to slap or not to slap

[TenTigers]

I'm sure I've asked this before, but..
I would like to hear from someone who has more than just a little experience in BOTH Judo AND Shuai Jiao. Having done both methods, which do you prefer?

From personal experience, slapping out has saved my life on one occaision;
I was doing high skipping axe kicks and my supporting leg came out from under me. I landed completely upside down across my upper back neck shoulders. If I hadn't slapped out, I would've snapped my neck for sure.

and definitely saved my arse on several others. One time (at band camp..) I was working in a bakery, and had a film of grease from buttercream on the bottoms of my shoes (you can't avoid it) going outside to take out the garbage, it was raining, and as I stepped on the metal doors, (those ones on the sidewalks in the city that open up to go downstairs) it was like stepping on a sheet of slick ice. I landed in a perfect side breakfall. Got wet, but not broken, and I landed fast and hard.

on the flip side, (pun intended)
I was deer hunting upstate NY and on the steep side of a wooded area, tripped over a root and fell forward. I was holding my rifle across my chest and had no way to put my hands out, so I twisted and landed in a shuai jiao side fall, completely unharmed.
So, again, only those with experience in BOTH methods, rather than one-sided biased opinions, please.

[YouKnowWho]

If I hadn't slapped out, I would've snapped my neck for sure.

I don't think slap can help your neck. You need to use one arm as a soft pillow behind your head and try to land on your triangle muscle behind your shoulder (the strongest muscle on your body). The best way is to have a structure in your arm (Peng Jin) so your head will not touch the ground. Even if your structure is not good and your head touch the ground, since your arm is between your head and the ground, your head will be safe.

The "slap" will work in a controlled environment (you know exactly how your body will land) with soft mat. If your body is spinning in the air and you don't know which part of your body may land on the hard ground first, it's better to protect your head than to protect your body. In this case, you will need to use both arms to protect your head because you won't know which side that your body may land.

Try to fall down backward and see if one of your arms can create a good structure and hold your head above the ground for about 4 - 6 inch.

[Golden Arms]

I haven't really taken the time to think about it much until reading this, but over the years I have sort of developed a preference to taking falls.

If possible, roll
If you can't roll, slap
If you can't slap, cover and use the breath

I am happy to use both methods. If I had to pick the one I have used more, it would be the slap as it leads to learning how to transfer the force taken from one side of the body to the other across the shoulder blade area if need be.

[jimbob]

Slightly off topic - I don't see too many high level judo competitors breakfalling/slapping after being thrown. Is this because it makes it obvious they've been thrown or they give up position? Never really understood why there is so much emphasis on breakfalls if they're to be avoided in competition.

[Golden Arms]

I can't speak for them but over time I can say that as your falling skill increases the need for using things like a slap goes down. You may be right about the competition angle to it as well.

[Raipizo]

Rolling is a bit tricky to do on the spot when you trip or stumble, I was in karate a few years back and we did all the break falls. I found just slapping to be easier to me and I actually caught myself in a front break fall when I fell off a bike while riding on those peg things, my shoes were wet. Anyway I slipped, fell into the street my forearms were a little scraped from sliding a little but it didn't really hurt. Break falls help to know but I haven't used them much in everyday life.

[Lucas]

I'm going to break tentigers thread rule, as i do not have experience in shuai jiao. however i spent many years falling on concrete as a regular occurance from skating (skateboard) this was all before I ever learned to slap breakfall.

slow to high speed variance but generally with some good force. when you go down from skating you're often times are falling from an increased hight. i've taken heavy spills from 8-10 stairs and never broke a bone.

even after i learned to slap out i still find myself falling back on colapsing and rolling rather than absorbing through a slap.

generally you're going down onto one side, so you develop a habbit of cradling your head out of necessity and learning to let your body fall like a chain onto the ground.

to me this type of falling is much more instinctual than slapping. its pretty much how all skaters end up learing to fall through cause and effect observation and personal experience.

however if i'm falling straight backward onto my back i feel that a slap is superior. ive gone down like this multiple times before i learned to slap and always it was a heavy fall, really knocking the wind out of you. likewise if i'm going to fall forward and do not have the room to tuck a shoulder and roll out of it, i feel best slapping the force out.

[wiz cool c]

i find the ball up thing in shuai jiao protects you from falling knees or elbows that happens sometimes in the closer distance that the short sleeve jacket put you in. but for a hard throw i prefer to slap ,even if you slap a hard surface it shouldn't cause much damage to your arm,cause you aren't hitting shoulder ,elbow hand, they all land at the same time.

[omarthefish]

Slightly off topic - I don't see too many high level judo competitors breakfalling/slapping after being thrown. Is this because it makes it obvious they've been thrown or they give up position? Never really understood why there is so much emphasis on breakfalls if they're to be avoided in competition.
They do in training.

The don't in competition because it's not just "obvious", it's an ippon. Get thrown and do a classic breakfall and you have just loss the match. Game, set, match. So in competitions people do all sorts of crazy (dangerous) gymnastics to try and reverse the throw or at least get turned around so they land face down, one foot standing, anthing but on their back with arms slapping the mat.

That's one primary reason why injuries are so much more common in comps vs. regular training.

[jimbob]

They do in training.

The don't in competition because it's not just "obvious", it's an ippon. Get thrown and do a classic breakfall and you have just loss the match. Game, set, match. So in competitions people do all sorts of crazy (dangerous) gymnastics to try and reverse the throw or at least get turned around so they land face down, one foot standing, anthing but on their back with arms slapping the mat.

That's one primary reason why injuries are so much more common in comps vs. regular training.

Thanks Omar!

[sanjuro_ronin]

To echo what Omar said, in competition you are more focused on doing something after/during being thrown and NOT on breaking the fall.
Break falling is crucial in training but in competition/real life you want to be more "aggressive" and try to counter or what not as opposed to "being safe".

[David Jamieson]

can roll? no slap.
gonna hit? slap!

[bawang]

slapping is for takedowns. u have to know both.