Need conditioning advice.

[Kframe]

Hey guys, I know I have been away for along time, and I do apologize for that.

I would like to start some conditioning for my hands and forearms and shins/instep.

Since I don't have any kung fu near me, I need to do it my self. I was hoping for a simple yet effective routine I can do with my hands to condition them. Iron hand I think its called. To better protect them when I punch things, be it mma or self defense. I would like to work on my forearm bones and shins insteps as well.

I have read that I should start off with bags filled with mung beans. How full should the bag be, how densely packed, and what kind of bag?

What routine should I follow? I have seen the four way. Palm, backfist, fingertips, knife hand. I use 3 of those in training, would that help my punching knuckles?

I read that Dit da jow is important to this. I have found many sites on line , yet I have no idea which is legit and which is not.

I have found these 2 so far. http://www.plumdragonherbs.com

and http://www.ditdajow.com/

I have no idea if they are legit, altho the ditdajow.com looks suspicious to me.

I don't know what jow I should be using, I need advice on that. I notice that plumbdragon has lvl 1 2 and 3 jow for iron hand conditioning. I like that kind of system. On other sites, I have no idea if what they have is good for beginners or intermediates or advanced students. I need beginner stuff.

Are the bruising and healing jows legit? I occasionally get deep and large area bruising when hard sparring(not frequently) and would love something for bruises. Most of the time I have muscle and joint soreness and would love some thing that helps with that. Plumdragon has some JKD jow and some various training jow herb packs, but I don't know if they will help with muscle soreness and joint pain, I just don't know how to read dit da jow.

What about the more serious injuries, I see they have a ho family jow that is for longer term chronic and more serious injuries. Advice on when and what types of things that is appropriate for?

Any other supplier and jows I should be looking at? I really need advice on what to buy, as I don't want to waste time and money getting the wrong stuff. I Would love to understand more about jow and be more informed so I can purchase with more confidence.

I am sorry if these are stupid questions, but If I want to do something I have to do it. So im going to do it. Figured id come here and learn from the ones who would know best on this stuff.

[iunojupiter]

if you have no one to supervise you doing Iron body work the traditional way, you should just go the boxer/kickboxer route. Get a really dense heavy bag and pound away.
Hit it with regular punches, back hands, forearm shots. Kick with your shins.

You'd be surprised how much a decent heavy bag hits back.

[Kframe]

That is currently what Im doing. Thing is, that can only take you so far.

Now when it comes to self training im not a fool, ill not take my self to point of injury. I know my body and its limits. I just need a routine and jows to use.

Also the questions regarding the general training and healing jows are important as they will be used the most. Muscle and joint pain and bruising and chronic injurys are what I deal with the most.

[YouKnowWho]

Here is the formula for "iron palm" training.

http://imageshack.us/a/img607/3957/og8h.jpg

Among those 5 iron palm striking methods, I'll suggest the:

- palm edge strike,
- palm heel strike,
- whole palm strike,

and skip the

- back palm strike,
- finger tips strike,

since you don't have instructor.

[Kframe]

I need to learn Chinese lol.

Youknowho, may I ask why skip the back fist? From my understanding that the typical boxers fracture occurs in those bones, wouldn't backfist conditioning help that?

Thank you for your advice BTW.

[YouKnowWho]

Youknowho, may I ask why skip the back fist? From my understanding that the typical boxers fracture occurs in those bones, wouldn't backfist conditioning help that?
Not back fist but back palm. When you get old and have arthritis on your finger joints, you no longer be able to punch hard with your fist, your palm strikes will be your only dependable weapon that you have left.

There are not much muscle on the back of your palm. In iron palm training, you may have chance to break your blood vessels. The finger tips striking may affect your eyes. Both training may involve too much risk without proper supervision.

[Kframe]

I have never heard of the back palm? Can you link a picture for me. My coach agrees with palm strikes. In fact he prefers it for head strikes. My problem is im coming from a boxing background and have a hard time not defaulting to fist strikes..

Im assuming that its ok to include back fist in my conditioning. The ones you suggest are all strikes im learning now, so I need to condition them. Your suggestion cements what I have already been thinking. Thank you again sir.


Any advice on Jows or of the 2 links I posted?

[Kframe]

You also mentioned that finger tip striking may effect my eyes, may I ask how? My fingers are a long way from my eyes.

Man I need to find a IRL teacher for this stuff.

[YouKnowWho]

Back palm training can be seen at 1.48 of the following clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWvo5vKJLIA

As far as the finger tips strike may hurt eyes, I have no prove but was told. I just don't want to take any chance on that. May be someone else can answer this question.

手指端的末梢神經確實與視神經有關 Fingertip peripheral polyneuropathy associated with optic nerve.

You will need a teacher to help you on this. Without a teacher, your may have problem into your old age.

[Kframe]

Ok stupid question time, how is the back palm different then a back fist? From that portion of the video it appears to be striking the pad on the same part of the hand as a back fist would? Of course it is also striking with fingers and such, but the same bones as the back fist.

Must have something to do with a fist over vs using a open hand.

[YouKnowWho]

When you use

- palm, your hand is relaxed.
- fist, your hand is tensed.

[Kellen Bassette]

That is currently what Im doing. Thing is, that can only take you so far.


As for the heavy bags, if you haven't already done this, you can try moving up from a 100 pound bag, to a more solid 200 pound bag. If your already rocking the 200 pounder, get yourself a good sandbag. They offer a lot more resistance then conventional modern bags, condition your shins on the bottom of the bag, where the sand will be most compact.

I'm sure you can figure out how hard you can hit it and work up from there, to prevent injuries.

[mickey]

Greetings,

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58558


If you have a foundation in what was suggested in the link, I suggest you check out the dvds on Iron Palm and Iron Body by Chris Lomas.


mickey

[-N-]

If your already rocking the 200 pounder, get yourself a good sandbag. They offer a lot more resistance then conventional modern bags, condition your shins on the bottom of the bag, where the sand will be most compact.

The Everlast 80 lb bags are good for this. The sand sinks to the bottom, which people complain about, but it's good for conditioning.

Got mine for $40 from Big 5 with a coupon.

[Kframe]

Thanks guys for all the help. Ill look into the dvds, thank you. Im still trying to find someone with in a reasonable driving distance that can instruct me.

[Jimbo]

You also mentioned that finger tip striking may effect my eyes, may I ask how? My fingers are a long way from my eyes.

Man I need to find a IRL teacher for this stuff.

When I lived in Taiwan, a young classmate of mine started self-training iron palm, but obviously incorrectly. He did all five palm strikes (flat palm, palm edge, palm heel, back of hand, and fingertips), striking hard with each hand on a heavy wooden stool (not even an iron palm bag!) hundreds of times a day. Even the teacher told him to stop it, but he kept on. He used lots of jow, but soon was complaining that his eyesight was becoming messed up, and he started having trouble holding chopsticks, as his hands were shaking. He complained that the jow didn't work, but even the best jow isn't miracle stuff if you're training stupidly.

A lot of health problems can result from improper iron palm training. The fingertips/eyes connection is known among acupuncturists. Best to train under qualified supervision if possible, and begin lightly and work up very gradually.