Ever grabbed a throat in anger?

[Yum Cha]

The "Saatchi" - Hope it doesn't get moved to 'current events' :D

Seriously, not counting any wife beaters out there, have you ever grabbed the throat of an opponent, and what happened?

The neck is a dangerous place to attack, is it a focus of your style? Are you clear about lethal and non-lethal techniques?

Maori warriors have an attack to the tendons in the front of the throat, where they make a funny hook fist and twist it into the tendon then pull it - no, never seen it done, just been shown how it works. N A S T Y. I don't tend to class Maori fighting techniques with conventional MA, but. Boys that go hunting 300 lb wild pigs with knives for the weekend BBQ just aren't in the same class.

Anybody care to take the side its not possible, or its a low percentage technique?

To me, if you can punch the mouth, you can strike or grab the throat, and fingers give you an extra few inches...

For disclosure, here's my experience:
I've done it twice, and both times the fight drained out of the opponent, like a burst balloon, never had to do anything else. Huge freak out factor. Granted, it wasn't amidst an exchange of blows, but a parry into initial attack that ended the situation, and no, I wasn't ready to finish it, I would have done something else if needed. It was a practical bluff.

An old friend, a giant retired bouncer agreed, it just takes the fight out of them. Same panic as an air choke in grappling, even if it doesn't choke the air, fully....

I've also struck/pushed the throat with the Y between thumb and forefinger, which also gets folks attention. Same basic technique as a grab, but unfinished. (good block for the head butt too).

[lkfmdc]

It's so dangerous it killed all those guys in Brazil during those 65 years of "vale tudo" fights and had to be banned......

Oh, wait, no, that never happened. It was never used successfully. And it was never banned so it could have been used...

is it POSSIBLE? yeah, sure, but seems to me if that is your "go to technique" you are assuming a lot

[Neeros]

The "Saatchi" - Hope it doesn't get moved to 'current events' :D

Seriously, not counting any wife beaters out there, have you ever grabbed the throat of an opponent, and what happened?

The neck is a dangerous place to attack, is it a focus of your style? Are you clear about lethal and non-lethal techniques?

Maori warriors have an attack to the tendons in the front of the throat, where they make a funny hook fist and twist it into the tendon then pull it - no, never seen it done, just been shown how it works. N A S T Y. I don't tend to class Maori fighting techniques with conventional MA, but. Boys that go hunting 300 lb wild pigs with knives for the weekend BBQ just aren't in the same class.

Anybody care to take the side its not possible, or its a low percentage technique?

To me, if you can punch the mouth, you can strike or grab the throat, and fingers give you an extra few inches...

For disclosure, here's my experience:
I've done it twice, and both times the fight drained out of the opponent, like a burst balloon, never had to do anything else. Huge freak out factor. Granted, it wasn't amidst an exchange of blows, but a parry into initial attack that ended the situation, and no, I wasn't ready to finish it, I would have done something else if needed. It was a practical bluff.

An old friend, a giant retired bouncer agreed, it just takes the fight out of them. Same panic as an air choke in grappling, even if it doesn't choke the air, fully....

I've also struck/pushed the throat with the Y between thumb and forefinger, which also gets folks attention. Same basic technique as a grab, but unfinished. (good block for the head butt too).

Great post.

There is a reason throat grabs or strikes are considered fouls in competitions.

Same with eye strikes, and groin strikes. To those who think they are ineffective... ever watched an MMA fight where someone accidentally gets hit in one of these three places? The fight stops while the fighter who was hit gets time to pull themselves together.

[Yum Cha]

It's so dangerous it killed all those guys in Brazil during those 65 years of "vale tudo" fights and had to be banned......

Oh, wait, no, that never happened. It was never used successfully. And it was never banned so it could have been used...

is it POSSIBLE? yeah, sure, but seems to me if that is your "go to technique" you are assuming a lot

Wouldn't say 'go to', its just whatever present's itself. Its integrated in my training, and I'm not afraid to use it. What more can you say.

[wenshu]

sace? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diWqGBQZZCA#t=95s)

[Dragonzbane76]

ever watched an MMA fight where someone accidentally gets hit in one of these three places?

accidental is the key word...

groin strikes were legal in the first couple UFC's, they didn't play a huge factor in the outcomes of fights. Although keith hackney beating dan severans in the junk is a memorable moment.

eye gouges can happen and they do hurt but in the mist of fighting it's not a go to move especially with a finger strike type of movement considering the person can move just as you do and you could strike the hard part of the skull.

throat grabs/strikes, yeah they have potential, but they also have downfalls. Not a high percentage movement in my book, to many variables. If i'm getting close enough to grab someone's throat, there are many, many, other things I can do from that distance that are more effective.

[Sima Rong]

A guy I know did it to someone who was winding him up at work continuously, day in day out, making his work life living hell. The guy stopped abusing him at work. :D
My friend is a pretty big guy, and he is slow to anger, but he was pushed too far.
He had to stop after a bit though. The guy was about to black out.

[pazman]

It's so dangerous it killed all those guys in Brazil during those 65 years of "vale tudo" fights and had to be banned......

Oh, wait, no, that never happened. It was never used successfully. And it was never banned so it could have been used...

is it POSSIBLE? yeah, sure, but seems to me if that is your "go to technique" you are assuming a lot

Mr. Ross, I respect your opinion, but here is clear evidence you are wrong:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlnBvrV8IW4

[YouKnowWho]

When Frank Demmeria fought Wu San Chu in Taiwan, the fight ended with Wu used a finger jab at Frank's throat and dropped him. My teacher was the referee in that fight.

The throat hold is called "封(Feng) – throat blocking" in TCMA. It's always my favor move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aecm1yIbaeI

When my wife (also my SC student) used that move in another SC school, That SC instructor said, "We don't do that John Wang's stuff here." That SC instructor was joking of course.

[Yum Cha]

....."We don't do that John Wang's stuff here." That SC instructor was joking of course.

hahahha High 5 John!

[YouKnowWho]

This was an old demo that I gave to the Taiwan Central Police College many years ago.

- Knee control on the body,
- Leading arm bar,
- Throat hold,

can work very well in combat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjKLVp1AbnA&feature=youtu.be

Sometime in sparring, we use a very simple rule, that is whoever can put his hand on his opponent's throat, the match stops and that person wins that round. It's very safe to train this way. I believe if you can put your hand on your opponent's throat, your hand can punch on his nose.

[Neeros]

This was one old demo that I gave to the Taiwan Central Police College many years ago.

- Knee control on the body,
- Leading arm bar,
- Throat hold,

can work very well in combat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjKLVp1AbnA&feature=youtu.be

Sometime in sparring, we use a very simple rule, that is whoever can put his hand on his opponent's throat, the match stops and that person wins that round. It's very safe to train this way. I believe if you can put your hand on your opponent's throat, your hand can punch on his nose.

I like that a lot, too often in a friendly exchange one will ignore the fact that the other person pulled, or was gentle during a normally vital strike and continue to just fight away like nothing happened.

[HungKuenH]

Of course you wouldnt have seen this technique used a lot in the old mma fights or vale tudo..who wanna go on about "Hey,I won my fights with a groin kick or throat grab" those are things you can use in selfdefence situations....so even those techniques were allowed nobody really went to fight there thinking Im using this...

also those techniques are of course much harder to apply in a duel sort of fight...in a selfefence situation the attacker most likely doesnt expect the victim to fight back..and leaves better openings for counter attacks..

Since I did both (not mma) from Judo,boxing,to kickboxing to Sanda to freefighting but also worked as a doorman for several years I find that those are 2 different worlds and apply 2 different fight-strategies..the exception would be getting in a fight outside the ring or competitive fighting area with a mma/thaibox/sanda/kick/boxer... this has yet to happen (to me)... because people that train well tend not go out and cause trouble...

[Frost]

Great post.

There is a reason throat grabs or strikes are considered fouls in competitions.

Same with eye strikes, and groin strikes. To those who think they are ineffective... ever watched an MMA fight where someone accidentally gets hit in one of these three places? The fight stops while the fighter who was hit gets time to pull themselves together.

i dont think anyone said they were ineffective, just low percentage and not fight enders

As for your point about fighters being given time to recovery, thats them playing by the rules and milking the ref when he sees these things happen in order to stop the flow of the fight, there are plenty of fights where the ref misses a groin shot or eye poke and the fighter carries on and its not until the replay at the end of a round you even know its happened

Not to mention the first rule of boxing in chin tucked and shoulders up, maskes the throat a much less visable target

[tc101]

Things like eye pokes, groin strikes, throat attacks can be useful tools in fighting. They do not replace solid fighting skills however only supplement them. For example on the ground these things are useful if you have a good ground game but are useless without one and generally the people with solid skills don't use them because they rely on their bread and butter. The same is true in stand up fighting.

[-N-]

This was an old demo that I gave to the Taiwan Central Police College many years ago.

- Knee control on the body,
- Leading arm bar,
- Throat hold,

can work very well in combat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjKLVp1AbnA&feature=youtu.be


The entry into this is in the Praying Mantis 14 Road/Routes drill - 11th road, Throat Lock.

Control opponents lead arm, throat grab, takedown.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Unless you spend time developing your grip AND developing your ability to USE it in a fight ( when the other guys is fighting back and knows how to fight), it won't work.
Can it work for some?
yes, 100%
Don't do it with an extended arm is an obvious.
The opponents had/neck should be "immobilized".
Don't grip the neck, but the actual throat/larynx.
Develop a grip that is truly "above the norm" and I don't mean a "strong" hand shake, I mean "capt of crush" category.

Look, ANYTHING can work IF it is trained to work.

[YouKnowWho]

In a close environment such as a bar area, if you can use one hand to hold on the front part of your opponent's bell, by pulling his belt with one hand and pushing his throat with another can force his upper body to bend backward. If you add the 3rd contact point, your leg, you can take your opponent down. When your opponent is falling backward, your knee can smash right into his grion. That can be a good "finish move".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfU5LrSO2Qk&feature=youtu.be

IMO, the "throat hold" may not be a finish move but to smash the back of your opponent's head to hit on a hard ground can be.

[Yum Cha]

Back in my early days of training, I used to know a crazy modern day monk, i.e. some dude that lived at the temple where we trained in poverty and spiritual retreat. He was a nut, but he had great martial arts. He agreed to 'spar' a bit with me one day, and proceeded to effortlessly poke me in the eye - hands went up - poke in the d1ck - hands went down - pinch on the adams apple - hands went up, back to the groin, eye, throat, groin..... I think you get it....

Just poking me lightly, and laughing his looney a$$ off. Me, flurrying all about like a cat with a dozen cloths pins on it...

Apart from the entertainment, the lesson I learned was that you can't help but react to attacks like that, even 'gentle' ones, and they make great set-ups.

Its like getting the 'push' on someone's ribcage when they aren't prepared, once you feel it compress, the strongest man in the world can't resist the reflex.

[RenDaHai]

Its a very natural thing to do.

Before I did much martial arts did this a lot, the funny thing is when you do it often the opponent does it back immediately. This can be a useful principle to use to lure someone into a move.


A good move is to lock the throat --- head butt. It is always worrying doing a head butt incase they do it at the same time and you smash each other. However when you have their throat locked they can't move their head as much so are a good target for it.

[YouKnowWho]

After throat hold, an elbow strike on your opponent's face when his head is on the ground can be a natural "follow on strike" move.

[wiz cool c]

true story,i didn't grab a guys neck but i struck a guy in the throat with a bagua zhang tiger mouth strike. here is how it went, this was about ten years ago, i was in new york coming back from a japanese language meet up group with a friend of mine a japanese lady. we walked for a short while and wound up in bowery street looking for a subway. while we were crossing the street i vaguely hear someone from behind,yelling something. not knowing this was related to me we keep walking across the street, when we reached the curb, i hear[Move] and out of the corner of my eye see a guy fall on roller blades.


we keep walking and about a minute later i start hearing curses from behind. i turn around and that guy on roller blades come up to my face with his hands up,about two feet from me. he is blaming me for his falling. i tried to explain to him i didn't know he was talking to me nicely but he persisted, calling me a tough guy and if he didn't have skates on he would **** me up... now at this point i am starting to get ****ed and began to argue with him, and his hands were still up in a position were he could strike at me easily ,being he was in my face.


in my mind at the time i decide to shut him up rather then walk away,feeling i was in the right. i quickly struck him in the throat with a tiger mouth strike. it shot out from my hips and went directly into his throat. he he fell flat onto his back. after a few seconds he started to roll onto his stomach to get back onto his feet. i didn't want to allow him to stand,in fear he might have a weapon[bowery street is known for junkies and such] or might cause a big commotion getting us both arrested. so i kneeled next to him and put on a rear naked choke, at this point i remember two big guys come next to me and they were scared to touch me, ,they were asking me very politly,please leave him alone. i am only 5 foot 9 inches 165 pounds. [i guess my action scared them] i choked him till i felt him go limp then released the hold. he made an effort to get up then fainted and his head bounced off the concrete.


my friend the japanese lady was screaming she thought he was dead. i wanted to wait make sure he was ok,before leaving, those two big guys where helping him, he regained consciousness,and i quickly grabbed my friends hand and ,split across the street and down some side street before any cops showed up.

[MightyB]

It's not a fantasy move and you don't need super human strength to pull it off.

My brother, who's never trained a minute in a MA Kwoon, was enjoying a night of refreshments with his army buddies in a small Texas establishment in the way-back of the 90's... when a belligerent Texican walks up and immodestly accused my brother of sitting in "his seat". My brother stood up and politely told the immodest Texican to fudge off, thereby causing the Texican to wind up, and I guess attempt to throw his best John Wayne like haymaker - in the midst of this comic book action, my brother placed a friendly hand on the immodest Texican's throat and proceeded to gently, albeit forcibly guide the Texican to the ground. After the three largish security personnel removed my brother's hand from the Texican's throat and asked my brother and the Texican to leave their establishment, the Texican no longer wished to express his immodest claim to the said seat when they were outside.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Last guy that tried to grab my throat got broken ribs and and KO'd for the effort.
Just saying:D

[MightyB]

Last guy that tried to grab my throat got broken ribs and and KO'd for the effort.
Just saying:D

Your mom doesn't count!



















*just kidding. :D

[Yum Cha]

Last guy that tried to grab my throat got broken ribs and and KO'd for the effort.
Just saying:D

Yea, well, you barely got any neck to begin with 'beef'. :D

[lkfmdc]

I didn't actually get a chance to look at John Wang's clip until now, I know John and know his stuff is real...

I was gonna mention that one of the ways we do use a throat grab that I think works well, is to set up a throw, and BAM,,, there was John's clip

He beat me to it :p

[Lucas]

ive had my throat grabbed and pinched finger to finger when i was sleeping by a very large man. it made me fight like a wild maniac and he didnt get to hold on very long, and yes he had my throat pinched off completely. if anything giving someone a true fear that their life is in danger, will fuel them to limits they otherwise may not reach.

[lkfmdc]

ive had my throat grabbed and pinched finger to finger when i was sleeping by a very large man.



whose your daddy....

[Yum Cha]

whose your daddy....

..................

[Lucas]

whose your daddy....

ur mom !!!!

[Drake]

I have grabbed the throat of my opponent before, but it wasn't during any match. Usually, the speed, audacity, and violence of action more than nullifies the risk of exposing yourself. Of course, if you screw it up... have fun at the hospital.

[Yum Cha]

I have grabbed the throat of my opponent before, but it wasn't during any match. Usually, the speed, audacity, and violence of action more than nullifies the risk of exposing yourself. Of course, if you screw it up... have fun at the hospital.

Its a tricky thing, and being that I've never done it prepared to fully execute what I perceive as a potentially fatal attack, its a bluff, with prejudice and intimidation.

Come across someone like Sanjuro or Lucas and you'll get called. Still, does take the fight out of most guys.....

[Kellen Bassette]

When I was a teenager, a man used the throat grab on me during sparring. I immediately froze and grabbed his hand with both of my hands, leaving myself in a vulnerable position while struggling against his grip.

I remember being very disappointed in myself. Common sense says I have two hands and he has one hand tied up with his grab, just punch him in the head, but my instincts took over and I couldn't do it. At that time I chocked it up to inexperience and the fact that he had trained longer than me.

I've never used the technique that much myself; and certainly wouldn't consider it "go to," but over the years I've employed it a few times during sparring, always with the same result. The guy being grabbed reaches up with both hands and tries to break the grip. No one ever took a swing at me with the throat lock on.

I've also used this and seen other people use this in real life situations, every time with the same result. Dude getting grabbed reaches with both hands and tries to free the grip. I got to believe that is an instinctive response.

On the other hand, I do know one person who was being grabbed by the throat, (apparently not to strongly since he could still talk,) and twice told the dude if he didn't let go he was going to slap him. After the throat grabber ignored the two warnings, he knocked the guy out with an open hand slap. Apparently some people can override the instinct. (I didn't witness that one, only heard the legends later...)

[-N-]

Common sense says I have two hands and he has one hand tied up with his grab, just punch him in the head, but my instincts took over and I couldn't do it.

Which is why Praying Mantis controls the opponent's lead arm while grabbing the throat. Harder for him to turn and punch. You can defend like in the example with Koga's underarm gi grip. And you already trapped his legs for a takedown.