Guns!

[Syn7]

Well... it happened again.


Ohio student accidentally shot by teacher at gun safety class


A gun instructor in central Ohio accidentally shot a student in the arm during a gun safety class, according to authorities.

Michael Piemonte, 26, was shot on Saturday after the handgun held by instructor Terry Dunlap, 73, discharged during a class in Carroll, according to a Fairfield County Sheriff’s Office incident report.

Piemonte was hit in the right arm, between his elbow and his arm pit, he said during an interview on Tuesday. He was taken to a hospital by ambulance and released that evening.

Piemonte declined to elaborate on the incident and Dunlap was not immediately available to comment.

Piemonte was struck by a .38-calibre bullet fired from a .357-calibre five-shot revolver, according to the sheriff’s department report, which described the shooting as an accident.

Carroll is a village about 20 miles (32 kilometres) southeast of Columbus.

Ohio’s concealed carry law was amended in December to require residents to demonstrate competency with the weapon only once, rather than each time their concealed carry permit expires.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/ohio-student-accidentally-shot-by-teacher-at-gun-safety-class/article13741063/


Gotta love the irony here.

I'm all for guns, but people really need to step up their game here. This is beyond embarrassing. This is like the 10th story I've seen this year about people being shot at gun shows, gun rallies or gun safety classes.

Education and demonstrated competency = GOOD!

In Canada, I would like to have less restrictive open carry laws, but only with better education. A PAL doesn't really require that much. We can do better.

[David Jamieson]

I have a hard time getting worked up about gun violence or killing that occurs to the south of me these days. Too much of it. It's their collective culture and if that's how it is, then that's how it is.

[Judge Pen]

I have a hard time getting worked up about gun violence or killing that occurs to the south of me these days. Too much of it. It's their collective culture and if that's how it is, then that's how it is.

That's how it is, but there needs to be better education and training to go along with it; no doubt.

[JamesC]

Am I the only one that noticed this instructor is 73? That might have something to do with it lol.

[Lucas]

i think we need to go back to the old days and all carry side arms visibly. a lot more respect would go around and a lot more stupid people would end up gone.

:D

[Syn7]

You can open carry in most of the US.


Anyways... there is this:


Thirty-six years earlier, Dunlap, then a Pickerington police department auxiliary lieutenant, fired his .38-caliber handgun into the air to create a "scary effect" for his daughter at a "haunted hayride," according to the Dispatch. The bullet ricocheted and hit 14-year-old Cathy Hessler in the leg, the newspaper said.

Same guy. Some people have pretty low standards when it comes to gun safety.


All that being said... I agree with part of what Lucas said. I would like to see open carry in Canada. Guns aren't going anywhere and they will continue to be accessible. I'm all for quality and education.

[GoldenBrain]

Yep, there are some careless folks out there. Like this guy for instance... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw-jTCNZSmY


I'm all for open carry and for education. Due to the wild animals that roam our property such as mountain lion, boar, bear, coyote and stray dogs I almost always open carry a .40 caliber and sometimes like the other day I have a shotgun with me, especially when I'm outside our fence and walking in our creek which is un-fenced. A few days ago it may have saved my life. Here's a true story with a police report to prove it. I'm innocent of course for two reasons. One is that in this county there is a leash law which requires owners to secure their dogs on their own property, and two, I was absolutely defending myself. So what happened was 4 really large and scary pit bull dogs ran me down in our creek. I shot all of them but let me tell you that it happened so fast, unbelievably fast, that I consider myself very fortunate to still be here. Normally I can scare dogs off by firing a round into the ground and they run like hell, but these dogs just continued toward me at full speed. It was just about the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life because I'm a total animal lover. It's true that I hunt but that's for food and I use almost all of the animal. A dog however, well that's just different somehow. I'm just thankful we still have high power guns to cary but it may not be much longer if some folks have their way.

[Kymus]

You can open carry in most of the US.


Anyways... there is this:



Same guy. Some people have pretty low standards when it comes to gun safety.


All that being said... I agree with part of what Lucas said. I would like to see open carry in Canada. Guns aren't going anywhere and they will continue to be accessible. I'm all for quality and education.

I always pondered about something like this happening when a gun is fired in to the air. I mean, I guess it's a freak chance but... wow..

[Jimbo]

I always pondered about something like this happening when a gun is fired in to the air. I mean, I guess it's a freak chance but... wow..

There was at least one instance I heard of in the news where someone was killed by a stray shot that someone shot up into the air celebrating the New Year. Apparently, the bullet came back downwards quite a distance away. I've always felt that shooting a gun in celebration is stupid; however, I had thought that if a bullet is fired straight (or almost straight) up, it would lose its velocity going up and simply fall back to earth...still dangerous as a falling object, but not as deadly. I've since learned that theory is very wrong. It arcs back down with very lethal velocity.

[Kellen Bassette]

You can open carry in most of the US.


Well, the south and west anyway. Not so much in the north. I used to open carry in New Orleans, in NY I wouldn't attempt it...even if I could get a permit here...

Still, not too many ppl open carry in the south anyway..but a lot of ppl keep one in the truck.

[Kellen Bassette]

There was at least one instance I heard of in the news where someone was killed by a stray shot that someone shot up into the air celebrating the New Year. Apparently, the bullet came back downwards quite a distance away. I've always felt that shooting a gun in celebration is stupid; however, I had thought that if a bullet is fired straight (or almost straight) up, it would lose its velocity going up and simply fall back to earth...still dangerous as a falling object, but not as deadly. I've since learned that theory is very wrong. It arcs back down with very lethal velocity.

I've heard of it a couple times from celebrations with military parades in "third world" countries. It seems like a pretty stupid idea to do that with live ammo, but ppl do stupid things...

[Syn7]

I always pondered about something like this happening when a gun is fired in to the air. I mean, I guess it's a freak chance but... wow..

Well, firing it in the air and having it come down elsewhere is an issue all on it's own, but to fire in the air and actually hit something that could cause a ricochet that could harm somebody anywhere near you.... well that simply means the man is careless, retarded, or both. It really is an epic **** up that happened to end not so bad. In both cases, he was very VERY lucky. Location of the wound is pretty much what saved his ass in both cases.

With the firing in the air thing, the type of bullet and the trajectory matter. If you fire a handgun straight up in the air so that the bullet goes straight enough that it stops and falls back rather than making more of an arc, the bullet itself will not come down point first, it will tumble. So basically it would be like dropping a bullet by hand at whatever height you need to achieve terminal velocity. It may break the skin, but by no means would it be able to enter your skull.

Now shooting at like a 50 degree angle, that can be dangerous. it will still be spinning and point first when it strikes. And that could very well do real damage. But even then, not always. There are a handful of factors to consider.


I'm lucky to have had the influence I had when I was a kid. I wasn't allowed to really have toy guns. Not because anyone hated guns, but because they were taken seriously. I was shooting the 22 by like 5 or 6 and was around then a lot sooner. Stripped my first rifle when I was about 8. I remember my grandfather had a ton of rules. They have served me well. I wouldn't even point a gun at a person even if I had just cleared the tube and was literally looking down the barrel. It's just a no no.

Now that I'm older and have handled firearms around people who had different training, I find myself amazed at how careless they can be. Those early lessons have even been used in many areas of my life. It's about respect in general. I have done a ton of things many would find crazy, but they are always well thought out and carefully calculated risks.

[Syn7]

There was at least one instance I heard of in the news where someone was killed by a stray shot that someone shot up into the air celebrating the New Year. Apparently, the bullet came back downwards quite a distance away. I've always felt that shooting a gun in celebration is stupid; however, I had thought that if a bullet is fired straight (or almost straight) up, it would lose its velocity going up and simply fall back to earth...still dangerous as a falling object, but not as deadly. I've since learned that theory is very wrong. It arcs back down with very lethal velocity.


Ha, I didn't read this before I wrote the above. But yeah. There are considerations here.

But I agree, firing in the air for any reason shows a lack of respect and discipline. It's ametuer ****, straight up!

[Syn7]

Well, the south and west anyway. Not so much in the north. I used to open carry in New Orleans, in NY I wouldn't attempt it...even if I could get a permit here...

Still, not too many ppl open carry in the south anyway..but a lot of ppl keep one in the truck.

NY has some of the strictest gun laws in the US. To walk down broadway with an AR on your back would quite likely end in a serious display of tactical aggression. It's not like Oregon where the cops pull you over and ask if they can see a permit and inspect the weapon and then respect your decision if you say no.

[Syn7]

It was just about the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life because I'm a total animal lover. It's true that I hunt but that's for food and I use almost all of the animal. A dog however, well that's just different somehow. I'm just thankful we still have high power guns to cary but it may not be much longer if some folks have their way.

That sucks! It's pretty amazing you were able to get them all in time. How close did they get? I don't think I would lose much sleep over that. You do what you have to do. I like dogs, but when one is running me down aggressively, I'm not going to give it the benefit of doubt.

[Kellen Bassette]

NY has some of the strictest gun laws in the US. To walk down broadway with an AR on your back would quite likely end in a serious display of tactical aggression.

Yeah, except I'm from New York's North Country which probably has more in common with Minnesota than NYC, hence the never ending rift between upstate and downstate.....

[GoldenBrain]

That sucks! It's pretty amazing you were able to get them all in time. How close did they get? I don't think I would lose much sleep over that. You do what you have to do. I like dogs, but when one is running me down aggressively, I'm not going to give it the benefit of doubt.


As the deputy who stopped by to speak to me said, "you got to protect you and yours" so I'm not loosing to much sleep but as a dog person and general animal lover it pretty much sucked. I've seen a lot of dogs running on this property and scared them off a dozen times or more and they all ran away but these dogs didn't seem to even care about the gunfire and just kept running toward me. To be able to shoot 4 dogs implies 2 things about that situation. First is that I'm a good shot and really fast, second is that they didn't run away which is why I was able to get the entire pack. The reason I was in the creek in the first place was to determine if I could get a 10 ft tin horn out of there that washed up durning a flood. I want to use it as a rain water storage container by modifying it and tipping it on end vertically. Anywhoo, as I approached the tin horn, about 30ft away they bolted out of it toward me. Apparently they had been using it as their den. I carry my shotgun on a sling on my left shoulder in a way that allows me to pull it up from under my arm with my left hand and flip it to my right while loading it at the same time. It's a tactical method of drawing the shotgun that my father taught me and it's fast. FWIW, it's a model 870 12GA express magnum loaded with 00 buckshot so the dogs never really stood a chance once I started shooting. I shot once at the ground, then 6 more times before the last dog fell which was about 6ft away from me. Dude, I nearly shat myself it was so fast. I've had some deer fever and adrenaline during fights and other situations but nothing like that.

BTW, I grew up around guns in a similar situation as you described. I wasn't more than 5 or 6 when I shot my first 22 and was drilled over and over throughout the years with many safety rules. My pops was a top gun on the U.S. Army's pistol team in the late 60's and very well trained tactically so thankfully this training has been handed down to me.

The reason I am telling this story is not to brag or anything but rather to illustrate another real need for high power guns other than hunting, defense against people and target practice.

[Kellen Bassette]

The reason I am telling this story is not to brag or anything but rather to illustrate another real need for high power guns other than hunting, defense against people and target practice.

A lot of people in other places have no concept whatsoever of culture in rural America. Honestly, when someone in an arm chair in the UK starts solving all our problems over here and telling us what we do and don't need; it's as absurd and pretentious as us thinking we can waltz in and westernize Afghanistan.

[GoldenBrain]

A lot of people in other places have no concept whatsoever of culture in rural America. Honestly, when someone in an arm chair in the UK starts solving all our problems over here and telling us what we do and don't need; it's as absurd and pretentious as us thinking we can waltz in and westernize Afghanistan.


Indeed, but lets not forget all of the arm chair dictators in our own country. And, don't even get me started on Afghanistan...:rolleyes: Okay, I can't resist. Sometimes I feel like we went there just to guard the poppy fields. I mean, the dreaded Taliban, who I'm not even sure I'm qualified to judge, took heroin production down from 95 percent to 3 percent of world production and now that we are there it's back up to 97 percent of the worlds production. I'm guessing it's because those primitive drones can't see the fields. So, we guard poppy fields there and bust dirty **** hippy commune tomato plantations here. Alright...stepping down off my soap box...:D

[Jimbo]

A lot of people in other places have no concept whatsoever of culture in rural America. Honestly, when someone in an arm chair in the UK starts solving all our problems over here and telling us what we do and don't need; it's as absurd and pretentious as us thinking we can waltz in and westernize Afghanistan.

Makes me think of Piers Morgan.

[GoldenBrain]

I wasn't allowed to really have toy guns.

This statement got me thinking. When I was a kid I didn't have toy guns either and for the same reasons. I'm also old enough that Atari was my first game system and even when the game systems got better I never experienced anything like todays first person shooters as a kid. With this in mind does anybody think toy guns, violent tv and video games might actually be one of the main reason for the over the top violence we experience here in the U.S. these days? At one time I might have said no to that but now I'm thinking it has a lot to do with it.

[Kellen Bassette]

I really don't know what the real cause is for the guys that go shoot up a bunch of innocent people, maybe they're sort of our version of the suicide bombers....maybe we just aren't ready to admit we have those types of problems in our society....

[Syn7]

I don't think the gun rule was because they thought one of us may be a maniac. I'm pretty sure they just didn't want us messing around with guns. Desensitized in a way that let us forget the safety issues. You know how kids can be, they get all carried away and don't see all the implications. But I never had that need to go play with the guns because anytime I wanted, I was allowed to handle them. There were no locks and ammo was close by. It never once occurred to me that I should go mess with them w/o supervision because anything that a kid may feel is cool about shooting, I was allowed to do. Obviously I didn't always get my way, but I got enough to make them like any other tool. I think that absolutely forbidding a kid to look touch and know about guns when guns are around is a huge mistake. I understand that not everyone has the ability to facilitate such exposure properly, but people need to know that they are a part of the culture and people in the country, suburbs and the cities have them. You will never prevent all violence, but if you really want to put a dent in the problem you have to tackle highly dense but very poor areas from a socioeconomic perspective. Making something so accessible yet forbidden fruit is just asking for trouble. And since I am absolutely certain that in my lifetime you will be able to make a quality firearm on the desktop, I don't feel that going toward prohibition is the right way to handle gun violence, or any violence for that matter.

[Jimbo]

This statement got me thinking. When I was a kid I didn't have toy guns either and for the same reasons. I'm also old enough that Atari was my first game system and even when the game systems got better I never experienced anything like todays first person shooters as a kid. With this in mind does anybody think toy guns, violent tv and video games might actually be one of the main reason for the over the top violence we experience here in the U.S. these days? At one time I might have said no to that but now I'm thinking it has a lot to do with it.

I don't know about toy guns, but it's clear a lot has changed since I was a kid. Nowadays there is a general culture of cowardice. Kids can do a lot of things now without ever coming face to face with another person...Internet, etc., etc. And I do feel that violent video games can and do desensitize certain kids to violence, even moreso than cartoons, movies, etc. And many see the only way to get attention or deal with conflicts, disappointments, etc., is through gun violence. They never developed the mental or emotional tools to handle things with any maturity. They can also see it as their fast road to 15 minutes of fame, or infamy.

I've observed that lots of kids today are also less socialized than in past generations. While the Internet has increased communication and access to info, as well as connecting people, over-reliance on it (and online games) has also resulted in a lot of disconnect as well. So many kids and adults have their faces buried in their iPhones like addicted zombies.

When I was a kid, mass school shootings were still a rare occurrence. A local girl, Brenda Spencer, shot up an elementary school with a rifle in '79, and it was a big thing back then. She was even famously quoted, when they captured her, that she shot up the school because "I don't like Mondays". It stood out, at least locally, for years. While it would still be big news today, these days it would be lost in the news within a few days; forgotten by most but those who were directly affected by the tragedy, among all the other mass shootings. Meaning, back then it was rare. Now it would be another on the long list.

[GoldenBrain]

I don't think the gun rule was because they thought one of us may be a maniac.

I don't think anybody was thinking this is the reason you didn't have toy guns. There were no rules against me having guns but I just didn't want or need them and my parents never bought them because we had real guns and they wanted me to respect a gun for what it is. Having toy guns just never factored into the equation for me.

[GoldenBrain]

So many kids and adults have their faces buried in their iPhones like addicted zombies.

It's funny you mention this. I took my wife and son to Ikea in Dallas yesterday and on our way out of the big city :D we stopped at a Five Guys for our once and a while junk food treat. While there we noticed nearly everybody in the restaurant, which was packed for lunch, on their iPhones and other similar devices. At first we were wondering what was so important that people who were obviously there together were willing to interact with their device rather than each other. After a while it became clear that hardly anybody was typing anything. Almost everybody was just flicking from page to page or whatever looking at who knows what. Only a few loners were texting or actually speaking into their phones but most seemed to be using the phones to hide from each other. The really funny thing was to watch them sort of talking to each other while flicking at whatever on their phones, but not making any eye contact, and the conversations that we could hear seemed to be total nonsense.

[Kymus]

Yeah, except I'm from New York's North Country which probably has more in common with Minnesota than NYC, hence the never ending rift between upstate and downstate.....

My father's side of the family (and all of my father's ancestors) are from upstate NY. Totally different place from NYC.

[Syn7]

It's funny you mention this. I took my wife and son to Ikea in Dallas yesterday and on our way out of the big city :D we stopped at a Five Guys for our once and a while junk food treat. While there we noticed nearly everybody in the restaurant, which was packed for lunch, on their iPhones and other similar devices. At first we were wondering what was so important that people who were obviously there together were willing to interact with their device rather than each other. After a while it became clear that hardly anybody was typing anything. Almost everybody was just flicking from page to page or whatever looking at who knows what. Only a few loners were texting or actually speaking into their phones but most seemed to be using the phones to hide from each other. The really funny thing was to watch them sort of talking to each other while flicking at whatever on their phones, but not making any eye contact, and the conversations that we could hear seemed to be total nonsense.

My biggest pet peeve is when you are having a conversation w/ someone and they keep looking down at their phone. Sometimes I just wanna grab them and toss em out the car window! It really is an addiction. At first I was just annoyed like "fine, if you don't wanna talk we won't talk" but then I get the whole "why aren't you talking" thing and I just want to get away from these people. I love using the net, I love technology, but there is a time and place, IMO. I quite often think about the disconnect we are creating and how that could affect our future. I think one of the main reasons why I am so into learning to be truly self sufficient is because I fear we rely too much on tech and the negative aspects of that dependence. Then add in the fact that 99.999% of the people who use these techs actually have no idea why or even how it works. There is a fine line between you controlling it and it controlling you, so to speak. It can be a great outlet, but shouldn't be a primary outlet. Especially for some of the more fundamentally human activities that define who we are.

I went to pick up a friends son from a school event a while back. When he was saying bye to his people, they were all like "hurry home so we can do this" and I'm like "hurry home to do what?" and apparently they all want to get home as soon as possible so they can play games and socialize online. I guess this could keep you out of getting into any trouble that boys normally get up to, but COME ON. Go for a freakin hike already. So I'm thinking "ok ok they probably group up and socialize outside their group as a group. But I was wrong, they isolate themselves and play with eachother. They may go up against others, but they only really talked to eachother. Seems so weird to me. I understand the appeal, but not as a primary means of social behaviour and meaningful human connection. Not that it can't be that sometimes, it just shouldn't be the main method. Anyone with a lil perspective can see that that can have some very undesirable consequences.

[Syn7]

My father's side of the family (and all of my father's ancestors) are from upstate NY. Totally different place from NYC.


A lot of people in other places have no concept whatsoever of culture in rural America. Honestly, when someone in an arm chair in the UK starts solving all our problems over here and telling us what we do and don't need; it's as absurd and pretentious as us thinking we can waltz in and westernize Afghanistan.

It's tough to make state laws that make everyone happy when you have big cities and small towns. I'm not sure how I would tackle that problem given the structure you have to work with. Outside of drawing new lines in the sand, how do you do that? There are negatives to allowing local law to override state laws and vice versa. Same goes for the federal/state version of the same problem. Should more isolated and rural states really be held to laws that were designed for big city problems?

If we take guns as an example... how do we make them accessible to people in the country w/o adding to inner city problems? All these questions I have are why I honestly believe we just need to properly integrate them into every day life. Guns are here to stay. I can see a good end, but getting there is tough. It's like the difference between staying clean and infection free and dealing with a massively infected wound that has so far been neglected to the point of insanity. What do you do? No matter what you do that **** is gonna hurt.

[Kellen Bassette]

It's tough to make state laws that make everyone happy when you have big cities and small towns.

There's no easy answers for sure, just a lot of posturing and pushing political agendas from all sides.

As to what everyone has been saying about the technology disconnect, I got to agree, it's a pretty big problem. I'm not sure if it has any bearing on gun violence, but there are definitely going to be some social implications and it will probably get worse.

There is a total disconnect with nature among a good deal of the population. I think more people will avoid exercise and athletics, and it drives me crazy when I hang out with a group of friends and everyone is on the phone! I mean c'mon, we're all here to talk and socialize and you can't put down the phone for 10 minutes! I never drive anywhere without seeing someone texting, it can certainly be an addiction. I think the whole dating thing will/is changing drastically and there will probably be implications when the flirt/chase process isn't done in a real world setting and communication between the sexes becomes less natural....

All of us are obviously internet savvy and pretty up to date and we can see the potential problems, my generation was the first to be heavily involved with the net, the next generation will grow up without ever seeing how it was before.

Time will tell.