"We've reached the end of antibiotics"

[GoldenBrain]

This is a question to all the traditional medicine folks out there. What type of concoction would you advise to treat blood and skin infections of superbugs like MERSA?

Of course western doctors and others are also welcome to comment.

Below is the headline, which pretty much sums it up, and link to the article.

"We've reached the end of antibiotics": Top CDC expert declares that 'miracle drugs' that have saved millions are no match against 'superbugs' because people have overmedicated themselves.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2477273/Weve-reached-end-antibiotics-Top-CDC-expert-declares-miracle-drugs-saved-millions-match-superbugs-people-overmedicated-themselves.html



Below is a recipe I found for Thieves Oil, which is a blend of essential oils. Essential oils are said to be effective because they move past the blood brain barrier. It's called Thieves Oil because during the black plague years thieves and grave robbers would consume this as well as apply a diluted version liberally externally which was said to keep them from contracting the plague. Is there any validity to using this against the superbugs?

Thieves Oil recipe:
• 40 drops organic Clove Bud essential oil
• 35 drops organic Lemon essential oil
• 20 drops organic Cinnamon Bark essential oil
• 15 drops organic Eucalyptus essential oil
• 10 drops organic Rosemary essential oil
Mix all of these together and store in a dark, apothecary-style bottle. You could also mix these with about 2 tablespoons carrier oil to use as massage oil. (1 drop essential oil to 4 drops carrier oil is a good ratio.)

It's also recommend to include ‘lemongrass’ and ‘geranium’ into your mixture (as these have proven highly effective against MRSA and other bacterial strains.) Some other oils to incorporate if you want are Tea Tree, Oregano, Thyme, Sage, Ravensara, Lavender, Juniper Berry, Hyssop, Bay Laurel, or Scotch Pine. (Be mindful of oregano, it is very powerful and can irritate sensitive skin.)

[Scott R. Brown]

Do a Google search on Honey and MRSA. They are using it very successfully in Britain.

[Scott R. Brown]

BTW, we have known we have been coming towards the end of antibiotics for 20 years or so, so that article is more for sensationalism rather than reporting something new.

We also are still coming up with new antibiotics, but they tend to fall under rule of diminishing returns. Every year we start using antibiotics of which I have never heard. Most of the new ones are channeled to the MRSA infections.

[GoldenBrain]

Do a Google search on Honey and MRSA. They are using it very successfully in Britain.

Roger that! We use Manuka honey here. It's potent stuff. That's good for topical and stomach bugs, but what about internal for blood infections? I'm also interested in other topical treatments so if anybody has other suggestions then please add them.

I read a study recently where they discovered green tea is extremely antiseptic. It works great for cleaning surfaces that may harbor MRSA and other nasties. I don't know if the following link is the exact study I read but it showed up in a quick google search…
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763290/

[David Jamieson]

Do a Google search on Honey and MRSA. They are using it very successfully in Britain.

Honey is the age old bacteria barrier. Put honey on an open wound in the field, no infection will set in. Amazing stuff.

[taichi4eva]

i'll take vancomycin over honey any day.

[breeze]

In a german center for heart-thorax-surgery we use medical honey as "osmotic débridement" in wound therapy , but of cause also Vancomycin as systemic antibiotic. (sorry for my poor English).

[GoldenBrain]

Breeze, is medical honey a form of royal jelly? Please explain how it's different than regular raw honey. Thanks!

Thanks to taichi4eva and breeze! I've learned a new one…vancomycin. I had to look it up, but found it basically comes from the dirt.

[taichi4eva]

med student, so it's nice to see there are alternatives to MRSA treatment. i'll have to look up if we use honey in the US, but i wouldn't bring it up with my attending.

[Faux Newbie]

Honey is the age old bacteria barrier. Put honey on an open wound in the field, no infection will set in. Amazing stuff.

I'd never heard that before. Interesting.

[Scott R. Brown]

Thats why it works on MRSA.

I think Alexander the Great was packed in honey after he died to preserve his body for transport. If it wasn't him it was another ancient leader.

This has been known about honey for millenia.

[Faux Newbie]

I think I saw this once in a Kim Bassinger film.

[SoCo KungFu]

Antibiotics have not reached their end, nor will they. You won't be treating sepsis with honey.

1) People are freaking over this issue in recent years, but this is just evolution at work. We are simply selecting for the most resistant to what we have been using. But an organism can only do so much to compensate. And every evolved trait also means something has to give somewhere else, you can only do so much with limited chemistry. Any change in membrane structure one way, opens a potential target somewhere else.

2) Natural remedies are, well we know what I think of them. Actually, in terms of "natural" antibiotics, I think this is really one of the better strengths of natural remedies. Its really just chemistry, less refined, but chemistry. You can't put much stock in it though outside certain narrow circumstances. Salves are good and all, but really topical uses aren't really that big a deal. Soap and water gets you a long way in that situation. Certainly not the type of thing that matters in an emergency scenario, systemic. Unfortunately, the main issues we are having is in treating infections that have gone systemic. That said, a number of powerful antibiotics we use are based on of naturally occurring compounds. They've just been isolated, made more effective and concentrated in a pill.

3) This is only really hitting a few diseases (MRSA being the big one). You have to ask yourself who this impacts the most. That being the immuno-compromised, particularly the elderly. Most of us can tolerate a majority of the more harsh, older antibiobitics (we use them because of what I said above, any evolved resistance means a give somewhere else). The problem is the elderly that are already facing organ complications and are likely already taking a number of drugs, meaning their risk of toxicity is far higher than most of us here.

Basically, this is getting blown up by articles like this. It is an issue, no doubt. But its not the beginning of the end.

[GoldenBrain]

That's good to know SoCo. It's hard for people outside of the medical field to understand exactly what is going on especially when somebody from the CDC makes sensationalized statements like what is in the article.

[GoldenBrain]

Here's one for the outdoor survivalists. Pine sap will seal wounds like super glue and has the added bonus of being antiseptic.

This next use of pine sap probably deserves it's own thread. Indians have been making carbon fiber for thousands of years. Take pine sap, heat and mix with wood ash and coat that on the sinew that is wrapped around an arrow head which is affixed to an arrow shaft and you have carbon fiber. The same pine sap/wood ash mix can be used to glue a stone knife blade into an antler handle as well. Heat the handle a bit and jab the tang of the blade into it with the pinen sap/wood ash mix and when it cools it's solid. Spears can also be made like the arrows but with a larger point.

[Raipizo]

Not sure if you knew, pine needles cooked in tea form are high in vitamin C.

[GoldenBrain]

Not sure if you knew, pine needles cooked in tea form are high in vitamin C.

I do know this, and I certainly appreciate you sharing the information. Pine needle tea with a bit of honey is pretty tasty.

I'm an avid hiker so when I lived in North Carolina I used to run across sassafras root all the time. It also makes a pretty yummy tea. Something I learned from the mountain folk up there is how to make a tea made from the native holly. It's got a pretty good kick from the caffeine and supposedly is very high in antioxidants. It tastes just like green tea.

[Scott R. Brown]

Antibiotics have not reached their end, nor will they. You won't be treating sepsis with honey.

It's a topical application, not internal.

[Scott R. Brown]

I do know this, and I certainly appreciate you sharing the information. Pine needle tea with a bit of honey is pretty tasty.

I'm an avid hiker so when I lived in North Carolina I used to run across sassafras root all the time. It also makes a pretty yummy tea. Something I learned from the mountain folk up there is how to make a tea made from the native holly. It's got a pretty good kick from the caffeine and supposedly is very high in antioxidants. It tastes just like green tea.

I heard oleander tea is something to die for!:D

[GoldenBrain]

I heard oleander tea is something to die for!:D

Nice one! I guffawed…out loud even.:p


For those who might be considering oleander tea and don't know, it is toxic.


On a side note: I learned on the most recent episode of The Walking Dead that elderberry tea is good to drink for colds and flu. Of course I had to look it up and apparently it does have health benefits. Here's an article on it. http://www.livestrong.com/article/112431-elderberry-tea-benefits/

[Scott R. Brown]

Nice one! I guffawed…out loud even.:p


For those who might be considering oleander tea and don't know, it is toxic.

Yes, that is what they gave Socrates

[GoldenBrain]

Yes, that is what they gave Socrates

I thought it was hemlock, but really both will do you in pretty effectively. It's strange to me just how prevalent oleander is in landscaping, school yards…etc., considering how toxic it is.

[Scott R. Brown]

I thought it was hemlock, but really both will do you in pretty effectively. It's strange to me just how prevalent oleander is in landscaping, school yards…etc., considering how toxic it is.

I've actually heard both, I think I'll look it up.

I agree about the landscaping.

Yeah it looks like hemlock. I am trying to figure out what historical figure died from oleander now

[GoldenBrain]

I've actually heard both, I think I'll look it up.

I agree about the landscaping.

Yeah it looks like hemlock. I am trying to figure out what historical figure died from oleander now

I looked it up and so far can only find an urban tale of a boy scout troop being poisoned because they roasted hot dogs on oleander sticks. It'd probably make you sick doing this but I don't think there would be enough poison transferred to kill a person.

Edit: Okay, so I was just speaking to my mother in law who is visiting today. She said when they lived in Greece she would see signs along hiking trails and parks warning about the dangers of oleander. Apparently the northern Europeans who were not familiar with tropical oleander would sometimes use oleander branches to roast hot dogs and burn in fires. She said every year many people would get sick and a few would die from this. So, I guess roasting hot dogs on it can kill a person.

[Scott R. Brown]

Yeah I am thinking someone in Greece or Rome, either a person or a government used oleander instead of hemlock, but I can't find any reference either.

Maybe it was Persia. I put in just about every kind of search string I could think of, and didn't come up with anything. So, I am at a loss now of where I heard about oleander.

[Scott R. Brown]

A Brief History of the Oleander Plant (http://www.tbyil.com/oleander3.htm)


Medicinal use of the oleander plant dates back at least 3500 years. Historical records show that the Mesopotamians in the 15th century BC believed in the healing properties of oleander. The Babylonians used a mixture of oleander and licorice to treat hangovers. Roman soldiers also regularly took an oleander extract for hangovers. Pliny, the Elder of ancient Greece, wrote about the appearance and properties of oleander. Arab physicians first used oleander as a cancer treatment in the 8th century AD.

This is the best I've got so far.

[Scott R. Brown]

A Brief History of the Oleander Plant (http://www.tbyil.com/oleander3.htm)



This is the best I've got so far.

Clearly my imagination made it up out of thin air!:eek:

[GoldenBrain]

Clearly my imagination made it up out of thin air!:eek:

No worries. I'm sure you heard it somewhere, but you never know, it may have just come to you from the aether. It's just as bad as hemlock and listed as one of the 10 most common poison plants. It's interesting that it has medicinal uses.

[SoCo KungFu]

It's a topical application, not internal.

Yes, that was exactly my point.

[SoCo KungFu]

Regarding pine. Interesting thing about pine sap. There's a reason wood******s like pine trees.

[SoCo KungFu]

No worries. I'm sure you heard it somewhere, but you never know, it may have just come to you from the aether. It's just as bad as hemlock and listed as one of the 10 most common poison plants. It's interesting that it has medicinal uses.

First rule of toxicology, EVERYTHING is toxic. That's sort of the big point of the naturalist fallacy with regards to medicine. Even water can kill you. It all comes down to molarity. Toxicity is what makes medicine, medicine. Everything listed in this thread works because it either degrades cellular membrane, dehydrates a cell to point of death, interferes with transfer of oxygen, or other such rather nasty mechanisms. If there were any point I wish I could make clear to all the homeopathists of the world, its this here. There is no such thing as a non-toxic compound. Safe, is merely a matter of relative concentration. Toxicity, is why "medicine" is more powerful than "folk remedy." The very thing that people complain about with medicine, is the reason why it works to begin with. No one competent, ever argued that medicine was "good" for you. Its simply less bad for you than the infection you are trying to kill. And there's a danger the other way. If you take something that is not strong enough to actually kill what you are trying to get rid of, you now select for even stronger resistance in what you failed to kill.


Down south its always funny when you look at what people traditionally eat. Pokeweed soup, anyone?

[GoldenBrain]

Down south its always funny when you look at what people traditionally eat. Pokeweed soup, anyone?

We have that stuff all over our land. It's not very nutritious and has to be double boiled and for the record I've never tried it. Anybody know how it tastes? I'm picturing something like collard greens.



Safe, is merely a matter of relative concentration.

This should be the quote of the week.

There are a few sharp knives on this forum, a bunch of butter knives, and even a few wooden spoons, but you my friend are a scalpel. I'm thankful that you frequent these forums and as always I appreciate your response.

[SoCo KungFu]

We have that stuff all over our land. It's not very nutritious and has to be double boiled and for the record I've never tried it. Anybody know how it tastes? I'm picturing something like collard greens.

An old botanist I know used to eat it as a kid, claimed it tasted really acrid. I won't touch the stuff. If I'm going to eat a plant that could kill me, at least yuca tastes good.

[GoldenBrain]

An old botanist I know used to eat it as a kid, claimed it tasted really acrid. I won't touch the stuff. If I'm going to eat a plant that could kill me, at least yuca tastes good.

Cool, thanks! I think I'll pass on the poke salad as well. I'm not into acrid.

I had yuca a few months ago and loved it. It tasted like something between a sweet and white potato. I don't think yuca (one c) is poisonous, although I do believe yucca (two c's) is. It's a different plant despite the similarity in names. The one with two c's is an anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, lathering agent, or basically a soap.

I saw yuca at the store the other day and wondered how many people went home and dug up their poisonous yucca thinking they would get a tasty meal. I imagine the yucca cooked up with a nasty smelling soapy froth so hopefully they got the hint if they did in fact dig up a yucca to eat.

[SoCo KungFu]

Cool, thanks! I think I'll pass on the poke salad as well. I'm not into acrid.

I had yuca a few months ago and loved it. It tasted like something between a sweet and white potato. I don't think yuca (one c) is poisonous, although I do believe yucca (two c's) is. It's a different plant despite the similarity in names. The one with two c's is an anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, lathering agent, or basically a soap.

I saw yuca at the store the other day and wondered how many people went home and dug up their poisonous yucca thinking they would get a tasty meal. I imagine the yucca cooked up with a nasty smelling soapy froth so hopefully they got the hint if they did in fact dig up a yucca to eat.

Yucca are agavoids. Yuca (one c) is the toxic Cassava plant.

[GoldenBrain]

Yucca are agavoids. Yuca (one c) is the toxic Cassava plant.

I just read all kinds of information on yucca and yuca.:) You're right, yuca (cassava) is toxic and there are basically two different types. The smaller, sweet cassava can be boiled to remove the toxins, and the larger, bitter cassava needs to be ground into flower, soaked and leached several times to remove the toxins. Both contain cyanide, but the bitter one has much more.

Yucca does have edible parts and many other uses such as shampoo, so after a little more research I may add this one, especially the soap tree yucca to our landscape. One of my goals with this little farm is to fill the wild areas of our property with useful plants that don't need to be tended. Plants like aloe, possibly yucca, all kinds of medicinals like golden seal, echinacea, ginseng…etc., and of course wild edibles.

For those who may be interested, here's some information on yuca, and yucca. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassava
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca

[Syn7]

Here's one for the outdoor survivalists. Pine sap will seal wounds like super glue and has the added bonus of being antiseptic.

This next use of pine sap probably deserves it's own thread. Indians have been making carbon fiber for thousands of years. Take pine sap, heat and mix with wood ash and coat that on the sinew that is wrapped around an arrow head which is affixed to an arrow shaft and you have carbon fiber. The same pine sap/wood ash mix can be used to glue a stone knife blade into an antler handle as well. Heat the handle a bit and jab the tang of the blade into it with the pinen sap/wood ash mix and when it cools it's solid. Spears can also be made like the arrows but with a larger point.

Good to know. Filed away for future use. I've heard a lot of uses for saps, tried some on my own, but never as super glue. I was aware of people using it as an antiseptic, but never really looked into it. But the glue part I think could be very useful. Wish I knew that 15 years ago. Now I have to try this at home just to confirm, but it sounds pretty freakin handy in a pinch. Add that one to the repertoire for sure. How strong is it? How far do you trust it? How long does it last?

You think melaleuca alternifolia would do well where you live?

[GoldenBrain]

How strong is it? How far do you trust it? How long does it last?

You think melaleuca alternifolia would do well where you live?

Melaleuca alternifolia, is used for making tea tree oil. Awesome stuff and works well for the topic of this thread. It will grow in Texas, so I may have to look at planting some of it along our creek.

The pine sap holds well on wounds. It mixes with the blood, hardens and then seals tight. It's antiseptic qualities are well known. The original Pine-Sol ingredients were something like 12% pine oil.

If you use pine sap and wood ash to make glue it cools/dries hard as a rock. I've attached a photo of a knife that was made for me by my friend who is the head of archeology of the Choctaw nation. He only uses traditional methods and attached the blade on this knife to the antler handle using the pine sap carbon glue. You can see that it's black as onyx and a bit shiny even. I can tell you that the stone blade will break long before the glue. Most of the time when arrow heads break off a traditional arrow the glue and sinew wrap are left intact. In fact, Choctaw arrow heads that people find on the ground aren't normally from fired arrows because they don't fall off but rather break off. Most intact arrow heads are from a stash pile or discarded ones that didn't meet the makers criteria. Making this glue is definitely something you want to add to your personal inventory of skills.

7906

[Raipizo]

I do know this, and I certainly appreciate you sharing the information. Pine needle tea with a bit of honey is pretty tasty.

I'm an avid hiker so when I lived in North Carolina I used to run across sassafras root all the time. It also makes a pretty yummy tea. Something I learned from the mountain folk up there is how to make a tea made from the native holly. It's got a pretty good kick from the caffeine and supposedly is very high in antioxidants. It tastes just like green tea.

Taking an ecology course and on the hike the prof. showed us "wild carrot", sassafras, sumac, chicory plants. Chicory root can be used as a coffee substitute, too bad I don't drink coffee lol. I like the outdoors but it's basically winter a good third of the year here. That and we went on a trip to an organic farm a classmate co-owns small little place and that was pretty fun.

[GoldenBrain]

Taking an ecology course and on the hike the prof. showed us "wild carrot", sassafras, sumac, chicory plants. Chicory root can be used as a coffee substitute, too bad I don't drink coffee lol. I like the outdoors but it's basically winter a good third of the year here. That and we went on a trip to an organic farm a classmate co-owns small little place and that was pretty fun.

That sounds like a fun time out in the woods learning with the prof. We have staghorn sumac all around our property here in North Texas but sadly I haven't run across any sassafras since I was in NC. My great aunt used to make a pretty tasty sumac jelly. I'm not much of a jelly maker so I haven't tried it yet with our sumac but maybe one day. I didn't know that about chicory root, so thanks for sharing. I love learning new things. Oh, and I'm sure your professor warned you to be careful when harvesting wild carrot because it looks a lot like poison hemlock.

[Raipizo]

That sounds like a fun time out in the woods learning with the prof. We have staghorn sumac all around our property here in North Texas but sadly I haven't run across any sassafras since I was in NC. My great aunt used to make a pretty tasty sumac jelly. I'm not much of a jelly maker so I haven't tried it yet with our sumac but maybe one day. I didn't know that about chicory root, so thanks for sharing. I love learning new things. Oh, and I'm sure your professor warned you to be careful when harvesting wild carrot because it looks a lot like poison hemlock.

Yeah he did, I don't think we have any hemlock around here, not sure. I thought for awhile that the sumac with the red cone like flowers were like poison ivy, but I heard it wasn't. Yeah they used chicory root I believe in one of the wars for coffee. Not sure what it tastes like. I didn't know of most of these plants before my class. And I went wild ginseng hunting on my grandparents property and I did find an actual plant of it about a year ago, I never dug it up though I figured I'd let it be. Not sure if you've looked for that before but I'm pretty sure it grows in Texas.

[GoldenBrain]

I thought for awhile that the sumac with the red cone like flowers were like poison ivy, but I heard it wasn't.

I thought that too for a long time. I learned however that it is fairly rare to run across the poisonous type of sumac since it prefers to grow in the swamps. We do have loads of poison ivy on this property and one of these days when we get the entire thing fenced we'll let some goats run around to eat it up and keep it under control. Goats are awesome! They go for the green briar, poison ivy and other junk plants first.


And I went wild ginseng hunting on my grandparents property and I did find an actual plant of it about a year ago, I never dug it up though I figured I'd let it be. Not sure if you've looked for that before but I'm pretty sure it grows in Texas.

With the exception of Oregon and Washington state we are at the south western boundary of where ginseng grows. It doesn't like hot climates very much but we do have some growing on this property since it's heavily forested with old growth. The temperature difference is very noticeable between the woods and open meadows. I've never measured it but I'd say if it's 100 degrees outside the shaded woods will be something like in the low 80's.

[ShaolinDan]

When I was probably about ten, a friend of mine and I built a fort in a grove of poison sumac trees. That didn't work out very well.:o

[GoldenBrain]

When I was probably about ten, a friend of mine and I built a fort in a grove of poison sumac trees. That didn't work out very well.:o

Ouch!:eek:

I hear it's the worst of the three major ones (poison ivy, oak and sumac) to get. Thankfully my wife and I are not allergic to any of them so hopefully this will be passed on to our children.

[GoldenBrain]

Not that I mind being off topic, but to get back on track a little bit... I'm kind of surprised that there are over 600 views on this thread and not one mention of an internal TCM or other natural remedy for treating blood infections such as MRSA. There have been a few mentioned that I think are good for topical treatments but nothing internal for the big infections.

[Raipizo]

Not that I mind being off topic, but to get back on track a little bit... I'm kind of surprised that there are over 600 views on this thread and not one mention of an internal TCM or other natural remedy for treating blood infections such as MRSA. There have been a few mentioned that I think are good for topical treatments but nothing internal for the big infections.

Here you go, but if you were to do this I would make sure to do plenty of research
http://www.naturalnews.com/037074_natural_antibiotics_superbugs_flesh-eating_bacteria.html

[GoldenBrain]

Here you go, but if you were to do this I would make sure to do plenty of research
http://www.naturalnews.com/037074_natural_antibiotics_superbugs_flesh-eating_bacteria.html

That was interesting. Turmeric is one of the antibiotic/anti-virals listed in the article. I eat oatmeal mixed with turmeric, cinnamon, raisins and raw local honey just about every morning for breakfast. I wash it down with a green smoothie which normally consists of kale, carrots, ginger root, and whatever fruit I want to sweeten it with. I added turmeric a long time ago for it's anti-inflammatory properties. Knock on wood, but I never get sick so maybe turmerics antibiotic/anti-viral properties has something to do with this. Of course it could also be because I eat right and exercise regularly, and avoid people who are coughing up blood, but who knows.

[SoCo KungFu]

I stopped reading that article after about the 2nd paragraph when they went full retard


There are two methods of prevention for using natural medicines to fight antibiotic-resistant bacteria. One of the best ways to lower susceptibility is to strengthen your system by eating alkaline foods like fresh fruits and vegetables. The most effective way to obtain medicinal benefits from your food is through juicing. If you're scheduled for elective surgery, start juicing immediately to strengthen your immune system beforehand by creating an alkaline environment where no bacteria, fungus or virus can survive.

Who ever wrote this, obviously isn't capable of critical thinking. So sick of seeing this alkaline diet idiocy.

Never mind the fact that, its the freaking acid that is in the oils on our skin that aid in preventing bacterial infections...

[SoCo KungFu]

I stopped reading that article after about the 2nd paragraph when they went full retard



Who ever wrote this, obviously isn't capable of critical thinking. So sick of seeing this alkaline diet idiocy.

Never mind the fact that, its the freaking acid that is in the oils on our skin that aid in preventing bacterial infections...


Edit: Ok so I just went a couple sentences further and found this wonderful gem...


If you contract MRSA or a flesh-eating bacteria use one or more of the following natural treatments; or combine them with those mentioned in my other article. :eek:

This is thermonuclear grade stupid.

And one more comment. It takes more than listing a ton of sources in a blog post to make one legit. That laundry list of sources, are mostly garbage. The few that appear legit (ie. the fda and the dot edu's) are only there for citing definitions, not actual content. There is only one source that even approaches legitimacy, the one in science daily which still doesn't pass a real sniff meter as that is still a layperson interpretation on part of a writer that is marginally more scientifically literate than the general population. It is not an actual, scientific journal publication. It is attempting to translate such a publication for the general masses, and usually a great deal is lost in translation.

[Raipizo]

I never said it was credible lol. I just google searched and found it. I think the alkaline diet makes sense, people who eat fruits and vegetables are healthier anyway regardless of alkalinity though.

[GoldenBrain]

I stopped reading that article after about the 2nd paragraph when they went full retard.

:D That's hilarious! For the record I agree with you. All I found interesting was the bit on turmeric being antibiotic/anti-viral and I'm not even sure yet if that's correct.

[GoldenBrain]

I never said it was credible lol. I just google searched and found it. I think the alkaline diet makes sense, people who eat fruits and vegetables are healthier anyway regardless of alkalinity though.

Be careful falling into the alkaline diet craze. Thanks to SoCo setting me straight in another thread I have researched this subject a great deal. It's just not possible to measurably change your blood pH level. For one thing the pH in the stomach is highly acidic at around 2. something so if you could raise the pH then your body would be incapable of digesting food. In the lab they have shown cancer cells die at pH 8.1 and up but that pH would also kill you. Your body regulates a blood pH of something like 7.4 so anything below 7.2 or higher than 7.6 and you are in trouble. If you could somehow raise the blood pH to be more alkaline then your body would nearly instantly adjust to compensate.

[GoldenBrain]

This is thermonuclear grade stupid.

Hahahaha!!! Quote of the week!:D

[Raipizo]

:D That's hilarious! For the record I agree with you. All I found interesting was the bit on turmeric being antibiotic/anti-viral and I'm not even sure yet if that's correct.

I'm not crazy over the diet, I just stick to eating dark leafy greens and I try to eat the stuff highest on the Andi score list along with other fruits and such. I've heard from several places turmeric is really good but it's kinda spicy I might start adding a little powder to my morning tea. As for how good it is for that spectrum of disease I dunno. But again these outbreaks are usually small and MRSA isn't something I myself worry about and I work in healthcare I just wash my hands and wear gloves. Antibiotics should be phased out when they can and search for alternatives as these disease are becoming more and more resistant to even our last ditch effort strongest stuff available. Natural remedies and stuff just catch my interest so I read up on that stuff frequently. What do you use to make your smoothies btw?

[GoldenBrain]

You can't go wrong eating leafy greens, fruits and veggies. Balance is key. We just bought a mac daddy 1500 watt Ninja Ultimate blender so we are going smoothie crazy. We have always made smoothies with our cheap blender, but now we can turn the leafy greens, carrots, nuts and whole fruits into liquid without having to manually stir up the blender every few seconds.

I'm not sure how good turmeric would be in tea so please share how it tastes after you experiment a little bit. It's really good in oatmeal though. I wrote in an earlier post what I add to oatmeal, but I forgot to mention that I also add almond butter that we make ourselves. So, almond butter, turmeric, cinnamon, raisin and raw honey. Yummy! I think turmerics best use is as an anti-inflammatory.

I'm not to worried about MRSA either but it's always good to be informed about various treatments. Hopefully somebody will reply to this thread with a valid TCM method for treating internal bacterial infections. For now I'll stick with western medicine for this one.

[Syn7]

I eat whole foods. I don't eat more than I really need to. Usually top up to around 80% or so. All is good. And considering the other abuses I have put my body through, I'm confident in saying that it has worked well for me. I'm no doctor, and maybe I'm just lucky, but eating a well balanced non processed diet seems to be more than enough to keep me going at a high level. I also eat more smaller meals throughout the day and find that I don't have those energy peaks and valleys. I wake up ready to go and I'm good till I pass out after my night time bong tokes. :D

So far so good.

[GoldenBrain]

Hahahaha, I like your style Syn! One day, after we end prohibition in the remaining 30 states I'd like to rip a few tubes with you. Until then enjoy those besters and think of us poor *******s in the land of oppression. ;):D

[Syn7]

Yeah man, it's scary how much time you can get for weed where you're at.

[Raipizo]

That sounds like good oatmeal, old fashioned oatmeal or steel cut? I agree with you both. I read up on Dr. Fuhrmans books and I recommend those. I'm looking into getting a nutribullet, relatively cheap and I can use it for all sorts of things. I will let you know about the tea. I've tried it before in some nettle and red clover tea I made for my girlfriend I believe it was that anyway, it tastes pretty good on its own and has good stuff in it for you and it basically tastes like black tea which we are used to having in the house. I just need to start making smoothies because I really don't have that much vegetable intake at home we have plenty of fruit at home but not much for vegetables, just the basic stuff lettuce, celery etc. I like this thread, it amuses me :D

[GoldenBrain]

Yeah man, it's scary how much time you can get for weed where you're at.

Yep, this state is no joke. Being a family man I have no choice but to stay away from it for now. It's too bad really because it's good meds and safe for recreational use. I'm pretty sure the only thing unsafe about it is the combustion and that can be mitigated by vaping and eating the stuff.

There are 20 states that have legalized it for medical use and 2 for both medical and recreational. There are probably going to be another 10 of the 20 this November that will make it recreationally legal. At least those 10 are voting on it. The latest polls show that 58 percent of this country wants to end prohibition and make it completely legal. I would not want to be one of the last states left who keep it illegal, especially not on the boarder with Mexico. It's already drying up the dealers and cartels in the legal states so where do they think these criminals will go but to the illegal states where prices and demand will still be sky high. If there's any argument for legalizing that may sway the neo-cons, it's to dry up cartels and put dealers out of business or at least make it so they have to sell it under regulation like alcohol. Oh, and they can tax it! Greed works too.

[GoldenBrain]

That sounds like good oatmeal, old fashioned oatmeal or steel cut? I agree with you both. I read up on Dr. Fuhrmans books and I recommend those. I'm looking into getting a nutribullet, relatively cheap and I can use it for all sorts of things. I will let you know about the tea. I've tried it before in some nettle and red clover tea I made for my girlfriend I believe it was that anyway, it tastes pretty good on its own and has good stuff in it for you and it basically tastes like black tea which we are used to having in the house. I just need to start making smoothies because I really don't have that much vegetable intake at home we have plenty of fruit at home but not much for vegetables, just the basic stuff lettuce, celery etc. I like this thread, it amuses me :D

I like both steel cut and old fashioned oatmeal. Not the precooked old fashioned either. I just don't see the point in precooked which saves one minute of cooking and it doesn't taste as good. Mr. Brown, the king of jesters:D gave me a good recipe where he adds eggs to his oatmeal. It's good as a mutha, so I'll post it below. Just don't overcook it because it gets kind of pasty and does something wrong to the taste. Play around with it and you'll get it.

I like that nutribullet. We got the Ninja for larger volume stuff like soups, making our own nut butters, almond milk…etc and it comes with two single serve cups. It was expensive though, but not as much as the Blendtek or Vitamix. With 1500 watts and 24,000 rpm it works just as well. I think a blender needs to be at least 1000 watts to be able to handle the leafy greens and nuts well.

Lettuce and celery are good but not much nutrition in them. If you haven't looked into it I'd recommend trying kale and spinach in your green smoothies since they have tons of nutrients. They also sell green powder at health food shops. We use one called Perfect Food Raw from Garden of Life. It's a powder mix of green sprouts, veggies and whole leaf grass powders. We grow our own sprouts but I haven't gotten into growing wheat grass and other types yet so this is our attempt to add these nutrients to our diet.


Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown
My oatmeal breakfast consists of:

1/2 cup whole oats
2 eggs cooked in with the oats
raisins cooked in with the oats
peanut butter added after cooked
apple sauce added after cooked
for added taste at times, cinnamon, or real vanilla, or rarely honey.

[Raipizo]

I don't do smoothies yet but definitely will be adding kale and items of the like. Yeah they are not high in nutrients really, celery leaves have most of the nutrition of the vegetable. I plan on using kale and other greens, some berries and flax seeds nuts or chia seeds. I'm just starting out making smoothies so I'm going to start small, Vitamixs' are friggin expensive.

Sounds pretty good there chef brown, not sure about the egg lol. I eat Wheatena in the morning usually or just cereal and white tea along with my vitamins.

[Syn7]

I buy fruit for about 4 days, chop it up, freeze it. Buy this freakin awesome local homemade small batch yogurt from this lady down the street from my dads. Get some sort of milk, not always dairy. Depends on what's available. Assorted greens depending on the time of year, drop in a lil flax oil and blend that up. Soooo good. I freeze the fruit so that the smoothie is cold and slushy. I don't like it when people add ice. There are so many directions you can take with smoothies.


It never occurred to me to put an egg in oatmeal.

[GoldenBrain]

I buy fruit for about 4 days, chop it up, freeze it. Buy this freakin awesome local homemade small batch yogurt from this lady down the street from my dads. Get some sort of milk, not always dairy. Depends on what's available. Assorted greens depending on the time of year, drop in a lil flax oil and blend that up. Soooo good. I freeze the fruit so that the smoothie is cold and slushy. I don't like it when people add ice. There are so many directions you can take with smoothies.


It never occurred to me to put an egg in oatmeal.

Smoothies are just awesome!!! We do the exact same thing with our fruit only we grow a lot of it ourselves. We also grow the kale and other veggies. Anything else we buy local organic. Our bananas won't bear fruit until next year so unfortunately we have to buy that from the store. We never use ice in our smoothies either because frozen fruit is so much better. We also add hemp seed to just about every smoothie.

We don't drink regular milk anymore. Instead we use almond and coconut milk. Almond for the protein and coconut for the calcium. Both have half the sugars of store bought milk. I wish we had a place to buy locally made yogurt but for now we buy a good greek yogurt from our local organic foods store.

The egg in oatmeal thing never occurred to me either before Scott mentioned it. The first time I made it I cooked it way too long so it really tasted rank. The second time was excellent but it has some heft to it and will weigh you down so plan accordingly. I don't make it very often because it's just easier to make oatmeal my way and wolf down a couple of hard boiled eggs.

[Raipizo]

I've grown wheat and barley grass, I just saw you mentioned that earlier. It's easy to grow but it doesn't taste all that well you could probably add the juice to your smoothies or try to add the grass in, heard the grass fiber is indigestible so experiment a little. Got my seeds from http://www.wheatgrasskits.com/ and I need to get back into growing it I just can't stand the taste on its own really.

[GoldenBrain]

I've grown wheat and barley grass, I just saw you mentioned that earlier. It's easy to grow but it doesn't taste all that well you could probably add the juice to your smoothies or try to add the grass in, heard the grass fiber is indigestible so experiment a little. Got my seeds from http://www.wheatgrasskits.com/ and I need to get back into growing it I just can't stand the taste on its own really.

Cool, thanks! I may try wheat grass juice one day in our smoothies. I need to get a juicer made just for the grass though because as you said the grass fiber is indigestible. For now we'll just stick to the green powder.

Do you grow sprouts? We grow alfalfa and mung bean sprouts mostly but sometimes radish, clover and broccoli. I like the alfalfa best and add them to all sorts of things including the smoothies. I also make a killer turkey sandwich with them. Turkey, cream cheese, avocado, and sprouts on a really fresh croissant or potato bread. Of course I make all kinds of sandwiches but this one is a standout and probably my favorite.

[Raipizo]

Cool, thanks! I may try wheat grass juice one day in our smoothies. I need to get a juicer made just for the grass though because as you said the grass fiber is indigestible. For now we'll just stick to the green powder.

Do you grow sprouts? We grow alfalfa and mung bean sprouts mostly but sometimes radish, clover and broccoli. I like the alfalfa best and add them to all sorts of things including the smoothies. I also make a killer turkey sandwich with them. Turkey, cream cheese, avocado, and sprouts on a really fresh croissant or potato bread. Of course I make all kinds of sandwiches but this one is a standout and probably my favorite.

Yeah I do, I use a sprout sack (hemp like bag) but I always grow too much and never end up eating it all before it goes bad. I use a sprout mix and it has radish alfalfa and I believe buckwheat. It's pretty good.

[GoldenBrain]

Yeah I do, I use a sprout sack (hemp like bag) but I always grow too much and never end up eating it all before it goes bad. I use a sprout mix and it has radish alfalfa and I believe buckwheat. It's pretty good.

Excellent! I use a 4 round tray system. We are usually finishing up the last of the sprouts buy the time the next batch is ready.

For the survivalists out there… I can't say enough about sprouting. Alfalfa is the best bang for the buck since it contains all the veggie nutrition you need, and the seeds are tiny meaning you can store a whole bunch of them in a very small space. It requires only a small amount of water, no sunlight and you can harvest every 4 or 5 days.

[Raipizo]

Excellent! I use a 4 round tray system. We are usually finishing up the last of the sprouts buy the time the next batch is ready.

For the survivalists out there… I can't say enough about sprouting. Alfalfa is the best bang for the buck since it contains all the veggie nutrition you need, and the seeds are tiny meaning you can store a whole bunch of them in a very small space. It requires only a small amount of water, no sunlight and you can harvest every 4 or 5 days.

On the topic of survival http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=g8ctrcpQhTY and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oa7ifmHm4U

Sprouts are also really good for you and very easy to grow.

[GoldenBrain]

On the topic of survival http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=g8ctrcpQhTY and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oa7ifmHm4U

Sprouts are also really good for you and very easy to grow.

Heck yeah! That's a pretty easy design right there. When I backpack I go ultralight so I usually take a couple of pepsi can stoves with me. They weigh next to nothing. Take a small bottle of alcohol and your set for several days. I have friends who use MSR type stoves and their setup is not only a pain in the arse but also takes up room in the pack and sounds like a jet engine. I've converted several buddies to alcohol stoves.

Here's a tip to save fuel if you're in an area where campfires are no problem. Dig a little post hole about 5" wide by 5" deep. Set a few small rocks on either side to put your pot on and to allow the hole to breath. Fill the hole up with red hot coals from the fire and get to cooking. Of course you can always cook right on the fire but that can get hot so I like to set back a little bit and not fight the smoke.

I'm sure there's a survival thread somewhere on these forums but this one will do for these off topic diversions, at least until somebody can answer my original question.:D

Speaking of the original question. I have searched online for hours/days and am now of the opinion that Traditional Chinese Medicine is better for easing symptoms and improving general health than it is for curing major issues. I can't find anything that will treat serious internal infections such as MRSA. There are cancer treatments such as eating sea cucumber and shark fin soup and stuff like that but I can't find one completed peer reviewed study to back up the claims. I'm tempted to file TCM under nutrition rather than medicine but I'll remain open minded for now.

[Raipizo]

Heck yeah! That's a pretty easy design right there. When I backpack I go ultralight so I usually take a couple of pepsi can stoves with me. They weigh next to nothing. Take a small bottle of alcohol and your set for several days. I have friends who use MSR type stoves and their setup is not only a pain in the arse but also takes up room in the pack and sounds like a jet engine. I've converted several buddies to alcohol stoves.

Here's a tip to save fuel if you're in an area where campfires are no problem. Dig a little post hole about 5" wide by 5" deep. Set a few small rocks on either side to put your pot on and to allow the hole to breath. Fill the hole up with red hot coals from the fire and get to cooking. Of course you can always cook right on the fire but that can get hot so I like to set back a little bit and not fight the smoke.

I'm sure there's a survival thread somewhere on these forums but this one will do for these off topic diversions, at least until somebody can answer my original question.:D

Speaking of the original question. I have searched online for hours/days and am now of the opinion that Traditional Chinese Medicine is better for easing symptoms and improving general health than it is for curing major issues. I can't find anything that will treat serious internal infections such as MRSA. There are cancer treatments such as eating sea cucumber and shark fin soup and stuff like that but I can't find one completed peer reviewed study to back up the claims. I'm tempted to file TCM under nutrition rather than medicine but I'll remain open minded for now.

A lot of tcm is eating stuff lol. They may not have anything suited for MRSA I don't think it's been around that long unless I'm wrong.

[SoCo KungFu]

I'm tempted to file TCM under nutrition rather than medicine but I'll remain open minded for now.

Here's the thing about TCM. Or rather, all medicine. Or if you really wanted to get to it, all thinking in general. Its just a conceptual model. This is the problem for so many people, including many here. They don't understand how the brain actually works, how information is actually processed. Any time you engage in logical thought, you are invoking a conceptual model. This is what we do. When you decide to unpack your winter clothes in November, you do so because you have reasonable experience (data) to make a prediction that its going to be cold. Not only that, but for an appreciable span of time. That's a model. You have a response variable (clothing choice) as a function of predictors (temperature and season) and you have potential variability (temps won't be constant every day, but there is a general trend of cold).

So what does this mean? TCM, Western medicine, etc. are all nothing more than elaborate models. They are based on some observation, attempt to make some explanation for the observation and attempt to make a prediction based on that information. So this tells you a lot about TCM when you look at it in this way, as a model. It tells you why something can make a correct prediction, but still be wrong. That's the big thing right? People here defend some of the claims of TCM based on it correctness in certain situations. They defend certain claims based on the mechanism of "chi" and the like. And when you attempt to criticize the claim, they defend the model (chi, etc.) based on its correct prediction elsewhere. Which not coincidentally, sounds like any model, western med included.

So what's the issue? Well, not all observations are equal. Some observations are less revealing, some less accurate, some simply wrong. This is the flaw of TCM, the method of observation is entirely insufficient. Its simply external observation, there's no real empiricism. Nor is there any attempt to address physiology as we now know it. This, is also why chi and such concepts are not real. People try to dismiss the criticism saying we've simply misinterpreted chi. "It's not energy." Yeah, its not, energy is measurable. Chi is also not any of the other things that people claim it is. It doesn't exist, period. Why? Its very appropriate when some say that there isn't an appropriate word in English. Because its simply a product of a conceptual model. A model that is entirely without context in western thought. Its an attempt to explain observations, but it itself doesn't exist outside of that model (which is why the model is flawed). Where as, blood chemistry exists regardless. Anatomy and physiology are concrete, tangible, quantifiable. Any explanations based off such concrete observations are already so much further along than one with is based on something which is unverifiable. Now that doesn't mean that western med is always right. Nor does it mean that TCM can't be right where western med is wrong. But it means that one prediction set is based off verifiable data, while the other is not. So TCM can make proper predictions while still being completely incorrect in its construct. The danger is that it will (and does) make many many more incorrect predictions than a model that is firmly based in the concrete empirical evidence.

The problem here, is that people think that these systems are concrete things. They are all nothing more than mental exercises. But the anatomy, the physiology, the chemistry underlying the western model is firmly concrete. That's the difference, that's why one has more power. This is basic stats yes? No model is right. But some models have a better fit than others.

[GoldenBrain]

Well said SoCo. Thank you!

[GoldenBrain]

A lot of tcm is eating stuff lol.

Indeed. I doubt injecting shark fin soup would do the body any good.:D

[Raipizo]

I say both have their advantages, western medicine relies heavily on prescriptions and surgeries both of which have a tendency to fail and be very costly. Tcm doesn't use these but relies on old style medicines and bodywork. Now I would probably use western medicine for diabetes or something serious but for say a sprain, I would try to avoid using pills etc. I don't like taking toxic prescriptions but that's just me. You can always use both in conjunction most usually anyway also.

[SoCo KungFu]

I say both have their advantages, western medicine relies heavily on prescriptions and surgeries both of which have a tendency to fail and be very costly. Tcm doesn't use these but relies on old style medicines and bodywork. Now I would probably use western medicine for diabetes or something serious but for say a sprain, I would try to avoid using pills etc. I don't like taking toxic prescriptions but that's just me. You can always use both in conjunction most usually anyway also.

1) No, that's incorrect. Western med functions quite heavily on diet, exercise and the like. Here's the problem, what are you going to do as a medical professional if you have a patient "walking" into your office grossly out of shape and exhibiting absolutely zero will to do the things that will actually correct their situation? You can tell people to exercise and eat right until you're blue in the face, but you can't make them do it. So you give them the info and in the mean time control what you can through chemistry.

2) Chemistry is chemistry. There is nothing different in TCM chemistry vs western chemistry. Except western chemistry is verified to work on some level where as much of what is in TCM has not. Its all about relative dosage. The perfect example of this food vs medicine stuff is resveratrol. Yeah, its in food. And yeah, it has effects on treating cancer. No cover up conspiracies, no attempts by the evil pharm industry to keep it suppressed. Perfectly public knowledge. Its also perfectly useless. Why? Because to get the dosage required to actually do anything meaningful, you'd have to drink about 120 glasses of wine every single day. Concentration. The issue is, yeah, when you make things in the required molarity, it's toxic. What's more important at that point? Side effects or dying of cancer? No chemical, at therapeutic levels, is without toxic consequences. Think of it this way. How much vitamin c would you get from a single orange? How many oranges can you actually eat? Do you think you could get the same amount as you would by drinking a glass of juice? Or better yet, taking a vitamin pill? What are the side effects of those? That's a lot of acid in a glass. You can only get so much from food. At some point, we have to give nature a boost.

I'd venture to say TCM fails far more often than western procedures. Far far more often. But to say that western medicine doesn't approach things holistically is insidiously inaccurate. Its market slandering by the alt med industry. Western doctors most definitely attempt to address the underlying life style issues. The problem is most people don't give two ****s about making those efforts.

[Raipizo]

Never heard of western medicine going holistic, unless you go to a specialty clinic. A lot more people are starting to take better care of their diets I think. Vitamins are a little different than prescriptions. Just saying I'd rather not take prescription pills. And the thing is doctors want you coming back so why have you lose weight and avoid diabetes when I can get you a pill. Some aren't like that but many I am sure are. But that's my opinion.

[SoCo KungFu]

Never heard of western medicine going holistic, unless you go to a specialty clinic. A lot more people are starting to take better care of their diets I think. Vitamins are a little different than prescriptions. Just saying I'd rather not take prescription pills.

Holistic: relating to or concerned with complete systems rather than with individual parts

It is patently false to say that western medicine does not consider the whole. It's BS spewed from alt med proponents trying to push their product. In fact, by the above definition, I'd say western medicine is more "holistic" than TCM, because western medicine is built off a model that actually utilizes the internal chemistry of a body. It actually considers the effects of a drug from the largest possible scale (that being entire communities in some cases, like vaccines) to the smallest (an individual enzyme), and any and all interactions with anything else a person may have going on. There's a reason why you have to list all those allergies and life habits when you fill out your medical history. TCM doesn't even come close to being truly holistic.

Vitamins are no different than a prescription medication. Its simply something deemed less toxic by a governing body based on chemical reactivity. In both cases you're putting some chemical compound in your body. A vitamin can be quite toxic. Have someone with high ambient blood iron to take a multivitamin and see how long they last before violent vomiting ensues.


And the thing is doctors want you coming back so why have you lose weight and avoid diabetes when I can get you a pill. Some aren't like that but many I am sure are. But that's my opinion.

You got proof? I'm so sick of hearing this horse****. Its really funny how many people suck up this nonsense. Then you look at the source. There's a reason I keep saying the term alt med industry. You're pushing marketing propaganda. Demonize western med, prey on those patients most vulnerable, the ones that technology has failed because medicine isn't perfect. Tell them its not their fault, they were led astray by the evil doctors and pharm. Then give them some BS snake oil cure. Alkaline diet, sugar pills, chi healing. You name it. Profit.

We live in a capitalist world. If you think for one second that alt med isn't in search of green, that its on some moral high ground as an industry that is somehow superior to standardized medical practices, then you're naive. But only one of these bodies is pounded with USME. There's a reason medical ethics is a part of every prospective med student interview process, every curriculum, every practice. Your integrity is assessed from the moment you have your first interview. Does that mean everyone is a paragon of moral integrity? Of course not. But given the ratio, I'd say they do a pretty good job of weeding out the con artists and the morally bankrupt. At least better than alt med.

Never mind how asinine of a claim that is. Doctors want you coming back so they keep you just, "not sick?" What sense does that make in a country where you have the choice to find a different doctor, or take matters into your own hands? Doctors do all they can, because getting you better, is what brings a patient back. Do you take your car to the same mechanic that trashed your engine during the last oil change?

This mess is downright offensive.

[Raipizo]

I will just continue going about my own way.

[Scott R. Brown]

I will just continue going about my.

If "going one's own way" involves wandering around aimlessly in search of an original thought, one may want to reconsider their direction.

Folk medicine was around for thousands of years and TCM is just that, folk medicine. I am not saying some of it doesn't work, however folk medicine had thousands of years to come up with vaccines, antibiotics, brain surgery, arthroscopic surgery, heart, liver, cornea and kidney transplants, etc. They didn't. It took modern scientific techniques and pharmaceutical companies.

If you are in a car wreck, get a mrsa infection or need a heart transplant, or breast implants:D you will be glad for western medicine.

[GoldenBrain]

breast implants:D


Hehe, you said breast.:p Okay, sorry, that was juvenile but I just couldn't help myself.


Back to serious...:cool: What I am taking away from this thread of almost 2,000 views and my inability to find the information I'm looking for online is that there is no TCM treatment for major internal infections or minor ones for that matter.

For the record, I didn't create this thread to troll TCM but rather to learn about alternative treatments on the off chance that we actually are running out of antibiotics. At this point I am of the opinion that this story about us running out of antibiotics has been sensationalized but that doesn't mean that I will not continue my search. I like the idea of natural therapies that I have the power to grow or harvest for myself. Antibiotics are good and I will take them when needed but it's not something I can grow in my greenhouse so the search continues.

Also, thanks for the replies so far. I have enjoyed the discussions both on and off topic.

[Syn7]

Dunno if you guys saw this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/science/herbal-supplements-are-often-not-what-they-seem.html?_r=1&

[Scott R. Brown]

Dunno if you guys saw this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/science/herbal-supplements-are-often-not-what-they-seem.html?_r=1&

Yes I read that. A number of years ago, I had a subscription to a company that did verification studies on supplements, so I have been aware of the fraud for 10 years or so. "Nature Made" vitamins and supplements always scored the highest in all of their studies so I quit my membership and just resolved to get as many of may supplements from "Nature Made" as I could. Although I get my Vitamin D from "Carlson", and I'll probably get my next batch of fish oil from them too.

[GoldenBrain]

Dunno if you guys saw this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/science/herbal-supplements-are-often-not-what-they-seem.html?_r=1&

Thanks for that! I knew that fraud was a problem but I didn't think it was at that level. Fortunately our family is able to get pretty much everything we need from our foods but for those who can't this could be a real problem.

[Raipizo]

If "going one's own way" involves wandering around aimlessly in search of an original thought, one may want to reconsider their direction.

Folk medicine was around for thousands of years and TCM is just that, folk medicine. I am not saying some of it doesn't work, however folk medicine had thousands of years to come up with vaccines, antibiotics, brain surgery, arthroscopic surgery, heart, liver, cornea and kidney transplants, etc. They didn't. It took modern scientific techniques and pharmaceutical companies.

If you are in a car wreck, get a mrsa infection or need a heart transplant, or breast implants:D you will be glad for western medicine.

Didn't say it was my original thought. Or say western medicine totally failed or something I just don't religiously go there to stay healthy. And yes hehe breasts.

[SoCo KungFu]

Dunno if you guys saw this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/science/herbal-supplements-are-often-not-what-they-seem.html?_r=1&

Yeah, I've seen that. That's the double edged sword when it comes to herbal supplements. They're cheap and easily accessible because supplements aren't under FDA oversight. But that also means there's a ton of crap on the market. This ALSO applies to TCM, because all of this stuff is considered a supplement. Because of this, for the life of me I can't understand why TCM practitioners are so hard on wanting their stuff to be considered "medicine." It would mean that over half the stuff they use would likely no longer be accessible.

[Syn7]

Yeah. It's one of those things that I had already heard elsewhere. From what I understand, it used to be a lot worse. So... there is that. I'm usually pretty weary of fads. It's an interesting read. Alotta things you are inclined to believe but don't have any real evidence to show, this is one of those things for me. Kinda like when Snowden released documents and everyone is freaking out, many of us were like "yeah, and? The new news is where?". But it's cool to see the herbal argument is starting to be scrutinized more by the average guy who may buy into whatever is popular. I see it a ton with food around where I live. The stuff people circulate is basically plucked from thin air. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they aren't, but the people spouting it haven't got a clue either way. They believe what they want to believe because they want to believe. It is what it is, I guess. I'm just getting tired of anecdotal evidence being paraded as law.

As for TCM, that's the rub. You aren't taken as seriously as a medicine man if you can't call yourself that, but in order to do so you are increasingly subject to standards that are not set within your organization(s). They say they are misunderstood, regulators say they are vague, elusive and sloppy. I'm glad it's not my job to deal with any of that. No fun. I like machines, at least when they are temperamental you can just crack em open and fix/change them. I have all the patience in the world to fix a complex mechanical/electrical problem, but with people... not so much.

[Raipizo]

Off topic but GB you said you got a ninja blender right? Which version, debating between nutribullet and ninja :P but can't find a video with the full kitchen system version.

[GoldenBrain]

Off topic but GB you said you got a ninja blender right? Which version, debating between nutribullet and ninja :P but can't find a video with the full kitchen system version.

No worries ever about going off topic in my threads. At some point they always get back on track.

We bought the Ultima model at Target. They have a 30 dollar gift card that you get at checkout so we figured it was a decent deal. Here's a link… http://www.target.com/p/ninja-ultima-blender-with-single-serve/-/A-14665176#prodSlot=medium_1_4&term=ninja+blender

I give it high marks. So far we have made all kinds of green and fruit smoothies so I can tell you it handles kale, carrots, nuts, and other fruit without having to cut them up into bits and there's no tamping or stirring to get things mixed up in the blender. It will turn seeds and nuts into liquid and it even handles pineapple cores which has tons of nutrients. We've also made several kinds of soups and almond butter. It works great!

[Raipizo]

I think I might even get a vitamix, refurbished for around $300.

[Syn7]

I have a cheap piece of **** that I modified a bit. And I made a new seal cause the original one broke on like day two!

300 bucks for a used blender... ****in hell!

I think I might be cheap, guys. :o
Or maybe that's just a ton of money for a small motor, a potentiometer and a few blades! Surely it cleans itself, pours your drink and climbs back into the cupboard on it's own, yes?

[Raipizo]

Basically just a used base. They give a new container thing and vitamix blenders go for a crapload, so $300 is like 200 off regular price. And it's company refurbished with a big warranty. And strongly made in Cleveland :D

[Raipizo]

I have a cheap piece of **** that I modified a bit. And I made a new seal cause the original one broke on like day two!

300 bucks for a used blender... ****in hell!

I think I might be cheap, guys. :o
Or maybe that's just a ton of money for a small motor, a potentiometer and a few blades! Surely it cleans itself, pours your drink and climbs back into the cupboard on it's own, yes?

Plus the reviews are really nice, so it's a nice investment that will last a long time. I wish it would climb in the cupboard and it is self cleaning actually pour in soap and water and run on high :p

[Raipizo]

I added some turmeric to my white tea this morning GB, I added only a few pinches, so it wasn't overwhelming I figure some is better than none right? Didn't really taste it at all so that was good.

[GoldenBrain]

I added some turmeric to my white tea this morning GB, I added only a few pinches, so it wasn't overwhelming I figure some is better than none right? Didn't really taste it at all so that was good.

That's cool. I was wondering. I guess I could just make up some tea and try it but I thought I use you as a guinea pig.lol:D

I think you'll like the Vitamix. It's expensive but I hear good things about them. It'll even make hot soup just from the high rpm's.

[GoldenBrain]

I have a cheap piece of **** that I modified a bit. And I made a new seal cause the original one broke on like day two.

Leave it to the engineer. I like it! I'm sure you didn't get outrageous but the image I have in my mind is a blender attached to something that resembles a jet turbine.:p

[Raipizo]

Lol I see how it is now. Just attach a huge glass container to a airboat fan. Ultimate blender.

[Syn7]

lol. nothing fancy. just added a potentiometer so I could control the speed and upped the rpm's a lil. Same motor, same everything really. And the seal thing was just cause the piece of **** broke.

I wish I had a turboshaft. Not the easiest thing to build, and bloody expensive to buy. But man, the projects you could do with that. This is when I do the mr burns finger thing saying "yeeeesss, yeessss" lol. You can get lil ones for RC copters and whatnot. They are a few grand at the low end. Machining a one off would be ridiculous work(not that I would even try), and I can't justify spending five grand on a "cheap" one.

[GoldenBrain]

If I ever win the lottery syn I'll buy you a few of those mini turboshafts just to see what you can come up with.

Hey raipizo! I was checking the specs on the vitamix and the motor and rpm's are the same as the ninja ultima so you might want to take that into consideration. The main difference I see is the ninja has a stacked blade on top of the bottom blades which creates that vortex they like to show in their commercials. With the vitamix you might still need to tamp stuff down but not with the ninja.

[Raipizo]

If I ever win the lottery syn I'll buy you a few of those mini turboshafts just to see what you can come up with.

Hey raipizo! I was checking the specs on the vitamix and the motor and rpm's are the same as the ninja ultima so you might want to take that into consideration. The main difference I see is the ninja has a stacked blade on top of the bottom blades which creates that vortex they like to show in their commercials. With the vitamix you might still need to tamp stuff down but not with the ninja.

Isn't the ninja laden with chemicals and even have a label on the box?

[GoldenBrain]

Isn't the ninja laden with chemicals and even have a label on the box?

It has a BPA free pitcher so no worries there. Besides, you have to get plastics hot like in the dishwasher in order to leach out any chemicals. We live as green as possible in our household so we did a lot of research before buying it. So far it's been a great blender. You need to get the ultima model though for it to compare to the vitamix.

[Raipizo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=ZI0PEviX0qg :p I found this.

[GoldenBrain]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=ZI0PEviX0qg :p I found this.

I think the vitamix is a great blender so I don't think you could go wrong with one. That reviewer seemed a little bit biased towards the vitamix though. Many of the failures appeared to be more of an operator issue rather than the ninjas fault.

It's true about leakage when blending hot liquid in the ninja. One time we made soup that was a little too hot it sprayed out the seal due to the build up in pressure. The directions warn against doing this, however we decided to push the limits and paid the price by having to clean up a sizable tomato soup mess.

The lead and other chemicals they are referring to is a trace amount in the power cord. It's unlikely that we would ever purposely blend up its power cord so I'm not to worried about this one. Although they don't state it I think it's likely there's a similar trace amount of lead and other chemicals in the vitamix's power cord. I'm not an electrician so I'm just thinking out loud here with this assumption.

[Raipizo]

I think the vitamix is a great blender so I don't think you could go wrong with one. That reviewer seemed a little bit biased towards the vitamix though. Many of the failures appeared to be more of an operator issue rather than the ninjas fault.

It's true about leakage when blending hot liquid in the ninja. One time we made soup that was a little too hot it sprayed out the seal due to the build up in pressure. The directions warn against doing this, however we decided to push the limits and paid the price by having to clean up a sizable tomato soup mess.

The lead and other chemicals they are referring to is a trace amount in the power cord. It's unlikely that we would ever purposely blend up its power cord so I'm not to worried about this one. Although they don't state it I think it's likely there's a similar trace amount of lead and other chemicals in the vitamix's power cord. I'm not an electrician so I'm just thinking out loud here with this assumption.

i just posted it to mess with ya :D i'm sure the ninja is good.

[GoldenBrain]

i just posted it to mess with ya :D i'm sure the ninja is good.

:D Oh yeah, no worries, I got it.

[Raipizo]

Got any smoothie recipes?

[GoldenBrain]

Got any smoothie recipes?

We kind of just wing it with our smoothies. The guide that came with our blender has a bunch of recipes that we plan on trying out. So far we have only tried two, broccoli and cheese soup and tomato soup but they were delicious. Their recipes can be found here. http://www.smoothieninja.com/ninja-blender-recipes

[GoldenBrain]

Here's a followup to our discussion regarding the Ninja blender. At first I was totally sold on the thing, but now…HA! It started getting weaker and weaker until the motor failed a couple of weeks ago. We took it back for a full refund and put that money towards a Vitamix CIA Professional Series. https://secure.vitamix.com/CIA-Professional-Series.aspx

Bed Bath and Beyond has them listed for $499.00 and with a 20 percent off coupon we basically only paid about $75.00 more than the Ninja. Yes, it's expensive, but if it lasts even through the 7 year warranty then I'll be happy.

Time will tell if the Vitamix holds up to our abuse, but right now I'm very impressed with this machine. It runs circles around the Ninja. It's quieter, makes a better vortex, and the smoothies come out much smoother. The almond butter also came out smoother and it will crush ice so fine it actually turns into snow. So, Raipizo, I'd say you were on the right track in looking at the Vitamix.

[SoCo KungFu]

Not directly relevant, but...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/12/17/251955878/the-case-against-multivitamins-grows-stronger

This is about specific vitamins, not necessarily diet in general. Although, a lot of people on here have mentioned taking fish oil, which may not do anything for you. And is very bad environmentally.

http://conservationmagazine.org/2012/12/the-oiliest-catch/

[GoldenBrain]

Thanks for that SoCo! These aren't new studies either. This has been a theory for quite a while now.

I wouldn't eat fish oil supplements if you paid me. In fact, with everything they are dumping into the ocean, from the Fukushima disaster to the Gulf of Mexico oil disaster and the subsequent dumping of tons of Corexit and other nasty stuff I wouldn't eat anything from the sea. That's why we now raise our own fish. Plus it's very relaxing being in the greenhouse with the water falling sound in the background.

[Syn7]

Man! Those blenders are expensive.

[Syn7]

About vitamins and other supplements... Considering the appalling diets people have in N. America, do you think many people are better off with them if they can't or won't change their diet?

[SoCo KungFu]

About vitamins and other supplements... Considering the appalling diets people have in N. America, do you think many people are better off with them if they can't or won't change their diet?

The article isn't really a knock on vitamins as a whole (although some are pretty useless). Its more a hit on multivitamins. The problem with us here in NA isn't really the lack of nutrition, its that we eat too much and too much of the stuff is bad. But most people are meeting the minimums, and most of those people are blowing out the maximums, esp in all the bad ways. There are some that are lacking in certain areas, but its pretty specific. Too specific for a multivitamin.

[Syn7]

I guess if you can't afford or be bothered to eat right, you aren't going to take the right vitamins in the right dose anyways.

I never got into the multivitamin thing. Unless you count flintstones when I was like 4.

[GoldenBrain]

About vitamins and other supplements... Considering the appalling diets people have in N. America, do you think many people are better off with them if they can't or won't change their diet?

I'll just echo what SoCo said. I don't think there's a problem with lack of nutrition either...for the most part. If there were we'd probably be seeing rickets and scurvy outbreaks all over the place. I understand that without vitamin C it doesn't take much time for scurvy to set in.

[GoldenBrain]

Man! Those blenders are expensive.

Ya, no lie there. It was hard to pull the trigger on that one and I actually have disposable income. Now, if I had your engineering talent I'd just rig up my own 200 HP model, but sadly I'd probably burn the house down so it's safer all around for us to just buy the thing. Besides, we were already over 200 bucks into that POS Ninja.

[Syn7]

Prolly easier to just buy it. I just have a rough idea as to what it costs to produce and deliver such a unit, and it's nowhere near 500 bucks.

Is it at least glass?

Can you buy and change blades easily? For me, that's always what goes first.

[GoldenBrain]

Syn,

I know that I'm getting bent over on the price, but sometimes you're the bug, sometimes you're the windshield. I'd sure like to know how much it cost to manufacture.

Unfortunately the container is not glass but it is BPA free and virtually unbreakable. :) The blades are hardened steel and are attached with all stainless steel fasteners. I'm pretty sure you can buy replacement blades but their site is undergoing maintenance so I can't verify this. I do know that it voids the warranty if you take the blades loose from the container, but that doesn't bother me. As far as the warranty is concerned I only need it for the motor.

I'll say this… The difference between using this blender and your standard Walmart blender is like going from a cheap chainsaw to a Stihl. It's just a joy to use so I really hope it lasts us a few years. It's always my intent to take care of my things but the reality is that I tend to be hard on everything so I have to buy quality products that can take my abuse. I'm that guy who can sheer lug bolts right off the wheel because I don't know my own strength (at some point I got smart and bought a torque wrench:cool:).

[Raipizo]

Didn't end up getting a vitamix, at least not yet. My girlfriend found me a blender/juicer from a store for Christmas (http://www.nesco.com/products/Kitchen-Appliances/Blenders/2-in-1-Juicer-Blender-Red-Trim/), haven't tried out the blender part but I've used the juicer with orange and citrus to make juice and it works rather well. It probably won't blend obviously anywhere as near strength as a vitamix but I don't have the money to shell out for that yet. Vitamix blenders are sold used right off their website for around $300 depending on the model you want the only used part on it is the motor and that is factory inspected and still comes with a warranty, I would go that route but that's your call. https://secure.vitamix.com/Certified-Reconditioned-Products.aspx

[GoldenBrain]

Didn't end up getting a vitamix, at least not yet. My girlfriend found me a blender/juicer from a store for Christmas (http://www.nesco.com/products/Kitchen-Appliances/Blenders/2-in-1-Juicer-Blender-Red-Trim/), haven't tried out the blender part but I've used the juicer with orange and citrus to make juice and it works rather well. It probably won't blend obviously anywhere as near strength as a vitamix but I don't have the money to shell out for that yet. Vitamix blenders are sold used right off their website for around $300 depending on the model you want the only used part on it is the motor and that is factory inspected and still comes with a warranty, I would go that route but that's your call. https://secure.vitamix.com/Certified-Reconditioned-Products.aspx

I have had good success with refurbished equipment. When I was a bit poorer I bought most of my laptops as refurbished units. I can build my own desktops but really hate to mess with laptops.

I already bought the Vitamix. We've been using it for a couple of weeks now and it's a powerhouse. It actually does make snow out of ice. I'm not talking snow cone snow where there are large granules but real powder. And, it's about half the noise of that effing Ninja. I'm sure you'll get plenty of use out of yours at least until you can justify the expense of the Vitamix.

[Syn7]

Yeah, building laptops is just not like building a desktop. But if you're interested in that stuff, you should check out Bunnie Huang's open source project. Pretty cool. Dude is brilliant.

http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=2686

Nothing wrong with refurbished gear, assuming it's done right. Building new from old is fun too. Not that I would make a blender, but I guess you could just buy a couple broken ones and work through it.

[GoldenBrain]

That that is some serious soldering circuit board building of a laptop right there. I'm not interested in doing this, however there may be a bunch of folks out there who are, so a big thanks for posting that information Syn!

I worked in IT for quite a while. I was pretty good, but it just was never something I was passionate about so after many years of that I got a little burned out. I'm pretty much a GUI guy now and demand my computers work for me rather than me for them. I'm pretty sure if I had to write a batch file or script to make something work that something would hit the trash. It's back to nature for me, with tech occasionally supporting my efforts. Especially off grid tech. With that said, I seriously think I'd be fine if the power just turned off indefinitely. I'm not sure how I'd make a smoothie though, but whatever, I'd work it out.:cool:

[Raipizo]

I have had good success with refurbished equipment. When I was a bit poorer I bought most of my laptops as refurbished units. I can build my own desktops but really hate to mess with laptops.

I already bought the Vitamix. We've been using it for a couple of weeks now and it's a powerhouse. It actually does make snow out of ice. I'm not talking snow cone snow where there are large granules but real powder. And, it's about half the noise of that effing Ninja. I'm sure you'll get plenty of use out of yours at least until you can justify the expense of the Vitamix.

Yeah laptops are a pain. Yeah I will probably get one after this takes a dump or if I get money saved. So far the juicer is working well, just need to go pick up veggies and get some recipes to try out :P

[Raipizo]

Oh I also got a yonanas which is basically an ice cream maker using frozen fruit and other stuff. Much healthier than ice cream and it comes out in basically soft serve texture. The only problem is if you can't stand the taste of bananas. I'd check it out.

[GoldenBrain]

Raipizo,

That yonanas thing looks pretty cool. I love me some bananas and add them to just about every smoothie we make. I haven't made it yet, but supposedly the Vitamix can do the same thing with ice and fruit. It makes some cool snow so I'm sure it'd make some good soft serve. I'll try it tomorrow maybe and report my findings.

I got another cool toy for christmas. My parents got us a manual wheatgrass juicer. That thing works great. We bought a bunch of wheatgrass squares from the local green market and ground the crap out of it. As per some recommendations we found online we froze the wheatgrass juice into little one oz ice cubes for adding to our smoothies. God, I'm a smoothie freak aren't I? I may need therapy.:o

[Raipizo]

Raipizo,

That yonanas thing looks pretty cool. I love me some bananas and add them to just about every smoothie we make. I haven't made it yet, but supposedly the Vitamix can do the same thing with ice and fruit. It makes some cool snow so I'm sure it'd make some good soft serve. I'll try it tomorrow maybe and report my findings.

I got another cool toy for christmas. My parents got us a manual wheatgrass juicer. That thing works great. We bought a bunch of wheatgrass squares from the local green market and ground the crap out of it. As per some recommendations we found online we froze the wheatgrass juice into little one oz ice cubes for adding to our smoothies. God, I'm a smoothie freak aren't I? I may need therapy.:o

I have a manual wheatgrass juicer, growing your own wheatgrass is easy. The juice it's self is kinda nasty but if you add it to other stuff it probably wouldn't taste bad. The seeds you can buy online in bulk.

[Raipizo]

The vitamix probably would work but what the machine isn't too expensive, it was on sale over the holiday. What do you usually add to your smoothies? Idk if I've asked you this before. Also what model vitamix did you get?

[GoldenBrain]

The vitamix probably would work but what the machine isn't too expensive, it was on sale over the holiday. What do you usually add to your smoothies? Idk if I've asked you this before. Also what model vitamix did you get?

We bought the CIA Professional Series. https://secure.vitamix.com/CIA-Professional-Series.aspx

It was listed for $499.00 at Bed Bath and Beyond and we used a 20 percent off coupon. The coupon said in fine print that it's not for use with the Vitamix but BBAB is very good about honoring any of their coupons, even expired ones.

I have found that unless you dump in too much green powder or wheatgrass juice or something else that has a potent taste, it doesn't really matter what you use. They almost always taste good. We just kind of wing it around here and use common sense as to what we want it to taste like. The amount of each ingredient is up to you but below are some combinations that we like.

1. Yogurt, coconut milk (silk brand, not straight from the coconut), bananas, blueberries, almonds, shelled hemp seed.
2. Yogurt, coconut milk, bananas, dark cherries, almonds, shelled hemp seed.
3. yogurt, coconut milk, bananas, strawberries, almonds, shelled hemp seed.
4. For all of the above you can substitute orange juice for the yogurt and coconut milk. I usually add an extra banana to this one to compensate for no yogurt. It makes it creamer.
5. Add green powder, kale, spinach, wheatgrass juice and/or carrots to any of the above in whatever combination you like to make it a green smoothie.
6. For something that is like v8 juice. Stew the following and blend, cool and enjoy...tomatoes (canned or fresh), carrots, celery, parsley, kale or spinach, pinch of salt (optional). Note: The Vitamix will heat these ingredients so you don't have to stew them but I found it tastes a little better when stewed. I think the flavors blend better somehow when on the heat a little bit longer.

Sometimes (about 2 times a week or so) for a little bit more kick I will add raw ginger root to the green smoothies. I'll also add or substitute apples, pears, mangos, pineapple and chia seed for any of the above. When you don't want a nutty flavor then just omit the almonds and hemp seed. We freeze pretty much all of our prepared smoothie fruit except for apples and pears so we don't have to add ice. For a real treat try adding some Nutella, or a dark chocolate cocoa. We have tried using smoothie recipes from several sources but they don't taste any better than what I can come up with. Lately we are making almost every smoothie a green one for the nutrients. It's only when we have company that I make them more like a dessert and leave out the green stuff. I used to add sprouts to them but we eat enough sprouts on our turkey sandwiches and other stuff that I now leave this ingredient out.

[Raipizo]

Might want to avoid heating the v8 as much as you can, heating causes the helpful enzymes to be destroyed. If there is any way to avoid it. Hmm I might take out the yogurt unless I can find some with less sugar. Any I saw have a butt load of sugar in it. Also try growing some wheatgrass and barley grass. Supposedly the barley grass is a little better in some aspects. Also the sprouted seeds don't taste too bad they taste like cucumber.

[GoldenBrain]

Might want to avoid heating the v8 as much as you can, heating causes the helpful enzymes to be destroyed. If there is any way to avoid it. Hmm I might take out the yogurt unless I can find some with less sugar. Any I saw have a butt load of sugar in it. Also try growing some wheatgrass and barley grass. Supposedly the barley grass is a little better in some aspects. Also the sprouted seeds don't taste too bad they taste like cucumber.


Good point about the v8. Maybe we'll just let the Vitamix warm it up since it doesn't get too hot.

Look for plain organic Greek yogurt. We use Greek Gods, or maybe Greek Goddess, I can't remember exactly and we just finished the last of ours yesterday. I'd check the tub to be sure for you but it's already in the garbage. It's filtered more than standard American yogurt which is why it's thicker and less grainy/lumpy. It also has more protein and about half the sugars. My wife wants to make our own yogurt so we are actually going to try that this week sometime.

[Raipizo]

Good point about the v8. Maybe we'll just let the Vitamix warm it up since it doesn't get too hot.

Look for plain organic Greek yogurt. We use Greek Gods, or maybe Greek Goddess, I can't remember exactly and we just finished the last of ours yesterday. I'd check the tub to be sure for you but it's already in the garbage. It's filtered more than standard American yogurt which is why it's thicker and less grainy/lumpy. It also has more protein and about half the sugars. My wife wants to make our own yogurt so we are actually going to try that this week sometime.

I don't like the taste of Greek yogurt, to me it tastes like sour milk. I probably wouldn't mind of it were added to the smoothie. I do make a good point don't I? :D yeah vitamix is pretty awesome how it can heat stuff. The easiest part of that recipe is that tomatoes are so easy to grow. Also try to add watercress if you can find any supposed to be really good for you and easy to grow. Problem is I cannot find any in stores near me I think it has an ande score of 1k

[GoldenBrain]

I don't like the taste of Greek yogurt, to me it tastes like sour milk. I probably wouldn't mind of it were added to the smoothie. I do make a good point don't I? :D yeah vitamix is pretty awesome how it can heat stuff. The easiest part of that recipe is that tomatoes are so easy to grow. Also try to add watercress if you can find any supposed to be really good for you and easy to grow. Problem is I cannot find any in stores near me I think it has an ande score of 1k


Yeah, I'll give you that. Sure, I've thought about that Vitamix for a while, but it was probably our conversation that kept on my mind, so many thanks to you sir!

It's too bad about the greek yogurt, but I think you will find that you can't taste it at all in a smoothie. Yogurt just makes it smoother and creamier. Bananas pretty much do the same but you should probably think of something with calcium to add like perhaps coconut milk. Just a thought.

Growing watercress is a great idea. Good vitamin C content also. We have a budding aquaponic system. Right now we filter all the water through kale and spinach, however we have talked about watercress a lot so it is definitely going to be added to the mix. I have an buddy who studied aquaponics at the university of the virgin islands so he is my guru. We spoke recently and I found that if you add limestone and prawns or freshwater lobster to the system it creates a little more potent mix of fertilizer, so now I should be able to grow the more bulky fleshy fruits and vegetables with our system. Soon I'm going to add tomatoes, beans, peas, broccoli and carrots just to see if they will grow as well as what we grow from soil. Happy happy happy!!!

[Syn7]

Good point about the v8. Maybe we'll just let the Vitamix warm it up since it doesn't get too hot.

Look for plain organic Greek yogurt. We use Greek Gods, or maybe Greek Goddess, I can't remember exactly and we just finished the last of ours yesterday. I'd check the tub to be sure for you but it's already in the garbage. It's filtered more than standard American yogurt which is why it's thicker and less grainy/lumpy. It also has more protein and about half the sugars. My wife wants to make our own yogurt so we are actually going to try that this week sometime.


Man, making yogurt is such an art. I'm so glad there are people around me who make it and are willing to sell some. So so good. Good luck with that. You ever churned butter? So many things I would like to try doing when I find the time.

Raipizo:
Greek yogurt can taste any way you want it to taste. I don't like it much by itself either, but with the right ingredients, it can be so so good. Give it a try with some berries or whatever. Worst case scenario, you're out a few dollars. It's better for smoothies than your typical yoplait or whatever. But you aren't the first person I have heard say that they don't like it. It's mos def different than what we all grew up on.

[GoldenBrain]

Man, making yogurt is such an art. I'm so glad there are people around me who make it and are willing to sell some. So so good. Good luck with that. You ever churned butter? So many things I would like to try doing when I find the time.

Raipizo:
Greek yogurt can taste any way you want it to taste. I don't like it much by itself either, but with the right ingredients, it can be so so good. Give it a try with some berries or whatever. Worst case scenario, you're out a few dollars. It's better for smoothies than your typical yoplait or whatever. But you aren't the first person I have heard say that they don't like it. It's mos def different than what we all grew up on.

True that, all that! My wife is so excited about trying the yogurt thing. I have to give you some credit for this. You mentioned that you buy home made yogurt and when I was reading that post my wife was right next to me. I told her what I was reading and you could see the light bulb turn on. From that moment it's been on her mind. She almost made it tonight but she was just exhausted from a long day, long hike, exercise and a light sparring match with me, so tomorrow is the yogurt day. I'll let you know how it goes.

[mawali]

The Greek yogurt thing is so manufactured that I am shocked so may people believe what they do. Just looking at the manufacturer (Dannon and Yoplait) it is what it is. Too sweet, too many preservatives, etc and for it to be so popular, it appears that it has to be made as it is. Just like cranbeery juice, it is so diluted based on the manufacturer,.....Better yet, can anyone recommend cranberry juice that is actually 80-90% actual juice of the cranberry as opposed to colouring, sugar, fructose, etc. I await with held breath!

[GoldenBrain]

The Greek yogurt thing is so manufactured that I am shocked so may people believe what they do. Just looking at the manufacturer (Dannon and Yoplait) it is what it is. Too sweet, too many preservatives, etc and for it to be so popular, it appears that it has to be made as it is. Just like cranbeery juice, it is so diluted based on the manufacturer,.....Better yet, can anyone recommend cranberry juice that is actually 80-90% actual juice of the cranberry as opposed to colouring, sugar, fructose, etc. I await with held breath!

I mostly agree with you here. I'll just add that the only difference between Greek yogurt and the others is more filtering. To my understanding the extra filtering removes more of the whey and makes it less grainy and lumpy but at the same time thicker and with more protein. Buy locally made if you can, but there are a few really good commercial brands out there if you can't find the homemade stuff.

I can recommend a cranberry juice that is 100 percent actual juice, but you'd have to stop by our house to try it. ;) Cranberries are sometimes expensive so we often blend them with grapes. We really don't make it that often but it sure is good when we do, and it's way better than store-bought.

[Raipizo]

You could probably even use your fish emulsion water for your plants but I'm sure you have. You should also look into growing mushrooms, an organic gardener around here said he took an old hardwood log and planted the spores in his woods and several years later he had growth, and he sells them to local restaurants. Next time you make those smoothies can you try to measure things out a bit. Might go out this weekend and pick up supplies but I don't wanna waste stuff :P. Only thing that sucks about this cold weather up here is I can't grow crap in the winter but seriously man wheatgrass is so simple don't waste time on buying flats of them. You can easily grow them inside by a window. I got organic seeds for around $5 a lb I believe. I got several pounds online and the seeds stay good for a long time.

[Raipizo]

I'll try to find some of that green powder at the health food store all else fails amazon.

[GoldenBrain]

You could probably even use your fish emulsion water for your plants but I'm sure you have. You should also look into growing mushrooms, an organic gardener around here said he took an old hardwood log and planted the spores in his woods and several years later he had growth, and he sells them to local restaurants. Next time you make those smoothies can you try to measure things out a bit. Might go out this weekend and pick up supplies but I don't wanna waste stuff :P. Only thing that sucks about this cold weather up here is I can't grow crap in the winter but seriously man wheatgrass is so simple don't waste time on buying flats of them. You can easily grow them inside by a window. I got organic seeds for around $5 a lb I believe. I got several pounds online and the seeds stay good for a long time.


With an aquaponic system the water is circulated from the fish through the plants and back to the fish so it is essentially fish poo emulsion. If we add other fertilizers to the system it could imbalance the pH which is dialed in right now. Things are growing well, especially our fish.

We don't technically want to farm mushrooms, but we do like to gather them from our little forest. I was gifted 4 hazel trees root stock infused with truffles so hopefully we'll see something productive from them. I've never eaten a truffle so I'm looking forward do digging the first one up.

We also planted a fun mushroom. It glows in the dark, but it has to be a moonless night and pitch black. Sometimes the stars here in the country are so vivid and bright that on really clear night you can't see them glow, but occasionally when taking night walks on our trails there are places lit up with the glowing shrooms. Here's a link to them… http://www.amazon.com/mushroom-Growing-Habitat-Terrariums-Vivariums/dp/B0070C8AIU There are several types so we just bought a bunch of different ones and spread the spoors on large rotting logs along the trails. They should proliferate quite nicely. My hope was that it would be a night light along the trails but the glowing is pretty dim. Cool, but dim.

I don't know if this helps, but we use a green powder named Raw Organic Green Superfood, made by Garden of Life. The tub has lasted us months, but now that our leafy greens are going strong we shouldn't need to buy this in the future.

[Raipizo]

With an aquaponic system the water is circulated from the fish through the plants and back to the fish so it is essentially fish poo emulsion. If we add other fertilizers to the system it could imbalance the pH which is dialed in right now. Things are growing well, especially our fish.

We don't technically want to farm mushrooms, but we do like to gather them from our little forest. I was gifted 4 hazel trees root stock infused with truffles so hopefully we'll see something productive from them. I've never eaten a truffle so I'm looking forward do digging the first one up.

We also planted a fun mushroom. It glows in the dark, but it has to be a moonless night and pitch black. Sometimes the stars here in the country are so vivid and bright that on really clear night you can't see them glow, but occasionally when taking night walks on our trails there are places lit up with the glowing shrooms. Here's a link to them… http://www.amazon.com/mushroom-Growing-Habitat-Terrariums-Vivariums/dp/B0070C8AIU There are several types so we just bought a bunch of different ones and spread the spoors on large rotting logs along the trails. They should proliferate quite nicely. My hope was that it would be a night light along the trails but the glowing is pretty dim. Cool, but dim.

I don't know if this helps, but we use a green powder named Raw Organic Green Superfood, made by Garden of Life. The tub has lasted us months, but now that our leafy greens are going strong we shouldn't need to buy this in the future.

You must use less than one of their scoopers then? I might add it in along with my greens just because. I'll probably throw in my protein powder if it's before a workout also. That green powder reminds of of these candy bar like things that have that kind of powder in them. They taste pretty good but expensive, don't even know the name of them. Do you only grow eating fish? I have blackberry and a few blueberry bushes hopefully they produce quite a bit this summer. I wanted to pick up goji bushes from the garden store but I don't think I would have room unless I grew it in a pot.

[GoldenBrain]

You must use less than one of their scoopers then? I might add it in along with my greens just because. I'll probably throw in my protein powder if it's before a workout also. That green powder reminds of of these candy bar like things that have that kind of powder in them. They taste pretty good but expensive, don't even know the name of them. Do you only grow eating fish? I have blackberry and a few blueberry bushes hopefully they produce quite a bit this summer. I wanted to pick up goji bushes from the garden store but I don't think I would have room unless I grew it in a pot.

Yes, we only use about 1/3 of the amount they suggest. It's supposed to be one scoop per serving. That's because we add other greens most of the time so at this point we are just trying to use up the remaining green powder.

Very cool that you have blackberry and blueberry bushes. Those will pay dividends for years and years. I have goji berry seeds but they need to be cold stratified so I haven't planted them yet. I planted huckleberry bushes last year. It's just like a blueberry but doesn't require as much water and it can handle the TX heat a little better. Man, talking about blueberries reminded me of an amazing hiking trail I used to take into the Linville Gorge in NC. It is lined like a hedge on both sides for about 2 miles with blue berry bushes. If you hike that one during the blueberry season it is just incredible. Beware of the bears though! :eek:

At the moment we only grow eating fish. Mozambique tilapia, channel cat and some hybrid striped bass. We feed the excess tilapia fry to the cats and bass and grow spirulina algae and duckweed to feed the tilapia. Other than the excess fry, we feed the bass and cats with palletized fish food. If I needed to I could do away with the bass and cats and keep a mostly free $$$ closed system by just using the tilapia and the plants to feed them, but for now we don't mind buying the extra fish food. A friend of ours who raises catfish in a farm pond feeds his purina dog chow so I may go that route one day since it's a little bit cheaper.

[Raipizo]

That had to get you a lot of berries :p ours are only a few years old so we get maybe a few bowls full a year. Too bad you can't eat that spirulina supposed to be good for you. Do you make your own honey? With everything else you do it wouldn't surprise me.

[GoldenBrain]

That had to get you a lot of berries :p ours are only a few years old so we get maybe a few bowls full a year. Too bad you can't eat that spirulina supposed to be good for you. Do you make your own honey? With everything else you do it wouldn't surprise me.


I never collected those berries but we ate the sh!t out of them on the way up the mountain. After I found that trail in about 2005 I made it a point to go back there each year during berry season. My last hike there was in 2012 just before we made our pilgrimage to TX. In about 3 to 5 years you'll have so many berries off those bushes you'll need to buy another freezer to store them in. I'd suggest making some jam and dehydrate or freeze dry what you can't store. Or, just give them away for some good karma points.

Yeah, we have a lot going, but with me being technically retired I do have a lot of time to play farmer. You can eat duck weed and spirulina. We don't eat it, but that's only because we don't have to. Both supposedly have all the protein, vitamins, aminos and whatever other nutrients we need to stay healthy. All you need to grow it is a starting culture, water that is circulated with CO2, nutrients (fertilizer) and sunlight. We run some of the water from our fish tanks through the duckweed and spirulina tanks which gives it nutrients, CO2 and circulation. To feed the tilapia I just take a few large scoops of the stuff and dump in their tanks. Fish food flakes are mostly spirulina so I'm basically doing what aquarium enthusiasts do to feed their fish. I've eaten small scoops of each and they taste like sprouts with a bit of a grassy flavor. It's not bad, but I prefer our leafy greens, however if I were starving I could definitely live off this stuff.

Honey is on our farms bucket list. We would have added a few hives already but I need to clear a few projects off my to do list first. We still have to build the rest of our house addition, the walipini and another storage/shop building to go along with the saw mill. Once I get more free and we are just coasting along in maintenance mode rather than building mode we will definitely be adding some hives. There are some local bee keepers that I buy honey from who say they will get me started. They would even take care of them and harvest the honey but what fun would that be. I would like to get my hands dirty (sticky :D) too so we'll just wait until later this year or maybe early next year. Fortunately we have plenty of insects including wild bees to pollinate our crops so no worries there. One really awesome thing about honey is it doesn't spoil.

Oh, and my wife made our first batch of yogurt tonight. It looks great. It's still setting up in the bowel so I'm not exactly sure how it'll taste :eek: but I have high hopes. It was super easy to make. All she did was mix 4 heaping tablespoon size scoops of plain Greek yogurt that we already buy (this is needed to start the culture in the new batch), mixed with a about a half a cup of whole milk. She set this bowel to the side. Then she boiled the rest of the milk (1 gallon) in a pan. Once that was set aside and cooled she added the yogurt/milk mix to it and stirred it up. After that, it's supposed to sit for 8 hours before putting it in the fridge. Once it cools and sets up in the fridge it's good to go.

[Raipizo]

Hmm that would be cool to try to grow. You can buy queens online I think and they come with soldiers I believe. I don't think they're hard to manage really. I need to get hooked up with a local grower, I'm getting mine from walmart raw. But that's still like $4 for 16 oz I think.

[GoldenBrain]

Hmm that would be cool to try to grow. You can buy queens online I think and they come with soldiers I believe. I don't think they're hard to manage really. I need to get hooked up with a local grower, I'm getting mine from walmart raw. But that's still like $4 for 16 oz I think.

It's a much better deal to buy from a local bee keeper if possible. I'm not sure about your area, but where there are farms there are usually bee keepers. If you have a farmers market nearby then that'd be the first place to look. That's how we networked with several of our farmer and bee keeper friends.

I was curious as to what you can buy online so the first page that came up was this one… http://www.honeybeesonline.com It looks like they have everything you need. I'm sure there are others so don't just go there. I'd hate it if you got bent over on the price or something just because I was lazy and only gave you one link. You don't strike me as the type who'll walk into this thing blind though. If you do this then please keep me posted.

[Raipizo]

It's a much better deal to buy from a local bee keeper if possible. I'm not sure about your area, but where there are farms there are usually bee keepers. If you have a farmers market nearby then that'd be the first place to look. That's how we networked with several of our farmer and bee keeper friends.

I was curious as to what you can buy online so the first page that came up was this one… http://www.honeybeesonline.com It looks like they have everything you need. I'm sure there are others so don't just go there. I'd hate it if you got bent over on the price or something just because I was lazy and only gave you one link. You don't strike me as the type who'll walk into this thing blind though. If you do this then please keep me posted.

There are several bee keepers around, some of which also do maple syrup but I don't use that enough to waste my money on. There are several bee keepers a couple of towns over who probably harvest it raw because it's just easier than buying machinery, just letting it drip off over night or something. My girlfriend knows someone that does it but they live at least a half hour away. Probably better off finding another source they might even sell by the gallon, I go through honey fast adding it to my tea. I might check out growing spirulina outside or in my spare room if I can. I have an old aquarium tank and I can just buy the parts I need for way cheaper than a kit. Kits are about $150 for what I'd need.

[GoldenBrain]

I might check out growing spirulina outside or in my spare room if I can. I have an old aquarium tank and I can just buy the parts I need for way cheaper than a kit. Kits are about $150 for what I'd need.

Sounds groovy my friend. If you are the prepper type then having a starter tank of spirluna could serve you well in a food shortage. It can be expanded into a very large supply in no time at all. Kiddie pools are what I grow mine in.

[Raipizo]

Sounds groovy my friend. If you are the prepper type then having a starter tank of spirluna could serve you well in a food shortage. It can be expanded into a very large supply in no time at all. Kiddie pools are what I grow mine in.

Totally. I can see the coolness of prepping but practicality is pretty low ya know? What do you use as food for that huge setup ? With that and the wild rabbits around here I'm set! :D

[Syn7]

Yeah, we have a lot going, but with me being technically retired I do have a lot of time to play farmer.

I'm jealous!

[Raipizo]

I like how this has become so many different topics of raw eating, natural foods etc :p Definately topics I like to enjoy and delve deeper in. The only problem I have is I don't have much space at all. I can't even find a place to set up my wheatgrass lately. Do you use any protein powders GB? I found a really good brand I recommend called Only Protein, sold on amazon. It runs a bit more but is organic, gmo free etc.mi would rather spend a bit more and get quality product that isn't filled with heavy metals and hormones. It tastes pretty well also. A bit sweet but I basically add it to water and it takes the sweetness out.

[Raipizo]

I don't think I would do bee keeping yet, I might later on in time that way I know exactly what's going in it etc. I have a small garden but need to set up a green house or some sort of cover for the winter months. Get's too cold up here for basically any edible plants but even down south feels the bitter cold the north has always dealt with.

[GoldenBrain]

Totally. I can see the coolness of prepping but practicality is pretty low ya know? What do you use as food for that huge setup ? With that and the wild rabbits around here I'm set! :D

Yeah, some of that prepping stuff is just not practical for the average person. It's better to change our lifestyles so we are producers instead of just consumers. That way we always have our own food. That's how they did it in the old days. My great great great grandparents didn't have an organic supermarket to shop at.


What do you use as food for that huge setup ?

I'm not sure I completely understand the question. Do you mean for our family to eat or what we feed the fish and plants and stuff? For us, we raise fish, chickens and grow all the normal produce one would expect to see in a large garden. I am a big fan of overkill so our first garden was something like 70' X 50' with 9 raised beds. Now we use that space mainly for melons, squash, corn, artichoke and other big stuff that we don't want in the greenhouse. We also have 3 pecan trees, 2 apples, 2 peach, 1 nectarine, 2 plums and dozens and dozens of wild Chickasaw plums. Also a few wild persimmons trees and many other wild edibles like stinging nettle. Oh, and our huckleberry bushes. This year I will be adding, at least one fig, pomegranate, almond, hazelnut and apricot. Along with our various types of veggies we keep some tropicals in the greenhouse like bananas and pineapple. It takes forever to grow the pineapple and they only fruit once. We have yet to harvest one so this will probably just be store bought except for a few specimens to look at. The bananas are coming along but haven't started fruiting yet either. I have dedicated a big space to the bananas so when they mature it will be perpetual and should yield more all that we need. You know the best thing about our setup next to being able to feed ourselves is how much extra we have to give away to friends and family. It is very rewarding and generates tons of goodwill. We have a next door neighbor that has a large family and with this tough economy they are hurting a little bit so we give them a lot of our extras. The dad is a big burly Texan and he almost cries every time I stop by.

You can tell I hate talking about this stuff. :rolleyes::D

[GoldenBrain]

I'm jealous!

Sorry homie.;) When I write these posts I always have in the back of my mind a thought that I'm bragging or something. Without giving away too much of my information/identity I just want to get across to others that almost anything is possible if we work hard enough for it. Somewhere buried deep in my posts I also mention that I come from very meager beginnings so I have seen both worlds and feel I deserve to tell my story a little bit. Of course I know your comment is a bit tongue and cheek because I don't think you are struggling, but I hear ya.

[GoldenBrain]

I like how this has become so many different topics of raw eating, natural foods etc :p Definately topics I like to enjoy and delve deeper in. The only problem I have is I don't have much space at all. I can't even find a place to set up my wheatgrass lately. Do you use any protein powders GB? I found a really good brand I recommend called Only Protein, sold on amazon. It runs a bit more but is organic, gmo free etc.mi would rather spend a bit more and get quality product that isn't filled with heavy metals and hormones. It tastes pretty well also. A bit sweet but I basically add it to water and it takes the sweetness out.

It is funny that I started the thread about antibiotics and now we are talking gardening. Maybe it should be retitled general chit chat. :D Ah well, I'm not a big stickler about people staying on topic in my threads. I frequent these forums for entertainment and conversation so as long as I'm not being trolled then any subject is fair game.

We don't use any protein powder. We get more than enough protein in our diets so there just isn't a need for that.

Okay, here's a link that Syn posted a while back in one of our other off topic conversations… http://our.windowfarms.org I think it's just awesome! I don't have a space problem, but if I did I'd go this route for sure. I'd set it up to be used with a small aquaponics system so all you would need besides the bottles are three tanks. One small breeder tank for the tilapia, one larger one, hopefully up to 250 gal because the larger volume of water makes it easier to adjust the pH, and a spirulina tank. The breeder and spirulina tanks could be something like 20 gallons or so, or you could omit that and just feed the fish food pellets. Anyway, just an idea for you.



Get's too cold up here for basically any edible plants but even down south feels the bitter cold the north has always dealt with.

It was 15 degrees two mornings ago and it's been under freezing overnight for over a week now. This is TX so that is a little colder than normal. If we didn't have a greenhouse, not only would our fish be dead but also our produce which is growing quite nicely over the winter. BTW, this is our first winter in the greenhouse so over winter growing is something new to us. There's just something awesome about chillin in the greenhouse listening to the water bubble, and the fish jumping around while it's freezing outside.

[Raipizo]

I guess I was pretty vague, I was meaning plant food for the spirulina. The expensive kits online sell pre made food for it but it doesn't say what is in it, how kind of them. Sure wish it was hot enough to be able to grow tropical stuff up here :( pomegranates are so awesome but the cheapest they go for is around 50 cents a piece.

[Raipizo]

Yeah it's been at least 10 below for the past few days but heating up now. But still, you lucky Texan you.

[GoldenBrain]

I guess I was pretty vague, I was meaning plant food for the spirulina. The expensive kits online sell pre made food for it but it doesn't say what is in it, how kind of them. Sure wish it was hot enough to be able to grow tropical stuff up here :( pomegranates are so awesome but the cheapest they go for is around 50 cents a piece.

Okay, cool. We don't add anything else but the fish poo waste water to the spirulina and duckweed and they grow like crazy.

Growing pomegranates, artichokes or kiwis could make a person rich. I forgot to mention kiwis in my list of wants. Artichokes are really pretty flowers. Before I started growing them I had no idea I was basically just eating a flower.

10 below is no joke! You definitely need a greenhouse. Here's a trick to remember for when you do build one. Line the edges with mulch, about a foot wide and foot tall. The heat from the composting mulch is usually enough to keep everything nice and warm. We have to heat the water for our fish to stay healthy so for us in our climate that's enough to heat the rest of the greenhouse.

[Raipizo]

Okay, cool. We don't add anything else but the fish poo waste water to the spirulina and duckweed and they grow like crazy.

Growing pomegranates, artichokes or kiwis could make a person rich. I forgot to mention kiwis in my list of wants. Artichokes are really pretty flowers. Before I started growing them I had no idea I was basically just eating a flower.

10 below is no joke! You definitely need a greenhouse. Here's a trick to remember for when you do build one. Line the edges with mulch, about a foot wide and foot tall. The heat from the composting mulch is usually enough to keep everything nice and warm. We have to heat the water for our fish to stay healthy so for us in our climate that's enough to heat the rest of the greenhouse.

Growing organic anything will make you rich, that organic farmer by me tells me he sells tomatoes to retailers and restaurants for like $5 a lb. Talk about mark up, but they're willing to pay it.

[Raipizo]

Also you have to have salted water, how would you go about measuring that? I.e how much salt to add to make it just right. Or do you gather sea water or something like that?

[GoldenBrain]

Also you have to have salted water, how would you go about measuring that? I.e how much salt to add to make it just right. Or do you gather sea water or something like that?

Do you mean for the tilapia? They are a freshwater fish so we don't add salt to anything.

They don't survive cold very well though. If the temp drops below 50 they are floaters. Texas dumps tilapia into the lakes and streams for weed and algae control. At some point in the year when it gets too cold they die which is the reason Texas even allows this technically invasive species to be introduced. Although it is reported that the they have adapted to this climate so in South Texas they live on through the winter. My catfish pond buddy also uses them to help control his algae. He dumps the fingerlings in the pond early in the year after the last frost. When it gets too cold around winter time they start doing circles and acting strangely which is the sign that he needs to break out the fishing net. All he does is wait for them to float to the surface which apparently happens in mass and then he just scoops them up while they are fresh, filets them and loads up a freezer.

[Raipizo]

For the spirilia, had no idea tilapia was fresh water. That is a pretty smart idea he thought of there. They're babies in cold weather 50 isn't even that cold. I like fish a lot grilled tuna is really good but tuna are pretty huge you probably couldn't farm them.

[GoldenBrain]

For the spirilia, had no idea tilapia was fresh water. That is a pretty smart idea he thought of there. They're babies in cold weather 50 isn't even that cold. I like fish a lot grilled tuna is really good but tuna are pretty huge you probably couldn't farm them.

Spirulina and duckweed grow fine in fresh water.

I love grilled tuna. I think you'd have to mimic tuna's environment exactly to get them to grow big though. I understand they have to swim fast in the open ocean and therefore don't do well in captivity. If you could pull off a tuna farm then you could make some serious money. I think it'd be more work than it's worth.

You can also get rich growing tilapia if you can go big enough. Starting with fingerlings, tilapia are ready to harvest in 8 months to 1 year. They will grow to about 2 lbs. in that amount of time. They sell for about 2 to 7 dollars a pound. If you have sufficient oxygen and aeration you can grow about 1 fish per gallon of water. I grow much less but I'm not a commercial farmer. So, if you have a 10,000 gallon tank you could grow almost 10,000 fish which is a something like 20,000.00 to 70,000.00 dollars per 8 months or so. Dig a few 10,000 gallon tanks and you could do very well. If you made it an aquaponic system where you grow plants with the free fish poo water fertilizer then you can also sell the produce. For instance, say you want to just grow lettuce because it's easy. A 2,000 sq ft greenhouse full of lettuce pallets floating on the water can make you about 2,000 dollars a week with only about 2 hours a day of work on a perpetual harvest. You harvest one or more foam pallets of lettuce a day, and replant those pallets with lettuce plugs that you would grow in another area, and just keep rotating that indefinitely. A few times a week you may need to put in more hours for other maintenance but you get the idea. That's just off the top of my head so don't pin me down on the numbers here.

The beauty of this type of farming is free fertilizer, and if you grow spirulina and duckweed it's also free fish food. Basically free, other than labor and some electricity. Also, you would want to get a breeding program started so you don't have to buy the fingerlings. If you have a good source of water like a well or spring or river and some solar or wind generators then you're totally off grid and completely self sufficient. If your state allows it, mine doesn't, you can buy the super hybrid tilapia that is considered invasive and illegal in most states, breed that with the Mozambique and you get all female fish so there is no breeding happening in the tanks that you harvest from. You would need to keep about 5 mozambique females and one of the super hybrids in a smaller tank and just let them breed like crazy. Or, maybe that's the other way around…I forget. They are cool to watch breed since they keep their young in their mouths. When they get old enough then scoop the fingerlings up and dump them into one of the tanks that you already harvested and wait another 8 months. I really wish I could breed them this way but instead I just let the Mozambique's do what they want and I dump the extra fry in the predator fish tanks which are the bass and catfish. This method is working so far and keeps our tilapia population under control. I have some screens at the bottom of the stripped bass and catfish tanks so when they drop eggs all I have to do is scoop them up before any little fry hatch and that keeps those tanks under control.

[SoCo KungFu]

For the spirilia, had no idea tilapia was fresh water. That is a pretty smart idea he thought of there. They're babies in cold weather 50 isn't even that cold. I like fish a lot grilled tuna is really good but tuna are pretty huge you probably couldn't farm them.

Tuna are large, highly predatory, epipelagic marine hunters. I'd say not.

At least, not unless you have a set up at least as good as this

http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2013/06/06/worlds-first-on-land-bluefin-tuna-farm-to-open/

Edit: It should be noted this isn't for harvest. This is simply to artificially establish a stock, they still have to released to grow for later catch. And this type of aquaculture isn't always the most successful for a variety of reasons.

[Raipizo]

Hm strange I hear otherwise but anyway that's a good setup. No mercury in your fish either I bet that makes you happy. Not sure hoe tilapia rates in omega acids compared to salmon etc. We have a bunch of small fish up here. Trout, Pike and Perch. I don't go fishing so the only fish I have is what we buy sadly we don't have fish very often.

[GoldenBrain]

Not sure hoe tilapia rates in omega acids compared to salmon etc.

This question about omega fatty acids got me thinking so I did some research. It appears that tilapia is not the best source for balanced omega's, and may actually be among the worst with a ratio of 11 omega6 to 1 omega3. Apparently to much omega6 is bad and causes cellular inflammation which is not good for the heart and arteries. On the other hand, omega3 is good for us and reduces inflammation. So, basically we need more omega3 than omega6. Omega3 is found in leafy greens and other veggies, so at least we are helping that balance by getting plenty of those foods in our diets. While researching this I found that the hemp seed we eat has just about the best ratio of omega3 to omega6 so that's good.

Salmon is at the top of the list for omega3. Right next to salmon is rainbow and lake trout. Our stripped bass and catfish are a little further down the list but still have a good ratio so I'll keep them. I may just replace our tilapia with trout though, and I have an extra 300 gallon tank so maybe we'll also add some salmon.

[Syn7]

So these are just averages across the whole genus? I wonder what the diff between pacific and atlantic salmon is. Or chinook vs. coho, etc etc.

Dunno about the health part, but atlantic salmon tastes like **** to me. Of course I have a massive bias having grown up on the west coast fishing my whole life. I never really liked pinks very much, but I'll even take them over the atlantic.

[GoldenBrain]

So these are just averages across the whole genus? I wonder what the diff between pacific and atlantic salmon is. Or chinook vs. coho, etc etc.

Dunno about the health part, but atlantic salmon tastes like **** to me. Of course I have a massive bias having grown up on the west coast fishing my whole life. I never really liked pinks very much, but I'll even take them over the atlantic.


I agree with you about the west coast salmon. I do like the pink farm raised stock, but that stuff is expensive from the local grocery so we don't eat it very often. But, when we do we get a big ol slab and grill it up right!

Here is the first article I ran across that talks about the tilapia. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080708092228.htm It's the same information across the net so I'm hoping it's at least been peer reviewed. I've been too busy today to do any more research than the cursory amount I did last night. I believe they studied wild and farm raised so I'm guessing the answer to your question is yes.

When I first started planning the fish operation here I really wanted to have trout in there so I'm actually excited about changing things up a little bit. Most fish food flakes are spirulina algae based so we'll keep that going and just expand our worm beds to a level that can also feed the fish. We can also let fruit and veggies rot in buckets which I've done accidentally. When that happens the black flies lay eggs and there will be thousands of maggots within only a few days so I'm thinking that would also make some pretty good fish food. I like the idea of being self sustaining so the quicker I can move away from store bought fish food the better. My work in progress progresses...

[Raipizo]

Cool I wonder if trout are bigger? Good thing I brought it up then haha

[Raipizo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzPQ1tDkDJo&feature=c4-overview&list=UU73VygG5fx7mK2-igGoh8dw

Thought you could set up a few of these, there are several ways to make them and they might bring down your electricity bill for heating your green house, or even if you wanted to put a few in seperate rooms of your home.

[GoldenBrain]

Pretty darn cool Raipizo. Thanks for posting that!

[Raipizo]

Pretty darn cool Raipizo. Thanks for posting that!

No problem buddy ol' pal.

[Raipizo]

This thread is slowly dying. How warm is it in Texas now GB?

[GoldenBrain]

This thread is slowly dying. How warm is it in Texas now GB?

It's been really nice during the day, as long as the sun is shining. Somewhere in the 60's. It's been in the 30's at night. God bless Texas!!! :D

Here's a photo of what I worked on today. Unfortunately I didn't take a before shot, but if you look around at the other trees you'll get an idea of what I cleared. I felled and limbed about thirty trees to create this clearing. We are building a saw mill so this is the space it will be set up in. The photo is a panoramic and therefore the scale looks a bit off, but you could actually build a 2500 sq ft house in this clearing and still have a nice yard left over. Only a few more days and we will be milling wood stuffs. :D If I haven't said it before I'll say it now…I love the country life!!!

8023


I'd ask how your temperature is but I'm pretty sure all I'd hear is chattering teeth. ;) Be well and stay warm my friend!

[Raipizo]

It's been really nice during the day, as long as the sun is shining. Somewhere in the 60's. It's been in the 30's at night. God bless Texas!!! :D

Here's a photo of what I worked on today. Unfortunately I didn't take a before shot, but if you look around at the other trees you'll get an idea of what I cleared. I felled and limbed about thirty trees to create this clearing. We are building a saw mill so this is the space it will be set up in. The photo is a panoramic and therefore the scale looks a bit off, but you could actually build a 2500 sq ft house in this clearing and still have a nice yard left over. Only a few more days and we be milling wood stuffs. :D If I haven't said it before I'll say it now…I love the country life!!!

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I'd ask how your temperature is but I'm pretty sure all I'd hear is chattering teeth. ;)

You're so cheeky. Uhh it's in the 30's higher 30's but it feels like it's a heat wave lol. A sawmill? Don't cut too many of those nice trees down :p

[GoldenBrain]

You're so cheeky. Uhh it's in the 30's higher 30's but it feels like it's a heat wave lol. A sawmill? Don't cut too many of those nice trees down :p

Hahaha! cheeky :D I love the brits for inventing this uber awesome word.

No worries, we won't cut too many down. These are eastern red cedar, not the old growth that is to the left from the perspective of that photo. You can see they are just packed in there so part of this process is to thin out the trees so they won't just die and lie down against each other. I collected over 20 really nice 12" and up sized cedars from this space which we will mill into lumber for use in our building projects, so it will go to a good cause. After this clearing I am pretty much done except for further thinning and limbing up trees so we can see through and walk under them. Man, when I get finished with this property it'll look like a park with hundreds and hundreds of beautiful specimens. Some of our hickory and oaks take about 3-4 people holding hands to wrap around so unless they are leaning too far I wouldn't dare cut them down. We also have sycamore, dogwood, cotton wood, elm and a few others. The cedar in the picture is aromatic so just imagine what a 1 acre cedar closet would smell like. I really do love life, trees, everything that breaths and otherwise, so what I'm doing will preserve this amazing place for generations.

OOooooh, I just received an order of American Ginseng. The seeds are stratified so I can plant them anytime. I live on the western edge of where it's possible to grow this, other than Oregon, and Washington state, so we are really excited to get this stuff propagated in the woods. I have a few north facing hills that will be perfect. If it grows well it would make a nice payday for our son in about 20 years. Shhhhh, don't tell anybody...:p;):D

[Raipizo]

Hahaha! cheeky :D I love the brits for inventing this uber awesome word.

No worries, we won't cut too many down. These are eastern red cedar, not the old growth that is to the left from the perspective of that photo. You can see they are just packed in there so part of this process is to thin out the trees so they won't just die and lie down against each other. I collected over 20 really nice 12" and up sized cedars from this space which we will mill into lumber for use in our building projects, so it will go to a good cause. After this clearing I am pretty much done except for further thinning and limbing up trees so we can see through and walk under them. Man, when I get finished with this property it'll look like a park with hundreds and hundreds of beautiful specimens. Some of our hickory and oaks take about 3-4 people holding hands to wrap around so unless they are leaning too far I wouldn't dare cut them down. We also have sycamore, dogwood, cotton wood, elm and a few others. The cedar in the picture is aromatic so just imagine what a 1 acre cedar closet would smell like. I really do love life, trees, everything that breaths and otherwise, so what I'm doing will preserve this amazing place for generations.

OOooooh, I just received an order of American Ginseng. The seeds are stratified so I can plant them anytime. I live on the western edge of where it's possible to grow this, other than Oregon, and Washington state, so we are really excited to get this stuff propagated in the woods. I have a few north facing hills that will be perfect. If it grows well it would make a nice payday for our son in about 20 years. Shhhhh, don't tell anybody...:p;):D

Funny thing you mention ginseng, my grand parents have some wild ginseng in their woods. I didn't want to dig it up because it was kinda small and in didn't have a shovel with me. They grow well in forest shade areas.

[GoldenBrain]

Funny thing you mention ginseng, my grand parents have some wild ginseng in their woods. I didn't want to dig it up because it was kinda small and in didn't have a shovel with me. They grow well in forest shade areas.

That ginseng is worth about 1000 bucks a pound and there is no doubt that the price will only increase in the future. If you pick it make sure it's closer to the fall so you can spread it's seed cluster. It also needs to be at least 10 years old before harvesting the root. You can harvest the leaves around fall when they drop off. Make tea with the leaves or sell them to the organic food stores. At that time of year you should see red berries which are the seed clusters. Carefully dig up the root, replant the seed about 1 inch under the dirt and cover with 2 inches of forest duff (leaves and stuff) and reap the financial rewards. Just in case you were interested that is. :D It's a renewable resource, so as long as you replant and don't take too much of what's there everything should be okay. 10,000 of those plants could retire you financially.

[Raipizo]

That ginseng is worth about 1000 bucks a pound and there is no doubt that the price will only increase in the future. If you pick it make sure it's closer to the fall so you can spread it's seed cluster. It also needs to be at least 10 years old before harvesting the root. You can harvest the leaves around fall when they drop off. Make tea with the leaves or sell them to the organic food stores. At that time of year you should see red berries which are the seed clusters. Carefully dig up the root, replant the seed about 1 inch under the dirt and cover with 2 inches of forest duff (leaves and stuff) and reap the financial rewards. Just in case you were interested that is. :D It's a renewable resource, so as long as you replant and don't take too much of what's there everything should be okay. 10,000 of those plants could retire you financially.

I only saw a few plants, they are easily distinguishable. I don't think it was that old though. I should let her know. And normally if you harvest them you have to make records to avoid over harvesting.

[GoldenBrain]

I only saw a few plants, they are easily distinguishable. I don't think it was that old though. I should let her know. And normally if you harvest them you have to make records to avoid over harvesting.

Keeping records might be a good idea, but I think the most important thing is the time of year you harvest and that you replant it's seed when you do harvest. Also, if it's on a hill don't harvest the ones up hill but start at the bottom. I think they put out runners like bamboo so if you harvest the top ones you can kill them all. I could be wrong on that since I'm still learning about this amazing plant. Sorry to hear you don't have 10,000 plants…;) But, it's really cool just to have them.

[Raipizo]

I even think the berries are edible. The only problem growing them is the long wait period before harvest.

[GoldenBrain]

I even think the berries are edible. The only problem growing them is the long wait period before harvest.

I've read that the entire plant is edible. From what I read the berries are sort of neutral in taste but are really good for you. Some folks even chew on the stalks. One little nugget I read is a fella who puts the berries in his mouth while harvesting. He eats the pulp and spits the seeds back out for planting. Yes, that long wait is why they are worth so much money. I expect the value will only increase.

[Raipizo]

I've read that the entire plant is edible. From what I read the berries are sort of neutral in taste but are really good for you. Some folks even chew on the stalks. One little nugget I read is a fella who puts the berries in his mouth while harvesting. He eats the pulp and spits the seeds back out for planting. Yes, that long wait is why they are worth so much money. I expect the value will only increase.

Try growing some jiaogulan :)

[GoldenBrain]

Try growing some jiaogulan :)

I looked up some photos of that. It looks like ginseng.

To add to the list of stuff we were talking about via private message, I think I'll try growing danshen.

[Raipizo]

What is danshen oh wise one?

[Syn7]

What is danshen oh wise one?

Google Salvia miltiorrhiza. It has some pretty interesting properties. I dunno much about it though.

[GoldenBrain]

I believe danshen root is used as a blood mover to treat blood stasis. It also has some great results in treating a-fib heart condition. I'm sure there are some other things, but it's used quite a lot in traditional Chinese medicine and gets a pretty good rep. BTW, I won't use any of this stuff other than perhaps ginseng, goldenseal root and echinacea without proper supervision or training. I just want to grow them because I'm a garden nerd.:D

[Raipizo]

GB is a nerd! :D

[GoldenBrain]

GB is a nerd! :D

I can't deny this. :p

[Raipizo]

I can't deny this. :p

That's okay, we accept you for who you are haha

[GoldenBrain]

That's okay, we accept you for who you are haha

That is very gracious of you. If you did have a problem with my nerdness I'd have to remove this pocket protector and issue you an internet challenge.:mad:;):D

Okay, I don't really have a pocket protector, but I do have a nifty carpenters pencil tucked into my overalls. :cool:

[Syn7]

Yous countray!

Tell me you have a straw hat!

[GoldenBrain]

Yous countray!

Tell me you have a straw hat!


Hahahaha!:D

Sadly, none made of straw, but I do have a nice collection of Tilley hats.

[Syn7]

What's a tilley hat?


Do you have goats? You should get goats. They're nuts. My friends goat, a city goat no less, ate a paint can. That sounds harsh, but it was half full of paint, which makes it even worse. Lil ******* had off white paint all over his head. Nasty!

[Raipizo]

Get goats and have them ram your stomach. Build that endurance. Internet challenge me? How dare you. I challenge you to tai chi energy ball blast battle.

[GoldenBrain]

What's a tilley hat?


Do you have goats? You should get goats. They're nuts. My friends goat, a city goat no less, ate a paint can. That sounds harsh, but it was half full of paint, which makes it even worse. Lil ******* had off white paint all over his head. Nasty!


Tilley hats are some of the best hats made…period. They have a lifetime guarantee, however, in over 10 years of owning them I've never been able to destroy one, and for me that is saying something. These are two of my favorites.

http://www.tilley.com/The-T4MO-Organic-AIRFLO-Hat.aspx

http://www.tilley.com/The-TWC5-Outback-Hat.aspx

While I was on their website I notice they also have some new hemp hats, and this gem below which I am going to purchase just as soon as I wrap up this reply.

http://www.tilley.com/LT3C-Snap-Up-Camouflage-Hat.aspx


We plan on getting goats for sure, but we haven't completed our fence yet. I had hopes that it would have been done by this winter but with so many projects I just haven't been able to get to it. We have so much junk under our trees, like greenbriar and poison ivy so goats will be a welcome addition. The awesome thing about goats is that they will eat anything. They go right for the greenbriar and poison ivy and other nasty stuff first. Crazy animals!

[Raipizo]

You look like the archeologist in Jurassic Park then lol.

[GoldenBrain]

You look like the archeologist in Jurassic Park then lol.


Or, like a guy in overalls, or jeans, or BDUs, or, hiking/climbing pants, or shorts, or…etc. I walk in a lot of shoes, especially hiking boots. ;) No matter what shoes I choose for the day, I always protect my nugget from the sun. :cool:

[Raipizo]

I bet your wife finds that real sexy, lol.

[GoldenBrain]

I bet your wife finds that real sexy, lol.


She often demands that I go shirtless with my overalls. :eek: Bwaaahahahahahaha! Life is good! :D

[Raipizo]

She often demands that I go shirtless with my overalls. :eek: Bwaaahahahahahaha! Life is good! :D

Oh jeez tmi! Lol

[Syn7]

I need a new pair of hikers. Any suggestions, keeping in mind that I'm too cheap to spend more than like 120 bucks?

My last pair died like two years ago. I absolutely destroy my runners. Nothing says stupid like rugged hikes with indoor soccer shoes. :rolleyes: Believe that! I have pretty strong ankles from dance, gliding makes em solid as ****. But I think I've just been lucky considering the terrain I've torn through.

[GoldenBrain]

I need a new pair of hikers. Any suggestions, keeping in mind that I'm too cheap to spend more than like 120 bucks?

My last pair died like two years ago. I absolutely destroy my runners. Nothing says stupid like rugged hikes with indoor soccer shoes. :rolleyes: Believe that! I have pretty strong ankles from dance, gliding makes em solid as ****. But I think I've just been lucky considering the terrain I've torn through.


I've been into Vasque and Merrell shoes for over 10 years now. I have two pairs of low top Merrell Moab Ventilators which have served me very well. I liked the Moabs so much that I bought two pairs so I could have a clean set to walk around in and one for trail running. The Merrells are priced right and can be found for under $100.00 if you look around. My foot is normal width but I have heard that they fit narrow so if you have a wide foot then choose the wide option. For a more expensive high top option I highly recommend Vasque Breeze (non goretex) and all leather Vasque Taqu (with goretex). Both of the Vasque boots will serve you well if you backpack on rugged trails, and the Merrells are perfect for trail running and light backpacking. I use the Taqus for cold weather and the Breeze for warm weather. I hike and work around the property in both of those boots. I use the Moabs mainly for trail running. If you want an all leather low top, I also own and recommend Vasque Montras. I wear the Montras around for street wear but they are also really good hiker/trail runners. I just like to keep them clean so I usually go with one of the others. I have put hundreds and hundreds of miles on all of the above except for the Montras and they have held up extremely well. The Breeze boots have seen at least a thousand miles and although the soles are half worn they are still in great shape. I plan on getting them resoled sometime this year. I wash all of my shoes regularly in our front loading washer and they hold up to that as well.

[GoldenBrain]

Oh jeez tmi! Lol

Maybe this will help undo some of the damage I've caused.


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[Raipizo]

Very well then. How has your training been?

[GoldenBrain]

Very well then. How has your training been?


For a while I was slacking due to these effing projects, but now, somehow I manage to get daily training in. Lift weights, body weight exercises, Iron Palm/Body, forms, hit bag, cardio, light sparring with the wife…rinse, repeat…etc. It's 28 degrees out today so this Texan is shut in. I'm just doing a little work on the bowflex, JJs and forms in the great room. Nothing special today.

How goes it up north?

[Raipizo]

For a while I was slacking due to these effing projects, but now, somehow I manage to get daily training in. Lift weights, body weight exercises, Iron Palm/Body, forms, hit bag, cardio, light sparring with the wife…rinse, repeat…etc. It's 28 degrees out today so this Texan is shut in. I'm just doing a little work on the bowflex, JJs and forms in the great room. Nothing special today.

How goes it up north?

Trying to find a time to do it, haven't in awhile. With work and stuff I've been pretty busy. 28 is pretty cold for down there lol.

[GoldenBrain]

Trying to find a time to do it, haven't in awhile. With work and stuff I've been pretty busy. 28 is pretty cold for down there lol.

That's no good, but I do understand.

Yeah, 28 degrees is pretty cold even for N TX. It's now down to 24. Burrrrrr!

On a brighter side, I did have a tasty carrot, celery, spinach, yogurt, almonds, and orange juice smoothie tonight. Two thumbs up!!!

[Raipizo]

That's no good, but I do understand.

Yeah, 28 degrees is pretty cold even for N TX. It's now down to 24. Burrrrrr!

On a brighter side, I did have a tasty carrot, celery, spinach, yogurt, almonds, and orange juice smoothie tonight. Two thumbs up!!!

Lucky you! I might use some of the tax return for a vitamix :D

[David Jamieson]

Time to start actively teaching children how to prevent disease. Good hygiene, healthy diet, exercise and good sleep are key to good health.
Engaging in vice, sloth, poor eating and not sleeping will bring you illness a lot easier because it is akin to foolishly leaving your door to your room of gold open in a bad neighborhood.

In my opinion, these things would decrease the probability of acquiring disease many fold. Time to get off the allopathic bandwagon and think we can just hack away at these bodies and someone will give us pill to fix it.

[GoldenBrain]

Time to start actively teaching children how to prevent disease. Good hygiene, healthy diet, exercise and good sleep are key to good health.
Engaging in vice, sloth, poor eating and not sleeping will bring you illness a lot easier because it is akin to foolishly leaving your door to your room of gold open in a bad neighborhood.

In my opinion, these things would decrease the probability of acquiring disease many fold. Time to get off the allopathic bandwagon and think we can just hack away at these bodies and someone will give us pill to fix it.

I couldn't agree with this more. Well said!

[Raipizo]

I couldn't agree with this more. Well said!

At the same time this would cripple drug companies who make pills for the dumbest things. I see some of them for chronic disease yes but taking preventive care may have prevented you from getting it in the first place.

[Syn7]

If I eat right, sleep well, exercise and take the majik pill do I get to be a superhero?


Honestly, I take a balanced approach(for me). My life is more than preventing disease and injury. That balance depends on your priorities. Some people would rather take significant risks and die at 25 than live a strict regiment and live to 100. Most of us fall in the middle somewhere, yaknowhutimsayin? But there is no doubt that many need to step up their game.

[Raipizo]

Agreed, live hard and die young. I am not like that, no drugs alcohol etc. I try to eat well and take vitamins. I am not the usual young guy but hey I'm being what I want to be.

[GoldenBrain]

I'm being what I want to be

I like this statement. Too many people get bent out of shape because others are not the way they want them to be. I say scroooooem! Be what you want to be! Period!!! ***applause***

I also applaud Syn7. Balance is key! By the way, I think I've figured out why you selected, or rather were nicknamed Syn7. Either you are the musician or it's a chemistry thing. Am I close?

[Syn7]

I like this statement. Too many people get bent out of shape because others are not the way they want them to be. I say scroooooem! Be what you want to be! Period!!! ***applause***

I also applaud Syn7. Balance is key! By the way, I think I've figured out why you selected, or rather were nicknamed Syn7. Either you are the musician or it's a chemistry thing. Am I close?

Kinda. It has a chem angle but that came after the fact when some who are far more into chem than I am made the connection. It's funny how things like that can take on a life of it's own. It actually was Syntactic originally but was shortened to Syn pretty much right away. And yeah, that was a music thing, but there is some electronica cat who goes by Syn7 and that isn't me. And the seven came later on a hilariously crazy night and it stuck, but that's a long story.

I really do like taking a balanced approach. I'm not into the stoic thang. I don't deny myself life's pleasures, I just regulate them. Like most people, I'm sure I could do better. But when I look around at the people I grew up around who are the same age, that's when I see that I'm doing pretty well.

[SoCo KungFu]

I've been into Vasque and Merrell shoes for over 10 years now. I have two pairs of low top Merrell Moab Ventilators which have served me very well. I liked the Moabs so much that I bought two pairs so I could have a clean set to walk around in and one for trail running. The Merrells are priced right and can be found for under $100.00 if you look around. My foot is normal width but I have heard that they fit narrow so if you have a wide foot then choose the wide option. For a more expensive high top option I highly recommend Vasque Breeze (non goretex) and all leather Vasque Taqu (with goretex). Both of the Vasque boots will serve you well if you backpack on rugged trails, and the Merrells are perfect for trail running and light backpacking. I use the Taqus for cold weather and the Breeze for warm weather. I hike and work around the property in both of those boots. I use the Moabs mainly for trail running. If you want an all leather low top, I also own and recommend Vasque Montras. I wear the Montras around for street wear but they are also really good hiker/trail runners. I just like to keep them clean so I usually go with one of the others. I have put hundreds and hundreds of miles on all of the above except for the Montras and they have held up extremely well. The Breeze boots have seen at least a thousand miles and although the soles are half worn they are still in great shape. I plan on getting them resoled sometime this year. I wash all of my shoes regularly in our front loading washer and they hold up to that as well.

I like my Moabs. The sole is definitely the best part. Although, they held up well down south for a few years of rucking around scrub and even in swamp (which they weren't really made for). However, and maybe its been coming along and I'm just now noticing, but as soon as I got up here north and that first snow hit, they've since started going down hill. The sole is still great, but they're glued on and they're separating from the rest of the structure.

[GoldenBrain]

I like my Moabs. The sole is definitely the best part. Although, they held up well down south for a few years of rucking around scrub and even in swamp (which they weren't really made for). However, and maybe its been coming along and I'm just now noticing, but as soon as I got up here north and that first snow hit, they've since started going down hill. The sole is still great, but they're glued on and they're separating from the rest of the structure.

Ah man that blows about the soles. I agree they aren't made for the really rough stuff, but for the price you can replace them every couple of years, or gorilla glue them into submission.

I had a pair of Lowa's where the soles delaminated on both shoes at the same time. They let loose all the way to the heel, to the point that you could see my socks. It was like they just decided to fall apart on a certain milage. Planned obsolescence? I was at the halfway point on the Boone Fork trail along the Blue Ridge Pky, which by the way is one beautiful trail. My buddy and I had packs on for no other reason than for the extra weight. I was soooooo lucky that he had a bunch of duct tape wrapped around an ink pen. That's an engineer for ya, and a 180 IQ engineer at that. We taped my feet up, which looked absolutely ridiculous, but it got me out of there. We didn't see anybody up to that point but on the way back we must have passed 15 - 20 hikers. They all looked at my feet like I was the elephant man. I just smiled and duct taped my way right outta there. From then on I've been wearing Vasques for the hard stuff.

[SoCo KungFu]

I was at the halfway point on the Boone Fork trail along the Blue Ridge Pky, which by the way is one beautiful trail.

I haven't been on that one. Are you familiar with a little community called Celo, near Burnsville?

[GoldenBrain]

I haven't been on that one. Are you familiar with a little community called Celo, near Burnsville?

Oh yes, and what a beautiful place. NE of Mt. Mitchell, in the Pisgah National Forest right? Not really on the map, but more of a community as you put it. I don't really know anybody there, but I highly respect what they are about. I've hiked all over that general area. There are some amazing old growth stands to be found there. Especially if you are like me and tend to get way off the beaten path. I went through 5 or 6 years of a solo stealth camping phase where I would walk a certain milage on a given trail and at some point where I thought it was nice I would just drop off the trail and go really deep into the woods for a few days.

Are you from that area?

[SoCo KungFu]

Oh yes, and what a beautiful place. NE of Mt. Mitchell, in the Pisgah National Forest right? Not really on the map, but more of a community as you put it. I don't really know anybody there, but I highly respect what they are about. I've hiked all over that general area. There are some amazing old growth stands to be found there. Especially if you are like me and tend to get way off the beaten path. I went through 5 or 6 years of a solo stealth camping phase where I would walk a certain milage on a given trail and at some point where I thought it was nice I would just drop off the trail and go really deep into the woods for a few days.

Are you from that area?

No, not from there. There is a long standing tradition of summer birding/hiking through those parts. Great place to stage to hit up Pisgah, Mt. Mitchell, skip over to Roan, or hit up Devil's Courthouse, etc. I've only been recently going, but they (my mentor in biology, etc.) have been hitting up that little Celo Inn for some 20 years now. Lots of good hiking. And what most people don't realize, the southern Appalachians has the highest diversity of salamanders in the world. And they have the Blue Ghosts. Only lightning bugs in the world that shine that color. Sad though what's happening to that forest. Entire caps of dead stands, soon won't be much left.

Beautiful place though. And close enough to Asheville. Because Asheville has some good drinking. I totally recommend Wicked Weed. Or Thirsty Monk, if Belgians are your thing.

[GoldenBrain]

No, not from there. There is a long standing tradition of summer birding/hiking through those parts. Great place to stage to hit up Pisgah, Mt. Mitchell, skip over to Roan, or hit up Devil's Courthouse, etc. I've only been recently going, but they (my mentor in biology, etc.) have been hitting up that little Celo Inn for some 20 years now. Lots of good hiking. And what most people don't realize, the southern Appalachians has the highest diversity of salamanders in the world. And they have the Blue Ghosts. Only lightning bugs in the world that shine that color. Sad though what's happening to that forest. Entire caps of dead stands, soon won't be much left.

Beautiful place though. And close enough to Asheville. Because Asheville has some good drinking. I totally recommend Wicked Weed. Or Thirsty Monk, if Belgians are your thing.

I love Asheville! I've been to the Thirsty Monk, but not Wicked Weed (just added to the list of to-do's). The Thirsty Monk has some tasty brew, and a decent Reuben. The Reuben isn't quite as good as the one at Macado's in Boone, but it's close. Right down the road, stumble left, stumble right and you find the Mellow Mushroom…yummy!!!

Yeah, what they are doing to those forests just makes me want to cry. I know it's a renewable resource, and I have no problem with selective logging, but to clear cut a mountain top like they do there is just horrible. Have you ever been to Sugar Mt. and seen that hotel, Sugar Top I think it's called? It's like a giant cinder block plopped on top of a really beautiful mountain. At least they could have made it blend in somehow. Maybe leave a few trees to break the lines up a bit, or paint it cammo.

I've done some rock climbing at the Devil's Courthouse. You can see all the way to Georgia, TN and SC from the top. Just amazing!

Those blue ghosts are really cool. We have seen them in our yard in Millers Creek, so I don't think they are confined to just that area of the Appalachians. I was hiking around the Joyce Kilmer area one year on a solo. I left my little campfire to do my business and walked right into a swarm of these little beauties. It was like a forest full of blue glow sticks. It was pretty warm out so I went back to camp, put out the fire and just enjoyed natures light show.

Thanks for bringing that stuff up! Them's some good memories! I'll holla at you the next time I'm out that way and if you happen to be in the area maybe we can get a hike in or something.

[Raipizo]

I haven't gone hiking in awhile :p

[GoldenBrain]

I haven't gone hiking in awhile :p

Get yourself one of these beautiful creatures, and get your ass out in the woods! This is my dog Ofi (It's Choctaw for dog. Pronounced like opie, but sub the f for the p). She accepts no excuses!

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[Raipizo]

Get yourself one of these beautiful creatures, and get your ass out in the woods! This is my dog Ofi (It's Choctaw for dog. Pronounced like opie, but sub the f for the p). She accepts no excuses!

8066

I do have dogs :D is that a recent picture. That lack of snow disturbs me.

[Syn7]

That's a cool name. I had a cat named Cat once. It wasn't by design, I just couldn't think of a name and after like a week she was responding to "Hey CAT!" so it just stuck. That cat was nutz too. Lil curtin climbing face divebombing *******! Awesome mouser though.

I'm gonna name my next dog Tycho Brahe. Not so much because of who Brahe was, but cause it just sounds cool to my Danish ears. :p

[GoldenBrain]

I do have dogs is that a recent picture.

I took it just a few weeks ago on Jan 11, 2014. It was sometime during our morning walk in the back yard.



That lack of snow disturbs me.

This cracks me up. Not that I'm rubbing it in or anything...:p

[GoldenBrain]

That's a cool name. I had a cat named Cat once. It wasn't by design, I just couldn't think of a name and after like a week she was responding to "Hey CAT!" so it just stuck. That cat was nutz too. Lil curtin climbing face divebombing *******! Awesome mouser though.

I'm gonna name my next dog Tycho Brahe. Not so much because of who Brahe was, but cause it just sounds cool to my Danish ears. :p

Awesome! I like the names.


My great uncle had a cat named Damit. You know, come here Damit! That one always stuck with me.

In our family we believe dogs are cool enough to deserve two names, so my dogs official name is Ofi Chiiki (Chiiki is pronounced ChIkE). In the Choctaw language the two ii's are like a capital I, and one i is like a capital E. Chiiki means house, so Ofi Chiiki means house dog. Historical fact, Choctaw was one of the 20 or so Native American languages used for code talking in WWI and WWII. It's really complicated and I only know something like 50 words, but I try.

[SoCo KungFu]

I love Asheville! I've been to the Thirsty Monk, but not Wicked Weed (just added to the list of to-do's). The Thirsty Monk has some tasty brew, and a decent Reuben. The Reuben isn't quite as good as the one at Macado's in Boone, but it's close. Right down the road, stumble left, stumble right and you find the Mellow Mushroom…yummy!!!

Yeah, what they are doing to those forests just makes me want to cry. I know it's a renewable resource, and I have no problem with selective logging, but to clear cut a mountain top like they do there is just horrible. Have you ever been to Sugar Mt. and seen that hotel, Sugar Top I think it's called? It's like a giant cinder block plopped on top of a really beautiful mountain. At least they could have made it blend in somehow. Maybe leave a few trees to break the lines up a bit, or paint it cammo.

I've done some rock climbing at the Devil's Courthouse. You can see all the way to Georgia, TN and SC from the top. Just amazing!

Those blue ghosts are really cool. We have seen them in our yard in Millers Creek, so I don't think they are confined to just that area of the Appalachians. I was hiking around the Joyce Kilmer area one year on a solo. I left my little campfire to do my business and walked right into a swarm of these little beauties. It was like a forest full of blue glow sticks. It was pretty warm out so I went back to camp, put out the fire and just enjoyed natures light show.

Thanks for bringing that stuff up! Them's some good memories! I'll holla at you the next time I'm out that way and if you happen to be in the area maybe we can get a hike in or something.

Supposedly the ghosts used to extend around the southeast. I do think there may be some recorded sightings in the FL panhandle. For some reason they've been declining.

I have mixed feelings about the timber industry. Deforestation is slowing in rate in the US. But its still happening. The other issue is when you look and see we are using less than we grow. 1) We import wood (which mean its getting cut somewhere else. 2) We're increasing density but its young growth. That said, at least the forestry people have gotten better about mixing age and such, to at least try to keep some diversity going. And I would much rather us use wood as opposed to fossil fuel. Mainly because using fossil adds carbon that used to be locked up under ground. Wood, we're just releasing what the trees absorbed, so its a net zero. But I was actually referring to the adelgids that have invaded and are destroying the forest. Between pollution, temp changes, low atmospheric ozone (which we hear nearly nothing about anymore) and to top it off, the adelgids...take pictures of the hemlocks now while you still can.

That hotel is such an eyesore if its the one I'm thinking of. You can see that crap all the way from Roan. The good though, that spawned legislation banning that kind of development on mountain caps.

[GoldenBrain]

And I would much rather us use wood as opposed to fossil fuel. Mainly because using fossil adds carbon that used to be locked up under ground. Wood, we're just releasing what the trees absorbed, so its a net zero.

I've never considered this. Good info which I shall now research a bit. If correct, I don't feel so bad about burning wo



But I was actually referring to the adelgids that have invaded and are destroying the forest. Between pollution, temp changes, low atmospheric ozone (which we hear nearly nothing about anymore) and to top it off, the adelgids...take pictures of the hemlocks now while you still can.

Another new one to me. I just looked up what adelgids are and I have seen them but never knew what I was looking at. It would be really sad to loose the Hemlocks. Sounds like the American Chestnut story. Such is life on earth I guess…survival of the fittest. Sad though.


That hotel is such an eyesore if its the one I'm thinking of. You can see that crap all the way from Roan. The good though, that spawned legislation banning that kind of development on mountain caps.

That's the one. You can see it for 50 miles on a really clear day. I am glad about the ban on future development, but those folks around Banner Elk still have to live with that eyesore. Maybe an earthquake will strike just that mountain, while nobody at all is in the hotel and erase the problem. Wishful thinking.

[Syn7]

We're getting our asses kicked by the mountain pine beetle up here. Another lil side effect of warming trends. There are these huge swaths of dead/dying pines now, so we have to consider the fire angle too. It's pretty ugly.

[GoldenBrain]

We're getting our asses kicked by the mountain pine beetle up here. Another lil side effect of warming trends. There are these huge swaths of dead/dying pines now, so we have to consider the fire angle too. It's pretty ugly.

I don't know if it's true, but I've read that North America has more forests now than in the 1700's because we fight forest fires. This is probably BS, but do you think it's because of the lack of natural fires that these little guys are out of control? Possibly a result of warmer temps due to climate change? They aren't invasive, so those are the only two things I can think of that might cause this imbalance.

[Syn7]

I don't know if it's true, but I've read that North America has more forests now than in the 1700's because we fight forest fires. This is probably BS, but do you think it's because of the lack of natural fires that these little guys are out of control? Possibly a result of warmer temps due to climate change? They aren't invasive, so those are the only two things I can think of that might cause this imbalance.

Well, I would most certainly call them invasive. But yes, they are native.

I don't know if we have more forest now, but we most certainly save regions by putting them out. Whether this offsets logging or not, I dunno. But people have been slashing and burning forever too. Natives used to make massive firebreaks with controlled burns as well as backburning when it got scary. So it's not as if fighting forest fires is a new concept to N America, but we are most definitely more spread out and better equipped now.

As for the pine beetle, it's thought that they are surviving winter at a greater rate than before because of warming. But I don't know that much about it.

[GoldenBrain]

Good point about the natives building fire breaks. There were something like a possible 80 million natives in N. America before the Europeans arrived. Europe at that time was something like 40 million. So, it's not like the natives didn't have the numbers spread across the country to do some damage to fires.


I suspect it's the warmer winters, although y'all have some pretty fierce winters up there so who knows.


No matter what the story, it's pretty hard to watch a beautiful forest getting decimated by anything.

[Raipizo]

Don't forget the Ash borer beetle also. Those guys are supposed to be pretty bad.

[Syn7]

Good point about the natives building fire breaks. There were something like a possible 80 million natives in N. America before the Europeans arrived. Europe at that time was something like 40 million. So, it's not like the natives didn't have the numbers spread across the country to do some damage to fires.


I suspect it's the warmer winters, although y'all have some pretty fierce winters up there so who knows.


No matter what the story, it's pretty hard to watch a beautiful forest getting decimated by anything.

Doesn't get that cold where I am. You want an American comparison, it's like Seattle here. Wet and moderate. You gotta go north and/or east to find the real cold. I can't remember the last time we had snow for more than a few days at a time.

One cool thing about being up north is that the days are long in summer. We get daylight till like 930.

[GoldenBrain]

Doesn't get that cold where I am. You want an American comparison, it's like Seattle here. Wet and moderate. You gotta go north and/or east to find the real cold. I can't remember the last time we had snow for more than a few days at a time.

One cool thing about being up north is that the days are long in summer. We get daylight till like 930.

That's pretty decent weather. I have some family in Seattle, and other than the overcast the weather is pretty nice. You're not really that far away. It's kind of like areas in the lower latitudes where we depend on the cold to suppress the insects like mosquitoes. If it's a warmer winter the mossies will be real bad the next summer. I'm guessing the beetles are much the same. If it's not cold enough during winter then they are bad the next season. Several years of this equals devastation of those beautiful forests.

Raipizo brings up a third devastating insect within just a few posts. Of course I'm just guessing here, but the lack of a really cold winter might be the culprit. We are experiencing a harsh winter this year so lets see if these insects are still kicking hard next spring/summer.

[Raipizo]

That's pretty decent weather. I have some family in Seattle, and other than the overcast the weather is pretty nice. You're not really that far away. It's kind of like areas in the lower latitudes where we depend on the cold to suppress the insects like mosquitoes. If it's a warmer winter the mossies will be real bad the next summer. I'm guessing the beetles are much the same. If it's not cold enough during winter then they are bad the next season. Several years of this equals devastation of those beautiful forests.

Raipizo brings up a third devastating insect within just a few posts. Of course I'm just guessing here, but the lack of a really cold winter might be the culprit. We are experiencing a harsh winter this year so lets see if these insects are still kicking hard next spring/summer.

I heard somewhere that this really cold winter will kill off a majority of either them or some other destructive bug. I forget though :c

[GoldenBrain]

I heard somewhere that this really cold winter will kill off a majority of either them or some other destructive bug. I forget though :c

Yeah, we needed this brutally cold winter. I just hope it gets the mosquitos and ticks back under control.

[Raipizo]

Yeah, we needed this brutally cold winter. I just hope it gets the mosquitos and ticks back under control.

Yeah hopefully lol.

[SoCo KungFu]

The cold may slow them down a year or two, but I'm highly skeptical that its going to knock them out. Every year they say this with a different invader and it never is the case. The best hope is that it knocks them back enough, and again in following years, that it allows time for native predators to adjust and learn to eat them. That's the best control. Yet another reason we need to stop jacking up our native environment.

As to fires. Fire suppression has been one of the worst things we have done historically. Fire is one of the ways that invasive plants are kept in check. Our native trees and such have evolved with regular natural fires. Also suppression allows density to build up and when one does occur, its more intense. Suppression is threatening the giant redwoods even. It allows understory trees to grow higher, which then when fires do form, the blaze can reach the crowns of the giant reds. Their trunks are evolved to resist flame, but if it hits the crown, they're done for. A lot of the pines in the south evolved with fire as well. That's why long leaf have all those different growth stages. And then there's gopher tortoises.

Actually one of the faculty here has a Phd candidate looking at riparian wildfire and found that it actually increases productivity in the rivers and insects will actually increase emergence following them, which down the line spikes fish populations and such. Which any fisherman should be thankful for.

[Syn7]

I've been into Vasque and Merrell shoes for over 10 years now.


So I saw some Merrells on Sat. And others. I find that with shoes in general, the soles are glued on and ALWAYS the first bad thing to happen to my shoes as they age is the sole coming apart. I looked at a few diff brands and they ALL looked like crap in that respect. Some were like 200 bucks, yet still the same ****ty glue job. This annoys me.

But that aside, I need hikers. So the Merrells look good. They're like $85CDN. Good call.

And of course I woke up to like 6 inches of snow, the street hadn't been plowed and I had no idea it was coming. :mad: Awesome morning. Wet feet all freakin day! It was warm and sunny all day and tonight is clear. Man... the morning is gonna be a nightmare. The thing about Vancouver is that it snows so little that people just get all seasons. But it does snow pretty much every year a few times for a few days at a time. With all due respect, a good 3/4 of the city I call home is retarded.

[GoldenBrain]

So I saw some Merrells on Sat. And others. I find that with shoes in general, the soles are glued on and ALWAYS the first bad thing to happen to my shoes as they age is the sole coming apart. I looked at a few diff brands and they ALL looked like crap in that respect. Some were like 200 bucks, yet still the same ****ty glue job. This annoys me.

But that aside, I need hikers. So the Merrells look good. They're like $85CDN. Good call.

And of course I woke up to like 6 inches of snow, the street hadn't been plowed and I had no idea it was coming. :mad: Awesome morning. Wet feet all freakin day! It was warm and sunny all day and tonight is clear. Man... the morning is gonna be a nightmare. The thing about Vancouver is that it snows so little that people just get all seasons. But it does snow pretty much every year a few times for a few days at a time. With all due respect, a good 3/4 of the city I call home is retarded.

You definitely need some leather boots for that snow, but I'm glad you like the Merrells. I am so with you about the glued on soles. It seems like everything out there has vibram soles which all appear to be glued on. That's the thing that goes first on my shoes also and it usually starts at the heels. My mat shoes for MA training do the same thing. I try to catch it early, like within a millimeter or two of them lifting off the edges of the footbed, and touch them up with gorilla glue. The gorilla glue works wonders and has saved me a lot of money in shoes, especially training shoes which I just beat all to hell.

[Raipizo]

just found this GB http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdU1NhmIsO8

[GoldenBrain]

just found this GB http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdU1NhmIsO8

That's interesting, and disturbing for those who take this stuff. I just skimmed the video though.

The truth is, in my opinion, unless you are unable to get adequate amounts of protein in your diet I don't think anybody needs to be taking this kind of supplement. Diets that are too high in protein can lead to serious health problems such as osteoporosis, kidney disease, urinary tract stones, and possibly some cancers. There are many sources for this information but the following article was the first thing that popped up when I performed a search and it seems to sum it up nicely. http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vsk/vegetarian-starter-kit-protein

[Raipizo]

That's interesting, and disturbing for those who take this stuff. I just skimmed the video though.

The truth is, in my opinion, unless you are unable to get adequate amounts of protein in your diet I don't think anybody needs to be taking this kind of supplement. Diets that are too high in protein can lead to serious health problems such as osteoporosis, kidney disease, urinary tract stones, and possibly some cancers. There are many sources for this information but the following article was the first thing that popped up when I performed a search and it seems to sum it up nicely. http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vsk/vegetarian-starter-kit-protein

I thought you took their green powder so I was giving you a heads up :p

[GoldenBrain]

I thought you took their green powder so I was giving you a heads up :p

Oops! Sorry man, I told you I just skimmed it.:o I thought it was more about the raw protein products, but now I see it's the same company that makes the green powder. The good news for us is that we haven't used much of it since we have a regular supply of fresh greens. It was mainly just to get us started. I just walked over to the pantry and there is at least 75 percent left in the can, and that can just hit the trash. Many thanks for bringing this to my attention!

Something we all can take away from this is that you just never know what's in processed foods and supplements. Just because it says healthy organic and all that doesn't mean it's safe. The only way to know for sure what's in our foods is to grow/raise it ourselves.

Edit: I just sent this information to the local Green Market we found this product at. Hopefully they'll remove it from their shelves. This is just another in a long list of epic fails from the USFDA.

Here's some more info and a few nuggets from the article. Thankfully the green powder didn't have these heavy metals, but the protein powders way exceeded the limits.

In one lot we tested (E2694A), we found concentrations so high that:

• Lead intake from a single serving exceeds California Prop 65 limits for dietary supplements by 2,700%.

• Cadmium intake from a single serving exceeds California Prop 65 limits for dietary supplements by over 1,000%.

• Tungsten concentrations were so high that they exceeded the lead concentration by nearly 2,000%.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/043759_garden_of_life_raw_protein_heavy_metals.htm l#ixzz2sOGUM9Gn

[GoldenBrain]

A toast to my buddy Raipizo for keeping me in the know!

This one has carrots, spinach, celery, orange juice, greek yogurt, shelled hemp seed, goji berries and some raw ginger root. Delicious!!!

8074

Not sure why the photo posted sideways since the original wasn't that way.

[Raipizo]

A toast to my buddy Raipizo for keeping me in the know!

This one has carrots, spinach, celery, orange juice, greek yogurt, shelled hemp seed, goji berries and some raw ginger root. Delicious!!!

8074

Not sure why the photo posted sideways since the original wasn't that way.

Good thing I didn't buy any of it from amazon :p. I think it's more of the fact of the brown rice being dirty and laced with these metals than the fact that the company's fault. Now idk if companies check their products for heavy metals, I'm sure not. Hope this brings it to their attention so they can address the issue. I use whey protein so I shouldn't have this problem and avoided the hormone problem by using free range organic whey. And I usually only use that when I exercise which I have been to lazy to start back up :(. That looks delightfully orange lol. Gene flipped the photo I bet, he is a sneaky snake. Looks yummy, I need to get some smoothie supplies and pick up some more chia seeds.

[GoldenBrain]

Good thing I didn't buy any of it from amazon :p. I think it's more of the fact of the brown rice being dirty and laced with these metals than the fact that the company's fault. Now idk if companies check their products for heavy metals, I'm sure not. Hope this brings it to their attention so they can address the issue. I use whey protein so I shouldn't have this problem and avoided the hormone problem by using free range organic whey. And I usually only use that when I exercise which I have been to lazy to start back up :(. That looks delightfully orange lol. Gene flipped the photo I bet, he is a sneaky snake. Looks yummy, I need to get some smoothie supplies and pick up some more chia seeds.

I'm glad you didn't buy it either, however it appears that their protein supplements are the problem and not the green powder, so you'd have been alright. I feel better knowing that it wasn't the green powder since my wife and I consumed about a 1/4 of the container. I tossed ours in the trash because we don't need it anymore and I no longer trust this company. Companies like this that advertise healthy organic should definitely test their products, as should all companies that sell food or supplement products, but the real let down is the USFDA who is supposed to be the watchdog for this kind of thing.

I'm not sure about orange, but it was a pretty shade of muddy yellow. :D Normally my carrot based smoothies are much more orange, but I added 3 big handfuls of spinach to this one so it really changed the color. It was good though. While I was taking that photo my wife and son were happily chugging theirs.

I made one today for some visiting family that was just amazing. We whipped up a few jars of almond butter to give them, so I took what was left in the blender and instead of scraping it out I and added raw dark coco, bananas, yogurt, coconut milk and dark cherries. Oh man, it was like a banana cherry reese's peanut butter cup shake.

[Raipizo]

I'm glad you didn't buy it either, however it appears that their protein supplements are the problem and not the green powder, so you'd have been alright. I feel better knowing that it wasn't the green powder since my wife and I consumed about a 1/4 of the container. I tossed ours in the trash because we don't need it anymore and I no longer trust this company. Companies like this that advertise healthy organic should definitely test their products, as should all companies that sell food or supplement products, but the real let down is the USFDA who is supposed to be the watchdog for this kind of thing.

I'm not sure about orange, but it was a pretty shade of muddy yellow. :D Normally my carrot based smoothies are much more orange, but I added 3 big handfuls of spinach to this one so it really changed the color. It was good though. While I was taking that photo my wife and son were happily chugging theirs.

I made one today for some visiting family that was just amazing. We whipped up a few jars of almond butter to give them, so I took what was left in the blender and instead of scraping it out I and added raw dark coco, bananas, yogurt, coconut milk and dark cherries. Oh man, it was like a banana cherry reese's peanut butter cup shake.

Looked kinda orangish. I agree that they should. Things always slip past the usfda which is why I always try to watch what I eat.