Is this good wing chun?

[guy b.]

This guy obviously realises something is wrong with wing chun the way he learned it and is trying to beef it up, incorporate modern training, and drop the bull$hit.

It seems like the sort of thing many here are advocating, i.e. he is exploring for himself, incorporating what he feels works, training with different people, sparring after a fashion, and so on.

Personally I think the result is horrible. Am I wrong? Is the result a good example of wing chun and would you want to train with this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/user/izzotacticalcombat/videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWuuqsMfti8

[Paddington]

"Seated bench press 450 pounds"; don't blink else you will miss this little gem. Says it all really.

[LFJ]

I've seen quite a few of his videos. I like his open-minded attitude and in fact agree with a lot of the theory he expresses. I just don't really think it shows in much of what he does. That shows how similar theories can still produce different results. But it's all in what you do, not what you theorize about.

[LFJ]

"Seated bench press 450 pounds"; don't blink else you will miss this little gem. Says it all really.

Are you a follower of Leung Ting who says weight lifting should not be done because it slows you down? :)

[Yoshiyahu]

I havent watch all his videos but the demo i liked...I cant judged how good his wing chun is...because i would need to touch hands with him...but he looks alot better than some of crap i see on youtube...i can tell his modifications still have elements of wing chun in them utilzing them for an anti-take down response...he is quite smart in that aspect. I actually never thought about it like that...

how ever he doesnt have complete dominance over his students like Emie Botezt does...but atleast he is making a video of actual free chi sau and sparring.

[guy b.]

I've seen quite a few of his videos. I like his open-minded attitude and in fact agree with a lot of the theory he expresses. I just don't really think it shows in much of what he does. That shows how similar theories can still produce different results. But it's all in what you do, not what you theorize about.

I think this is because he has read or heard things (for example he mentions wsl method in a clip) but has not actually gone through the learning process with the people he is talking about. He is instead taking things he has heard and trying to work them out for himself in chi sau and sparring. Naturally this leads to results that are lacking.

This is what I keep being told is the best way of learning though- working things out for yourself, personalising your wing chun, making it your own. Problem is it is very difficult to recreate something from a thing you read or a clip you watch. You need to have contact with a teacher to learn. You need to learn the system as a coherent whole rather than bolting bits on piecemeal

[GlennR]

This guy obviously realises something is wrong with wing chun the way he learned it and is trying to beef it up, incorporate modern training, and drop the bull$hit.

It seems like the sort of thing many here are advocating, i.e. he is exploring for himself, incorporating what he feels works, training with different people, sparring after a fashion, and so on.

Personally I think the result is horrible. Am I wrong? Is the result a good example of wing chun and would you want to train with this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/user/izzotacticalcombat/videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWuuqsMfti8

I think you hit the nail on the head though i admire his fitness and strength.

Look, good luck to him and his students but not my cup of tea

[Paddington]

Are you a follower of Leung Ting who says weight lifting should not be done because it slows you down? :)

No. It is more the case of the excessive posturing and flexing of ego by that guy that annoys.

[lance]

This guy obviously realises something is wrong with wing chun the way he learned it and is trying to beef it up, incorporate modern training, and drop the bull$hit.

It seems like the sort of thing many here are advocating, i.e. he is exploring for himself, incorporating what he feels works, training with different people, sparring after a fashion, and so on.

Personally I think the result is horrible. Am I wrong? Is the result a good example of wing chun and would you want to train with this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/user/izzotacticalcombat/videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWuuqsMfti8

Well , he ' s doing what WSL would do , make the techniques work for him by modifying the moves , from the way whoever he learned his WC from . It ' s still WC moves , but this guy is modifying the moves to make the WC moves work for him . To me WC either it works for you or not ? , but you have to figure out a way to make the WC techniques for for you . So people need to be open minded to figure out how the techniques would work out for them . But no matter how much you figure it out , and the techniques still don ' t work for you . then you know what it means WC , its either it ' s going to work for you or not ? It does ' nt mean that WC is BS . To me we have to feel balance with the techniques we ' re doing otherwise we won ' t bother to practice it . We ' ll just look for another solution that we feel comfortable with so we can maintain our training .

[Yoshiyahu]

i totally agree...well said...this guy obviously has certain type of opponents in mind when he practices his wing chun that is why he has it set up the way he does...

The proof is in the pudding...chi sau, drills and fancy forms mean nothing...at the end of the day if he can actually use wing chun shapes in actual fight an do a decent job he gets a thumbs up from me.



Well , he ' s doing what WSL would do , make the techniques work for him by modifying the moves , from the way whoever he learned his WC from . It ' s still WC moves , but this guy is modifying the moves to make the WC moves work for him . To me WC either it works for you or not ? , but you have to figure out a way to make the WC techniques for for you . So people need to be open minded to figure out how the techniques would work out for them . But no matter how much you figure it out , and the techniques still don ' t work for you . then you know what it means WC , its either it ' s going to work for you or not ? It does ' nt mean that WC is BS . To me we have to feel balance with the techniques we ' re doing otherwise we won ' t bother to practice it . We ' ll just look for another solution that we feel comfortable with so we can maintain our training .

[Wayfaring]

Personally I think the result is horrible. Am I wrong? Is the result a good example of wing chun and would you want to train with this guy?


There are some things that no amount of WCK or weak attempts at MMA can cure. The ego being one of them.

The ONLY thing that didn't make me nauseous in those clips was one segment where he was training a WCK structure against attempted wrestler shots. But even there the shots were cr@p so other than general movement familiarity there is not much value. Wait there was a 10 sec clip against decent wrestling pressure.

[guy b.]

There are some things that no amount of WCK or weak attempts at MMA can cure. The ego being one of them.

The ONLY thing that didn't make me nauseous in those clips was one segment where he was training a WCK structure against attempted wrestler shots. But even there the shots were cr@p so other than general movement familiarity there is not much value. Wait there was a 10 sec clip against decent wrestling pressure.

I believe he is an ex wrestler and amateur boxer. I can't help thinking he would have been better off sticking to those methods rather than learning wing chun badly and then trying to sort it out by himself

[Wayfaring]

I believe he is an ex wrestler and amateur boxer. I can't help thinking he would have been better off sticking to those methods rather than learning wing chun badly and then trying to sort it out by himself

The lower gate WCK structure handoff to his wrestler sprawl IMO was the only thing worth watching on those clips. If you do it with the sound off. :D I could care less about his bodybuilding opinions.

But he does look like he would make a good candidate for the cast of Jersey Shore.

[guy b.]

This guy is doing exactly what guys like you, frost, and tc101 advocate though, or at least it would sound that way if he was here on the forum. You would probably love him!

He is an ex law enforcement officer

He has amateur boxing experience

He has college wrestling experience

He learns through experimenting rather than by following a system

He isn't bound by principle and prefers to let experience be his guide

He spars regularly

He utilises protective gear

He is a fan of physical conditioning in addition to his MA training

[Wayfaring]

And if he didn't have an over-arching need to be the biggest little fish in a really little pond, he might be able to use some of those positive traits to get somewhere. His WCK fundamentals need some work though so he probably ought to go train with someone for a while.

[thedreamer7]

And if he didn't have an over-arching need to be the biggest little fish in a really little pond, he might be able to use some of those positive traits to get somewhere. His WCK fundamentals need some work though so he probably ought to go train with someone for a while.

He sure is vocal...

[guy b.]

And if he didn't have an over-arching need to be the biggest little fish in a really little pond, he might be able to use some of those positive traits to get somewhere. His WCK fundamentals need some work though so he probably ought to go train with someone for a while.

Interesting to see the difference between the way someone sounds and the way they actually do things, isn't it? Little forums are full of big fish too.

I wonder why tc101 isn't on this thread discussing tactical combat's dominic izzo. They sound like they would get on great

[BPWT]

I wonder why tc101 isn't on this thread discussing tactical combat's dominic izzo. They sound like they would get on great

Tactical Combat

tc101

Maybe he is Dominic Izzo.

[LFJ]

http://files.grasslandfun.webnode.com/200000032-13aa514a42/Dramatic-Prairie-Dog.gif

[guy b.]

Tactical Combat

tc101

Maybe he is Dominic Izzo.

Seems unlikely given Dominic Izzo's propensity for self promotion and tc101's desire for anonymity? Apart from that their obsessions are similar I agree.

[Wayfaring]

I wonder why tc101 isn't on this thread discussing tactical combat's dominic izzo. They sound like they would get on great

Actually the funny thing is that Izzo probably has adapted his WCK lower gate skills to prevent a takedown better than about 90% of this forum. We see live drill evidence. And if he can prevent a takedown, and has enough wrestling to take other people down, I would guesstimate that he probably could defeat the vast majority of this forum in unrestricted fighting / sparring as well. He would probably take down, mount and GNP a good deal of this forum. Despite the perceived deficiencies in his fundamental WCK. His weaknesses expose him to less danger than his strengths and matched opponent weaknesses do for other people who have not trained live against a decent wrestler.

So I guess from one perspective my answer to "Is this good wing chun?" is "how much does that matter?"

[guy b.]

I would guesstimate that he probably could defeat the vast majority of this forum in unrestricted fighting / sparring as well.

Dominick Izzo would not be taking anyone down to g n p them. He loves wing chun. Everything is focused on making his wing chun work. Unfortunately it is poor. This is a difficult position he has placed himself in. I agree that he would likely do much better focusing on his wrestling and amateur boxing, but he doesn't

[Wayfaring]

Dominick Izzo would not be taking anyone down to g n p them.

How do you know this? usually in sparring people revert to their most trained skills.

[guy b.]

How do you know this? usually in sparring people revert to their most trained skills.

He's done wing chun for years it looks like. He teaches it as police and women's self defence. He used it in police duty.

On the other hand he did a bit of wrestling and boxing in college.