"No BS" kung fu

[Golden Arms]

I am puzzled by the "no BS" attitude I see thrown around on the internet a lot. If you trained hard as a fighter under a teacher with a fighting background, then there was no "BS" to begin with.

Saying "no BS" martial arts is a lot like saying "I have a gun that actually shoots bullets". The guns that don't shoot bullets are not real guns, and never were. Anyone actually shopping for a gun would never have considered a gun that could not shoot bullets in the first place.

I just don't get it. Anyone care to explain?

[MightyB]

log into facebook and then watch this:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=581992838499289

[sanjuro_ronin]

I am puzzled by the "no BS" attitude I see thrown around on the internet a lot. If you trained hard as a fighter under a teacher with a fighting background, then there was no "BS" to begin with.

Saying "no BS" martial arts is a lot like saying "I have a gun that actually shoots bullets". The guns that don't shoot bullets are not real guns, and never were. Anyone actually shopping for a gun would never have considered a gun that could not shoot bullets in the first place.

I just don't get it. Anyone care to explain?

Is kung fu that is taught in an environment that doesn't allow for its practitioners to actually fight well with it against people that know how to fight, BS?
Is kung fu that is more interested in its "lineage" and traditions OVER the ability of its practitioners to actually USE it, BS?
Is Kung fu that is so isolate that it doesn't address the modern era of H2H combat, BS?
Is Kung fu that goes against its practitioners testing the system against people from OTHER systems, BS?

[pazman]

Saying "no BS" makes a person sound tough and straight to the point, but never indicates that they are.

"I'd learn Judo if it weren't for the pajamas and bowing BS."

"**** this push up and jump rope BS, this is a self-defense school. Put on your camo pants and get ready for some fake self defense scenarios."

"I could've become a rocket engineer if it weren't for all that math BS."

[sanjuro_ronin]

log into facebook and then watch this:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=581992838499289

Indeed.
Period.

[Golden Arms]

Is kung fu that is taught in an environment that doesn't allow for its practitioners to actually fight well with it against people that know how to fight, BS?
Is kung fu that is more interested in its "lineage" and traditions OVER the ability of its practitioners to actually USE it, BS?
Is Kung fu that is so isolate that it doesn't address the modern era of H2H combat, BS?
Is Kung fu that goes against its practitioners testing the system against people from OTHER systems, BS?

None of those are or ever have been of any interest to me or any serious fighter or martial artist that I know. I don't understand how your post relates.

[sanjuro_ronin]

None of those are or ever have been of any interest to me or any serious fighter or martial artist that I know. I don't understand how your post relates.

It was a simple question.
How does my post relate?
Will...
You Asked:

I am puzzled by the "no BS" attitude I see thrown around on the internet a lot. If you trained hard as a fighter under a teacher with a fighting background, then there was no "BS" to begin with.

Saying "no BS" martial arts is a lot like saying "I have a gun that actually shoots bullets". The guns that don't shoot bullets are not real guns, and never were. Anyone actually shopping for a gun would never have considered a gun that could not shoot bullets in the first place.

I just don't get it. Anyone care to explain?

This seems to imply that there is no BS in MA, yes?

My question to you was this:


Is kung fu that is taught in an environment that doesn't allow for its practitioners to actually fight well with it against people that know how to fight, BS?
Is kung fu that is more interested in its "lineage" and traditions OVER the ability of its practitioners to actually USE it, BS?
Is Kung fu that is so isolate that it doesn't address the modern era of H2H combat, BS?
Is Kung fu that goes against its practitioners testing the system against people from OTHER systems, BS?

So, if you answer YES to any of those examples then YES, there is BS in kung fu.


I am surprised that you, having trained as a fighter and under a fighter, don't understand why some state quite rightly there there is BS in Kung Fu.

[lkfmdc]

I shouldn't be surprised by anything anymore on here, but really? Someone saying there is no BS in the wu lin??? oh dear lord

[Kymus]

Saying "no BS" makes a person sound tough and straight to the point, but never indicates that they are.

"I'd learn Judo if it weren't for the pajamas and bowing BS."

"**** this push up and jump rope BS, this is a self-defense school. Put on your camo pants and get ready for some fake self defense scenarios."

"I could've become a rocket engineer if it weren't for all that math BS."

I think this really nails it. It's a marketing term.

That's not to say there is no BS in the kung fu community; there's tons of that. I think that the "No BS" term is merely an adjective that is trying to attract students that feel they want to learn "the real deal no bullsh!t street ready real-world comabt".

Now of course, whether what they teach really is "the real deal no bullsh!t street ready real-world comabt" is another story entirely :p

[MightyB]

Watch that vid I posted. That doesn't even include modern weapons. It's all BS on some level. Most TCMA is fairly akin to Civil War Reenacting. I think TCMA at some point tried to address that level of violence depicted in that video, but there's no way in heck that contemplating your navel whilst doing forms that moderately represent impressions of violence and doing some pre choreographed application drills is going to prepare you for three guys jumping you in a parking garage. Neither will BJJ.

[lkfmdc]

I think TCMA at some point tried to address that level of violence depicted in that video,



Here's the thing, for REAL... there was a time when TCMA was exactly about that sort of stuff... but that generation is gone and Chinese martial art went in some contorted direction

I know for a fact Chan Tai San lived that sort of life and dealt with that sort of violence. I have reasonable evidence to believe Chang Dung Sheng was a bad mofo who also dealt with a lot of violence in his life. I met a few others like this over the years... but they are all gone now

What's worse, Chinese martial art has gone completely in the fantasy direction... dear lord, look at the shaoln crowd!

[MightyB]

Here's the thing, for REAL... there was a time when TCMA was exactly about that sort of stuff... but that generation is gone and Chinese martial art went in some contorted direction

I know for a fact Chan Tai San lived that sort of life and dealt with that sort of violence. I have reasonable evidence to believe Chang Dung Sheng was a bad mofo who also dealt with a lot of violence in his life. I met a few others like this over the years... but they are all gone now

What's worse, Chinese martial art has gone completely in the fantasy direction... dear lord, look at the shaoln crowd!

IDK... some of the old timers I've talked to say the training wasn't all that different, they just seemed to have more opportunity to use it so they were more serious in their endeavors and they were probably more willing to take things to the extreme.


*PS - It's my God given right as an American to contradict myself several times in a thread!!!

[lkfmdc]

IDK... some of the old timers I've talked to say the training wasn't all that different, they just seemed to have more opportunity to use it so they were more serious in their endeavors and they were probably more willing to take things to the extreme.



depends upon which old timers... how old exactly, WHERE they were (big difference between mainland and HK for example), what social level they were, there are many factors

[MightyB]

depends upon which old timers... how old exactly, WHERE they were (big difference between mainland and HK for example), what social level they were, there are many factors

they're all HK expats with their "heydays" ranging I'd say from the early 1960's through the early 80's. Some with solid, some with sordid backgrounds. I won't name names though... but all held themselves with a confidence and grace that gave off a nonverbal cue of "don't f*** with me" and carried a range of scars and in some cases false teeth that spoke of a not so friendly past.

[Golden Arms]

I am not saying there is no BS in kung fu in general, I can't speak for others experiences. I can say however that my Hung Gar Sifu and my Pak Mei Sifu both teach in a way that is very oriented around fighting and using the arts in a combative way, and that is how I practice and teach as well. I don't relate to the lack of fighting or knowing how to use your art in violent situations, as that is not only what they are for, they specialize in doing just that.

The BS I have run into is often racial, and cultural, and I agree that part is hard to divorce from the older generation of CMA teachers.

Why train in a school where things are like the examples Ronin posted above? If that was all that was around I would have probably just gone to a boxing gym.

You may be right, the "no BS" thing sounds like a marketing scheme, or a way to make a person sound tough and straight to the point, without indicating that they actually are.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I am not saying there is no BS in kung fu in general, I can't speak for others experiences. I can say however that my Hung Gar Sifu and my Pak Mei Sifu both teach in a way that is very oriented around fighting and using the arts in a combative way, and that is how I practice and teach as well. I don't relate to the lack of fighting or knowing how to use your art in violent situations, as that is not only what they are for, they specialize in doing just that.

The BS I have run into is often racial, and cultural, and I agree that part is hard to divorce from the older generation of CMA teachers.

Why train in a school where things are like the examples Ronin posted above? If that was all that was around I would have probably just gone to a boxing gym.

You may be right, the "no BS" thing sounds like a marketing scheme, or a way to make a person sound tough and straight to the point, without indicating that they actually are.


The only time that "BS" thing sounds good is when some HAS experienced it and knows there is "BS".
If some comes out and says that boxing is BS that boxers can't punch, who'd believe them?
Besides WC people of course :D

Thanks for clearing your view, sorry if my response was a bit muddled.

I agree with the cultural (lineage) and racial BS in Kung fu.

[David Jamieson]

Mostly it's chest puffing BS in and of itself.

I don't care how prepared you are and how much you train etc etc.
If you are not situation aware. Problem.
If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Problem.
If you travel into areas of high risk. Problem.
If you are a young male aged 16-26 that likes clubbing and has a chip on their shoulder. Problem.
add a myriad of other variables to these....

You have to think about whether or not you can raise your intention to do harm high enough to survive an encounter in a bad situation. You have to realize that the only negotiating that is going to help you is in how much harm you can bring in immediately. No discussion, no begging, you've been chosen as a target, act like it.

Any day, no matter what, you could be chosen and you could die for that.

be aware. And don't buy stupid self defense courses that hype your own fear.
Also, no amount of reading or video watching will prepare you for violent assault.

It happens and it will always be percentages that determine if you are going to survive. Your gym training gives you only a slight edge. Your viciousness, if you have any is what will win the day for you...in my experience anyway.

[Kellen Bassette]

IDK... some of the old timers I've talked to say the training wasn't all that different, they just seemed to have more opportunity to use it so they were more serious in their endeavors and they were probably more willing to take things to the extreme.


Since at least the 17th Century, if not before, there have been two factions. One that was preoccupied with fantasy/performance and one that was preoccupied with combat. We see combat people lamenting the condition of Gong Fu at the hands of the dancers throughout history.

Today both factions exist, as they did in the 1930's, as they did in 1850, as they did in the 1700's and before.

The problem is that the outside consensus is lumping all TCMA into the performance group. This must change.

[Alex Córdoba]

log into facebook and then watch this:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=581992838499289

This won't be solved with more violence, ever.