1 technique, or 1000

[MightyB]

Do you have any "game changers" in your style? What's that 1 technique that defines your style? Have you explored it in all ranges? Can you make it work? Are you missing a valuable opportunity with what's been given to you in your traditional training?

---
For me, it's the du sau. With patience, and if it's properly explored and trained, then, in theory, it should really be all that I need in a self defense or martial sport (with open fingered grappling gloves). Now there's a lot more to my style that's fascinating and worth exploring and combat effective, but without that fundamental du sau which can be used to great effect in the famous ou lou choi or just punching directly off of the hook with my other hand, then there's no mantis. But it's a real bread and butter technique. It's worth investing in. Do you have that in your style?

[bawang]

haymaker is the heart of longfist

[YouKnowWho]

du sau which can be used to great effect in the famous ou lou choi ...

In the grappling art, the "搂手(Lou Shou)" is used more often than the "钩手(Gou Shou)" for 2 reasons:

- When you use left "搂手(Lou Shou)" on your opponent's right wrist, your thumb is facing down and on the right (your left) of his right arm. This will force him to rotate his right arm counter-clockwise (your clockwise), which will give you a chance to move your left hand "inside and on top" of his right upper arm.

- You can apply double "搂手(Lou Shou)" and control both your opponent's arms at the same time. When you can achieve that, you have force your opponent to play your grappling game and not his striking game.

[SPJ]

In Ba Ji fist,

we stress "kao".

We kao da and kao shuai.

We may use forearm, elbow, shoulder/hip, or chest/back to kao.

We build everything else on that.

:)

[David Jamieson]

haymaker is the heart of longfist

sun fist is the heart of it from my reckoing.

[bawang]

sun fist is the heart of it from my reckoing.

you are trolling me? what is sun fist?

[xcakid]

Groin kick and eye poke/gouge. Its in every martial art out there. Yet no one uses it. :confused: Best freaking technique out there. I personally have used them in "altercations" Slows them down long enough to
1) be able to flee
2) give your buddies time to come and help ya
3) pull out a weapon and go to town on them.

[YouKnowWho]

1 technique, or 1000

I'll not just say "1 technique" but "1 group of techniques".

In order to use "head lock", you have to train leg twist, leg lift, leg spring, inner heel sweep, shin bite, leg block, outer twist, front cut, foot sweep, shoulder pulling, crack, ... You have to train about 25 techniques in order to support your "head lock". The "head lock" is the root of a tree. Ther are many branches and leafs that can grow out of that root.


In Ba Ji fist,

we stress "kao".

We kao da and kao shuai.

We may use forearm, elbow, shoulder/hip, or chest/back to kao.

We build everything else on that.

:)

You can use Kao to set up knee seize, inner hook, hip throw, leg block, leg lift, ...

[No_Know]

Breathe in.

In Squirrel, if I get to breathe in, then there might be possibilities.

[Note:I put other than inhale--I put breathe-in or breath-in].

No_Know

[-N-]

Do you have any "game changers" in your style? What's that 1 technique that defines your style? Have you explored it in all ranges? Can you make it work? Are you missing a valuable opportunity with what's been given to you in your traditional training?

---
For me, it's the du sau. With patience, and if it's properly explored and trained, then, in theory, it should really be all that I need in a self defense or martial sport (with open fingered grappling gloves). Now there's a lot more to my style that's fascinating and worth exploring and combat effective, but without that fundamental du sau which can be used to great effect in the famous ou lou choi or just punching directly off of the hook with my other hand, then there's no mantis. But it's a real bread and butter technique. It's worth investing in. Do you have that in your style?

I don't define the style by the technique, but more the principles or how the style uses the techniques.

Every style has basically the same techniques, but it's all about what you emphasize and how.

For Mantis, I think in terms of control and attack. It is smart type of aggression that is conservative in leaving little to chance.

For me, I could still do Mantis if I never used another diu sau again.

[-N-]

In the grappling art, the "搂手(Lou Shou)" is used more often than the "钩手(Gou Shou)"

I use the lou a lot more than the gou.

But in terms of the principle behind gou, I do use it a lot.

[-N-]

1 technique, or 1000

I'll not just say "1 technique" but "1 group of techniques".

In order to use "head lock", you have to train leg twist, leg lift, leg spring, inner heel sweep, shin bite, leg block, outer twist, front cut, foot sweep, shoulder pulling, crack, ...

I would call that the principle of leg trap/control to support your attacks.

[-N-]

Diu sau/diao shou is one of the most insignificant components of Tanglang.

Thank you!

Glad I'm not the only one that thinks that.

Most don't seem to see it that way.

[B.Tunks]

Thank you!

Glad I'm not the only one that thinks that.

Most don't seem to see it that way.

ha ha, you beat me to it. I deleted the post because I didn't want to be rude to MB. Anyway it stands. It is overrated and has very limited use. I'm not sure MB is actually referring to diao shou by his description anyway. More like the principle of cai.

[B.Tunks]

or probably just 'gou'. diao shou is a very specific technique and although it involves the hook, it is the retracting single hook.

[Syn7]

It's quite clear that you can go pretty far in a sport setting with a small set of high percentage techniques.

When you get into street and weapons, it get's a lil murky. But, personally, I believe the same methodology applies. Not to say there are catch all techniques for all weapons, but individually this applies. Like a set for knife defence, staff, stick, sidearm etc etc...

It really comes down to your goals and priorities. If street defence is your goal, you are best served to be a jack of all trades. To be at least functional in all likely scenarios.

"Jack of all trades master of none, often better than a master of one." is the real quote that is, more often than not, taken out of context and used incorrectly.

[Syn7]

Groin kick and eye poke/gouge. Its in every martial art out there. Yet no one uses it. :confused: Best freaking technique out there. I personally have used them in "altercations" Slows them down long enough to
1) be able to flee
2) give your buddies time to come and help ya
3) pull out a weapon and go to town on them.

You know, I have issue with the groin kick and the eye poke. If you are fighting a competent opponent, it's hard enough to land a solid punch, let alone get a finger in the eye, especially on the street.

Quick story. There was a guy who was being a douche and I stood up to him for somebody else. He was a bully, straight up. I had no intention on combat, I just wanted to protect his victim. We had words, I said what I had to say and was quite aggressive in my speech. He took a defensive posture then outta nowhere kicked me in the nutts. That is when I decided to hurt him. And I did. Groin kicks hurt like hell, but they do not incapacitate the way people believe. All it did was **** me off to the point where I went a lil overboard and boot stomped the guy. He basically had a free shot at first strike, and he chose poorly.

[Lucas]

to build on that, i was having a debate with a female friend a few years about self defense. she didnt think that it was necessary to train any form of defensive awareness or combatives in regards to female sexual assaults. her reasoning was that she would just 'kick the guy in the balls'

i told her it was bs movie stuff and that it doesnt really effect a guy like they show in movies. especially an angry guy hell bent on raping you.

she didnt believe me so i gave her a free pass and stood there wide leg stance and told her to kick me in the nuts. she did, and ya it hurt like a beotch, but i immediately rushed her and took her to the ground and controlled her.

this event was especially gratifying since she was an ex. :D

[Lucas]

as far as eye gouging goes, im of two minds.

eye poke/gouge strikes are next to worthless. a controlled gougue can take an eye out easily if you want to go that far. by controlled i mean exactly that, not trying to poke or strike an eye, but having a dominant controlled position that allows you to apply controlled force to the eyeball with a thumb or finger with the intended purpose of taking or damaging the eye, or getting a fear response by threatening to do so.

[Jimbo]

Regarding groin kick/eye poke:
In my observation, most experienced street-type fighters are well aware of these tactics, especially the groin kick. Depending on the person, the groin kick can incapacitate them, but don't count on it. For one thing, most men expect someone to try the ball shot...exceptions might include total non-fighters, and possibly some sport TKD/karate guys (for example) with no street experience. As already mentioned, more than likely it will p!ss off the recipient to even attempt it, and adrenaline often allows him to fight through the pain long enough to beat you down. If you try it, you'd better follow up immediately with other things and not rely on it as a fight-ender.

As far as eye attacks, if you've ever actually been thumbed in the eye, you know it hurts like a *****, and can be much more immediately incapacitating than a groin shot, if landed solidly. Most times they seem to happen by accident. In my teens, I took a thumb in the eye intended to be a punch, that I'm surprised didn't tear a retina nor had any lasting effects. I still rate it as the worst and most incapacitating pain ever. Immediately after the strike, I had my eye tightly closed, and when touching the lids, it felt like the eyeball had been 'pushed in'. Gradually I had the ability to open my eye and it was back to normal, though blurry for a bit.

[-N-]

Regarding groin kick/eye poke:
In my observation, most experienced street-type fighters are well aware of these tactics, especially the groin kick. Depending on the person, the groin kick can incapacitate them, but don't count on it.

Results can vary.

I did see one guy get get kicked hard enough to crack his groin cup. He passed out from the pain.

But yeah, follow up.

[Yum Cha]

8 key combinations is our take. The Bast Faat.

You get 1, then another, then another, different students pick different ones in different orders based upon what they do well.... Not forms, fighting combos that come after forms. The pointy end of the stick.

And, seniors generally each develop a 'signature' move, or two.

Less is indeed more. IMHO. When it comes to fighting.

[Yum Cha]

Regarding groin kick/eye poke:
In my observation, most experienced street-type fighters are well aware of these tactics, especially the groin kick. Depending on the person, the groin kick can incapacitate them, but don't count on it. For one thing, most men expect someone to try the ball shot...exceptions might include total non-fighters, and possibly some sport TKD/karate guys (for example) with no street experience. As already mentioned, more than likely it will p!ss off the recipient to even attempt it, and adrenaline often allows him to fight through the pain long enough to beat you down. If you try it, you'd better follow up immediately with other things and not rely on it as a fight-ender.

As far as eye attacks, if you've ever actually been thumbed in the eye, you know it hurts like a *****, and can be much more immediately incapacitating than a groin shot, if landed solidly. Most times they seem to happen by accident. In my teens, I took a thumb in the eye intended to be a punch, that I'm surprised didn't tear a retina nor had any lasting effects. I still rate it as the worst and most incapacitating pain ever. Immediately after the strike, I had my eye tightly closed, and when touching the lids, it felt like the eyeball had been 'pushed in'. Gradually I had the ability to open my eye and it was back to normal, though blurry for a bit.

That eyeball pushed in thing sucks. Happened to me before, but from a punch, not a thumb. Buckled my knees.
Groin attacks (my experience) have a delay before the real pain kicks in, and in that small window, you can still strike back, if you don't freak.
Eye attacks make people flinch and shift more, even if you miss, and a light rake is massive distraction. This makes an opening maybe? Groin is a finisher.

[Syn7]

to build on that, i was having a debate with a female friend a few years about self defense. she didnt think that it was necessary to train any form of defensive awareness or combatives in regards to female sexual assaults. her reasoning was that she would just 'kick the guy in the balls'

i told her it was bs movie stuff and that it doesnt really effect a guy like they show in movies. especially an angry guy hell bent on raping you.

she didnt believe me so i gave her a free pass and stood there wide leg stance and told her to kick me in the nuts. she did, and ya it hurt like a beotch, but i immediately rushed her and took her to the ground and controlled her.

this event was especially gratifying since she was an ex. :D

You sir, are a brave man. Now, I can fight and cause harm under these conditions, but make no mistake, I really didn't like it. In fact it hurt enough for me to go from protecting an innocent to victimizing the bully. From a legal standpoint, after the first kick to the head, I was fully in the wrong. Yet I kept going and I don't regret it even a little bit. Thankfully, he was too much of a lil dick alpha wannabe to call the police, he just denied it ever happened to anyone who wasn't there. We actually had words again a few weeks later. I was totally bringing my knee in for that convo, lol.

[Syn7]

as far as eye gouging goes, im of two minds.

eye poke/gouge strikes are next to worthless. a controlled gougue can take an eye out easily if you want to go that far. by controlled i mean exactly that, not trying to poke or strike an eye, but having a dominant controlled position that allows you to apply controlled force to the eyeball with a thumb or finger with the intended purpose of taking or damaging the eye, or getting a fear response by threatening to do so.

Yeah, but if you are in the position to do that, you are in the wrong if you do it. That's my point, if you can outclass them so easily, why such harsh measures?

[Kellen Bassette]

haymaker is the heart of longfist

:)

Haymaker is the most instinctive technique there is. Children know it without trying. When I trained Karate I was always told haymaker is the worst punch, always trained to never use it, throwing haymaker meant you lost control.

In Kung Fu I was taught to use haymaker without being open. Kung Fu took natural movement and refined it, instead of doing away with it. I have always respected that.

My favorite technique is sidekick. It has served me so well, so many times. My bread and butter.

[Syn7]

:)

Haymaker is the most instinctive technique there is. Children know it without trying. When I trained Karate I was always told haymaker is the worst punch, always trained to never use it, throwing haymaker meant you lost control.

In Kung Fu I was taught to use haymaker without being open. Kung Fu took natural movement and refined it, instead of doing away with it. I have always respected that.

My favorite technique is sidekick. It has served me so well, so many times. My bread and butter.

As a finisher? To do damage? To keep distance? All the above?

I use front kick like a jab. I have never knocked anyone out with one. It would be nice, but my goal is to create distance and/or make them think twice about closing the gap.

[Kellen Bassette]

As a finisher? To do damage? To keep distance? All the above?

I use front kick like a jab. I have never knocked anyone out with one. It would be nice, but my goal is to create distance and/or make them think twice about closing the gap.

I usually use it as a counter when a punch is being thrown. Throw the kick at the same time and catch ribs or solar plexus. I've been able to knock the wind out of a lot of guys that way. I also use it for distance "teep" style.

Sidekick isn't good for KO because it's hard to land to the head. I think it's awesome for sending damage to the body though.

I never use front kick for damage, if it happens great, but that's never the goal. I use teep to control distance/set up attack and occasionally hop in snap kick to close distance, distract from the punch.

[Syn7]

I usually use it as a counter when a punch is being thrown. Throw the kick at the same time and catch ribs or solar plexus. I've been able to knock the wind out of a lot of guys that way. I also use it for distance "teep" style.

Sidekick isn't good for KO because it's hard to land to the head. I think it's awesome for sending damage to the body though.

I never use front kick for damage, if it happens great, but that's never the goal. I use teep to control distance/set up attack and occasionally hop in snap kick to close distance, distract from the punch.

Yeah, to be clear, I meant the push kick. So I'm with ya on that. It's a MT staple.

[bawang]

:)

Haymaker is the most instinctive technique there is. Children know it without trying. When I trained Karate I was always told haymaker is the worst punch, always trained to never use it, throwing haymaker meant you lost control.

In Kung Fu I was taught to use haymaker without being open. Kung Fu took natural movement and refined it, instead of doing away with it. I have always respected that.

My favorite technique is sidekick. It has served me so well, so many times. My bread and butter.

spirit of longfist is courage, and haymaker trains courage.

[YouKnowWho]

spirit of longfist is courage, and haymaker trains courage.

The SC "head lock" is "haymaker". You use your forearm to hit on the back of your opponent's head in clinching range, after you have knocked him 1/2 way out, you then lock his head and take him down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBktyN-aiNI

[bawang]

The SC "head lock" is "haymaker". You use your forearm to hit on the back of your opponent's head in clinching range, after you have knocked him 1/2 way out, you then lock his head and take him down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBktyN-aiNI

that is a good point, thank you for precious knowledge dr wang. *rubs testicles

[Hebrew Hammer]

Regarding groin kick/eye poke:
In my observation, most experienced street-type fighters are well aware of these tactics, especially the groin kick. Depending on the person, the groin kick can incapacitate them, but don't count on it. For one thing, most men expect someone to try the ball shot...exceptions might include total non-fighters, and possibly some sport TKD/karate guys (for example) with no street experience. As already mentioned, more than likely it will p!ss off the recipient to even attempt it, and adrenaline often allows him to fight through the pain long enough to beat you down. If you try it, you'd better follow up immediately with other things and not rely on it as a fight-ender.

Agreed! From personal experience, in my youth a friend of mine and I had been accosted by multiple individuals during which I sustained not one but two kicks to the brain housing and with adrenalin pumping I did not feel the pain until after the encounter and the adrenalin dump. It was quite unpleasant but not debilitating at the time. I'm sure it's very subjective.

[-N-]

The SC "head lock" is "haymaker". You use your forearm to hit on the back of your opponent's head in clinching range, after you have knocked him 1/2 way out, you then lock his head and take him down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBktyN-aiNI

A lot of people train Praying Mantis hook punch as a fist strike, but we make sure the students train as forearm smash for closer range followups.

[xcakid]

I've actually landed the eye poke on 2 of the few street type altercations in the past. One was at a bar, guy had me up against the bar one hand choke and ready to punch with the other. Eye poke withe the left hand, and almost pinched of the skin off the tricep on the arm that had me in a choke. He dropped to one knee clasping his eyes and cussing profusely and the bouncers escorted both of us out.

Second incident was an altercation at a restaurant. Guy goes in for a hay maker punch, I block, eye poke and groin strike. Drop the guy to his knees, and I fled.

Another incident, not me this time. Bar fight. Guy swings a cue stick misses as he swings again, the other guy steps in and grabs arms with the cue stick, pins him and knees him to the groin, then continues to pound him to unconsciousness.

Used properly, groin kick and/or eye pokes works. :D Also spitting on the face quickly followed by groin kick and eye poke.

[David Jamieson]

Occams razor applies here.

[Lucas]

Yeah, but if you are in the position to do that, you are in the wrong if you do it. That's my point, if you can outclass them so easily, why such harsh measures?

right. excepting in cases of justified retribution. not that i would ever do anything like that. im nice

[crazedjustice88]

The main techniques I use? My systems seeds. Chyun, Pow, and Cup (sp?). I am a firm believer in 1 technique to a 1000. My sifu hardly teaches forms. He teaches techniques. Only after a year of being with him do you learn the first form and even then, he still might not teach you the whole thing. He wants to make sure you can actually use it before you start learning a "dance".

I love the hop gar system because there aren't that many techniques. When I was exposed to other styles, my brain fell into confusion when it came to what move to use since there were just SO many...hahahaha

Thats just me though. So as to the initial question? 1 technique.