SC Form

[YouKnowWho]

I would like to start a general SC thread so we can discuss all SC subjects here.

This is the SC form that is taught in Taiwan. It may be different from that's taught in China. It's simple, easy to learn, and with different flavor than the TCMA forms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo7iYiILCHI

This bag (16 lb - 23 lb) throwing is interest and can get a lot of benefit to train.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSb2kP0rnjg&feature=youtu.be

All discussions are welcome here.

[mawali]

Breaking a thing down to its simplest components is always a good thing.
Just do it and all is good. Trying to obfuscate the above, is what many will do but as I am simple minded......:D

Why try to reinvent the moon?

[IronWeasel]

I would like to start a general SC thread so we can discuss all SC subjects here.

This is the SC form that is taught in Taiwan. It may be different from that's taught in China. It's simple, easy to learn, and with different flavor than the TCMA forms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo7iYiILCHI


All discussions are welcome here.



Nice post.


We still do all of those drills verbatim...with one or two exceptions.

[lkfmdc]

This is how Shihfu Jeng Hsin Ping taught the "forms"

[Kymus]

I really love SJ, but it'll be a while until I have the opportunity to train. I figured it couldn't hurt to start with the body conditioning anyway. That, and, lately I've been doing more exercise via Kung Fu (forms for cardio, then I just started doing taiji ball as well which I'm loving), so the more variety I have, the less I'll get bored and the more I'll do.

So I wanted to do some of the stone lock training like in this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGtAaW6L8Ws). I don't have the cash for a stone lock right now, so I was curious on recommendations for an alternative. I tried a milk jug filled with water, but after the 4th time dropping it, it exploded :D. I was thinking of maybe taping it up like crazy. It's not the same as a lock, but it's similar and it's free, so that means I can start immediately!

I'm also curious as to suggestions on the brick used; I'm thinking maybe 5lbs to start, then move up to 10lbs later? Do hardware stores even sell these things by weight or is it more by size:confused:? Hardware stores are foreign to me and very confusing :p

[YouKnowWho]

The milk jug filled with water has advantage such as:

- Cheap to get it.
- You can change weight.
- You can take it with you on trip.

As long as you try not to drop it, it will serve the purpose.

In Home depo, you can find clay pieces. By using different number of clay pieces, you can have different weight for your bricks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erwaKVeJmB8

[GoldenBrain]

So I wanted to do some of the stone lock training like in this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGtAaW6L8Ws). I don't have the cash for a stone lock right now, so I was curious on recommendations for an alternative. I tried a milk jug filled with water, but after the 4th time dropping it, it exploded :D. I was thinking of maybe taping it up like crazy. It's not the same as a lock, but it's similar and it's free, so that means I can start immediately!:p

I'm not sure how much stone locks cost but maybe using cheap red plastic gas cans could be a less expensive alternative. They come in different sizes for different weights, and you could fill them with sand instead of water. Even if you use water they are not as likely to explode when you drop them.

[Kymus]

The milk jug filled with water has advantage such as:

- Cheap to get it.
- You can change weight.
- You can take it with you on trip.

As long as you try not to drop it, it will serve the purpose.

In Home depo, you can find clay pieces. By using different number of clay pieces, you can have different weight for your bricks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erwaKVeJmB8

I'll look in to that, thanks!

But yeah, dropping that jug is killer. I probably shouldn't try to switch hands by tossing :p

[Kymus]

I'm not sure how much stone locks cost

http://www.atomicathletic.com/stone-padlock-10-pound-classic-granite-pair-ishi-sashi-or-shi-shuo.html

;)


but maybe using cheap red plastic gas cans could be a less expensive alternative. They come in different sizes for different weights, and you could fill them with sand instead of water. Even if you use water they are not as likely to explode when you drop them.

Great idea!!

[mickey]

Greetings,

Re: Home made stone locks,

The plastic bottles that are used for laundry detergent are of better quality. Fill with water of pennies. Reinforce bottle with heavy tape. Can also be used for mook yee pai training.


mickey

[Kymus]

Greetings,

Re: Home made stone locks,

The plastic bottles that are used for laundry detergent are of better quality. Fill with water of pennies. Reinforce bottle with heavy tape. Can also be used for mook yee pai training.


mickey

Good idea, Mickey! I was gonna ask about a water jug (http://www.amazon.com/WaterU-BPA-Free-Dairy-1-Gallon/dp/B008MSKDBS/) but I think that a laundry detergent bottle would be about the same price and likely sturdier.

[bawang]

So I wanted to do some of the stone lock training like in this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGtAaW6L8Ws). I don't have the cash for a stone lock right now, so I was curious on recommendations for an alternative.

kymus, Im so sorry to rustle your jimmies, but this is for fun. real stone lock training is boring and used like like dumbbell. bicep curls, should raise, etc. under 20 pound stone lock is called flower lock, its for playing and street performance.

so sorry, so sorry.

[xcakid]

We actually have short forms similar to those. And the applications are throws. My Sigung studied in Taiwan. I wonder if its the same lineage and the movements just got diluted along the way. hmmmm......

[bawang]

these shuai Jiao drills are very valuable for cross referencing with longfist. longfist people often confuse punch for throw and throw for a strike. this way you clear confusion about techniques.

[GoldenBrain]

$140.00 :eek:

I like mickeys plastic laundry detergent bottles idea. We use the 150fl oz size at our house and they are the same shape as those locks.

[YouKnowWho]

these shuai Jiao drills are very valuable for cross referencing with longfist. longfist people often confuse punch for throw and throw for a strike. this way you clear confusion about techniques.

You are right! Many longfist guys don't know this longfist move is a throw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpndJ-Ql8-A&feature=youtu.be

[Kymus]

kymus, Im so sorry to rustle your jimmies, but this is for fun.

lmao Bawang, I think that's the most polite thing I've ever seen you write!


real stone lock training is boring and used like like dumbbell. bicep curls, should raise, etc.

But for gwai lo (what's the mandarin version for this word? I prefer mandarin as I'm looking to gain fluency in it ;)), stone locks are more fun. It's like larping but with weights! :P

How else can a small village make money? Tell gwai lo to buy laundry detergent bottles or buy expensive stone locks to be true gongfu warrior?


under 20 pound stone lock is called flower lock, its for playing and street performance.

lmao!

What would you suggest so that I may become a many man and be a true representative of my shiong mao quan fa?


so sorry, so sorry.

I know better than to take you seriously :p

Really, I think I'm noticing that the more you're trolling, the worse your english gets. The less trolling, the better the english.

It's like a bawang troll detector!! :eek:

[YouKnowWho]

But for gwai lo (what's the mandarin version for this word? I prefer mandarin as I'm looking to gain fluency in it ;)),

The mandarin is 老外(Lao Wai - the foreigner) which is not that bad.

[Kymus]

the mandarin is 老外(lao wai - the foreigner) which is not that bad.

谢谢

1234254

[YouKnowWho]

谢谢

Onday I was holding hand with my wife (I'm Chinese but my wife is American) on the street in Beijing. I heard 2 guys talked behind us.

A: What's the situation here?
B: He must be her tour guide.
A: How come a male tour guide holds on a female 老外(Lao Wai)'s hand?
B: He must be her "三陪导游(San Pei Dao You) - male prostitute".

[Lucas]

Onday I was holding hand with my wife (I'm Chinese but my wife is American) on the street in Beijing. I heard 2 guys talked behind us.

A: What's the situation here?
B: He must be her tour guide.
A: How come a male tour guide holds on a female 老外(Lao Wai)'s hand?
B: He must be a male prostitute for her.

haha, did you turn your head to them and wink?

[bawang]

I know better than to take you seriously :p

Really, I think I'm noticing that the more you're trolling, the worse your english gets. The less trolling, the better the english.

It's like a bawang troll detector!! :eek:

I was kidding about being sorry, since it is my mission in life to rustle the jimmies of the tightey whiteys.


but I wasn't kidding about the stone locks. under 20 pounds is done for fun, called hua suo, or "flower locks". for real training sh1t gets heavy, up to 80 pounds. 100 pounds is elite level.
all you do is swing it up and down.

stone lock is for training arms, they go up to 80 pounds. stone drums and blocks go up to 400 pounds, but traditionally village wannabes lift around 200 pounds.

[Kymus]

I was kidding about being sorry, since it is my mission in life to rustle the jimmies of the tightey whiteys.


but I wasn't kidding about the stone locks. under 20 pounds is done for fun, called hua suo, or "flower locks". for real training its 40+ pounds, you lift it up and put it down.

Not kidding, not sorry. Got it.

[YouKnowWho]

haha, did you turn your head to them and wink?

No! I pushed my wife's hand away. It was bad enough to be her tour guide. To be her prostitute is just too much for my macho image.

[Kymus]

Not kidding, not sorry. Got it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocv5WdBmSok

[bawang]

the first basic exercises I learned with stone lock was called the arm squeeze. you do bicep curl and raise your calves. send qi to your biceps and calves.

the second was lifting heaven, shoulder press. send qi to your arms.

the third was raising the triple burners, squat press. send qi to your arms and legs.


qi visualization was done with light weights.

[Lucas]

No! I pushed my wife's hand away. It was bad enough to be her tour guide. To be her prostitute is just too much for my macho image.

hahaha!!!!

[Kellen Bassette]

I would think dumbbells or kettlebells would replicate those drills reasonably well.

Blocks are sold in inches, standard height is 8 inches, length 16 inches. Those looked like what we would call a 4 inch solid. They weigh about 44 pounds.

You could start with 2 inch solids, or 4 inch stretchers, (not solid,) and work your way up...

[YouKnowWho]

There is a different between western weight and Chinese weight. By using

- western weight, you try to push yourself to the 100% limitation.
- Chinese weight, you try to only push yourself to the 80% limitation.

After your work out if you feel

- tired and don't feel like to work out next day, you must be using western weight.
- like to do more but you force yourself not to, and you look forward to your next day work out, you must be using Chinese weight.

[Kymus]

I would think dumbbells or kettlebells would replicate those drills reasonably well.

Blocks are sold in inches, standard height is 8 inches, length 16 inches. Those looked like what we would call a 4 inch solid. They weigh about 44 pounds.

You could start with 2 inch solids, or 4 inch stretchers, (not solid,) and work your way up...

cool, thanks Kellen!

[bawang]

There is a different between western weight and Chinese weight. By using

- western weight, you try to push yourself to the 100% limitation.
- Chinese weight, you try to only push yourself to the 80% limitation.

After your work out if you feel

- tired and don't feel like to work out next day, you must be using western weight.
- like to do more but you force yourself not to, and you look forward to your next day work out, you must be using Chinese weight.

Chinese weight training lifts by feel. in western training there is too much ego, people refuse to lower the weight

[mickey]

Greetings,

The differences between East and West with regard to weightlifting are not that easy to differentiate.

I met a guy on the train who was in his seventies and still had a fantastic build. I ask him how he was able to maintain that level. He shared that, unlike the younger guys, he did not believe in leaving the gym with his tongue hanging out of his mouth. He lifted to feel good and be healthy. Now this was in stark contrast to the person that I introduced resistance bands to. He went all out and ended up taking days to recover. I did manage to get him to lighten up so he could enjoy his hobby more frequently. In doing so, he found himself less sore and making strength gains.

So, in the Western tradition you have both sides of the coin.


mickey

[YouKnowWho]

Chinese weight training lifts by feel. in western training there is too much ego, people refuse to lower the weight
It's not how much weight that you can lift today. It's whether or not you will still be able to lift the same amount weight when you are 80 years old. If you hurt your back from too much weight, you cannot afford to continue your weight lifting through your old age.

Old teachers always told us if you can't use your toes to lift the double head off the ground a bit by using your heel as levage, that weight may be too heavy for you to lift. This is why when an old Chinese went to another's house and found a double heads on the ground, he would always test it by his foot before lifted it. This way he would not fail infront of others and losed face.

[Kymus]

He went all out and ended up taking days to recover. I did manage to get him to lighten up so he could enjoy his hobby more frequently. In doing so, he found himself less sore and making strength gains.

Yeah, I had a student that would train and practice so hard at home that he'd injure himself and couldn't train for a week or two. I had to sit him down and explain to him that he's not going to get anywhere if he keeps doing it. He lightened up after that.

[pazman]

Chinese weight training lifts by wishy-washy gut feelings. in western training there is too much science, white people refuse to lower the weight and not make use Chinese look bad.

I agree with Bawang.

[YouKnowWho]

When you are

- young, you work out because you enjoy to do. You want to develop something.
- old, you work out because you have to do. You are afried to lose something.

[YouKnowWho]

Do you think a grappler may have better open mind than a striker does? If a grapplier doesn't mind to "mix up" some striking skill into his training, why sometime a striker doesn't want to "mix up" some grappling skill into his training?

Your thought?

[Kellen Bassette]

Do you think a grappler may have better open mind than a striker does? If a grapplier doesn't mind to "mix up" some striking skill into his training, why sometime a striker doesn't want to "mix up" some grappling skill into his training?

Your thought?

I don't think it is a striker/grappler thing...I think it is a young dog/old dog thing.
I train with young grapplers that are quick and eager to learn striking; and young strikers that love to roll with the grapplers.

I think it's the strikers over 35-40 or so that just have a hard time changing or learning a new skill. It seems like you don't see as many older, active, grapplers as strikers, (at least it seems like not as many guys who wrestled in high school/college continue it into their adult lives, as do Karate, Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do "strikers." The grapplers that do continue are generally interested in some type of competition and MMA and the striking world would be a natural transition for them.

IMO if you don't "mix it up" your doing your own training a huge disservice, whatever your training goals may be.

[Kellen Bassette]

I always here old strikers say "grappling isn't what I do, it's not my thing, I do X style."
Young strikers usually say, "show me how to do that."

[-N-]

Do you think a grappler may have better open mind than a striker does? If a grapplier doesn't mind to "mix up" some striking skill into his training, why sometime a striker doesn't want to "mix up" some grappling skill into his training?

Your thought?

"A" grappler doesn't mind to add striking.

Sometimes "a" striker doesn't want to add grappling.

So sometimes another striker does want to add grappling.

What's the big deal? You ask a leading question based on partial examples.

[bawang]

I agree with Bawang.

are you challenging me?

[YouKnowWho]

You ask a leading question based on partial examples.
I have asked this question to many longfist brothers, "Would you like to wrestle?" So far, not even one of my longfist brothers has shown any interest in it. They don't mind to talk about longfist, Taiji, Bagua, Baji, ..., they are just not interesting to talk about wrestling.

In the WC "Dan Chi Sau - idea" thread (I assumed "idea" means "new idea"), I suggested to include the "grab" training into it. Since "grab" can be a bridge to move from the striking world into the grappling world, it's pretty logical to me. Nobody was interesting in my suggestion at all. :(

[-N-]

I have asked this question to many longfist brothers, "Would you like to wrestle?" So far, not even one of my longfist brothers has shown any interest in it. They don't mind to talk about longfist, Taiji, Bagua, Baji, ..., they are just not interesting to talk about wrestling.

In the WC "Dan Chi Sau - idea" thread (I assumed "idea" means "new idea"), I suggested to include the "grab" training into it. Since "grab" can be a bridge to move from the striking world into the grappling world, it's pretty logical to me. Nobody was interesting in my suggestion at all. :(

Maybe you have to ask Eagle Claw or Mantis guys.

[YouKnowWho]

Maybe you have to ask Eagle Claw or Mantis guys.

Since "grabbing" and "throwing" are already in both eagle claw and mantis styles, people treat it as part of their system. For some pure striking art such as WC, even the concept of "grabbing" can be a big NO NO.

It's

- very nature for a SC guy to train spin hook kick.
- a big deal for a WC guy to train "grabbing".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0_NygOmxl0&feature=youtu.be

[Kymus]

IMO, it's naive to no want to add new elements to your fighting.

But I'm all about being well rounded. That's why I want to add Shuai Jiao to what I do. At a bare minimum, if I train in Shuai Jiao, that will at least help give me a defense against throws.

[Kellen Bassette]

Since "grabbing" and "throwing" are already in both eagle claw and mantis styles, people treat it as part of their system. For some pure striking art such as WC, even the concept of "grabbing" can be a big NO NO.

It's

- very nature for a SC guy to train spin hook kick.
- a big deal for a WC guy to train "grabbing".

You know most WC guys are afraid to train with non WC guys, or even leave their own forum...that's not a fair example. :rolleyes:

[Kymus]

You know most WC guys are afraid to train with non WC guys, or even leave their own forum...that's not a fair example. :rolleyes:

I have actually noticed that some people only stick to a sub forum and I've never seen them on the main forum. :confused:

[-N-]

Since "grabbing" and "throwing" are already in both eagle claw and mantis styles, people treat it as part of their system. For some pure striking art such as WC, even the concept of "grabbing" can be a big NO NO.



Do you think a grappler may have better open mind than a striker does?

So your question really is more about some grapplers vs. some Wing Chun :)

[-N-]

You know most WC guys are afraid to train with non WC guys, or even leave their own forum...that's not a fair example. :rolleyes:

Not that I necessarily agree, but that really cracked me up :)

[-N-]

I have actually noticed that some people only stick to a sub forum and I've never seen them on the main forum. :confused:

I stuck to the Mantis forum, but got tired of it.

I post on the main forum when YKW sometimes asks an interesting question and I'm bored.

[YouKnowWho]

I have actually noticed that some people only stick to a sub forum and I've never seen them on the main forum. :confused:

I have always believed that it's more fun to look at all TCMA issues from different angles. The reason that I mentioned "grab" in WC forum because I had used it to against a WC master once. It was a big surprise to him. IMO, at his level, he should expect something like that to happen.

Your future problem is someone from other style and not someone from your own style.

[Kymus]

Your future problem is someone from other style and not someone from your own style.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/760/085/applause-gif-tumblr-47_original.gif