the right time of the day to find them. You can't just look at someone on the street and know who is or isn't a martial artists, unless you go interview them all.

I just need to step outside the front door in the early morning where I live and I can find groups of people training Yang or Chen style Taijiquan, Xinyi Liuhequan, etc. just around the block. Then down the street there's a large center for Shaolin, Wing Chun, Sanda, etc..

And I've yet to see a single martial arts school anywhere else in the world besides China that has 30,000+ students enrolled and training everyday....

It sounds to me like you need to stop being so jaded and get out more. ;)

[wiz cool c]

there are some poor villagers that may make up 95 percent of the people that study kung fu. they live in some school and do it full time and basically have no future cause nobody is interested in kung fu in china. the truth hurts,but that is how it is. it is not even a past time here,except for some old people who do tai chi in the park.

[LFJ]

As I said, you need to get out more. Make some friends. But I think we've been through this with you before. That's just your attitude. You are a bit socially awkward I guess.

[bawang]

and what does that say about you, bawang? :p

I am the most sane man in the world.

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/31/67934941_a2cd3a3943.jpg

[bawang]

As I said, you need to get out more. Make some friends. But I think we've been through this with you before. That's just your attitude. You are a bit socially awkward I guess.

I find kung fu is more common in the countryside, its too busy in the cities for most people. poor people have no time for kung fu, rich people are too stuck up for kung fu. they like more western things, like cheating on your wife and doing heroin.

a lot of village teachers view the 90s kung fu boom to be a betrayal; most students abandoned them after they paid the money and learned the form. they are now more private. a lot of people also still have habit of being secretive since the cultural revolution.

[wiz cool c]

As I said, you need to get out more. Make some friends. But I think we've been through this with you before. That's just your attitude. You are a bit socially awkward I guess.

yeah i spend all my time with hot chicks,i need to start hanging out with kung fu guys more. but believe what you want

[bawang]

yeah i spend all my time with prostitutes,i need to start hanging out with actual Chinese people more. but believe what you want

ok bro
sdfsdf

[rett]

yeah i spend all my time with hot chicks,

Are you trying to impress people by admitting you have to go to Asia to meet chicks?

[Kellen Bassette]

they like more western things, like cheating on your wife and doing heroin.


We do have other pastimes you know...:rolleyes:

[wiz cool c]

Are you trying to impress people by admitting you have to go to Asia to meet chicks?

yes right;)

[Alex Córdoba]

maybe 1 in 10,000 adult men in china have even the slightest interest in kung fu.

Given the population of China in 2011: 1,344,000,000; 1 out of 10,000 would mean that only 134,400 adults are interested in Kung Fu. If just 1 school can hold 30,000 students, 134,400 seems a bit low. Nonetheless it's quite a high number of practitioners.

[wiz cool c]

don't be a ffffing geek, the point is nobody cares about kung fu in china. and it is the foreign students, that will keep this art alive in the future, cause for the most part china has turned it's back on kung fu, and people are discouraged from learning it. men in china play games like badminton, the most nonthreatening sport on earth, you think that is a coincidence

[LFJ]

@Wiz

You really can't make such generalizations. It's ignorant of you. Badminton is perhaps what you see outside your apartment window. You'd see more if you went outside and looked for it. You're imagining the worst.

I see kung fu being trained by Chinese every day, and the large center down the street that offers various styles is all Chinese. There is also a large number of practitioners that are non-commercial and don't train openly.

What I'd like to know is where all the foreign saviors of kung fu are?

[wiz cool c]

where do you live,what is the name of that center,i'm curious. and if you live in china and don't know that badminton is a popular pastime for men,then you must be living a sheltered life there.

[LFJ]

I know you see badminton. I'm saying you'd see more if you went out. Obviously my life here is not as sheltered as yours. I live in Shanghai by the way, and the place is here: http://www.chinesekungfu.com.cn (http://www.chinesekungfu.com.cn/) They have every style of Taijiquan, Shaolin, Xinyi Liuhequan, Baguazhang, Wing Chun, Sanda, etc.. It's a rather large place, but I don't know of any foreigners who train there. In fact, I rarely see foreigners out in this area anyway.

[wiz cool c]

ok good for you.

[bawang]

kung fu is not about how many students you have. your manliness is about not how many loose women you bang.

[Kellen Bassette]

maybe 1 in 10,000 adult men in china have even the slightest interest in kung fu.

That's more than in my area. In the 3 county area, there's about 250,000 people and 0 TCMA schools. The only Chinese based school I know of is a JKD school in a church basement....If you want to do TCMA you have to travel...I think less than 1 in 10,000 train Kung Fu here.....

[rett]

I know you see badminton. I'm saying you'd see more if you went out. Obviously my life here is not as sheltered as yours. I live in Shanghai by the way, and the place is here: http://www.chinesekungfu.com.cn (http://www.chinesekungfu.com.cn/) They have every style of Taijiquan, Shaolin, Xinyi Liuhequan, Baguazhang, Wing Chun, Sanda, etc.. It's a rather large place, but I don't know of any foreigners who train there. In fact, I rarely see foreigners out in this area anyway.

This is like the stereotypical argument between a married couple, with wiz cool c as the wife.

He makes unwarranted generalizations, commits logical fallacies, and frames conclusions in the form of absolutes rather than probabilities. He's not actually thinking, just expressing emotions. (probably some form of frustration, by the sound of it)

The right thing for the husband to do is listen to the cry behind the words, be comforting, and not point out the errors.

[rett]

Here's the website of the Chinese Wushu Association. Anyone able to read Chinese who can find figures on number of chapters/members within the organization?

http://www.wushu.com.cn/

[wiz cool c]

went to a sanda class today. mixed age class, one adult male student. so yeah kung fu is thriving in china.

[Songshan]

ah doesn't surprise me. The MA scene has always had its share of wacko's especially those who thought they were shaolin monks.

Thats what you get when you indoctrinate foreigners into the Shaolin Temple merely for $$$$. Hell most if not all the MA monks are not even Full Monks.

So lets see how many incidents have happened out there.

1. Monk hang's himself in Shi Guo Lin's school

2. Shi Yan Ming isn't really a monk as he has a wife and kids both in China and the USA. Now he runs a cult temple

3.

4.


bet there are many more

eh...I get what you are saying but it's kind of absurd to make that much of a blanket accusation. I know you singled out Shaolin but I have read and seen countless stories of martial arts instructors being arrested for all sorts of assaults to improper relationships with students. Foreign and domestic.

Either way I understand how Gene feels. I have experienced something similar when you think you know someone you really don't know who they are. Tragic indeed.

[ngokfei]

Songshan

Shaolin Temple was 1st and foremost a Buddhist Religous Temple.

Sure they've accepted lay disciples at times but nothing like the commercial aspect of it today.

I would guess that 90% of their activities is the propogation of martial arts.

As such they don't follow typical regulations that put individiuals in a laymen's position for quite some time not unlike a "Prospect" who wants membership in a MC.

Usually there is a trial period before an individual is ordained some of the regulations are:

"The Ten Precepts upheld by śrāmaṇeras are:

Refrain from killing living things.
Refrain from stealing.
Refrain from unchastity (sensuality, sexuality, lust).
Refrain from lying.
Refrain from taking intoxicants.
Refrain from taking food at inappropriate times (after noon).
Refrain from singing, dancing, playing music or attending entertainment programs (performances).
Refrain from wearing perfume, cosmetics and garland (decorative accessories).
Refrain from sitting on high chairs and sleeping on luxurious, soft beds.
Refrain from accepting money."


I would make the assumption that they would have to be Buddhist just to qualify.

My issue is the commercialization and the bad seeds that come from it and yes there is alot of it going on in the martial arts in general.

[GeneChing]

I would guess that 90% of their activities is the propogation of martial arts. There are dozens of private schools in Dengfeng that are 100% dedicated to martial arts. Those can be generalized as part of Shaolin Temple, but if you're talking just about the Temple proper, they actually do a lot of activities that are strictly Buddhist like gatherings and intensives, along with their charitable works like the hospital (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64937) and the orphanage (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57235), so 90% would be inaccurate. Only a small portion of that aspect of Shaolin is covered in the English media, and I'd argue that we've covered more of it than anyone (http://www.martialartsmart.com/19341.html) save the Chinese newspapers. We don't cover all of it by any means.

[ngokfei]

Nah I'm quite sure that 90% is pretty accurate, especially in regards to the source of their revenue which in turn should adequately fund their side projects (hospital/orphanage etc.).

Perhaps in future this image will change and they can once again assume the respectable role of a religous institute.

I'm reading in various news agency releases and forums that this guy was never considered ordained prepresentative of the temple.

But if this is so, as there are probably many such individuals floating about, why doesn't the Abbott Yong Xin made a public statement about them or even this situation.

As of yet there (as far as I've been able to locate) has not been reported any public response to this item by Yong Xin or the Temple.

[wenshu]

Perhaps in future this image will change and they can once again assume the respectable role of a religous institute.


Perhaps in the future you will no longer promote your chop socky "Dances With Wolves" fantasy as history.


In 1832, for example, a Dengfeng-County magistrate issued a strict warning to the Shaolin Monastery concerning the behavior of its subsidiary-shrine monks, whom he accused not only of dietary, but also of sexual, offenses. Shaolin-affiliated monks, magistrate He Wei (fl. 1830) charged, engage in drinking, gambling, and whoring:

"Since ancient times, the Shaolin Monastery has been a famous temple. Everywhere, there is not a monk who does not look up to it. Its resident clerics should strictly adhere to the Buddhist code and carefully follow the Pure Regulations, thereby displaying their respect to the monastic community, and their reverence to its laws.

"Now, we have been hearing recently that [Shaolin's] various subsidiary-shrines monks have been regularly interacting with the laity, and have been sheltering criminals. Some invite friends to drunken parties, other gamble in groups, or even gang together to bring over prostitutes. They collude secretly and collaborate in all sorts of evil. This is extremely hateful."

Even though he politely refrained from condemning the Shaolin monks themselves - reserving his criticism for their subsidiary-shrine colleagues - one gets the impression that the magistrate had the former in mind as well. After all, He Wei addressed his admonition to the Shaolin monks - not to their affiliates. It appears, therefore, that his opening allusion to "subsidiary-shrine monks" was meant to save the Shaolin monks face. Indeed, as the letter unfolds, the distinction between "monastery-monks" and "subsidiary-shrine monks" blurs. The magistrate forewarns all Shaolin monks - residents and affiliates alike - that they will be severely punished for their religious transgressions:

"After the monks in the entire monastery read our order and are informed of its contents, they should all purify their hearts and cleanse their minds. Each one of them should burn incense, cultivate the way, and chant the sutras, as well as plough and weed the land. As to all the various types of lay people, the monks are forbidden to secretly collude with them. Nor are the monks allowed to interfere in outside matters, harboring criminals, and instigating trouble. If they dare purposely disobey, and [their crimes] happen to be exposed, we are sure to consider them more serious and punish them accordingly.

As to lay people, they should not be permitted into the monastery...Tenant farmers should reside elsewhere. They should not be allowed to live near the monks."

The magistrate's warning suggests that he was primarily concerned with public order, not monastic law. His edict is replete with references to hidden criminals, which he claimed were sheltered at the Shaolin Monastery. In this respect, He Wei resembled other officials who were concerned with violations of Buddhist law only so far as they proved that their perpetrators were fake monks, and as such prone to sedition and crime. Throughout the Qing Period the government was apprehensive - with some reason - lest graduates of Shaolin's military program would join sectarian rebels. In 1739, for example, the high-ranking Mongolian official Yaertu (?-1767) memorialized to the Qianlong Emperor (reigned: 1736-1795) that "...the sturdy youths of Henan are accustomed to violence, many studying the martial arts. For example, under the pretext of teaching the martial arts, Shaolin-Temple monks have been gathering worthless dregs. Violent criminal types willfully study evil customs which become a fashion. Heterodox sectarians target such criminals, tempting them to join their sects, thereby increasing their numbers."

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=521

[GeneChing]

Nah I'm quite sure that 90% is pretty accurate, especially in regards to the source of their revenue which in turn should adequately fund their side projects (hospital/orphanage etc.).
What evidence is this 'sureness' based upon exactly?


But if this is so, as there are probably many such individuals floating about, why doesn't the Abbott Yong Xin made a public statement about them or even this situation.

As of yet there (as far as I've been able to locate) has not been reported any public response to this item by Yong Xin or the Temple. Shaolin Temple and the abbot deal with a lot of criticism. If you read my latest interview with the Abbot in our Shaolin Special 2013 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/index.php), his response to my CEO monk question expresses his attitude towards such bad press in general.

[KungFubar]

the reason kung fu is" sold" so openly to foreigners or whoever in china ,is because maybe 1 in 10,000 adult men in china have even the slightest interest in kung fu. if they didn't, the art would die out completely. in fact if not for foreign students around the world it would be lost quickly.

i can tell you with absolute certainly, chinese people could care less about kung fu. i don't care what you see on tv ,thousands of wu shu demonstrators or what. men in china care about work buying their wife a house, raising their kid, and taking care of their parents. teenagers and children care about studies, that is it. if they have any other free time it's spent on computer games. some teenagers may play a little basket ball,once in a while. it is that simple.if you dont like this and want to talk out your ass then go ahead, but that is how it is ,in real life here in china.where i live.

so are there many kung fu schools in china? and do the students notice that there are only foreigners in the classes and no chinese people?

[ngokfei]

wenshu: nice history lesson/cut and paste and?

I get the info and stats from the same places/sources you do Gene.:)

[pazman]

wenshu: nice history lesson/cut and paste and?


When was the Shaolin temple a respectable religious institution?

Shaolin is famous as the "birthplace" of Chan but it has not been a Chan authority for a long, long time.

[GeneChing]

I get the info and stats from the same places/sources you do Gene.:) I doubt that.

[ngokfei]

hmm I'm seeing alot of similarities between you and Martha now.

[GeneChing]

I am often compared to lithe L.A. blondes. :p

But seriously, do you have any sources for your comments?

[ngokfei]

common now gene, I can't be doing your work for you.

It would be nice for individuals who write articles or post " " to provide source material for confirmation.

Oh wait that was the now defunct JAMA. LOL

never mind.

[wiz cool c]

so are there many kung fu schools in china? and do the students notice that there are only foreigners in the classes and no chinese people?

i have been in china 7 years, beijing half the time. i studied bagua and shuai jiao there, my bagua teacher taught all foreigners. the shuai jiao all chinese except me, the shuai jiao school ,the student live there and do it as a job. in shenzhen where i live now, i have studied with three teachers, my first teacher taught in a park, he taught mainly tai chi which does have a small following in china, and i was his only foreign student, after him i went to a commercial school,one of the only i have seen in china, during the summer they had a kung fu day camp which had about 30 children students. adult class had two teens one chinese man and me. now i study with a teacher,he teaches privates at his place, he has 4 or 5 students now, i am the only foreigner.

[GeneChing]

common now gene, I can't be doing your work for you. Really? :p

[breeze]

90 % of Shaolin temple's activities are propagation of martial arts?. It rather seems, that 90% of what people in the "West" are perceiving of Shaolin temple's activities are martial arts, Buddhist activities are in large part ignored. Only very few students of Shaolin see more than decoration in the temple's Buddhism and make the effort to learn also Buddhism from Shaolin monks (or when speaking Chinese from the Shaolin homepage).

Recent activities have been the Ordination-month, where almost 500 ordinands received monk-ordination and more than 100 lay Buddhists took the Bodhisattva-vows. Then there was the several day lasting Water-Land-rite, the Shaolin medicine summit, the rescue work and ceremony for earthquake vicitms of Ya'an, besides the regular buddhist festivals and ceremonies. Besides Shaolin temple is still very active in helping to build up old temples,- and there are many more activities. Surely are not all "charitable", but Buddist activities and cultural activities linked to Buddhism.

Just visit Shaolin temple's homepage (http://www.shaolin.org.cn/templates/EN_SL_new/sl_new.aspx?nodeid=294) from time to time. Or go to see with your own eyes.

[r.(shaolin)]

"90% of what people in the "West" are perceiving of Shaolin temple's activities are martial arts,"

I would say 99% of the Chinese in China are perceiving Shaolin as martial arts.
r.






















5

[Songshan]

Songshan

Shaolin Temple was 1st and foremost a Buddhist Religous Temple.

Sure they've accepted lay disciples at times but nothing like the commercial aspect of it today.

I would guess that 90% of their activities is the propogation of martial arts.

As such they don't follow typical regulations that put individiuals in a laymen's position for quite some time not unlike a "Prospect" who wants membership in a MC.

Usually there is a trial period before an individual is ordained some of the regulations are:

"The Ten Precepts upheld by śrāmaṇeras are:

Refrain from killing living things.
Refrain from stealing.
Refrain from unchastity (sensuality, sexuality, lust).
Refrain from lying.
Refrain from taking intoxicants.
Refrain from taking food at inappropriate times (after noon).
Refrain from singing, dancing, playing music or attending entertainment programs (performances).
Refrain from wearing perfume, cosmetics and garland (decorative accessories).
Refrain from sitting on high chairs and sleeping on luxurious, soft beds.
Refrain from accepting money."


I would make the assumption that they would have to be Buddhist just to qualify.

My issue is the commercialization and the bad seeds that come from it and yes there is alot of it going on in the martial arts in general.

Ngokfei, christian priests and pastors strive to follow rules like that as well. Noone can ever be born to adhere to these principles and never violate them. Its a daily lifestyle commitment. To sit here and dismiss modern shaolin because of the things you posted is indeed absurd. It happens in all religions not just shaolin.

I see nothing wrong with Shaolin promoting martial arts in general or even commercializing it. Money is a need for survival in the year 2013. You said it martial arts is a business in the west as well.

[Royal Dragon]

Hindsight and all that, but all the creepy knife-fetish stuff in that youtube video should have been a warning sign. Training form is one thing, but lovingly caressing a rambo knife and sliding it into its sheath with bedroom eyes? Putting that to chanting in front of a Buddha statue is just plain bizarre.

Hmm, I have seen this a lot in performances from Silat groups. Their forms are often really intimate looking dances with their blades. You don't see that in western schools, because we are much more "Matter of fact" about stuff. However, if you go to Silat.tv, you will see what I mean.

[GeneChing]

mi espanol es muy malo. como se dice 'shanked' en espanol?


El falso shaolín, aislado en prisión tras ser agredido (http://www.abc.es/espana/20140729/abci-monje-shaolin-pualada-201407282218.html)
I. REYERO / BILBAO
Día 29/07/2014 - 15.11h
Otro interno le atacó en el patio con un cepillo de dientes afilado que le provocó una herida profunda en el cuello

http://www.abc.es/Media/201407/29/aguilar-saholin--644x362.jpg
archivo
Juan Carlos Aguilar, el falso monje Shaolín

Juan Carlos Aguilar, el falso monje shaolín acusado del asesinato de dos mujeres en Bilbao, fue herido de gravedad en la cabeza y el cuello por otro recluso de la prisión de Dueñas (Palencia), que le atacó con un cepillo de dientes afilado, según confirmaron a ABC fuentes del centro penitenciario. El ataque tuvo lugar ayer a la hora del paseo, sobre las 17 horas, cuando Aguilar se hallaba en sus horas de patio junto a otros «quince o dieciocho» internos más. Uno de ellos, de origen canario y de perfil psiquiátrico, se abalanzó sobre el falso shaolín con el objeto punzante, que previamente había pasado sin ningún problema el detector de metales. Aguilar fue trasladado de inmediato al hospital Río Carrión de la capital palentina, ingresado de urgencia con heridas de pronóstico reservado debido a que la puñalada del cuello estuvo «a punto de afectarle la carótida», según las fuentes consultadas.

El falso maestro «shaolín», profesor experimentado de artes marciales, no pudo sin embargo defenderse ante el ataque del preso, muy corpulento, de 1,90 metros de estatura y 130 kilos de peso. Cuatro funcionarios que reaccionaron de inmediato para aplacar al agresor también recibieron lesiones hasta que lograron reducirle, tras ajustarle una sujeción mecánica. Aguilar fue llevado a la enfermería del penal de Dueñas, donde le pusieron dos grapas para cerrar la herida de la cabeza, aunque dada la profundidad de la herida del cuello se le trasladó de inmediato al hospital.

«Fue directo a por él, sin mediar palabra. El motivo según parece es que Aguilar es muy mediático y según dijo después, pensó que agrediendo a un famoso posiblemente le trasladarían a un psiquiátrico», aseguraron a ABC fuentes de la prisión, que destacan la tranquilidad en la reacción del agredido. «No es conflictivo, no presenta ese perfil de agresividad que sí tienen otros internos. Él es más bien tranquilo, excesivamente tranquilo», insisten desde el centro penitenciario, que confirman que hasta ahora no había tenido ningún otro incidente en la prisión pese a que es «muy conocido» por el resto dado su historial mediático.

Aguilar fue detenido el 2 de junio del año pasado por la Ertzaintza mientras agredía hasta la muerte a una de sus dos víctimas en su gimnasio de Bilbao, dos chicas de origen colombiano y nigeriano, con las que tuvo contacto a través de círculos de la prostitución. Los investigadores hallaron los restos descuartizados de la primera víctima en su centro de formación de artes marciales.

Desde julio pasado permanece interno en la prisión de Dueñas a la espera del juicio, que se abrirá en otoño. Se halla en régimen cerrado, en una celda individual, aunque durante las 4 horas diarias de patio sí coincide con otra quincena de internos, con los que mantiene una «actitud distante», según las fuentes. «No se relaciona con nadie, no es el típico preso delincuente común. Está apartado. Le acusan por los delitos que tiene, pero hasta ahora no había protagonizado conflictos», señalan desde la cárcel. El resto del tiempo, Aguilar permanece «tranquilo» en su celda, donde lee y ve la televisión.

[LFJ]

Three meals a day, scheduled workout times, and television in his cell? Is he at a resort? Better conditions than he had at Shaolin... well, except for the getting shanked part.

[GeneChing]

I'm sure I have a photo with Juan Carlos somewhere, however I'm kind of afraid to look for it.



Can Bilbao’s kung fu killer be held responsible for his actions? (http://elpais.com/elpais/2014/08/27/inenglish/1409133067_882500.html)
Bogus Shaolin monk Juan Carlos Aguilar faces life in prison for the slaying of two women in 2013
Jesús Duva 27 AGO 2014 - 15:47 CEST

http://ep00.epimg.net/politica/imagenes/2014/08/22/actualidad/1408717012_478221_1408717326_noticia_grande.jpg
Fake Shaolin monk Juan Carlos Aguilar in an image taken from one of his videos.

The trial of Juan Carlos Aguilar, the bogus kung fu master who murdered two women in Bilbao last year, is due to begin this fall. Basque Country regional police say that Aguilar, who has refused a psychiatric examination, is mentally fit to appear before the court.

However, in 2010 Aguilar was diagnosed with a cyst on his left temporal lobe, which can affect memory and behavior, and was treated with pharmaceuticals. Aguilar has repeatedly referred to the “tumor” in his statements to police, saying that it produced rage attacks.

The first of the two murders to which Aguilar has confessed took place on May 25, 2013. In the early hours of that morning, he picked up Yenny Sofía Revollo Tuirán, a 40-year-old single mother with two children, in the center of Bilbao. He then took her to his gym on Máximo Aguirre street, where he tied her up and then killed her. Police say he took photographs of himself with the victim’s naked body, which he then dismembered, removing fingerprints and her breast implants. Part of the remains were scattered in garbage bins or thrown into the river that runs through the city, some pieces he burnt, and others were stored in his apartment and in the gymnasium.

In 2010 Aguilar was diagnosed with a cyst on his left temporal lobe, which can affect memory and behavior

A week later, Aguirre returned to the center of Bilbao, and in the early hours of June 2, picked up Maureen Ada Otuya, a 29-year-old Nigerian woman, and took her to his gym. After having sex with her, he then tied and gagged his victim and for the next nine hours repeatedly beat and tortured her. Finally, at 3pm, she was able to reach a window, from which she called for help.

When police arrived, they found Aguirre covered in blood, and Otuya unconscious. She died two days later. After searching the premises, police found several bags containing the remains of Revollo Tuirán, along with a variety of weapons, as well as pornographic videos and photographs.

http://ep00.epimg.net/elpais/imagenes/2014/08/27/inenglish/1409133067_882500_1409145319_sumario_grande.jpg
One of the victims of the bogus kung-fu master, Maureen Ada Otuya.

Police later discovered that Aguirre maintained a series of relationships with several female students. One, Ana, told police that she was Aguirre’s novice, and that he had “taught her what life is about.”

The police discovered that Aguirre was often violent to the women he had relationships with. One woman described him as “arrogant, manipulative, and selfish” and that he ran the gym “like a sect.”

José Miguel Fernández López de Uralde, the lawyer representing the father and brother of Otuya, say that Aguirre “enjoyed having sadistic sexual relations with defenseless women, beating them and then taking photographs.” Police say that they discovered photographs of a naked woman who had been bound and blindfolded standing in front of the body of Revollo Tuirán. Initially, the police believed that Aguirre might have murdered other women.

When I realized she was dead, I tried to get rid of her. I had a sense of reality mixed with loss of control”

“We came across this killer by chance,” said a member of the team investigating the case last year. “It was not the result of an investigation. In that case we would have been under intense pressure in the knowledge that there was a killer out there and that we had to track him down. We are calm because he is in custody and cannot kill anyone else, but we have to look into his past and find out when he first killed and whether he did so on more occasions.”

Police have tried to build up a picture of Aguilar’s life since 1994 when he returned from China, where he claims to have trained at the Shaolin Temple in Henan province. Aguilar’s 20-year career in martial arts seems to have been a largely commercial venture, rather than a spiritual one.

In 1996, after failing to set up a Shaolin franchise in Berlin, he focused his energy on becoming the official representative of the order in Spain. By the late 1990s, his business was flourishing and he became a familiar face on television and in newspapers and specialist magazines. But former pupils say he demanded obedience and money from those who had trained under him and sought to go their own way. By now, he had changed his name to Huang C. Aguilar and began styling himself as a Shaolin master.

But the Shaolin Temple Spain, the only center in the country recognized by the Shaolin Temple in China, has confirmed that Aguilar is neither a Shaolin master nor a monk. Shi Fu Carlos Álvarez, a master and instructor at Shaolin Temple Spain, said that Aguilar “lacks all of the requisites to be a monk. Unfortunately, many Chinese certificates are obtained in an irregular manner,” he added.

Aguilar’s 20-year career in martial arts seems to have been a commercial, rather than spiritual, venture

Aguilar now faces two 25-year murder sentences, and from his comments to police, could be looking to reduce his sentence by claiming some kind of diminished responsibility on medical grounds. He has repeatedly referred to the cyst on his brain when talking to the police, saying that in December 2008, while on a climbing expedition at 5,500 meters, he was overcome by a feeling of imminent death. “From that day on, my thinking has slowed down, I lose my train of thought, and it feels as though my brain is stopping.”

He told police that his first victim began to “rave” when he took her back to the gym, causing him to suffer “an attack of uncontrolled rage” due to the “tumor” on his brain. “When I realized that she was dead, I tried to get rid of her. I had flashes of perception, and a sense of reality mixed with loss of control. This has been going on for four years.”

Jorge García-Gasco Lominchar, the lawyer representing Revollo Tuirán’s brother and one of her children, describes Aguilar as “messianic.” But he argues that Aguilar committed the crimes to which he has admitted because he lost control, not his mind, and that the cyst on his brain had nothing to do with his actions. Tamara Martínez, the lawyer representing a private prosecution on behalf of the Clara Campoamor women’s group, also dismisses the idea that Aguilar is in any way mentally unfit to stand trial. “He is very clever, very calculating, and very manipulative. He knows how to connect with people, and took advantage of his reputation and television appearances,” says Martínez.

Francisco Javier Beramendi, Aguilar’s lawyer, has refused to comment on whether he will be defending his client on medical grounds. “I never talk about my cases, and so far there has been no definitive resolution here,” he said.

[breeze]

Ngokfei, christian priests and pastors strive to follow rules like that as well. Noone can ever be born to adhere to these principles and never violate them. Its a daily lifestyle commitment. To sit here and dismiss modern shaolin because of the things you posted is indeed absurd. It happens in all religions not just shaolin.

I see nothing wrong with Shaolin promoting martial arts in general or even commercializing it. Money is a need for survival in the year 2013. You said it martial arts is a business in the west as well.

"Noone can ever be born to adhere to these principles and never violate them"? --> How do you want to know? Just because it doesn't appear in your horizon?
Also there is a difference between making a small fault in your personal Buddhist practice and installing a whole system of falseness.

"Money is a need for survival in the year 2013." --> Money is not a need for survival. Fertile land, clean water, sun and rain is a need for survival,- and maybe in addition a good community. Also 2013/2014 there are plenty of people, who willingly live almost without money and try to further develope ways of living without money. They are obviously too few, so they are ignored by the multitude. Of course it is much less comfortable to join them instead of letting money rule your life.

Do you need money to practice Shaolin kungfu? At Shaolin temple there are also masters who already have been there, when the temple had no money, who have always been practicing kungfu and never sold their art. They are also very few.

It is not that you don't have any choice. It is your choice, where you want to belong to.

[GeneChing]

Spain: 'Shaolin Kung Fu Master' Juan Carlos Aguilar facing life in jail for torturing and dismembering women (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/spain-shaolin-kung-fu-master-juan-carlos-aguilar-facing-life-jail-torturing-dismembering-1496203)

Gareth Platt
By Gareth Platt
April 13, 2015 21:11 BST
18 12

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1433405/juan-carlos-aguilar.jpg
Juan Carlos Aguilar

The trial of a self-styled 'Shaolin Master' accused of torturing and killing two women in Spain is to begin on Friday 17 April 2015.

Juan Carlos Aguilar, who previously ran a martial arts gym in Bilbao, stands accused of the murders of Nigerian Maureen Ada Otuya and Colombian Jenny Sofia Rebollo.

Aguilar, who claimed to have trained with Chinese monks and made several appearances on Spanish television, was arrested by Basque police in June 2013 while allegedly carrying out a savage attack on Otuya at his gym, Zen 4.

After luring Otuya to his gym, he reportedly tied and gagged her before proceeding to beat and torture her for several hours. However, his victim was finally able to crawl to the window and alert the police.

When officers arrived they found Otuya unconscious and Aguilar covered in blood. The woman, who worked as a prostitute, later died in hospital.

After his arrest, Aguilar also confessed to murdering Rebollo, whose remains were found scattered in the gymnasium as well as in his apartment. Police claim Aguilar took photos with his victim's body before dismembering it, removing her breast implants in the process.

Although some sections of the Spanish press originally claimed Rebollo was a prostitute, this has been vehemently denied by the victim's friends, who claim she worked as a hairdresser.

Police have said that Aguilar maintained a series of relationships with female students, while the lawyer representing Otuya's family has claimed he "enjoyed having sadistic sexual relations with defenseless women, beating them and then taking photographs."

The jury will be chosen on Friday, and then Aguilar will give his own testimony before the court. Spanish prosecutors have demanded that he be sentenced to 40 years in jail.


I should really dig up a pic with Juan. I know I must have one somewhere.

[GeneChing]

...and I haven't killed anyone.....


...yet.


Does one have to kill people in order to be called a fake/fraud by Shaolin?

[David Jamieson]

I didn't know that the institution would be sullied by the errant actions of 1 out of thousands of adherents.

I mean, if that was true, the Vatican would've been closed ages ago for all it's deviant priests and bishops and cardinals.

As for Shaolin, there's plenty of orange robed fake asses out there right now! due dilligence and you can't buy wisdom and all that. :)

[GeneChing]

I trained alongside him at Shaolin. We even went to the Dengfeng Sanda fights together. He was extremely skilled as a martial artist - blindingly fast, well rooted, and could even handle the acrobatics. Prior to this incident, I would have called him my friend. I was completely shocked when this story broke. He had a dark side, but I never imagined it was this dark. A lot of martial artists have a dark side. This case is incredibly extreme - unprecedented in many ways.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Posts deleted. Time to move on from this.


mickey

[David Jamieson]

I trained alongside him at Shaolin. We even went to the Dengfeng Sanda fights together. He was extremely skilled as a martial artist - blindingly fast, well rooted, and could even handle the acrobatics. Prior to this incident, I would have called him my friend. I was completely shocked when this story broke. He had a dark side, but I never imagined it was this dark. A lot of martial artists have a dark side. This case is incredibly extreme - unprecedented in many ways.

Exactly. He never had any intention of doing anything but with what he was taught except serve his dark side. It's not anyone's fault that the guy was ultimately a failure, anyone can trick anyone into believing anything when it gets right down to it.

Being a Freemason, there are several instances of fellas joining in, believing themselves to be regarded as something and then going on to commit murder. These people are outliers and all institutions have them and deal with them.

No method, no system, no institution will ever change anyone on the inside lest they let that and want that to happen. All methods, all system and all institutions, being only constructs are subject to exploitation such as this.

At least, this is my point of view. I do not believe there is any such thing as a perfect human. Just people who try harder to get there. :)

[curenado]

""Money is a need for survival in the year 2013."

Friends of the "Harvard business" abbot.....just because it's said with righteous indignation doesn't make it anything but street corner.
Besides, they're not talking rice and medicine money here? P-r-o-s-t-i-t-u-t-i-o-n

[boxerbilly]

So that old myth about the bad guys never being able to advance enough, etc because it is just not in them or being weeded out before they learn anything of real value was just that. A myth.

Mr. Jamieson I was DeMolay. My Grandfather was a 32. Reason I was DeMolay. I personally never cared for it. He enjoyed very much being a Mason.

[David Jamieson]

So that old myth about the bad guys never being able to advance enough, etc because it is just not in them or being weeded out before they learn anything of real value was just that. A myth.

Mr. Jamieson I was DeMolay. My Grandfather was a 32. Reason I was DeMolay. I personally never cared for it. He enjoyed very much being a Mason.

Cool. I really enjoy being a mason. It's quite interesting and a lot of fun really.

And yes, some of the worst people have pretty high level skill. Many examples of that. :D

[Jimbo]

So that old myth about the bad guys never being able to advance enough, etc because it is just not in them or being weeded out before they learn anything of real value was just that. A myth.

IMO, that myth developed mainly in The West. It is very much B.S. Throughout history, many people who walked the 'dark path' had very high MA skills. I've also known a few and known about many more. I mentioned a Hung Gar master in Taiwan who was the fastest kicker I ever saw/faced in a thread on the main forum. He was a gangster. Blatantly so. He's only one example. In fact, among many Chinese in Taiwan, and elsewhere, Chinese MA have a bad reputation as being connected to gangsters or bad people, or simply 'unrefined/uneducated/unsavory' people in general. Yet they have no qualms about sending their kids to TKD class, or to judo, karate, kendo, etc. kinda blows away the image people have of Chinese stating that 'Chinese kung fu is the best in the world.'

Likewise, in Japan, many samurai warriors were big-time a-holes. Yes, I say this, even though some of my own ancestors were samurai...whether some of them fell into this category or not, I don't know. And by the time Jigoro Kano was developing judo, jujutsu had a bad reputation as mainly an art of bullies/gangsters/gamblers.

MA being what they are, have always been associated with a rough crowd. I'm willing to bet that even many of the Buddhist monks associated with MA were not all that peaceful, by Western standards. The idea that MA training weeded out the bad people (or the bad qualities in people) through discipline was probably an idea that began with Kano's ideal vision of his new judo. Then such ideas were marketed to the West to relate to all (Asian) MA, and really grew to epic proportions as a selling point from there.

[GeneChing]

mickey, you didn't need to delete those posts. I didn't have any issues with what you were saying or think you were being overly argumentative. We were just discussing stuff. It's a pretty weird situation for sure.

Well, I searched several of my Shaolin photo albums from trips when I crossed paths with Juan Carlos and didn't find a single photo with him. I'm beginning to wonder if we ever took a photo together now. It was long before selfies were a thing. All of those photos are prints. This was prior to digital cameras, or rather just when they were coming out as I was late to switch over from film. I only pulled my better photos for my albums. They are in shameless disarray as I have gone back and pillaged them for articles over the years. Beyond that I have several boxes of stored prints. There might a pic in those, but going back through them would be a Herculean task and I have plenty of more pressing duties. Is it weird for me to want to go back and find a pic with Juan Carlos? I don't know. This is really uncharted territory for me as Juan Carlos is the first prostitute murderer I have known personally. :confused:

[mickey]

Greetings,

Gene, I thought it was best to simply stand back and allow for those at Songshan Shaolin to make take their own stand, if they have the courage to. I often thought about going there. That trip is not much of an interest any more.

So you cannot find a photo of you and Aguilar? What a coincidence. Last night I caught the distinct traveling stench of burning photos. The miasma lasted for several minutes. I noticed that the scent seemed to pause each time I said, "Hentai", and it grew much stronger in odor each time I said, "The knives are in the kitchen."


mickey

[bawang]

IMO, that myth developed mainly in The West. It is very much B.S. Throughout history, many people who walked the 'dark path' had very high MA skills. I've also known a few and known about many more. I mentioned a Hung Gar master in Taiwan who was the fastest kicker I ever saw/faced in a thread on the main forum. He was a gangster.

shaolin temple had plenty of gangsters but i never heard of crazy next lvl sh1t like this. this is gweilo problem only.

wat rustled my jimmies is this guy targeted african prostitutes.


also in ancient times the jianghu can enforce itself. modern commercial kung fu is a magnet for crazy and psychos. its dat easy power and control

[Jimbo]

shaolin temple had plenty of gangsters but i never heard of crazy next lvl sh1t like this. this is gweilo problem only.

wat rustled my jimmies is this guy targeted african prostitutes.


also in ancient times the jianghu can enforce itself. modern commercial kung fu is a magnet for crazy and psychos. its dat easy power and control

I completely agree with you that this guy is way beyond f'd up.

[Kellen Bassette]

Is it weird for me to want to go back and find a pic with Juan Carlos? I don't know. This is really uncharted territory for me as Juan Carlos is the first prostitute murderer I have known personally. :confused:

Nah man, your weird for plenty of other reasons...:p

If I had a pic with him you can be sure I would post it...hooker/murder stories are always good conversation.

[bawang]

if kung fu fraud can be psycho cereal killers somebody needs to chekc jake maces basement

lol

[boxerbilly]

mickey, you didn't need to delete those posts. I didn't have any issues with what you were saying or think you were being overly argumentative. We were just discussing stuff. It's a pretty weird situation for sure.
This is really uncharted territory for me as Juan Carlos is the first prostitute murderer I have known personally. :confused:

As opposed to all the regular murderer's you know? Really, I would not give it much thought.

Seems I've come across a few social misfits of late. All I can do is keep an eye on the news and wait.

[mawali]

All power to the bawang!
Tru dat! Commercialization brings out the nutcases because the have the lure (baiit) of a commercial "product" that can be dangled to achieve a result, albeit negative. Sadly, the innocent suffer.

May they REst in PEace!

[GeneChing]

Nah man, your weird for plenty of other reasons...:p

If I had a pic with him you can be sure I would post it...hooker/murder stories are always good conversation.
Um...thanks for that?


As opposed to all the regular murderer's you know?
Well, yeah, actually. I know a lot of people with blood on their hands. I have some acquaintances in the joint for murder, one out for accessory, and that doesn't even count veterans I know who had to kill someone in wars (that's not really murder, at least not in the legal sense). I choose that wording very intentionally.

[boxerbilly]

Got it. Coming from a family of Marines. Fully understood.

[GeneChing]

I was thinking about editing my comment above because I didn't want to come off too dark. Martial arts has an immense dark side and as a reporter, I try to observe all of it evenly. This situation with Juan Carlos however, it's chilling. Like I said, before this, I would have called him a friend. We trained next to each other, went to events in Dengfeng together, drank beer together. I wouldn't say we were besties or even that close, but laowai tend to hang out with laowai in Shaolin, especially back in the late 90s when there weren't that many laowai there. We never corresponded after that. I heard about him from reading some of the Euro martial arts mags that used to cross my desk from time to time, but never gave him much of a second thought until now.

But yeah, this whole situation has me freaked out on a very personal level.

[boxerbilly]

I was thinking about editing my comment above because I didn't want to come off too dark. Martial arts has an immense dark side and as a reporter, I try to observe all of it evenly. This situation with Juan Carlos however, it's chilling. Like I said, before this, I would have called him a friend. We trained next to each other, went to events in Dengfeng together, drank beer together. I wouldn't say we were besties or even that close, but laowai tend to hang out with laowai in Shaolin, especially back in the late 90s when there weren't that many laowai there. We never corresponded after that. I heard about him from reading some of the Euro martial arts mags that used to cross my desk from time to time, but never gave him much of a second thought until now.

But yeah, this whole situation has me freaked out on a very personal level.

Really sorry it is tormenting you. I can offer no help there. My only suggestion is forget it if you can.

Personally, I could think of nothing worse than ending another's life. It is not something I like to dwell on. I think most life is precious. Not this guy so much. Or people similar. But as a whole. I love people. All kinds. There is good everywhere.

[GeneChing]

Tripping me out is more like it. I suppose there is that nagging sentiment that maybe I could have turned Juan Carlos to the side of good, but frankly, I didn't know him that well. There's also that disbelief that I didn't see this in him, as I'm usually a decent judge of character. Makes me wonder if any of my other associates will start murdering prostitutes. Well, not really. But still, very trippy.

Many years ago, one of my dad's friends killed his wife after he caught her cheating. My dad used to visit him in jail every once in a while. I remember him, and my dad's reaction to it all - the shock of it. It's kind of like that, just shocking.

[boxerbilly]

I to think I am a decent judge of character. Sometimes I am wrong. It happens.

[Jimbo]

Tripping me out is more like it. I suppose there is that nagging sentiment that maybe I could have turned Juan Carlos to the side of good, but frankly, I didn't know him that well. There's also that disbelief that I didn't see this in him, as I'm usually a decent judge of character. Makes me wonder if any of my other associates will start murdering prostitutes. Well, not really. But still, very trippy.

Many years ago, one of my dad's friends killed his wife after he caught her cheating. My dad used to visit him in jail every once in a while. I remember him, and my dad's reaction to it all - the shock of it. It's kind of like that, just shocking.

Gene,

There's nothing you could have done to turn him around. People like him are psychopaths; there's a good chance he was born bad. There are good parents who have raised people who turned out evil.

During WWII, when Japanese-Americans were incarcerated in relocation camps, a white couple kindly took care of my maternal grandfather's flower shop in Glendale, CA, until my grandparents could return. This kept my grandparents, my mom and her siblings from losing their business and their assets (they lived in back of the business), as many Japanese-Americans lost everything during the war. The wife was wheelchair-bound. True to their word, they kept everything safe and intact. Well, that couple's son was named Caryl Chessman, a lifelong criminal who later became a notorious kidnapper, robber and rapist dubbed the "red light bandit". I'm very happy that my mom's family was never on his radar. He was executed in 1960.

My point in sharing this is that some people are just wired wrong from the start, and would have ended up that way regardless. We can only hope we can be a positive influence in our own lives, and also for those who may need our help that we CAN reach.

[Kellen Bassette]

Kind of disappointed with all the people calling him a fraud. Sure, he's a horrible person one would want to dissociate with now, but how does that make him a fraud? It seems by Gene's account anyway, he was trained legitimately. Words mean things. Just because you don't want someone to be associated with something doesn't mean that they weren't. Being a decent human being has very little to do with training/teaching Kung Fu.

[RenDaHai]

Kind of disappointed with all the people calling him a fraud. Sure, he's a horrible person one would want to dissociate with now, but how does that make him a fraud? It seems by Gene's account anyway, he was trained legitimately. Words mean things. Just because you don't want someone to be associated with something doesn't mean that they weren't. Being a decent human being has very little to do with training/teaching Kung Fu.

Yes, I get your point, but he wore robes and had a huge buddha statue in his place of training. Gong Fu is a much misused term these days, it means self cultivation and if we look at it historically the Song Confucianists used it to mean specifically MORAL cultivation. It retains this aspect in traditional Shaolin culture.

He clearly represented himself as teaching Shaolin Culture with specifically buddhist overtones. In this way he was a fraud. It is not necessary to be a paragon of virtue to teach Shaolin Gong Fu but there are limits to acceptable vice.

If he just claimed to teach Martial Arts we would not call him a fraud. He represented himself as embodying all Shaolin Culture. Shaolin Gong Fu cannot be separated from 仁義. Clearly these two words were not written on his heart.

[Kellen Bassette]

Yes, I get your point, but he wore robes and had a huge buddha statue in his place of training. Gong Fu is a much misused term these days, it means self cultivation and if we look at it historically the Song Confucianists used it to mean specifically MORAL cultivation. It retains this aspect in traditional Shaolin culture.

He clearly represented himself as teaching Shaolin Culture with specifically buddhist overtones. In this way he was a fraud. It is not necessary to be a paragon of virtue to teach Shaolin Gong Fu but there are limits to acceptable vice.

If he just claimed to teach Martial Arts we would not call him a fraud. He represented himself as embodying all Shaolin Culture. Shaolin Gong Fu cannot be separated from 仁義. Clearly these two words were not written on his heart.

I get that it wasn't very Buddhist what he did, but if a Catholic priest molests an alter boy and someone says, "well he was a fraud, not a real priest," that don't exactly fly now does it?
I don't know anything about him, seems he was known more for MA than the religious aspect, although it's certainly not unusual for elements of that to be packaged in with martial arts, regardless of the character of the teacher...I just think it's disingenuous to say he wasn't a Shaolin man, just because he turned out to be evil.
Seems like an unethical revising of history to me.

[boxerbilly]

I get that it wasn't very Buddhist what he did, but if a Catholic priest molests an alter boy and someone says, "well he was a fraud, not a real priest," that don't exactly fly now does it?
I don't know anything about him, seems he was known more for MA than the religious aspect, although it's certainly not unusual for elements of that to be packaged in with martial arts, regardless of the character of the teacher...I just think it's disingenuous to say he wasn't a Shaolin man, just because he turned out to be evil.
Seems like an unethical revising of history to me.

Nicely put.

[bawang]

most likely the guy always had urgues and decided to act on them and go YOLO when he found out about his tumor

way back when i saw his youtube video caressing a knife i knew the man was coocoo

[Kellen Bassette]

way back when i saw his youtube video caressing a knife i knew the man was coocoo

Yeah...I saw that...pretty tell-tale there.....

[David Jamieson]

Kind of disappointed with all the people calling him a fraud. Sure, he's a horrible person one would want to dissociate with now, but how does that make him a fraud? It seems by Gene's account anyway, he was trained legitimately. Words mean things. Just because you don't want someone to be associated with something doesn't mean that they weren't. Being a decent human being has very little to do with training/teaching Kung Fu.

All institutions developed on a construct of doctrine or dogma or rule sets will disavow anyone who has become a member and then fallen away. This is revealing that the person failed the construct. The construct still seeks to have people who subscribe to it's forms. People will fall away. The church defrocks, temples disrobe etc.

People who act contrary to the institutions they claim to serve are left by the wayside. Therefore, he is of course a fraud because he was outside of the expected rule set that he claimed to abide by. trained properly or not, you have to stay the course or you are not what you claim you are. It is that simple.

[curenado]

There's also that disbelief that I didn't see this in him, as I'm usually a decent judge of character."

You seem to be. You just volunteered this one positive regard and not being female didn't have those alarms.

When a Catholic priest dies of aids, they write "occupation carpenter" on the death certificate.

But I never met a shao lin that had that self made tiny sickness. I'd have killed it myself who cares?

[Kellen Bassette]

All institutions developed on a construct of doctrine or dogma or rule sets will disavow anyone who has become a member and then fallen away. This is revealing that the person failed the construct. The construct still seeks to have people who subscribe to it's forms. People will fall away. The church defrocks, temples disrobe etc.

People who act contrary to the institutions they claim to serve are left by the wayside. Therefore, he is of course a fraud because he was outside of the expected rule set that he claimed to abide by. trained properly or not, you have to stay the course or you are not what you claim you are. It is that simple.

A fraud is someone who claims to be what he never was, not someone who veered off the path and fell out of good standing with an organization.
It's self serving and delusional to say he was never part of Shaolin and that's what the accusations of fraud are really about.

[RenDaHai]

A fraud is someone who claims to be what he never was, not someone who veered off the path and fell out of good standing with an organization.
It's self serving and delusional to say he was never part of Shaolin and that's what the accusations of fraud are really about.

I see what your saying, its unfair to apply the rule retroactively.

I mean, a catholic priest who molested children, I WOULD call him a fraud. I think a lot of people would.

But I see what you say, we do have to take time into account, and whether they fell from grace or were never graced.

I.e after he murdered someone and continued teaching, at THAT point he was a fraud. But he may have always been in his heart, this we can't tell, though murder of this kind is such a drastic fall that I suspect he was never genuine.

Certainly at the end he was a fraud, maybe he wasn't always.

[GeneChing]

As for Juan Carlos being a fraud, well, that's a fair question. He did posture himself as a Shaolin monk, one of several non-Chinese individuals who boast such a claim (although a cursory search reveals that he hasn't been mentioned on our Non-Chinese-Shaolin-Monks (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?65109-Non-Chinese-Shaolin-Monks) thread). There are also plenty of Chinese that make this claim, but the non-Chinese are a bit more interesting because the Abbot has said there were no non-Chinese monks, but then gives a few like Yanfan (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?48656-Yanfan-(Franco-Testini)) face, so there's some ambiguity. Here's what I can say about this. Juan Carlos definitely had good martial skills. He propounded himself as a spiritual adherent (I can't remember if he ever claimed to be Buddhist, but he probably did). This, as we can clearly see now, was fraudulent. He trained under the De generation (31st) at the Wushuguan, as most of us laowai did in the mid 90s. When the Abbot took over, the De generation were largely overlooked as the Abbot is a Yong (33rd) (note that the Abbot has begun to rectify this by giving face to the De and Xing generation in recent years). I don't remember if Juan Carlos ever discipled under anyone. I don't believe the abbot ever acknowledged Juan Carlos as a monk. That seems unlikely given that he was more closely associated to the De/Xing gen like me. But who knows?

Here's another news item en espanol:

Publicado el Lunes, 20 de Abril del 2015

La vecina que denunció: "La joven pidió socorro, tenía la cara angustiada y golpeaba la puerta del gimnasio" (http://www.entornointeligente.com/articulo/5700899/La-vecina-que-denuncio-La-joven-pidio-socorro-tenia-la-cara-angustiada-y-golpeaba-la-puerta-del-gimnasio-)

La Informacion .com / BILBAO, 20 8EUROPA PRESS)

La vecina que alertó a la Ertzaintza para que acudiera al gimnasio Zen de Bilbao tras ver cómo un hombre obligaba a entrar en su interior a una mujer, ha asegurado que Maureen Ada Otuya "pidió ayuda, auxilio y socorro" y presentaba la cara "angustiada" mientras golpeaba el cristal de la puerta del establecimiento.

Durante su declaración en la segunda jornada del juicio que se sigue contra Juan Carlos Aguilar, el 'falso monje shaolin', por el asesinato de esta mujer y el de Yenny Rebollo, la mujer que dio la voz de alarma ha declarado tras un biombo.

Según su relato, sobre las tres y media o cuatro de la tarde del 2 de junio de 2013, escuchó gritos y vio cómo la joven nigeriana pedía "ayuda, auxilio y socorro".

"Tenía la cara de angustia, daba golpes en la cristalera de la puerta del gimnasio", ha comentado. Según ha añadido, Juan Carlos Aguilar la "arrastró" hacia el interior del local. Seguidamente, alertó a la Ertzaintza.

(EuropaPress)


Google translated version:

Posted on Monday, April 20, 2015

The neighbor who complained: "She called for help, was the anguished face and hitting the gym door"

The Information .com / BILBAO, 20 8EUROPA PRESS)

The neighbor who alerted the Ertzaintza for him to come to Zen gym Bilbao after seeing a man forced to get inside a woman, said Maureen Ada Otuya "asked for help, aid, relief" and had the face "distraught "while hitting the glass of the front door.

During his testimony on the second day of judgment filed against Juan Carlos Aguilar, the 'fake shaolin monk', for the murder of this woman and Yenny Rebollo, the woman who sounded the alarm has declared behind a screen.

According to his account, about half past three or four in the afternoon of June 2, 2013, he heard screams and saw the young Nigerian called "Help, help and relief."

"He had the face of trouble, thumped on the glass door of the gym," he commented. According added, Juan Carlos Aguilar's "dragged" into the premises. He then alerted the Ertzaintza.

(EuropaPress)

[curenado]

That right there is just kuh-reepy as it gets. Right out of a "wrong turn" movie.

[David Jamieson]

A fraud is someone who claims to be what he never was, not someone who veered off the path and fell out of good standing with an organization.
It's self serving and delusional to say he was never part of Shaolin and that's what the accusations of fraud are really about.

Not exactly, fraud is deception by another name.

One is being fraudulent by wearing a monks robes and conducting oneself on the exact opposite end of the behavioural spectrum of the expected behaviours of a monk.

Are you implying that all of Shaolin is therefore a failure because of this fallen one?

[curenado]

No not at all that is obvious

The juvenile idiocy of pressing semantics to the carpet in an argument everyone already knows the answer to is masturbatory.

There is a madness of that here, as if people think that by their well oiled words they change anything.
Like speech practicing for a holes

[boxerbilly]

No not at all that is obvious

The juvenile idiocy of pressing semantics to the carpet in an argument everyone already knows the answer to is masturbatory.

There is a madness of that here, as if people think that by their well oiled words they change anything.
Like speech practicing for a holes

WORD GAMES. I am not going to point any fingers. But my low self see's a lot that think that are high and mighty.

[mickey]

Greetings,

After deleting my posts here, I took another look at Aguilar by way of the videos he posted up.

I got the distinct feeling that there was sincerity in following the spiritual path but he did not really get the training for it. His fall may have been his inability to deal with his urges and his murderous conduct may have been a reflection of this and an expression of his frustration, shame and blame as a result of the realization that he could never achieve the goal he may have set for himself. That realization may have been enough to unhinge him.

By the way, you do not suddenly become a psychopath. It had to be there all along. And if he does have that diagnosis, there may be more people murdered over the years, long before he went to Shaolin.

mickey

[David Jamieson]

Greetings,

After deleting my posts here, I took another look at Aguilar by way of the videos he posted up.

I got the distinct feeling that there was sincerity in following the spiritual path but he did not really get the training for it. His fall may have been his inability to deal with his urges and his murderous conduct may have been a reflection of this and an expression of his frustration, shame and blame as a result of the realization that he could never achieve the goal he may have set for himself. That realization may have been enough to unhinge him.

By the way, you do not suddenly become a psychopath. It had to be there all along. And if he does have that diagnosis, there may be more people murdered over the years, long before he went to Shaolin.

mickey

There's a lot of items included in the id a psychopath list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_Checklist#Items

so much so, I am not convinced that anyone knows how it starts, where it starts or why a person chooses to be that or is born that or becomes that through some bad diet? routine? experience?

Psychopathy and sociopathy are regarded as personality disorders.

I personally do not put a lot of stock into psychological interpretations of anything.
Behaviours are the measure of our lives after all. No one remembers you for what you thought, only what you did (even if you wrote down your thoughts, that is something you "did" ) :)

[Kellen Bassette]

You know Gene....it would make for an interesting interview.....just saying....

[curenado]

I think interviewing monsters is passe now

It's supposed to be "commie training" not individual and uncontrolled as it gets.
The article wanted is something quasi lurid from a former companion with "tramp stamp" in caps across the forehead.
"Sex is not with him because he didn't fit in. So fit in and sex will be with you" - that's actually pretty much about as far as they go...not to demoralize you any further just haha what the early bird will do. A "sexy ma is all like life gaurds and coaches and you could be too!" is the response to this over boiled fellows 15 minutes

[GeneChing]

There's a good English article here (it's copy-protected so you must follow this link) (http://spanishnewstoday.com/false-shaolin-murder-trial-in-bilbao-attracts-huge-media-interest_21212-a.html#.VTaJHJMbO_s).


You know Gene....it would make for an interesting interview.....just saying.... True, but it's highly unlikely I will go there.

[bawang]

shi deyang is prolly really embarrased by now lol

[curenado]

"True, but it's highly unlikely I will go there."

Oh come on, be a sport
9411

(If anybody runs "Tramp stamp lucky to be alive and ooh always knew, but available now! Smell me!" - I would at least hope to get a card or line entry in some secret journal.

[boxerbilly]

Gene, I would put him behind you and not look back ! Thankfully you guys parted ways long ago.

[lkfmdc]

http://spanishnewstoday.com/false-shaolin-murder-trial-in-bilbao-attracts-huge-media-interest_21212-a.html#.VTbh7dJVhHx

[David Jamieson]

* creepy music starts*

Hey, do you think he had the zen sickness?

[GeneChing]

Inicio > Internacionales | Publicado el Jueves, 23 de Abril del 2015

ESPAÑA: Maureen Ada Otuya sufrió estrangulamiento, pero dudan si existió ensañamiento (http://www.entornointeligente.com/articulo/5747978/ESPANA-Maureen-Ada-Otuya-sufrio-estrangulamiento-pero-dudan-si-existio-ensanamiento-23042015)

El Mundo / La tercera jornada del juicio contra Juan Carlos Aguilar ha permitido demostrar, según los médicos forenses que están declarando que Maureen Ada Otuya , fue estrangulada y golpeada por el falso 'shaolin'. Durante sus comparecencias los médicos forenses están mostrando imágenes de la otra mujer cuyo restos fueron encontrados en el gimnasio del falso shaolin Yeny Sofía Rebollo y que fueron localizados en siete bolsas de basura en su gimnasio como en la vivienda de Aguilar. Los expertos concluyen en el informe que el cuerpo de la joven fue diseccionado de manera precisa, labor que requirió mucho tiempo y para lo que Aguilar habría empleado herramientas contundentes como sierras o algún tipo de hacha.

Los expertos también han detallado como Maureen Ada Otuya , la mujer nigeriana que fue localizada inconsciente y atada en un camastro tras la irrupción de la policía en el gimnasio de Aguilar, recibió fuertes golpes tanto en la cabeza como en la cara y en la zona del hígado. Tanto la Fiscalía como el resto de las acusaciones intentan demostrar si existió ensañamiento. El primero de los forenses que ha declarado ante el juez ha sido preguntado por el jurado popular por si su muerte se registró tras "un sufrimiento excesivo" a lo que ha asegurado que no.

Las vistas de este juicio podrían concluir mañana con la calificación de las partes. El falso 'shaolin' mantiene la misma actitud que los días anteriores con los ojos cerrados y ausente de lo que se está mostrando en esta dura sesión durante la cual se están desgranando los detalles y circunstancias en las que fallecieron Maureen Ada Otuya y Yeny Sofía Rebollo Rebollo cuyo asesinato reconoció el propio Aguilar. "Lo reconozco todo" , confesó el falso 'shaolin'.


Con Información de El Mundo

Goog translation

Home> International | Published on Thursday, April 23, 2015

SPAIN: Maureen Ada Otuya suffered strangulation, but doubt if there was cruelty

World / The third day of the trial of Juan Carlos Aguilar has demonstrated, according to forensic doctors who are stating that Otuya Ada Maureen, was strangled and beaten by the false 'Shaolin'. During his appearances coroners are showing images of the other woman whose remains were found in the gymnasium of false shaolin Yeny Sofia Rebollo and were located in seven bags of garbage in your gym and housing Aguilar. Experts conclude in the report that the body of the girl was dissected accurately, work that required much time and what would Aguilar employee blunt tools such as saws or any kind of ax.

Experts have also detailed as Maureen Ada Otuya, the Nigerian woman who was located unconscious and tied in a cot after police raid at the gym Aguilar, was severely beaten in both head and face and area liver. Both the prosecution and the rest of the charges are trying to prove whether there was cruelty. The first forensic they said before the judge has been asked by the jury if his death was recorded after "excessive suffering" to what has ensured that no.

The views of this trial could conclude tomorrow with the qualification of the parties. The false 'Shaolin' maintains the same attitude than previous days with eyes closed and away from what is being shown in this tough session during which they are shelling the details and circumstances in which Ada Maureen died Otuya and Yeny Sofia Rebollo Rebollo whose murder recognized Aguilar own. "I admit it," confessed the false 'Shaolin'.


With Info World

A Spanish-speaking Shaolin friend who has been following the trail tells me:

Today, after 4 sessions of deliberations, the public jury of 5 men and 4 women found him guilty by unanimous decision of the two murders, and then 7 out of 9 found the second killing (the African woman) did not include rage!??!?

I cannot believe this last part, just because she did not die on his hands, but the next day in the hospital, they are saying there was no rage involved?

So now we need to wait for the verdict... 20~30 years more or less....

[Kellen Bassette]

Both the prosecution and the rest of the charges are trying to prove whether there was cruelty.

How is there not cruelty involved in murder? Did he kill her with kindness? More silliness from governments trying to punish the same crimes differently by motive...

[curenado]

Yeah I'm pretty sure malice and cruelty are self evident

[GeneChing]

He'll pay even more in karma.


http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/hk/sDSn8L-6gbYOYVDJmZ06YEu3jv/www.thelocal.es/userdata/images/article/w468/468x273x576fbe48938e074ad98a788ba1fec6adba67a2dff7 925eb51ca6ef3408b90ef2.jpg.pagespeed.ic.dI51e80MEn 6gbE_CqmIK.jpg
Aguilar in a still from a YouTube video from the channel of his Buddhist monastry "Ocean of Tranquility". Screen grab: YouTube

Shaolin slayer jailed for brutal double murder (http://www.thelocal.es/20150430/fake-shaolin-slayer-sentenced)
Published: 30 Apr 2015 16:09 GMT+02:00

A fake shaolin monk has been sentenced to 38 years in prison for the brutal murder of two women in Bilbao.

Juan Carlos Aguilar murdered Colombian Jenny Sofía Rebollo, 40 and Maureen Ada Otuya, 29, in May and June 2013 in his gym.

The self-proclaimed monk picked up Rebollo, a mother of two, on May 25, drove her to his gym where he killed her then cut her body, hiding pieces in the gym and his flat as well as burning part of the remains.

On June 2nd he picked up Otuya and took her to the gym, where he strangled and attacked her. A neighbour heard screams and alerted the police, who found the woman unconscious. She died 48 hours later in hospital.

During the trial, which took place in Bilbao, Aguilar admitted the murders, uttering "I admit everything," the most he said during the trial, according to Spanish media.

He received a sentence of 19 years in jail for each of the murders.

The self-titled "shaolin monk" taught a vast array of martial arts and meditation techniques to pupils from Spain and overseas at his Bilbao gym, decorated like a Buddhist temple, a self-proclaimed Buddhist monastry he called Ocean of Tranquility.

At the time of his arrest, Aguliar's pupils remembered him describing himself as "a representative of Buddha on earth", El País reported.

"He had a very intimidating, piercing gaze," one of his pupils told the Spanish national daily, also making reference to his mystical and spiritual tendencies.

Another apprentice commented on his obsession with Zen culture and how he almost always wore typical orange Buddhist clothing.

"He was completely barmy but I never expected him to do something like that, especially considering how spiritual he was," she told El País.

[Jimbo]

Does anyone else think that 38 years for two brutal murders is way too lenient?

[bawang]

Does anyone else think that 38 years for two brutal murders is way too lenient?

important question is when is parole



"He had a very intimidating, piercing gaze," one of his pupils told the Spanish national daily, also making reference to his mystical and spiritual tendencies.

dat reptilian psychopath stare

[Jimbo]

important question is when is parole

Very true. Hopefully, 38 years doesn't end up being only 3.8 years.

[Kellen Bassette]

Does anyone else think that 38 years for two brutal murders is way too lenient?

Yea couldn't imagine why he should get less than a life sentence.

[bawang]

Yea couldn't imagine why he should get less than a life sentence.

its spain and victims were sub saharan and indio.

[rett2]

Yea couldn't imagine why he should get less than a life sentence.

He confessed, reducing the adminstrative burden and costs of the trial. That probably netted him a reduction. Luckily they made the two 19-year sentences run consecutively.

[mig]

its spain and victims were sub saharan and indio.

Where did you get the "indio". Those victims were black or Arabs, both can be interpreted as pejorative terms. The indio is valid in Latinoamerican cultures, where Indio is considered below domestic and wild animals.

[curenado]

Where did you get the "indio". Those victims were black or Arabs, both can be interpreted as pejorative terms. The indio is valid in Latinoamerican cultures, where Indio is considered below domestic and wild animals.

Use it all the time to make gringos and mexicans squirm here haha - but they're killing indios in juarez now so hard to believe, but can't go there! Worst for central American Indio but why take chances -
Perhaps some people simply understand it as the word for indians and that indians are regarded as sub animals in mexico.
It mean Indian not animal - sub animal is status

[Kellen Bassette]

both can be interpreted as pejorative terms.

Anything can be interpreted as a pejorative term. Words that used to be perfectly acceptable, even proper, are now politically incorrect because someone got offended and forced a general negative connotation to a word.

[mig]

Anything can be interpreted as a pejorative term. Words that used to be perfectly acceptable, even proper, are now politically incorrect because someone got offended and forced a general negative connotation to a word.

Language changes constantly though here the comment was made about the term wang ba dan made about "indio". In most of European countries there is clear discrimination against blacks and more against Arabs, those who do the dirty jobs. The term "indio" is used mainly in Latinoamerican countries where indios are considered less than domesticated animals even today.

[curenado]

"The term "indio" is used mainly in Latinoamerican countries where indios are considered less than domesticated animals even today."

Hey I hate to have to repeat this, like you repeating it makes you right when you're not, but as a Indio I am telling you:

Indio = i-n-d-i-a-n-s = indigenous people

Status of Indios in mexico = subhuman

Again, indio means Indian. Only. By insisting that it itself is the insult you are not only being ignorant, but insulting.

Indios are not considered subhuman everywhere despite your attempt to make it seem that way. "Indio" is NOT a "n" word little sister. Stop saying that.

I suppose it is perfectly alright if you are ignorant and insulting, as long as you mean well because you're a libtard or white?

Indio means Indian like african means black - the n* part is regional according to the status of the indios there.

9442

[rett2]

I get that it wasn't very Buddhist what he did, but if a Catholic priest molests an alter boy and someone says, "well he was a fraud, not a real priest," that don't exactly fly now does it?

There are a couple of important differences there. A Catholic priest who does what you describe actually is an ordained Catholic priest. This guy never was a Buddhist monk. He just dressed as one.

Not only that, in the Catholic church it's "once a priest always a priest". However a Buddhist monk who commits one of the four offences entailing defeat is no longer a Buddhist monk. Permanently. Regardless of whether he is ever found out or confesses.