The benefits of Competing?

[Aramus]

What do you think are the advantages or the benefits to competing? Do you think competing helps your students or yourself to some degree?


Background to question: Wife has a debate dealing with competing in music vs. teaching music instead of competing. I'm interested in your perspective on how you view competition. I think it would be helpful to assume a good competitive spirit amongst the participants and then a what-if it wasn't so sportmanship like.

Thank you for your help. Have fun...


"In the game of life, I find it is helpful to play."

[qeySuS]

I practice 3x harder when i know a tournement is coming up, that's a good reason to compete i think :)

Free thinkers are dangerous!

[SevenStar]

competing can be a good way to meet people and also to get a glimpse of other styles in action. A guy I KOed in the ring asked if I wanted to grab a beer after the fight. I don't drink, so I declined, but it was great sportsmanship nonetheless. As mentioned before, it also gives you a peek at what other styles do. I personally despise point fighting, but i like to go to point tourneys anyway so I can check out/enter the forms competition. There are some real a§§holes at those events also, but I don't let them bother me, so it doesn't ruin anything for me.

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

[SevenStar]

have your wife think about this...by competing, she will no doubt be practicing harder, and at at same time, experiencing other good competitiors, which will only help her. All of this will help her to become a better teacher.

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

[qeySuS]

Just a thought, what's the definition of "Point sparring" ? Is it like some Kumite (karate) tournements where you cant make too hard contact and only go for the points? Or is it a tournement where you compete and if it doesnt end in a KO/TKO it goes by the points?

Because boxing and even MMA is point sparring if the latter definition is correct, and i cant say i remember many tournements where the first definition applies. It's just because most people i know would define TKD as point sparring, but if TKD is point sparring so is boxing, so ...

Free thinkers are dangerous!

[HuangKaiVun]

My teacher, Aaron Rosand, believes that to make it as a classical violin soloist nowadays that one MUST win 1st prize in an international violin competition.

Otherwise agents just won't come your way, no matter how good you are.

[Xebsball]

qeyDude,

I think its like this that the americans say "point sparring":

Two fighters face each other.
The fighter from the pink corner hits a kick in the fighter from the yellow corner.
The referee says "Point to the pink one".
They are separeted again.

So its like when someone is hit, the fight stops.
Well, i think so.

-------------------------
"I AM EFFECTIVNESS"

[SevenStar]

nah, Qey, it's nothing like boxing.

punches are 1 point, kicks are 2 points. the first one to get five points, or whoever is ahead after 2 minutes wins. after a point is scored, the fighters are separated and and returned to their starting position. Basically, any technique is legal, whether it's a clean technique or not. I can jump in the air and hit you on top of the head. That would get you killed in a fight, but in point fighting, you will get a point for it.
Legal target areas are: entire head and face, ribs, chest, abdomen, collarbone and kidneys. You may not kick below the belt.

Note: only blackbelts are allowed to strike to the face. Underbelts may only strike the side and top of the head.

Contact must be light or moderate. You will receive a warning on the first offense, and have a point taken for additional offenses if you hit your opponent too hard (Trust me, I know ;) )

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

[Budokan]

Competition is a good way to have fun with other people and meet other MA, but it is not the end all and be all of martial arts nor should it be considered as such.

I'm pretty much of a traditionalist when it comes to competitions. They're okay if you like that sort of thing, but let's not blow them up into something greater than the art itself we're training in--as so many do.

Also, I don't really have much of a problem with "traditional" forms and such in tournaments, but I HATE the flashy lights, satin uniforms and Britney Spears soundtrack in the background of a kama kata...

Just me, I guess.

K. Mark Hoover

[Ryu]

Not just you.

Ryu

http://home.vobis.net/user/roy/anime/images/streetfighter15.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[SevenStar]

I completely agree - and what's with some of these kiais nowadays? they sound like they're constipated and they kiai after every technique. I don't think that was the point of his post though. He's just trying to help his wife decide whether or not to compete. He's not trying to convince her that competition is everything.

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

[nospam]

Competing against other styles is a good way to see where your skills are, to a certain degree. I wouldn't get hung up on winning (although we all would like that), especially in a point system, as you may tap my head and get a point but it was you who landed on your TKD (style randomly chosen:0) arse.

nospam.

[Aramus]

Not the end all be all. For music, the emphasis is on learning a piece (a song or songs) and being REALLY good at that. If this is emphasized too much you lose out on the history, diversity, background, etc. You can play one piece very well, but MAY lack the history, background, time period, understanding and the other things that make music complete. She was a competitor in sports and music. As a teacher she feels she missed out in high school because competition was the focus and the majority of the teaching. Competition has its place, but there is more to music. Performance, history, understanding, fixing music instruments (very important), different styles, etc. Currently she plays for the Westerville Symphony but to get her PHD and such she has to perform/test into the school.

In martial arts, I believe that competition can be fun, a good experience, exposes you to new ideas, people, and styles (for the single people...the opposite sex and possible dates). I like to watch the forms; some of the kiai's is out of hand, especially with the younger group (no offense intended...this is just what my limited view has shown me). Competitions aren't for everyone...I think you need to train in your style, uninhibited by sport/tournament rules. But that could just be me.
Thanks for the comments everyone.

[Xebsball]

How are things in USA, can a kung fu guy compete on forms with karate people or fight in TKD tournaments?

Here its all separeted. There is no music on neither kung fu or karate forms tournament. And also the tradicional forms are separeted from the wushu ones.

The only ones that are music/entretainment oriented are in some kickboxing events. They have fighting and "musical forms".

Getting back to the original thread i belive competitions pushes you to train harder and overall can make you a better fighter.
As for competition in music, personally i dont like it. For me music is about feeling, its about soul. You cant decide who is the best musician because people have diferent characteristics in their music, its their very own personal expression.
So if a musician wins, what does it means? Is he the most skilled technicly (can play very fast with cirurgic precision) or is he a person that loves music and puts his personal touch, his trademark, his interpretation in the music?

-------------------------
"I AM EFFECTIVNESS"

[JWTAYLOR]

Copetition, of any kind, puts you under some level of stress. People act very differently when under stress than they do when they are non stressed. It's a good chance to see how you will perform when your body and mind are a little hyped up.
JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[qeySuS]

Ok i get your drift with the point thingie. Seperation after a point sucks ass, doesnt give you any room for a combination, and doesnt give the other guy a chance to come back after the point, if he does something that does score him a point but puts him in a vaulnerable (you should hear my try to pronounce this word) position is it just stopped and the other isnt allowed to capitalize on this ?

Free thinkers are dangerous!

[SevenStar]

you got it. The judge yells for you to stop, says "judges call" and all of the judges motion as to who got the point. then you return to your fighting stances and prepare to go at it again.

"Just because I joke around sometimes doesn't mean I'm serious about kung-fu.
" - nightair

[HuangKaiVun]

Aramus, what instrument does your wife play? I'm a violinist, as you can see.


In martial arts and music, there's always going to be competition.

Those that pontificate endlessly about how they're above competition are usually those that indulge in it most violently. Even the beloved violinist Fritz Kreisler was not immune to this, as he deliberately trashed Jan Kubelik publicly because Kubelik was outplaying and outearning him.

Classical music has probably the most vicious competing and backstabbing I've ever seen. Everybody is angling for just a few spots.


But when it comes down to it, all issues in music are settled on stage. THIS is the highest form of "competition".

This is no different from the kung fu man accepting a challenge to a duel sans referee.

[Aramus]

Well, just about any instrument. As a music teacher at Otterbein, you have to be proficient with woods, brass, winds, etc. Her major focus is percussion (anything you hit something else with).

You're right about cut throat competition. Wow! Conductors are just as cut throat as the instrumentalist.

In MA, it seems to be recognized as good you need to prove it in competition. This makes sense as it's hard to boost your record as a street fighter, then people may question your integrity (why did you get in a street fight, etc.).

In general competition can bring the best or the worst out of a person. When I played basketball, our practices were very intense and always mimiced the game. We practiced the last second shot, few seconds left and you need three points, etc. If we failed we had to run and such. The coaches even set up the game clock and people could come to practice. This made actually playing the game a lot easier. From what I've read, you need to practice for a style of tournament to win. Not just your martial art. I've known people that just practice their weapon for the forms competitions and such.

OK, not sure where I'm going with this...gonna stop now.

Have a good day, night, evening, mourning, or something where ever you are!