How many of you have .......

[Minghequan]

Another one I'm going to throw out there for discussion (Hopefully!):

How many of you have actually met or trained with the current head of your association, school and or style?

Is it important to do so???

If not, do you train under one of their representatives?

Are you a member of an Association/style whose chief instructor is someone you have never met?

[Kellen Bassette]

In Go Ju Ryu I met and trained with the head of our association.

Under most Kung Fu instructors we had no formal association or internal hierarchy.
Under one Kung Fu instructor who was under a formal association, I met and trained with the head of the association.

In Muay Thai there was no concern for associations and lineages, (although in the States there is so much questionable/fake MT I am sure there will be as much bureaucracy as in Kung Fu/Karate.) Now many say a belt means nothing, but bestow MT rank with "level" awards and call themselves "Arjan." :rolleyes:

There is no need to train with a head of an association/organization.

[David Jamieson]

I trained directly with my Sifu(s) and would practice with my SiHing(s).
We didn't have an "association". We were a club more than anything.

[MasterKiller]

I trained directly with my Sifu(s) and would practice with my SiHing(s).
We didn't have an "association". We were a club more than anything.
This. Never even met my teacher's teachers.

[ngokfei]

Most styles don't have a "Head" of anything. All you can hope for is possible to meet your Sigung and your Sifu's classmates, but even that was very rare in the past, especially here in the USA.

today with the mass dispersion of styles, organizations have been created to handle this. Just look at the Shaolin Temple they've all ready jumped 4-6 generations of disciples that its almost impossible to tract them all.


Instead of just training to acquire skills there is a trend to jump around meeting and training with ones Uncles or Grand Teachers, some even like to do what has been tagged "lineage Jumping". So they can position themselves higher in the lineage. Just plain ego pumping with alot going towards $$$ gaining.

[ShaolinDan]

Another one I'm going to throw out there for discussion (Hopefully!):

How many of you have actually met or trained with the current head of your association, school and or style?

Is it important to do so???

If not, do you train under one of their representatives?

Are you a member of an Association/style whose chief instructor is someone you have never met?


In light of recent discussions :rolleyes: the motivation here is kind of obvious, but I'll bite. :)

My Shifu is the current head of our association, so yeah, I've trained with him. :)
He also travels to the few other schools in our small association at least once or twice a year, so pretty much everyone has met and trained with him to at least a small degree.

Is it important? To me it is...but he's my teacher. :) I've studied with a number of teachers now, both within my family and outside of it, and I like my teacher's instruction the best--but that's a matter of personal preference. It is good to experience different teachers and it can provide a lot of insight to meet your teacher's teacher, but it isn't of critical importance.

A generation back: My teacher's original kung fu teacher (he has since studied with several other teachers), actually was/is the head/founder of a big international association. It's not so big anymore, but still has a few branches. My teacher split off from this association to do his own thing, but they have remained on excellent terms. My teacher's teacher still comes to my school once or twice a year to do seminars. My teacher has also passed a few of his students on to his original teacher for further training. And I've been out to eat (and have a beer) with my teacher's teacher on a couple of occasions.

How important is this? Not terribly important...but definitely a valuable experience. Every teacher/seminar has its own emphasis; it's a chance to learn something you wouldn't learn otherwise. Mostly though, it's just nice to meet the older members of the family and get more of a sense of where you come from.

For the OP :p : Meeting/training with the head of your association might not be critical, but training with SOMEONE from the association is. Otherwise it's just a name with nothing behind it.

For what it's worth: My teacher's first teacher has actually been accused of being a fraud before. Totally political. Anyone who trains with him or his students can see plainly that it's for real. When it's real, it's obvious. Skill proves lineage, lineage doesn't prove skill. ;)

[crazedjustice88]

My Sifu is David Chin, so I'm learning from the appointed head of the Harry Ng hop gar system and the Kuo Yuen Ling original yang style tai chi as well. I'm a very blessed man.

Is it important? In my mind it helps. But then again that might just be in my situation. The Grandmaster of these styles himself only lives 30 minutes away from me. So again, I'm very blessed.

[Golden Arms]

If you train with your Sifu, then that is who you train with. I don't get why it would even be a question. If you have a real teacher, then that is who you train with.

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1321&page=2http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1321&page=2

[David Jamieson]

This. Never even met my teacher's teachers.

I know my sigung but have not trained with him. Because he's 1500 miles away for one thing.

[GeneChing]

I've met with the Abbot many times. He is gracious enough to provide an exclusive interview with me for our annual Shaolin specials (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=397). But I've never trained with him. Shaolin Temple is massive and the Abbot don't roll that way. ;)

[David Jamieson]

... the Abbot don't roll that way. ;)

:p I laughed out loud at the idea of the abbot rolling...

It's so nice to not have to be chastised for that. hee hee...

[ngokfei]

oh he rolls allright. Nice and plump guy they got there. I saw some early photos of him training and well he was not your average wuseng by any means. Too many trips to the rice bowl.:D

[GeneChing]

I'm going to shut up about this now. ;)

[Fa Xing]

I trained with Jerry Poteet, but Bruce Lee has been long dead before I started training.

[Drake]

Been trying to make it to SF to meet up with him. Maybe someday.

[GETHIN]

How many of you have actually met or trained with the current head of your association, school and or style?

I did.


Is it important to do so???


Not essential, but it was important to me for a few reasons. I wanted to try to understand the origins of my chosen style as best I could, I figured that in doing so my training would be as close to it's original foundations and as 'traditional' as possible. By doing so, I hope it gives me a small insight as to see how styles may evolve, or, as in your case decline.

One great advantage is that it allows me to recognise charlatons and imposters who inflict themselves upon that particular style :rolleyes:.



If not, do you train under one of their representatives?

Well I joined your research group - only for a very short while - but I learned a lot about the art of deception :o.


I see that posts are dissapearing from this thread already, so I guess this will just be another. But whilst you (Ron) may generate revenue for this forum by acting as some sort of 'kung fu clown' and providing great reading amusement for many, in the light of what has recently happened you belong in the thread for disgraced practioners.
Nothing you say or post here or elsewhere can get you out of the very deep hole you have dug for yourself :).

[bawang]

the head of my association, school and style is jesus Christ.


yes, I have met him.

[crazedjustice88]

the head of my association, school and style is jesus Christ.


yes, I have met him.

He has saved me my brother hahaha

but for reals though...he has.

[Minghequan]

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/4060/bmgo.jpg

;)

Thanks for the discussions and viewpoints.

[David Jamieson]

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/4060/bmgo.jpg

;)

Thanks for the discussions and viewpoints.

Thanks for the platitudes! :p

[Minghequan]

Thanks for the fairness:p

[Blacktiger]

If you train with your Sifu, then that is who you train with. I don't get why it would even be a question. If you have a real teacher, then that is who you train with.

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1321&page=2http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1321&page=2

I have a question - given the bottom of the barrel actions from this guy.

Why does the forum allow this chap to continue to post here given the damage he has caused to members, their masters and art.

I don't get it....

I suppose you will delete this as well.

[Drake]

I have a question - given the bottom of the barrel actions from this guy.

Why does the forum allow this chap to continue to post here given the damage he has caused to members, their masters and art.

I don't get it....

I suppose you will delete this as well.

Gene lets all sorts of douchecanoes post here. I think it's some weird social experiment he's running...

[David Jamieson]

Who's to say we aren't all a pack of douchecanoes?
You? Me? Whoever?

There's a lot of artificial respect, chest puffing etc.
A public forum is just a place fo dynamic discussion. It's not some sacred ground of truth and nothing but the truth. I defy you to find that anywhere outside of yoru own heart anyway.

there are sacred places, this is not one of them and even those are trampled in all their forms and desecrated by mere humans.

Educate yourself and remember this little gem from Aristotle:

"Wise men speak because they have something to say while fools speak because they need to say something".

:)

Not to mention, I doubt we'd be troubled with sorting through all the a**holes du jour in the Martial arts and weeding them out. That would be a monumental task. lol

It's your choice to engage or not in the end.

[GeneChing]

There is exclusivity in so many aspects of the martial arts. There's exclusivity in styles and systems. There's even exclusivity in who gets into a cage fight. But then we all talk about how effective we are on the streets and we can't even hold a civil conversation on a web forum? I let anyone in and anyone have their say until there is legal action or such an uproar from the top posting members here that it has to be shut down.


I suppose you will delete this as well.
I haven't deleted anything from this thread. If one of the other mods did, well, then I support that. All of our mods here have undertaken a thankless and overwhelming task of moderating you all.


Gene lets all sorts of douchecanoes post here. I think it's some weird social experiment he's running... Ha. If only. Perhaps it's an experiment in martial viral marketing. If so, the results are marginal.

[Lucas]

I thought martial artists were supposed to be mentally as well as physically tough.

I don't understand why anyone complains about other people on an internet forum.

It flabbergasts me.

Anyone who feels the need to complain about other posters needs to grow a pair. This is not aimed at anyone specifically, just a general 'dont be a little girly crybaby' response to all the girly cry babies.

If you take offense to that statement, you may want to evaluate whether or not you are a girly cry baby. The first step in getting help is admitting you are a girly cry baby.

I'll be the first here to admit that I have been a girly cry baby once in the past. But then I made the conscious decision to no longer be a girly cry baby.

If I can do it, you guys can do it too!

[David Jamieson]

I thought martial artists were supposed to be mentally as well as physically tough.

I don't understand why anyone complains about other people on an internet forum.

It flabbergasts me.

Anyone who feels the need to complain about other posters needs to grow a pair. This is not aimed at anyone specifically, just a general 'dont be a little girly crybaby' response to all the girly cry babies.

If you take offense to that statement, you may want to evaluate whether or not you are a girly cry baby. The first step in getting help is admitting you are a girly cry baby.

I'll be the first here to admit that I have been a girly cry baby once in the past. But then I made the conscious decision to no longer be a girly cry baby.

If I can do it, you guys can do it too!

I always get a chuckle when someone posts an "I'm leaving and here's why" thing.

Just goofy really.

Except for quitting a job, it doesn't behoove anyone to say they aren't going to stay somewhere or on an internet forum anymore.

But that's full circle back to the douchecanoes. lol, I love that term! So fitting!

[GeneChing]

There is a code of martial etiquette, a code that is seldom observed here. That was put in place by our ancestors for a reason. It wasn't to protect girly cry babies. Those should have been weeded out long ago. It was to keep us from killing each other when we came face-to-face. Now, we seldom come face-to-face and any girly cry baby can log on, so the game has changed.

The earnest martial artist still upholds etiquette. Even in days of old, genuine practitioners withstood assaults on their honor and held to their code until it was time to draw their swords. Here on that forum, I like to think this still stands. The tricky thing is the realization that an opponent probably isn't at sword's length, so to draw it here is tantamount to standing on a hill miles away and brandishing. That's just bad strategy. Pick your fights, but choose them well. We are all watching.

[GETHIN]

Sounds good to me, are you up for it Ron ?

[YouKnowWho]

"I'm leaving and here's why" ...
When I left the Judo forum, I left quietly without anybody's notice. When someone made the following statement:

"You are not even a Judoka. Nobody cares about your opinion. Why are you still hanging around here?"

I just don't have enough thick skin to hang around in that forum after that. I would never forget that unfriendly comment for the rest of my life. Of course I could spend 50 pages posts to argue with that guy (such as I don't have to be a Judo guy to express my opinion in a Judo forum). But I don't have to be the person to always have the last words.

[GeneChing]

When I left the Judo forum, I left quietly without anybody's notice. When someone made the following statement:

"You are not even a Judoka. Nobody cares about your opinion. Why are you still hanging around here?"

I just don't have enough thick skin to hang around in that forum after that. I would never forget that unfriendly comment for the rest of my life. Ah, let that go, YouKnowWho. Obviously he cared enough to make the comment. Once it gets to that level, the riposte must degenerate to silliness, something akin to "I know you are, but what am I?"

I need to form my own association, one that I can be head of, one where nacho ninjettes would have to travel the world to train under me.

[Syn7]

I need to form my own association, one that I can be head of, one where nacho ninjettes would have to travel the world to train under me.

Who's stoppin ya? Power to the nacho peoples! Make that happen. I'll be the first to follow your G+ page.

[GeneChing]

My time is consumed with maintaining our publications. Plus I have a regular life and a martial practice to keep up. But maybe someday. And no offense, Syn7, but you aren't quite the nacho ninjette I would be looking for... :o

;)

[Blacktiger]

I take inspiration from Lucas and his post here, my new mission is to be a man's man of the KF forums ;)

Lead by example and demonstrate manly Kung Fu.

And nice clarification from Gene on forum etiquette.

Its like in Bloodsport - two ways to go out, blow the farker off the run way or knock-out.

Forum equivalent - legal action or plain silliness.

:D

[Minghequan]

Gene Ching wrote:

Well, the first step is just to be good practitioners
There is a code of martial etiquette, a code that is seldom observed here. That was put in place by our ancestors for a reason. It wasn't to protect girly cry babies. Those should have been weeded out long ago. It was to keep us from killing each other when we came face-to-face. Now, we seldom come face-to-face and any girly cry baby can log on, so the game has changed.

The earnest martial artist still upholds etiquette. Even in days of old, genuine practitioners withstood assaults on their honor and held to their code until it was time to draw their swords. Here on that forum, I like to think this still stands. The tricky thing is the realization that an opponent probably isn't at sword's length, so to draw it here is tantamount to standing on a hill miles away and brandishing. That's just bad strategy. Pick your fights, but choose them well. We are all watching.

Fully agree!




Gethin wrote:

Sounds good to me, are you up for it Ron ?

Fully agree! Actually David I respect you as your one of the few that will actually put up and identify yourself thus making where your coming from in your views that more real other than the usual "Web Warrior, chase them down, comment on anything they write and try to hound them to death whilst not actually contributing to the actual discussion" modus operandi of so many others.

We have not seen eye to eye in the past. My bad. I stuffed up on more than a few occassions which I readily admit. But tomorrow is a new day with new challenges and new experiences and I'm all for moving on to tommorrow!

[Minghequan]

Blacktiger, Hualong,

I have taken the discussion direct to each of you via PM.

I believe this is in keeping with the proper etiquette one would see in most Chinese and or other martial Arts schools:


Gene Ching wrote-

Well, the first step is just to be good practitioners
There is a code of martial etiquette, a code that is seldom observed here. That was put in place by our ancestors for a reason. It wasn't to protect girly cry babies. Those should have been weeded out long ago. It was to keep us from killing each other when we came face-to-face. Now, we seldom come face-to-face and any girly cry baby can log on, so the game has changed.

The earnest martial artist still upholds etiquette. Even in days of old, genuine practitioners withstood assaults on their honor and held to their code until it was time to draw their swords. Here on that forum, I like to think this still stands. The tricky thing is the realization that an opponent probably isn't at sword's length, so to draw it here is tantamount to standing on a hill miles away and brandishing. That's just bad strategy. Pick your fights, but choose them well. We are all watching.

Please check you Pm's and offer a reply if you wish via same or direct email to me at:

shifu@whitecranegongfu.info


Thank you all for your time, patience and consideration.

[Blacktiger]

Hi Ron,

Appreciate what you are trying to do here, if it is genuine. So will take it on face value.

You have asked me to refer to the PM's that you sent - from 1 to 7 in explanation.

And your asking me to reply via PM or direct email.

The key here - given the errors of judgement you have made is transparency.

If you have explanations for your actions in the past or apologies etc - it needs to be put out in the open for all to see - then no one can question that you have not gone the whole nine yards.

There is then nothing to hide ;)

[Minghequan]

Blacktiger,

Thank you for your response.

I especially like the spirit in which it is intended. Thank you ....

As you know I have given you an explanation via PM of the events and or issues you and others have raised elsewhere.

I will (in another thread) make this same explanation public as per your very good suggestion.

I know there will be some who will see this as a means to launch further attacks and I get this. others will join in on the bandwagon as per the usual internat Pack-Dog mentality.

I will not however, engage such people as they will believe what they wish to no matter what I do or say. This is human nature.

I think Gene's excellent post (see below) is the right way to go:


Gene Ching wrote-

Well, the first step is just to be good practitioners
There is a code of martial etiquette, a code that is seldom observed here. That was put in place by our ancestors for a reason. It wasn't to protect girly cry babies. Those should have been weeded out long ago. It was to keep us from killing each other when we came face-to-face. Now, we seldom come face-to-face and any girly cry baby can log on, so the game has changed.

The earnest martial artist still upholds etiquette. Even in days of old, genuine practitioners withstood assaults on their honor and held to their code until it was time to draw their swords. Here on that forum, I like to think this still stands. The tricky thing is the realization that an opponent probably isn't at sword's length, so to draw it here is tantamount to standing on a hill miles away and brandishing. That's just bad strategy. Pick your fights, but choose them well. We are all watching.


Thank you again for taking the time to respond.

[Blacktiger]

Ron if your public explanation and apology honestly addresses the issues/events in question raised here, and on many other forums over the years.


It will be your best move in years, tough but the right thing to do... and on the path to earning peoples trust and respect back.

If people are going to bag you for that then, I think you will find more people in your corner.

;)

[Minghequan]

Okay and thanks.

I'kll soon go ahead and post that which I sent to you privately and take it from there (most likely I'll take it on the chin a few times! ;) )

[Syn7]

My time is consumed with maintaining our publications. Plus I have a regular life and a martial practice to keep up. But maybe someday. And no offense, Syn7, but you aren't quite the nacho ninjette I would be looking for... :o

;)

Whoa whoa whoa! I said I would follow it on G+, not join up.

While I'm sure I'm sexy as hell when draped in cheese, I'd have a hard time with the ninjette part. But if you did have a bunch of nacho ninjettes, you know I would check the pics!;)

[Drake]

What the **** is going on here?

[Wayfaring]

...
Now, we seldom come face-to-face and any girly cry baby can log on, so the game has changed.
...


That would be an awesome first line in a gong-sau challenge. brb ...

;):D:D:D

[ngokfei]

:D lots of drugs :D