Swimming no good for losing weight?

[Gowgee]

Hi there!

I'm trying to decide whether to go with swimming or jumping rope as an aerobic workout to lose weight. I've worn down the cartilage in one of my big toes, so am thinking of discounting running, but think swimming or jumping rope may be good options. The only thing is, someone has suggested swimming is no good for losing weight, with the rationale being one doesn't sweat enough in the water or something. Any thoughts?

[mickey]

Greetings Gowgee,

Swimming is one of the best all round exercises one can do. While jumping rope is good, you need to pay attention to your toe -- it will really come into play when jumping up and down. And I don't think that is something you really want right now???

You may also check to see if there is some kind of footing you can wear in the water.

On the other hand, if you live in a safe area, you can always get a pair of good construction boots and do some powerwalking. Developed by the late Steve Reeves, a second edition of his book was recently put out.


mickey

[bawang]

have u tried eating less

I hear it does wonders

[MarathonTmatt]

Some intense bicycling could work. I recently rode my bicycle all day everyday for about half a week and I noticed results in my abs- make sure you get some challenging terrain like large rolling hills or in the mountains to push yourself. No matter how bad the uphill is keep pushing on. The circular motions of pedaling are also healthy for joints/ tendons etc. and mounting onto the bicycle is almost like horse stance.

[Gowgee]

Mickey and MarathonTmatt,

Thanks for the great suggestions! Mickey, I heard from an ex-boxer that you can jump rope on the balls of your foot rather than hyper extend the toes, but swimming seems the smarter option.

And Bawang,

Thanks for the insightful yet tongue in cheek suggestion. You've taken the correct and hit it out of the ballpark! Definitely got this as part of my plan.

[Oso]

long fast walks, hiking, check the ratio of your food, you can do wonders by simply reducing carb intake...especially anything 'white'...but get rid of bread and pasta...eat more veggies, eat more protein.

[YouKnowWho]

have u tried eating less

I hear it does wonders

I had tried not to eating for 3 days. I lose 5 lb. Not sure what I lost was water or fat.

"8 miles walking" will be very good. In the 1st 4 miles, your body will detect your body problems. In your 2nd 4 miles, your body starts to fix your body problems.

[Oso]

not eating at all triggers the body to start conserving calories.

eat breakfast, mostly protein, and you tell your body "there is plenty of food to be had'' and it doesn't start conserving. then, MOVE, man, MOVE!

there is the 'grazing' concept...but, doesn't work if you're grazing doritos or French fries. veggies, few fruits (hi sugar content), nuts, meat

[Alex Córdoba]

Why wood you go jumping?

http://www.colourbox.com/preview/5132380-587894-woman-in-swimming-pool.jpg

[mickey]

Freudian slip ALERT:

"Why wood you go jumping?"



mickey

[madhusudan]

have u tried eating less

I hear it does wonders

You cannot out-exercise a bad diet. A fairly significant workout is equal to like one or two beers. (Yes, I measure things in suds.)

For weight loss, get your intake under control. Once your new eating habits have become routine, then it's time to incorporate exercise. If you try to do both together at once, you may succeed. I just think this way has a higher chance of getting it right.

In direct response to your question, try not to worry so much about which exercise is better than another. The best is the one you stick with.

It's a bit surprising nobody here has mentioned the whole "swimming doesn't make you sweat, so it's not good" part of your post yet. If that is not a joke, I advise you to educate yourself in the rudiments of exercise science.

[Alex Córdoba]

Freudian slip ALERT:

"Why wood you go jumping?"



mickey

oh I see, would :)

[Gowgee]

long fast walks, hiking, check the ratio of your food, you can do wonders by simply reducing carb intake...especially anything 'white'...but get rid of bread and pasta...eat more veggies, eat more protein.

Thanks Oso. Why is cutting out the carbs so important??

[Gowgee]

In direct response to your question, try not to worry so much about which exercise is better than another. The best is the one you stick with.

It's a bit surprising nobody here has mentioned the whole "swimming doesn't make you sweat, so it's not good" part of your post yet. If that is not a joke, I advise you to educate yourself in the rudiments of exercise science.

madhusudan, I'm all ears! Do you have any suggestions for learning the basics of exercise science? Going into my 40s, I want to prevent injuries and make sure I'm doing things as well as possible.

[Scott R. Brown]

I've been a jump roper and I've been a competitive swimmer, the only thing I've ever done that comes close to swimming for aerobic conditioning and weight loss is rowing and a certain form I learned a long time ago.

The best thing about swimming is, you can't injure yourself swimming, but you can get ear infections if you don't get the water out of your ears when you are done.

[Oso]

Thanks Oso. Why is cutting out the carbs so important??

cutting out carbs from empty carbs is important. eliminate excess carbs, especially 'empty' carbs that don't contain any micronutrients.

if you have excess body fat, you have no need for more carbs than necessary to keep brain function optimal. and if you eat plenty of low sugar vegetables, you will get ample carbs for resting needs.

any carbs needed for sustained exercise will be metabolized from the stored fat...and, that's the point, right?...that's how it works. you don't 'burn' fat for energy per se...as in your muscles don't use fat/lipids for energy...the fat get's changed to ATP in a process I can't begin to remember or describe...er...


The Energy source for muscle contraction is ATP, which is continuously regenerated during exercise from phosphocreatine hydrolysis, anaerobic metabolism of glycogen or glucose, or aerobic metabolism of acetyl-coA derived principally form the breakdown of carbohydrate or fat. The carbon skeleton of amino acids can be used as a fuel for oxidative metabolism but is not a major fuel for energy production during exercise.

Several factors influence the type of substrate used to fuel muscular work, including substrate availability, diet, intensity and duration of exercise, training status, hormones, prior exercise and environmental conditions. Fat ocidation makes and increasing contribution to ATP regeneration as exercise duration increases. IN exercise lasting several hours, fat may supply as much as 80% of the total energy required.

Endurance training increases the capacity of muscle to oxidize fat.


--from the 'Key Points' summary of Chapter 2, "Sport Nutrition: An Introduction to Energy Production and Performance"
Publisher: Human Kinetics
Authors: Jeukendrup & Gleeson
ISBN: 0736034048


so, my main point being to reduce the availability of other substrates (carbs) so that your body is forced to go for the oxidation of fats for ATP. Which means, in simplest terms: reduce the intake of carbs and exercise long enough to deplete the stored carbs in your muscles and blood so that you start tapping the stored fat. In the beginning that means longer sessions. But, as your daily intake of carbs drops, and your stored glucose/glycogen pools are lowered somewhat, you will start tapping the fat sooner (I think...as that's my opinion)

good luck.



the problem being, for me, to practice what I know...lol.

[madhusudan]

This seems like decent basic introductory information:

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health//dci/Diseases/phys/phys_types.html

You want to eventually incorporate all of the types of exercise listed in that link into your routine.

It is also common advice to seek out chances to move more in daily life. At work I try to stay active by taking a 20 min walk during a break or by doing stances, wall sits and stretching in my office. The more breaks I take, the more work I get done too - to a point.

Developing good habits and making progress towards a desired end is in itself rewarding and will provide you with positive feedback, further reinforcing your decisions and motivating you to do more.

Hope that is useful.

[SoCo KungFu]

Your friend is right. Swimming is great for aerobic conditioning, not so good for shedding inches from your waist. Aerobics and weight loss are not the same thing. His comment on, "it doesn't let you sweat enough" is a symptom. The problem is cutting weight is not about intensely working your body to stress oxygen carrying capacity (aerobic conditioning). Its about a sustained burn over a prolonged period of time. The issue with swimming is this. You'll be in water approx 70-73 degrees F, unless you have access to a heated pool. You'll have a minor increase in metabolism from the effects of your body trying to keep warm. But, and this is important, your metabolism doesn't remain elevated as long after you are done working out, as it would with other exercises. You'll burn calories while swimming, but once you stop, your gains stop there as well. Further, most people experience increased hunger after exposure to cold temps. Rat studies have shown circulating leptin concentration is decreased following cold exposure (leptin deficiency drives hunger sensation). So if you aren't paying attention, you're going to eat more. And if you aren't used to swimming, you are going to be huffing for air very quickly. This means you slow down or stop, meaning less calories burned.

Swimming is a great working, but not very good for losing weight. Of course, if you have a lot to lose, anything is better than nothing. But getting on a bike will be more effective. And nothing will really matter if you don't diet control.

[Vash]

I would disagree with SoCo in a very respectful manner. Technically speaking (according to ACSM and NSCA) swimming is the most metabolically taxing exercise [2nd to martial arts] when trained at full intensity.

Provided the swimming is not leisurely, and you are in a caloric deficit, you'll be able to drop some fat. May not see the scale shift much, but you will have less body fat.

If you're only mildly uncomfortable, you need to increase intensity so that, for a majority of the time, you're basically ready to quit. And have a decent time investment per workout.

Of course, additional resistance training (rep range not super important, so long as the load doesn't make you stop after 2 reps or let you go for 20+) and non-exercise activity would be helpful and healthy.

[SoCo KungFu]

I would disagree with SoCo in a very respectful manner. Technically speaking (according to ACSM and NSCA) swimming is the most metabolically taxing exercise [2nd to martial arts] when trained at full intensity.

Provided the swimming is not leisurely, and you are in a caloric deficit, you'll be able to drop some fat. May not see the scale shift much, but you will have less body fat.

If you're only mildly uncomfortable, you need to increase intensity so that, for a majority of the time, you're basically ready to quit. And have a decent time investment per workout.

Of course, additional resistance training (rep range not super important, so long as the load doesn't make you stop after 2 reps or let you go for 20+) and non-exercise activity would be helpful and healthy.

If by "ready to quit" you're talking about pushing intensity to the point of cardiovascular fatigue, then in the context of swimming, you are now entering anaerobic conditioning. That's a completely different metabolic loop and not very conducive to weight loss. Running or cycling you can still suck air. Swimming you either stop or push through on limited breaths.

I'm not arguing that swimming is not metabolically taxing while you are doing it. But after you stop, the metabolic draw also stops. And which metabolic pathway you are ranged in (aerobic, anaerobic, fermentative [not the same as anaerobic, too many people think that's the case]) depending on intensity, body temp, etc. determines what level of benefit you are getting towards your targeted goal.

[ShaolinDan]

Actually you do sweat when you swim, you just don't realize it. My swim coach in high school was always reminding us to stay hydrated. Anyway, sweating is irrelevant to long-term weight loss.
The reason swimming isn't so great for weight loss is that your heart rate doesn't get as high as it does from running. However, swimming is great for your physique.

[Vash]

If by "ready to quit" you're talking about pushing intensity to the point of cardiovascular fatigue, then in the context of swimming, you are now entering anaerobic conditioning. That's a completely different metabolic loop and not very conducive to weight loss. Running or cycling you can still suck air. Swimming you either stop or push through on limited breaths.

I'm not arguing that swimming is not metabolically taxing while you are doing it. But after you stop, the metabolic draw also stops. And which metabolic pathway you are ranged in (aerobic, anaerobic, fermentative [not the same as anaerobic, too many people think that's the case]) depending on intensity, body temp, etc. determines what level of benefit you are getting towards your targeted goal.

Generally, I agree with this. However, with swimming there is the repeated exposure to the training stimulus to consider; there will often be enough swimming sessions in a short time to elicit a body fat loss. You will be using glycolysis and moving into the Krebs as the dominant energetic method usually. But, if there is sufficient 'exhaustive' effort in each session, fat loss (and attendant subcutaneous water loss) will occur.

Looking at my records of currently active clients, I have nine who, in addition to martial arts training and resistance training, added in 'extra-heavy' swimming sessions for 3-5 days a week, and they saw fat loss in excess of 15% over 6 months. A small sample pool, certainly, but enough in my professional opinion to say swimming would be a much better suggestion for added cardiovascular work for Gowgee's goals of weight loss.

[Gowgee]

Time to put this into practice! Let me get back to you in a few weeks on my progress.
Thanks for your input everyone :-)

[Throwaway Child]

In my opinion swimming is the #1 exercise

except for the dangerous part - where you can drown



Honestly swimming is the best & low impact on the joints

this diet will cost you $100 every two weeks
I buy
70 eggs
4 loaves of bread
70 pieces of fruit
5 gallons of milk
4 - 2 lb bags of carrots -
& for green stuff - I eat Your body needs Green vegetables as well from my home garden

8 am-
egg whites
whole Grain toast 2 pieces
fresh fruit
skim milk - 8 oz

11 am
fresh fruit
whole grain bread
egg whites
skim milk - 8 oz

2 pm
grapefruit
apple
egg white
skim milk - 8 oz
rice

5 pm
orange
egg white
vegetable salad - my vegetable salad usually consists of two carrots
skim milk -8 oz

8 pm
egg white
vegetable salad
whole grain bread

diet taken from the book Hardcore body building - a scientific approach ---- page 193 - an example of a fat loss diet


or go to jail - they won't feed you enough to stay alive -

[Scott R. Brown]

or go to jail - they won't feed you enough to stay alive -

Not in California, they get 4500 calories a day in here!

[kfman5F]

I knew a guy who lost a ton of weight by doing one simple thing. He stopped eating by 7 pm and drank water after. He ate whatever he wanted and did no exercise and the weight flew off. It definitely worked for him.

[David Jamieson]

Cut bread and white sugar from your diet completely and prepare to be amazed.

all bread, all flour.

also, no soda pop, no candies.

eat whole foods only in 1/3 -1/3-1/3 portions. Protein/complex carbs/clear fats
meat, veg and water basically. easy on dairy.

Pretty much guaranteed to cut your weight down even without exercise.
Oh. and portioning is important.

when you eat whole foods, you don't feel hungry all the time. When you eat carbs, you do feel hungry all the time.

[Syn7]

I only eat whole foods too. I find that on the odd occasion when I do indulge, I pay for it later.

If I could only choose one exercise activity, it would be swimming. It also has a liberating element that you just don't get anywhere else, and that appeals to me.

[YouKnowWho]

I knew a guy who lost a ton of weight by doing one simple thing. He stopped eating by 7 pm and drank water after. He ate whatever he wanted and did no exercise and the weight flew off. It definitely worked for him.
This guy doesn't eat after 2pm. He is in his 70 now. He once said that any girl over 18 is too old for him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeAki05r8ZI

[David Jamieson]

Well guys, hate to break a bubble here, but my mom is 77, eats whatever the heck she likes, when she likes, doesn't exercise much beyond walking, enjoys a little alcohol and she smokes since she was a young woman.

The only thing I think of when people go on about longevity is their own fear of dying. Don't be afraid is probably the best health advice you can get. Most of the diet stuff outside of "don't eat a bunch of chemical crap" gets flipped every few years back and forth and really is meaningless.

Eat whole foods to feel better. Avoid chemicals to not feel burnt out. None of it will effect what age you die lest you abuse yourself and who knows, maybe you'll get hit by a meteorite.

We all gonna die. It doesn't matter when we get to. Being afraid to die at an old age is pointless. Eat well and practice for quality of life, not Length of years.

[sanjuro_ronin]

More and more science is proving that it isn't so much WHAT you eat but how much and, perhaps more importantly, GENETICS.
Also, lack of stress.
People that have lived over 100 years AND are active all have one thing in common:
It is NOT exercise or certain foods or even where they live.
It is genetics.
It is keeping active ALL their life and especially their "senior years" ( which does NOT = exercise).
Knowing how to "control" stress.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I tried my hand at a type of "hunter-gather" diet a while back.
Basically you can eat only what is either "killable" (LOL) or can be gathered and cooked ( or eat raw).
So, ex:
Chicken, beef, fish, eggs is ok ( milk is a bit debatable since mammals don't drink milk when they can eat solid foods and I don't do milk anyways because I am lactose intolerant).
Nuts, veggies and fruits is ok.
As for cereals and grains, if it needs to be "processed" or "refined" from it's "natural state", it is a no-no.
So, no pasta, breads, rice and so forth.

It was OK, I lost weight ( any change in diet that eliminates certain foods will do this from my experience) and felt good.

BUT, I like bread and pasta and rice !!

Moderation is the key.

[Jimbo]

More and more science is proving that it isn't so much WHAT you eat but how much and, perhaps more importantly, GENETICS.
Also, lack of stress.
People that have lived over 100 years AND are active all have one thing in common:
It is NOT exercise or certain foods or even where they live.
It is genetics.
It is keeping active ALL their life and especially their "senior years" ( which does NOT = exercise).
Knowing how to "control" stress.

Very true.

Also, there is attitude and expectation. I have heard some people in their mid-late 20s and 30s calling themselves 'old', and some in their 60s and 70s who look great, are mentally sharp and consider themselves 'young'. Over time, your beliefs of self-image become a self-fulfilling prophecy. When I was young, the whole 'mind-body connection' thing seemed either vague to me or like a bunch of hooey, but it is clear that they are inseparable.

[YouKnowWho]

Very true.

Also, there is attitude and expectation. I have heard some people in their mid-late 20s and 30s calling themselves 'old', and some in their 60s and 70s who look great, are mentally sharp and consider themselves 'young'. Over time, your beliefs of self-image become a self-fulfilling prophecy. When I was young, the whole 'mind-body connection' thing seemed either vague to me or like a bunch of hooey, but it is clear that they are inseparable.
If you train TCMA for

- health when you are 30, you are old.
- combat when you are 70, you are young.

Most of my friends trained long fist when they were young. Now they all switch to Taiji or Bagua. I trained Taiji when I was young. Now I only train combat.

[JamesC]

I tried my hand at a type of "hunter-gather" diet a while back.
Basically you can eat only what is either "killable" (LOL) or can be gathered and cooked ( or eat raw).
So, ex:
Chicken, beef, fish, eggs is ok ( milk is a bit debatable since mammals don't drink milk when they can eat solid foods and I don't do milk anyways because I am lactose intolerant).
Nuts, veggies and fruits is ok.
As for cereals and grains, if it needs to be "processed" or "refined" from it's "natural state", it is a no-no.
So, no pasta, breads, rice and so forth.

It was OK, I lost weight ( any change in diet that eliminates certain foods will do this from my experience) and felt good.

BUT, I like bread and pasta and rice !!

Moderation is the key.

I love fad diets. They entertain me.

I don't know what's so hard about using a common sense diet. Just eat less processed foods. Leaner meats, eat more whole grain, fruits, vegetables, etc. it really is that simple. And if you happen to eat something "bad" once in a while it doesn't mean you've failed your diet. One meal doesn't make that much difference in the grand scheme.

[Raipizo]

More and more science is proving that it isn't so much WHAT you eat but how much and, perhaps more importantly, GENETICS.
Also, lack of stress.
People that have lived over 100 years AND are active all have one thing in common:
It is NOT exercise or certain foods or even where they live.
It is genetics.
It is keeping active ALL their life and especially their "senior years" ( which does NOT = exercise).
Knowing how to "control" stress.

I think exercise helps a lot, but even just being active doing chores and the garden and stuff helps. This book is pretty good, talks about a lot of the topics http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Worlds-Longest-Living-People/dp/1569243484
Maybe check it out from the library or something, I got it from a garage sale for $1.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I love fad diets. They entertain me.

I don't know what's so hard about using a common sense diet. Just eat less processed foods. Leaner meats, eat more whole grain, fruits, vegetables, etc. it really is that simple. And if you happen to eat something "bad" once in a while it doesn't mean you've failed your diet. One meal doesn't make that much difference in the grand scheme.

Yep, agreed.
Though I am on the fence about the "whole grains" thing...

[Vash]

Yep, agreed.
Though I am on the fence about the "whole grains" thing...

Essential amino acids - check.
Essential fatty acids - check.
Essential carbohydrates - no check.

I'm really digging running ultra low carb all day; the night before a weights workout, going carb/protein (90/10 ratio). Have dropped quite a bit of body fat (from 16 to 12% as of yesterday), have more energy, still appx 185#.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Essential amino acids - check.
Essential fatty acids - check.
Essential carbohydrates - no check.

I'm really digging running ultra low carb all day; the night before a weights workout, going carb/protein (90/10 ratio). Have dropped quite a bit of body fat (from 16 to 12% as of yesterday), have more energy, still appx 185#.

And you can get all that they have from fruits and nuts and everything else...

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/01/02/truth-about-eating-grains.aspx


http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/#axzz2dMSfMgCO

Just saying...

[madhusudan]

I pretty much agree with the idea of moderation and eating whatever. Look at pictures of people from the 40s and 50s. Men were generally thin and wiry-strong. They mostly ate a diet of meat, veggies and potatoes, rice or pasta.

One of the things I tell myself that seems to work is: Do not indulge unless you have to. What I mean is, there are already enough holidays, birthdays and other occasions for beer, wine, cake and that extra plate of something special. I don't need to give in on a random Tuesday. If I keep to moderation most of the time, there's no problem with going overboard on those days.

However, do you think there's much to the claim that the wheat of today is different than it was back then due to selective breeding? I think it's been pretty much confirmed that the produce we get at chain grocery stores has had much of the nutrition bred out of it in place of commercially profitable traits like size, weight and early ripening.

[David Jamieson]

Take a look around your family. Providing you are not adopted that is.
But if your family members are dying in their 60s or 70s, likelihood is high that so shall you. Exercise and healthful practice doesn't trump the genes you are born with. they will give you a better quality of life though.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Take a look around your family. Providing you are not adopted that is.
But if your family members are dying in their 60s or 70s, likelihood is high that so shall you. Exercise and healthful practice doesn't trump the genes you are born with. they will give you a better quality of life though.

Barring unforeseen illness of course, yes I agree.

[madhusudan]

Take a look around your family. Providing you are not adopted that is.
But if your family members are dying in their 60s or 70s, likelihood is high that so shall you. Exercise and healthful practice doesn't trump the genes you are born with. they will give you a better quality of life though.

In the spirit of debate, I respectfully offer a somewhat different take.

Genes are expressed in an environment. We can see this in how average height has increased in Asia after more protein and better general nutrition became available. As another example, smoking does not cause cancer. It creates an environment in which there is a higher likelihood that cancer may be expressed by your particular genes. Hence the anecdotal "My grandpappy smoked for 80 years and died in a car accident." So, while, "Exercise and healthful practice doesn't trump the genes you are born with" it can create a state in which 'negative' gene traits are not expressed.

If your family members die in their 60s or 70s and you live a similar lifestyle, in all likelihood you will too. If you live a much healthier lifestyle, your chances of a longer life have increased but are not guaranteed. Of course, barring trauma, as SR stated.

[David Jamieson]

In the spirit of debate, I respectfully offer a somewhat different take.

Genes are expressed in an environment. We can see this in how average height has increased in Asia after more protein and better general nutrition became available. As another example, smoking does not cause cancer. It creates an environment in which there is a higher likelihood that cancer may be expressed by your particular genes. Hence the anecdotal "My grandpappy smoked for 80 years and died in a car accident." So, while, "Exercise and healthful practice doesn't trump the genes you are born with" it can create a state in which 'negative' gene traits are not expressed.

If your family members die in their 60s or 70s and you live a similar lifestyle, in all likelihood you will too. If you live a much healthier lifestyle, your chances of a longer life have increased but are not guaranteed. Of course, barring trauma, as SR stated.

I think we are all in agreeance. You are going another layer deeper and such though in regards to the element of evolution. At least the mutation, adaptation and survival of the fittest portion of it. Seeing as the genetic drift portion only occurs through sex and birth.