Lee Koon Hung's Fu Mei Daan Dou

[jdhowland]

I saw a Tat Mau Wong video once that demonstrated a "Tiger Tail Broadsword" form. I had learned a similar form for daan dou in Hawaii, but it had a different opening. I don't believe it is a CLF set. Can anyone enlighten me?

[CLFNole]

Not exactly sure of the origin as I have seen variations in other styles but this has been in our line even before Sifu. I think this falls in the "bing hay mo gar" or "weapons have no family" category and was "borrowed" by various systems. BTW Wong Tat Mau's version is a bit different from ours as he made some changes.

Peace.

[lkfmdc]

not to take this off subject, but while Lama Pai spent most of its time in the south, most of its weapons are from the north.. so what CLF said

[CLFNole]

not to take this off subject, but while Lama Pai spent most of its time in the south, most of its weapons are from the north.. so what CLF said

I agree with this completely and don't think it is unique to lama but rather many southern styles. Not all weapons of course but definately some.

[mickey]

Greetings,

jdhowland:

When you mentioned Hawaii, the name that immediately popped up in my head was Grandmaster Bucksam Kong. The thing is that GM Kong learned Choy Li Fut in addition to Hung Gar. Lee Koon Hung was his Sifu in Choy Li Fut.

Here is another example of Tiger Tail Broadsword from Hung Gar performed by a student of TenTigers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFBUBf4z3yY


mickey

[jdhowland]

Not exactly sure of the origin as I have seen variations in other styles but this has been in our line even before Sifu. I think this falls in the "bing hay mo gar" or "weapons have no family" category and was "borrowed" by various systems...

I'm sure that must be the case. I just wondered if anyone might know the "original" source.

[jdhowland]

not to take this off subject, but while Lama Pai spent most of its time in the south, most of its weapons are from the north.. so what CLF said

That's true for our Lama, as well. No typical southern weapons (spinning spear, double butterfly knives or large farmer-style daan dou).

The version of Fuh Mei DD I learned was not from my sifu, but from a friend from Hong Kong. I never learned where he got it from. He was mostly Hung Ga but learned some other things, as well. His version had no fa dou, just a simple, almost military-looking four-road drill. Very northern-looking, but then, all daan dou is northern military in origin, far as I know.

[jdhowland]

Greetings,

jdhowland:

When you mentioned Hawaii, the name that immediately popped up in my head was Grandmaster Bucksam Kong. The thing is that GM Kong learned Choy Li Fut in addition to Hung Gar. Lee Koon Hung was his Sifu in Choy Li Fut.

Here is another example of Tiger Tail Broadsword from Hung Gar performed by a student of TenTigers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFBUBf4z3yY


mickey

Thanks, mickey. I knew there was a little CLF in Kong's Siu Lum Pai but I didn't know Kong sifu learned from LKH. I met Kong around '73 and had a neighbor who was one of his students. We used to compare notes about our styles. That video link makes about the fifth version of FMDD I've seen. All are different but all have recognizable sequences.

[mickey]

Greetings,

No disrespect to CLFNole meant here or to Choy Li Fut. There could be some overlapping of forms. This is a post from Sow Choy at this forum regarding Shek Kin and Lee Koon Hung:


Sow Choy
Guest

Posts: n/a
The comparison was not that important, I meant it for people who have never heard of him. My connection is through my 1st Sifu Grandmaster Lee Koon Hung. Lee Koon Hung was Shek Kin's only student. He did teach him Northern style Kung Fu, but more than just Law Horn. Lee Koon Hung learned more weapon forms from him than anything else. He taught those forms to advanced students. They are incredible, they really give us more insight and understanding about the differences between Northern and Southern style.Choy Lay Fut is the style Grandmaster Lee Koon Hung was famous for.



mickey

[CLFNole]

Hi Mickey:

Sow Choy is my sidai. Sifu learned from Kin Baat much later in life after he was an established Sifu already. This form as I mentioned goes back earlier to Poon Dik's school and does not come from Shek Kin.

Peace

[mickey]

Greetings CLFNole,

Thank you for sharing that.

mickey

[CLFNole]

Mickey:

No problem...we are lucky enough to have some of Shek Kin's Kung Fu within our curriculum as Sifu incorporated what he felt would compliment our CLF...mostly weapons. Nice to have a more northern influenced spear since typical CLF spear is more like southern dan tow kwun.

Peace

[jdhowland]

Nice to have a more northern influenced spear since typical CLF spear is more like southern dan tow kwun.

Most daan tauh gwan is mostly a method for training spear, anyway. I don't care for the reverse--when someone uses double head staff to make a spear form. Doesn't make much sense to me except for flashy demonstrations.

I do like northern spear, though.

[lance]

I saw a Tat Mau Wong video once that demonstrated a "Tiger Tail Broadsword" form. I had learned a similar form for daan dou in Hawaii, but it had a different opening. I don't believe it is a CLF set. Can anyone enlighten me?

You remember who your sifu was that taught you that daan dou set in Hawaii ?
I ' m from Hawaii , was that sifu Mak Fai by any chance ?

[CLFNole]

You remember who your sifu was that taught you that daan dou set in Hawaii ?
I ' m from Hawaii , was that sifu Mak Fai by any chance ?

I know Mak Hin Fai was in Hawaii for a time but wasn't Kong Buk Sam also there too? Could have come from him as well. Also Victor Kim is in Hawaii and he learned from Sifu as well.

[lance]

Greetings,

jdhowland:

When you mentioned Hawaii, the name that immediately popped up in my head was Grandmaster Bucksam Kong. The thing is that GM Kong learned Choy Li Fut in addition to Hung Gar. Lee Koon Hung was his Sifu in Choy Li Fut.

Here is another example of Tiger Tail Broadsword from Hung Gar performed by a student of TenTigers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFBUBf4z3yY


mickey Thanks for replying , I appreciate it . my good friend was learning from Sifu Kong too until he trained with Sifu Mak Fai . Mickey were you there when Sifu Kong had a challenge with another Kung Fu practitioner ? You may know Jose Ramos who was once Sifu Kong ' s assistant sifu ? You see Sifu Kong was ' nt the only kung fu sifu in Hawaii at that time there were other kung fu clubs and schools too .

You see Sifu Kong hired Sifu Mak Fai to teach the lion dance to his students in Hawaii . If you did ' nt know it was because of some chinese people who were living locally in Hawaii , and they established the Jung Mo or the Chinese Physical Culture Assn . In Hawaii . Which was the first kung fu club in Hawaii and from there other kung fu experts who were involved with the jung mo ass. in hawaii also branched out and started their own kung fu clubs in Hawaii .

As for Sifu Kong himself he had 2 - assistant sifus they were Sifu Vernon Rieta and Sifu Seng Au , they still teach and do lion dance in Hawaii too . Because since Hawaii is a small island all the kung fu sifus know eachother . Some of them get along with eachother and some of them really don ' t like eachother . I still see Sifu Kong ' s club perform kung fu and lion dance on stage at the chinese cultural plaza in Hawaii . And Mickey if you happen to see Sifu Kong please don ' t mention anything about the challenge Sifu Kong had with another kung fu practitioner in Hawaii . that sifu was teaching manchurian white crane , hop gar , and choy li fut , this sifu learned choy li fut from GM Ho Ngan . And Sifu Kong was shaolin Hung Gar and choy li fut , because my cousins on my moms side of the family was learning from the sifu who was teaching the manchurian white crane system . And I met another guy who also learned kung fu himself from the same sifu my cousins was learning from .

For me I was once a member of jung mo myself back in 1985 , I stayed for 5 years then I joined chinese lion dance assn . Learning fut gar kung fu and the lion dance , but I was a badboy , I missed 2 - classes , then they kicked me out . Then I was learning from Sifu Hodges learning fut gar kung fu too , then it came to a point where this sifu hodges could ' nt teach me already , because he had to work 2 jobs to support his family . Then I was learning from Sil Lum Fut Ga kung fu from Sifu Lee for about 2 years , but because I had to work at that time they had class , I had to discontinue training . And this Mickey is my own share of martial arts experiences . I was training in wing chun too under this 2 - brothers who I met through friends of mine , they were the stanley au lineage of Ip Man .

Today in Hawaii we have sifus who teach iron body , iron palm , wing chun , Jook Lum Southern praying mantis and the list goes on and on . But more lion dance club than kung fu clubs . Because Hawaii is a melting pot of different type of cultures , so they have people of different cultures learning lion dancing too .

[mickey]

Greetings lance,

You may want to delete or edit your post because it contains some info that may be considered sensitive to GM Kong.

I have never been to Hawaii nor a part of the Hung Gar family. In my martial quest I read everything I could about everything that was out there, even when I could not afford instruction. My brain was like a sponge. So it is nice to be able to provide some info to an inquiring mind. So when CLFNole provide me with more insight about the knife set, I simply absorbed it. It may be of help to someone else one day.

I have questions for you about Hawaii. I will send you a pm.

mickey

[jdhowland]

... please don ' t mention anything about the challenge Sifu Kong had with another kung fu practitioner in Hawaii . that sifu was teaching manchurian white crane , hop gar , and choy li fut , this sifu learned choy li fut from GM Ho Ngan ...


"That sifu" is my teacher. I agree with mickey that it is probably best not to bring up accounts of the sifu who are still alive without their permission. I don't even share much about my own teacher because of the politics involved.

Lance, you must have trained for a while at the Hawaii Chinese Community Center on Nuuanu. I have many fond memories of that place.

[jdhowland]

You remember who your sifu was that taught you that daan dou set in Hawaii ?
I ' m from Hawaii , was that sifu Mak Fai by any chance ?

No. I knew of Mak Hin Fai but never learned from him. My set came from someone I met at U.H. who was "fresh off da boat." Ken Leung was his name. LKH was teaching in Hong Kong at the time and it might be from him. I only knew that it was supposed to be from a Choy Lee Fut school so I was interested in learning it. All my other knife sets were from White Crane and Hop Ga.

[mooyingmantis]

Greetings,

jdhowland:

When you mentioned Hawaii, the name that immediately popped up in my head was Grandmaster Bucksam Kong. The thing is that GM Kong learned Choy Li Fut in addition to Hung Gar. Lee Koon Hung was his Sifu in Choy Li Fut.

Here is another example of Tiger Tail Broadsword from Hung Gar performed by a student of TenTigers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFBUBf4z3yY


mickey

I have seen this form demonstrated by a student of Frank Yee. So perhaps it is just a traditional Hung Gar form added into CLF.

[CLFNole]

I have seen it in a number of styles from jow gar to buk siu lum but never hung gar so I think this form has just got around a bit. :eek:

[lkfmdc]

the set in the video (mangled to **** by the way :eek: I mean, WTF?) exists in the old "red books" and a lot of traditions have picked up versions of it

[lance]

"That sifu" is my teacher. I agree with mickey that it is probably best not to bring up accounts of the sifu who are still alive without their permission. I don't even share much about my own teacher because of the politics involved.

Lance, you must have trained for a while at the Hawaii Chinese Community Center on Nuuanu. I have many fond memories of that place. Yes , apologize for what I wrote too concerning GM Kong . Anyway , if you people did ' nt know Honolulu , Hawaii is a very small island so therefore all the sifus are aware of eachother .

I trained at the chinese buddhist center the place you ' re talking about , but I was training with a different club called jung mo ( Chinese Physical Culture Assn. )
I was ' nt training with GM Kong , but my good friend Jace was , he knows about GM Kong , then later he learned the lion dance from Sifu Mak Fai at that time . What I think is the other clubs that do lion dancing , they adopted Sifu Maks' way of bowing when you open the lion dance performance .

Anyway , jace learned choy li fut from Mak Sifu and learned hung gar from GM Kong too . Then when Sifu Mak left Hawaii to go to seattle , jace left GM Kong to go to Jung mo . I ' ve never met GM Kong , but only read stories about him , and I also have Hung Gar videos of GM Kong . So I ' m familiar with GM Kong . When I went to college in hawaii , I met a guy who is from GM kong ' s club . But I still watch GM Kong ' s club do their kung fu demo & their lion dances .

jdhowland , were you training with GM Kong too ? When I read your thread post you sound like you ' re in the mainland somewhere ? What made you leave Hawaii , for college or a new job ? Just curious , that ' s all . GM Kong had 2 - best students too , they were Vernon Rieta & Seng Au , these 2- Sifus have their own clubs and lion dance groups too . Sifu Rieta was the rascal one he joined all the kung fu clubs in hawaii including GM Kong and Sifu Mak . But when it was time for chinese new year , he would ' nt show up for the celebration . Kierin tong too if you know him , he left Seng Au ' s group to form his own club , in which I forgot the name already . But Sifu Tong also learned choy li fut from Sifu Chan Yong Fa .
So I guess everybody changes paths in martial arts . And jdhowland , I know about the politics too about the kung fu club and schools in hawaii in general . Even now , I have to think what I will write on this topic thread .

[jdhowland]

lance;1241546]... Hawaii is a very small island so therefore all the sifus are aware of eachother .

Yes, that's always true in the islands.


I trained at the chinese buddhist center the place you ' re talking about , but I was training with a different club called jung mo ( Chinese Physical Culture Assn. )
I was ' nt training with GM Kong , but my good friend Jace was , he knows about GM Kong , then later he learned the lion dance from Sifu Mak Fai at that time . What I think is the other clubs that do lion dancing , they adopted Sifu Maks' way of bowing when you open the lion dance performance .


I liked to watch the Jing Mo group but didn't know anyone in it. Some of them seemed a little suspicious of us. Our sifu started using the building on alternate days from the late '60s.

By the way, Cheuk Tse was the first to bring lion dance to Honolulu. We had the senior lions, and because of his high rank in the Hung Mun other lions had to bow to ours. Other schools felt the need for their own lions after Cheuk started teaching. He learned from white crane founder Ng Siu Jung.


... were you training with GM Kong too ? When I read your thread post you sound like you ' re in the mainland somewhere ? What made you leave Hawaii , for college or a new job ? . And jdhowland , I know about the politics too about the kung fu club and schools in hawaii in general . Even now , I have to think what I will write on this topic thread .

I never trained with Kong sifu and only met him once but I had a neighbor who was a student of his. I am in Alaska, now. Left the islands in 1985 to take care of my mother when she became ill. Still miss the place. Miss the people even more. Hawaii and Alaska have a lot in common. Both are conquered Pacific nations separated from "da mainland."

I understand your reticence about commenting because of politics. So many times I have wanted to join a discussion or clarify something on this forum. But when you realize that we are talking about men who have done things that cannot be mentioned publicly, well you sometimes have to hold your tongue, pen, keyboard...whatever.

[lance]

Yes, that's always true in the islands.



I liked to watch the Jing Mo group but didn't know anyone in it. Some of them seemed a little suspicious of us. Our sifu started using the building on alternate days from the late '60s.

By the way, Cheuk Tse was the first to bring lion dance to Honolulu. We had the senior lions, and because of his high rank in the Hung Mun other lions had to bow to ours. Other schools felt the need for their own lions after Cheuk started teaching. He learned from white crane founder Ng Siu Jung.



I never trained with Kong sifu and only met him once but I had a neighbor who was a student of his. I am in Alaska, now. Left the islands in 1985 to take care of my mother when she became ill. Still miss the place. Miss the people even more. Hawaii and Alaska have a lot in common. Both are conquered Pacific nations separated from "da mainland."

I understand your reticence about commenting because of politics. So many times I have wanted to join a discussion or clarify something on this forum. But when you realize that we are talking about men who have done things that cannot be mentioned publicly, well you sometimes have to hold your tongue, pen, keyboard...whatever. Jdhowland , thanks for sharing information with concerning Cheuk Tse , I saw his lion dance once at the Brave Archer Movie starring Alexander Fu Sheng . Proffessor Cheuk his lion dance is awesome with lots of low kicks and sweeps . I taught it was choy li fut moves , but now that you mentioned it , thanks for correcting me . But his lion dance was awesome . And you mentioned hun mun ? Is that a kung fu club or a chinese society ? Or some kind of a group ? My friend David and my 2 - cousins was involved with Cheuk Tse too . Now Cheuk is involved with this Chi Kung tong Society , theres' a video on youtube , proffessor cheuk was blessing 6 - new lions , this is the way they do hoi gong in Hawaii . And Jeff Lam is the Sifu of the Chinese Lion Dance Association , and I heard that he ' s learning from proffessor cheuk now . Jdhowland , do you know if cheuk speaks chinese or english ? I do know that is assistant teacher Sifu Dennis Apele is now teaching under Cheuk too .

When I trained in Jung Moo at that emple we ' re talking about now , I saw the school sign Cheuk ' s Kung Fu Academy , and when I was in intermediate school in Hawaii , I met 2 - people who is learning from Proffessor Cheuk Tse , because their father is involved with the class . Jdhowland , Who is your sifu when you were learning kung fu in Hawaii ? What year did Proffessor Cheuk teach kung fu classes in Hawaii ? Because , at that time there were Lung Kong , Kuo Min Tang , and Gee Yung Physical Culture Club . And GM Kong ' s club and Cheuk ' s kung fu academy .
Because , when I was a young kid I forgot how old I was , but I saw alot of lion heads in the Hawaii News Paper . Today there are more lion dance clubs in Hawaii than kung fu / lion dance clubs , but it does ' nt really matter , because the public has a wide variety of clubs they can plug in with for their special occasions , or to learn lion dance or kung fu / lion dance . Anyway , you sound like you were once a member of one of those kung fu club in Hawaii , so that ' s why I ' m asking you questions ? My mom is in a carehome too in Hawaii . Well , take care of your mom , and you won ' t regret it should anything happen .

[jdhowland]

...Proffessor Cheuk his lion dance is awesome with lots of low kicks and sweeps . I taught it was choy li fut moves , but now that you mentioned it , thanks for correcting me . But his lion dance was awesome .

No, you're right. We used CLF hoi sau in our lion routine. Cheuk is CLF, as well as white crane an hop ga. Our drumming is white crane.


And you mentioned hun mun ? Is that a kung fu club or a chinese society ? Or some kind of a group ? My friend David and my 2 - cousins was involved with Cheuk Tse too . Now Cheuk is involved with this Chi Kung tong Society , theres' a video on youtube , proffessor cheuk was blessing 6 - new lions , this is the way they do hoi gong in Hawaii . And Jeff Lam is the Sifu of the Chinese Lion Dance Association , and I heard that he ' s learning from proffessor cheuk now . Jdhowland , do you know if cheuk speaks chinese or english ? I do know that is assistant teacher Sifu Dennis Apele is now teaching under Cheuk too .

Chi Kung is Hung Mun. Wo Li Wo is Hung Mun. Their hearts are red. Same-same.

Lam sifu is a treasure. Really knows martial arts, too.

Cheuk's English is pretty good.




When I trained in Jung Moo at that temple we ' re talking about now , I saw the school sign Cheuk ' s Kung Fu Academy , and when I was in intermediate school in Hawaii , I met 2 - people who is learning from Proffessor Cheuk Tse , because their father is involved with the class . Jdhowland , Who is your sifu when you were learning kung fu in Hawaii ? What year did Proffessor Cheuk teach kung fu classes in Hawaii ? Because , at that time there were Lung Kong , Kuo Min Tang , and Gee Yung Physical Culture Club . And GM Kong ' s club and Cheuk ' s kung fu academy .

Cheuk is my only sifu in Hawaii. I also did Derobio escrima, naginata, Shinto Muso Ryu and Danzan Ryu jujitsu in the islands, but only Cheuk for Chinese arts.



Because , when I was a young kid I forgot how old I was , but I saw a lot of lion heads in the Hawaii News Paper . Today there are more lion dance clubs in Hawaii than kung fu / lion dance clubs , but it does'nt really matter , because the public has a wide variety of clubs they can plug in with for their special occasions , or to learn lion dance or kung fu / lion dance . Anyway , you sound like you were once a member of one of those kung fu club in Hawaii , so that ' s why I ' m asking you questions ? My mom is in a carehome too in Hawaii . Well , take care of your mom , and you won ' t regret it should anything happen .

The family associations and tongs have their own lion and kung fu clubs. Some are private, some more open. The commercial schools are rare because it is so expensive to find space. I was lucky to find Cheuk sifu in 1974 because there was no advertising or yellow pages add. As far as I have been able to confirm, Cheuk was the first person to teach a "Lama" style (White Crane and Hop Ga) in the U.S. He taught in San Francisco first and moved to Hawaii around 1968.

[YouKnowWho]

"weapons have no family" ...

Unfortunately some systems like to add their style flavor into it and make the weapon forrm look so funny.

- Baji system puts power generation into their sword form.
- Taiji system make their sowrd form slow.
- ...

[jdhowland]

You remember who your sifu was that taught you that daan dou set in Hawaii ?
I ' m from Hawaii , was that sifu Mak Fai by any chance ?

I recently learned that Mak Hin Fai taught at Kong's school and that he was probably the source of fuh mei daan dou in Hawaii.