Pull your opponent into your punch

[YouKnowWho]

To pull your opponent into your punch is commonly used in many TCMA styles. Your punching force A plus your opponent's forward momentum B will make your punch to have power A + B which is greater than A.

If your opponent can move back faster than your advance, no matter how skillful you are, you just can't hit him. Your pulling can prevent him from moving away from you.

This principle is also used in non-TCMA style.

- A MT guy will use double neck tie to pull his opponent's head into his knee.
- A pro wrestler will throw his opponent into the rope and run his elbow into his opponent when his opponent bounces back from the rope.
- A Karate guy will break his board when his opponent who holds that board with a bit of pushing.

For some unknown reason, this basic principle seems to be foreign to some TCMA styles. Why? What's your opinion on this?

[-N-]

To pull your opponent into your punch is commonly used in many TCMA styles.

[...]

For some unknown reason, this basic principle seems to be foreign to some TCMA styles. Why? What's your opinion on this?

You mean actively pulling vs. letting the person come in like in Tai Chi?

Just a different emphasis or preference.

[-N-]

If your opponent can move back faster than your advance, no matter how skillful you are, you just can't hit him. Your pulling can prevent him from moving away from you.

In real life, if the other guy runs away, you don't need to fight.

In sport, if the other person runs away, you both still need to finish the match and determine the winner.

Unless you are talking about in real life, and you are the bad guy :D

[MasterKiller]

Grabbing and controlling the wrists/arms during strikes, I think, is what really separates CMA from most other striking styles.

[-N-]

For some unknown reason, this basic principle seems to be foreign to some TCMA styles. Why? What's your opinion on this?

Are you talking about WC again?

If the other person is faster, bigger, and stronger, then you are not going to emphasize grabbing for control.

You will rely on other skills.

[pazman]

Are you talking about WC again?

If the other person is faster, bigger, and stronger, then you are not going to emphasize grabbing for control.

You will rely on other skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Po1rFH0iA

Start at the 5:20 mark. Koga's special grip is for great for dealing with bigger, stronger guys.

Though Judo is not a striking art, it's great for learning grips that can be applied in a "dirty boxing" situation. I imagine SJ would also be good for this.

Boxing from a grip and kick catching are two things that CMA could offer the modern martial artist.

[YouKnowWho]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Po1rFH0iA

Start at the 5:20 mark. Koga's special grip is for great for dealing with bigger, stronger guys.

At 5.20, it's called "捅(Tong) - Striking push". It's a good example that you blend defense and offense into one move. This principle always remind me that if I can just use 4 oz force to push my opponent's shoulder when he just "starts" to punch, I can stop his 1000 lb punching power before it's fully generated. This is the general skill that a grappler uses it to deal with a striker in the clinch. Of course a striker can punch during the clinch. If the grappler can sense his opponent's intention, the grappler can use "捅(Tong) - Striking push" to "prevent" it from happening. Sometime when you demonstrate your "monster grips", you will use this principle too. Your opponent cannpot break your grips partially because you do have stronger grips. partially because you can use this principle to prevent your opponent from generateing any power used to against you. It's an excellent skill to have.

[-N-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Po1rFH0iA

Start at the 5:20 mark. Koga's special grip is for great for dealing with bigger, stronger guys.

This is very nice. Controlling close to the person's core and using sensitivity in the same arm to neutralize attempted grabs.

Using the right hand to prevent the grab is seen a lot in Mantis and is well documented in traditional forms. Most people don't apply it properly though.

Koga's low right sleeve grab also is nice.

I've used that a lot when sparring karate guys. It's very easy to get it from classic Mantis grab. And you can use a twist to tie up his wrist without needing much force. I usually went for takedown from there.

[Yum Cha]

Grabbing and controlling the wrists/arms during strikes, I think, is what really separates CMA from most other striking styles.

Yes indeed.

[YouKnowWho]

Grabbing and controlling the wrists/arms during strikes, I think, is what really separates CMA from most other striking styles.

This is why I assume the folllowing 2 men drill should exist in all TCMA system.

- You punch,
- your opponent blocks,
- you slide your punching arm along your opponent's blocking arm,
- grab his wrist,
- pull his arm into you, and
- ...

[LFJ]

This is why I assume the folllowing 2 men drill should exist in all TCMA system.

- You punch,
- your opponent blocks,
- you slide your punching arm along your opponent's blocking arm,
- grab his wrist,
- pull his arm into you, and
- ...

And... possibly get run over.

I think it is a better idea for pulling to always be done at an angle, either to change the opponent's facing and disrupt their balance while striking them, or to pull them into things in your surroundings; e.g. into walls, over benches, into other attackers, etc..

In various ways such as: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcCCgj0ew7U

[YouKnowWho]

And... possibly get run over.

I think it is a better idea for pulling to always be done at an angle, either to change the opponent's facing and disrupt their balance while striking them, or to pull them into things in your surroundings; e.g. into walls, over benches, into other attackers, etc..

In various ways such as: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcCCgj0ew7U
Even if your opponent may try to borrow your pulling force by adding his forward force to run over you, if you can let his face to meet your hard fist, it will still be at your advantage.

Thanks for sharing this clip. Aparently some WC system do train "grab". I have always wondered if WC guys don't train this in their Chi Shou then where will they train this?

This is an excellent example that point out the difference between the Taiji method and the SC method (you can call it method A vs. method B if you like).

- The pull at 0.09 is "Taiji" way with 2 contact points, the wrist and the elbow. He "pulled his opponent away" from him. Please notice that his opponent's legs are free.
- The pull at 0.40 is "SC" way with 3 contact points, the wrist, the elbow, and the leg. He used his right leg to "spring" his opponent's left leg so his opponent will "fall near by" him. Please notice that one of his opponent's legs is not free.

[TaichiMantis]

And... possibly get run over.

I think it is a better idea for pulling to always be done at an angle, either to change the opponent's facing and disrupt their balance while striking them, or to pull them into things in your surroundings; e.g. into walls, over benches, into other attackers, etc..

In various ways such as: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcCCgj0ew7U

I agree, that is more the mantis way...actually tai chi way too! :D

[YouKnowWho]

Here is another "pulling" example that fist meets face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9EFx8CGR2o

[LFJ]

Here is another "pulling" example that fist meets face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9EFx8CGR2o

Qixing Tanglangquan was a style I started with as a kid. Training with adults I was much smaller. This kind of technique works because even if they block or I miss, they are still pulled to my side and not into me. If that's what you meant by pulling them into your punch, then I agree. I would just not want to pull someone toward me. If I'm not pulling them to the side, then at least downward.

[YouKnowWho]

Qixing Tanglangquan was a style I started with as a kid. Training with adults I was much smaller. This kind of technique works because even if they block or I miss, they are still pulled to my side and not into me. If that's what you meant by pulling them into your punch, then I agree. I would just not want to pull someone toward me. If I'm not pulling them to the side, then at least downward.

You pull your opponent's arm outside of you but you may or may not pull his body into you. In that WC clip, he pulls his opponent to pass him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcCCgj0ew7U

If you

- use your rooting (sink down), you may pull your opponent into you as shown in that WC clip.
- don't use your rooting (keep your body float), you will pull yourself into your opponent by the "counter force" from your pulling.

In these 2 clips, it's easy to see that the reason to "pull" are to

- prevent your opponent from moving back.
- pull yourself into your opponent by the counter force.

1. You move your body "into" your opponent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zogENE6X6w

2. You move your body "next" to your opponent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aecm1yIbaeI