Perfect Fighting Stance

[YouKnowWho]

IMO, there is no "perfect" fighting stance. If you have

- square stance (both legs parallel with your chest facing 90 degree to your opponent), your opponent can attack "double legs" (get both if you can).

- side stance (one leg forward one leg backward), your opponent can attack that "single leg" (if you can't get both, get 1 after another).

- forward leaning legs back parallel stance (also square stance like most wrestlers use), your opponent can drag your head down to the ground (if you want to lean forward, your opponent can help you to lean forward more than you want to).

- legs closer to each other, your opponent can sweep your leg from outsid in (to make your legs closer than you want to).

- legs apart from each other, your opponent can spring your leg from inside out (to make your legs to separate apart more than you want to).

- weight on your leading leg, your opponent can sweep your leading leg.

- weight on your back leg, your opponent can scoop your leading leg.

No matter how you may stand, your weakness is always the 90 degree angle through your chest. If you use

- square stance, your weakness is forward-backward.
- side stance, your weakness is sideway.

It's not how you stance but whether you know your weakness and how to "react from" it. If you know how to do that, you can stand in anyway that you want to.

What's your opinion on this?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Any stance you can use for what you need done is the perfect one.
I've seen people fight well from almost every possible stance the only common element is that this was the stance they naturally preferred.

[bawang]

this conversation is too deep for kung fu people. kung fu people only know wong fei hong movie horse stance. when you put your hands up to protect yourself, you are doing kickboxing.

[Lucas]

this is the perfect fighting stance.

http://www.nypost.com/r/nypost/blogs/popwrap/200905/Images/200905_Crane-kick.jpg

[Neeros]

Sure you can stand in any way you want, but why? Why stand in any way you want when many generations of practitioners discovered, refined, and crystallized the ways to stand and move that give the most advantages while minimizing disadvantages?

[YouKnowWho]

this is the perfect fighting stance.

http://www.nypost.com/r/nypost/blogs/popwrap/200905/Images/200905_Crane-kick.jpg

Back in the 70th, most TKD guys used this stance. They raised their leading leg to protect middle level kicks, hop and hop, and looking for chance for a head kick.

[YouKnowWho]

Sure you can stand in any way you want, but why?

May be you want to use it as a bait? When you put weight on your leading leg, your opponent may sweep you. If you are good at bending your leg at your knee joint and sweep back at your opponent's sweeping leg, it will be to your advantage.

Sometime when you and your opponent both have strong stances with nothing exposed, neither party will want to make initial attack, the fight may drag for a long time. To open yourself up to invite your opponent to come in is a valid strategy "if you are ready for it".

[Lucas]

the way most fighters are comfortable standing will be based around their training, generally utilizing the generations of development into that particular styles 'ready stances'. of course with some personal variances thrown in usually for body type, technique and strategy preference.

[YouKnowWho]

Most people like to use 30-70, 40-60, or even 50-50 weight distributation stance. They may like to face their opponent in a 45 degree angle, not square, not side.

[BlackEChan]

"Make your fighting stance your every day stance, and make your everyday stance your fighting stance" Miyamoto Musashi

[Lucas]

ya but people look at me funny when i hop around on one leg through the store in crane stance.

[YouKnowWho]

The best fighting stance is a stance that you can spring forward from it. That mean you have already "hide your attacking preparation" in your fighting stance.

[YouKnowWho]

ya but people look at me funny when i hop around on one leg through the store in crane stance.
People look at me funny when i zigzag among street crowd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGxptvJlubY

I love this footwork. You move toward your opponent's side door, the moment that he turns, you change angle and attack his front door.

[bawang]

Most people like to use 30-70, 40-60, or even 50-50 weight distributation stance. They may like to face their opponent in a 45 degree angle, not square, not side.

beat the drum (70 30) is aggressive yang. seven stars fist (30 70) is defensive yin. siping quan (50 50) is balanced between offence and defence. the saying goes stance needs to change, yin yang needs to spin.

[YouKnowWho]

To circle around your opponent is always a good strategy. To move your back foot to line up with your opponent's feet then line up your leading foot afterward.

http://imageshack.us/a/img864/8041/circlerunningr.jpg

[Sima Rong]

Thanks for sharing your experience YouKnowWho,

When I was training in Shorinji Kempo, we used certain stances and hand positions to invite the opponent to attack 'unguarded areas'. It seemed like a good strategy, but yes, I agree, if you are willing to open up your guard to the head to invite a head punch, or open up your body to invite a body punch, or deliberately put your weight on your front leg to invite a sweep, you need to be good enough to deal with the attack well and relaxed enough so you don't respond to an attack at the onset but when the opponent is committed, because otherwise you will get nailed if someone feints and then takes advantage of your behaviour.

I think you have to make the best of what position you have, so training to fight from as many positions as possible is a good idea. A fixed fighting stance is dangerous, for the reasons you have gone over. It's important to be flexible, to train on both sides, from different stances.
But if you are the attacker,there needs to be somewhere to start, I guess. As youve said, you need to know the weakness of the stance and be prepared.
That's my ramble, anyway.

[-N-]

To open yourself up to invite your opponent to come in is a valid strategy "if you are ready for it".

Brendan Lai's teacher, Wong Hon Fan, liked to use a forward facing upright stance with a high low open guard - one hand very high, and one hand very low.

It pretty much was a trap.

Some of us liked to use that also, but opponents would not attack if they caught us smiling.

[Dragonzbane76]

situation dictates stance

[RenDaHai]

No one stance is strong.

Rather it is the ability to transition, to change that is strong.

That is why we say the 'stances' are not stances but steps, methods of walking. If you have the ability to turn your waist fast between in line and square, if you have the ability to shift your weight suddenly, if you have the ability to crouch down or lift your knee fast, then you have no need to stay in any stance. LiuHe dictates the feet move to accompany the hands (amongst other things).

[Yum Cha]

No one stance is strong.

Rather it is the ability to transition, to change that is strong.

That is why we say the 'stances' are not stances but steps, methods of walking. If you have the ability to turn your waist fast between in line and square, if you have the ability to shift your weight suddenly, if you have the ability to crouch down or lift your knee fast, then you have no need to stay in any stance. LiuHe dictates the feet move to accompany the hands (amongst other things).

Ai Ya! this is the good oil!

A stance is not a stance, but a pearl on a string of transitions. Mobility is the key, from hand to hand to army against army.
The objective is to pass the danger zone into the attack zone and destroy or be destroyed.
Strength and balance at the expense of your opponent's strength and balance is what stance does for you in a dynamic engagement.
So, there is no perfect stance, to my mind, only superior footwork. After years of playing with this question and trying all kinds of approaches, I finally gave up any static approach. I keep moving and changing shape.

[TAO YIN]

"Stance is not a T or a V, you don't attack I won't attack." Works pretty good.

[YouKnowWho]

After a fight starts, there is no stance but step (footwork). Before the fight start, there is a better way to arrage your body posture.

When I was young, oneday I got into some argument with a guy. The 1st thing that I did was to turn my body 45 degree (so my chest won't exposed 100%) and move back half step (to be outside of his punching range). This way I didn't have to raise my arms to guard my head. That would be too much before a conflict even started.

[YouKnowWho]

"Stance is not a T or a V, you don't attack I won't attack." Works pretty good.

You may want to say that "if he moves, I'll move faster than he does." The only problem is if you respond to fast, people may think that your deliever the 1st punch.

Another way is when your opponent attacks, you move back to let everybody to see that he throws the 1st punch. You then jump in and start that fight. Of course you have to be good in retreating footwork.

[Neeros]

May be you want to use it as a bait? When you put weight on your leading leg, your opponent may sweep you. If you are good at bending your leg at your knee joint and sweep back at your opponent's sweeping leg, it will be to your advantage.

Sometime when you and your opponent both have strong stances with nothing exposed, neither party will want to make initial attack, the fight may drag for a long time. To open yourself up to invite your opponent to come in is a valid strategy "if you are ready for it".

alright, I can see that. :-)

[MightyB]

the answer is pigeon toed.

[sanjuro_ronin]

"Make your fighting stance your every day stance, and make your everyday stance your fighting stance" Miyamoto Musashi

This is the correct.

[MightyB]

This is the correct.

Nope, pigeon toed.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Nope, pigeon toed.

Pigeons don't have toes.

[MightyB]

Pigeons don't have toes.

LOL -

seriously, my thoughts are 50/50 at the start, turned to minimize openings, hands up like a boxer, knees slightly bent... but constantly shifting depending on the situation.

[sanjuro_ronin]

LOL -

seriously, my thoughts are 50/50 at the start, turned to minimize openings, hands up like a boxer, knees slightly bent... but constantly shifting depending on the situation.

Stances are always, ALWAYS dynamic and fluid, NEVER static, ridged OR set.

[wenshu]

头下
屁股上

The first pattern in the first road of Gou Te Se's GangQuan 肛拳.

[David Jamieson]

Keeping a static stance in a fight is something best left to 50 foot robots.

plant and move, plant and move.
the best fighting stance is the one that facilitates mobility.

[xcakid]

Best fighting stance is prone position aiming a 700PSS in .308 at your opponents center mass at about 100+ yards away without him/her knowing. :D

[David Jamieson]

Best fighting stance is prone position aiming a 700PSS in .308 at your opponents center mass at about 100+ yards away without him/her knowing. :D

well if you're gonna go that route, then best fighting stance is seated or upright with your finger poised over a big red button that will trigger nuclear destruction for your enemy, his family, all the people he knew, his neighbours, and everyone else within a 25km radius of the ass kicking.

[xcakid]

well if you're gonna go that route, then best fighting stance is seated or upright with your finger poised over a big red button that will trigger nuclear destruction for your enemy, his family, all the people he knew, his neighbours, and everyone else within a 25km radius of the ass kicking.

^^ This guys Wins!!



In all seriousness, there is no such thing as "the best fight stance" or "the best technique" if there was, it would be the only thing taught in Martial Arts and that would be it. Done, no arguments, no counters. Think about it. Why would anyone want teach/learn anything else. If you truly have a proven "best" out there.

Bottom line, its only "best" until someone figures out a counter or ups the ante (like in bringing a gun to a boxing match) There is a counter for everything. Its the execution that counts. And thus just keeps evolving from there.

[YouKnowWho]

"the best technique"... its only "best" until someone figures out a counter ...

In order to counter something effectively, you will need "ability". Some "ability" is not that easy to develop. One day my teacher said, "Everything that I have taught you, if you try to use it on me, it won't work." I tried and he was right. Not only he was stronger than me, he would interrupt my move in the initial stage.

Sometime even if your opponent knows the counter, since his "ability" has not been developed at certain level, his counter won't work.

Here is an example. If this "eyebrow mopping" counter always works, nobody would train "head lock".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWI6Pzseisw&feature=youtu.be

This is the ancient Chinese spear-shield contradiction. When you put a spear to against a shield, that spear may penetrate that shield. Also that spear may not be able to penetrate that shield.

http://imageshack.us/a/img607/5666/spearshield.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img826/5230/spearshield1.jpg

[Syn7]

There is a counter for every action. This is where foresight becomes your friend.

[YouKnowWho]

There is a counter for every action. This is where foresight becomes your friend.

If you know the counters, you can interrupt that counter before it gets full strength. In grappling, a quick shaking can destroy almost all counters.

When you get hold on your opponent's arm, if he tries to kick you, you shake him. If he tries to punch you, you shake him. If you are familiar with shaking but your opponent is not, you have advantage.

[Syn7]

If you know the counters, you can interrupt that counter before it gets full strength. In grappling, a quick shaking can destroy almost all counters.

When you get hold on your opponent's arm, if he tries to kick you, you shake him. If he tries to punch you, you shake him. If you are familiar with shaking but your opponent is not, you have advantage.

You can take that on and on and on. If you know the counters of the counters of the counters....

My favorite memories in wrestling are the scrambles. Think fast, but not too fast. Don't get too far ahead of yourself and never think you are safe.

[xcakid]

In order to counter something effectively, you will need "ability". Some "ability" is not that easy to develop. One day my teacher said, "Everything that I have taught you, if you try to use it on me, it won't work." I tried and he was right. Not only he was stronger than me, he would interrupt my move in the initial stage.


If we are talking just straight up fighting within the martial arts confines, yes. However, in todays environment, escalation is the key. Ability can be compensated by other means, be it a technique catered to that ability, or weapons for instance, various underhanded tactics, etc. Although my example of shooting someone from 100+ yds was in done in jest, it is a viable tactic. Remember those VA sniper shootings a few years back, there wouldn't have been any martial artist that could've defended against that regardless of ability. Unfortunately that is the world we live in. You can romanticize martial arts, but lets face it, it stopped becoming the supreme means of defense/fighting once firearms was invented.

Practice your stance, practice your techniques, but one lapse in awareness and you are compromised.


You can take that on and on and on. If you know the counters of the counters of the counters....

.

My point exactly. Ability and your perfect technique can only take you so far.



In todays society, I use martial arts for fitness and as means to get to my weapon should an altercation happens. I am fortunate enough to live in a state that still recognizes the 2nd Amendment. Seriously, although I train and teach Long Fist, my main training focus is tactical shooting and Filipino martial arts specifically knife fighting.

[lance]

IMO, there is no "perfect" fighting stance. If you have

- square stance (both legs parallel with your chest facing 90 degree to your opponent), your opponent can attack "double legs" (get both if you can).

- side stance (one leg forward one leg backward), your opponent can attack that "single leg" (if you can't get both, get 1 after another).

- forward leaning legs back parallel stance (also square stance like most wrestlers use), your opponent can drag your head down to the ground (if you want to lean forward, your opponent can help you to lean forward more than you want to).

- legs closer to each other, your opponent can sweep your leg from outsid in (to make your legs closer than you want to).

- legs apart from each other, your opponent can spring your leg from inside out (to make your legs to separate apart more than you want to).

- weight on your leading leg, your opponent can sweep your leading leg.

- weight on your back leg, your opponent can scoop your leading leg.

No matter how you may stand, your weakness is always the 90 degree angle through your chest. If you use

- square stance, your weakness is forward-backward.
- side stance, your weakness is sideway.

It's not how you stance but whether you know your weakness and how to "react from" it. If you know how to do that, you can stand in anyway that you want to.

What's your opinion on this? YouKnowWho , to me you choose the stance that ' s right for you , because the opponent can be unpredictable , he can attack you in many different ways , so it ' s really up to you to be aware of those attacks the opponent can deliver to you . There is no perfect stance , your opponent is just going to attack you , and you just have to react to it , the best way you can .