Major outer reap

[Faux Newbie]

Does anyone here have any tips for setting up a good reap in context of striking and throwing? I enjoy this throw, but mostly am able to work it from bridge or clinch, so I'm curious how others enter from striking to do it, or if that is even advisable.

Also, how do you prefer to control after the reap?

[Spiked]

Does anyone here have any tips for setting up a good reap in context of striking and throwing? I enjoy this throw, but mostly am able to work it from bridge or clinch, so I'm curious how others enter from striking to do it, or if that is even advisable.

Also, how do you prefer to control after the reap?

I googled a video to see what it was.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_LXeVri0K8

Are you a jacket wrestler?

[Faux Newbie]

What do you mean by outer reap?

Osotogari.

[GoldenBrain]

Hey FN, err KC,

I'm newish, but I've read a bunch through the years, however I can't remember if you like to troll so I hope I'm not setting myself up here. Ah well, who cares, I'll play along anyway.

I like to use outer reap from striking but it's a bit of a bridge so here is my method… If opponent throws a straight right, you check with left hand, deflect with right hand with palm up like holding a tray. We call it bear slap for the check and willow tree for the deflection. After the right hand deflection turn that hand over and step in like you are shinning but instead use it as a reap. You can either grab the throat or clothesline with the right hand and sweep back with the right foot.

I like to use this to setup a choke rather than a reap though because there's more control after the takedown. At the point where you are about to sweep just do a 180 so your facing the same direction and use the right arm you are clotheslining with to wrap around the neck, plant your left hand behind the head and use left leg to knee them up in the air a bit, step back, then blood choke them when their ass hits the ground.

[Snipsky]

that's in kong foo....foo!

[YouKnowWho]

Does anyone here have any tips for setting up a good reap in context of striking and throwing? ... Also, how do you prefer to control after the reap?

The "切(Qie) - front cut" is the easiest throw to be integrated into the striking art. Since you will use your leg to deal with your opponent's leg, you will have 2 free arms to deal with your opponent's arms. It's much safer to use it in combat than to use the wrestling "single leg" when your opponent's both arms are free.

In wrestling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFgVrUMzZZE

In striking:

You can enter through your opponent's side door by using "double pulling".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et3xc6MqEpE&feature=youtu.be

You can also enter through your opponent's front door by using "arm wrapping".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANvzT83GIwA&feature=youtu.be

In either cases, after you have controlled your opponent's right arm, you can use your right elbow to smash on his face and use your right leg to take him down at the same time. In TCMA, this is called "black hand" because even if you use it in sport, most of the time the referee won't be able to tell whether you smash your elbow on your opponent's face on purpose or it's just an accident.

IMO, the best control is to use your:

- left arm to control your opponent's right arm (this can turn into an arm bar by using your left knee as leverage).
- right hand to control his throat (this can turn into an elbow striking on his face).
- right knee to drop on his body.

[Spiked]

The "切(Qie) - front cut" is the easiest throw to be integrated into the striking art. Since you will use your leg to deal with your opponent's leg, you will have 2 free arms to deal with your opponent's arms. It's much safer to use the "front cut' than to use the wrestling "single leg".

In wrestling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFgVrUMzZZE

In striking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et3xc6MqEpE&feature=youtu.be

I guess the technique in the second video would work if a guy just stood there.

[GoldenBrain]

I guess the technique in the second video would work if a guy just stood there.

It works better if the opponent is moving forward. If they are just standing there it would be hard to pull off. The video was instructional so they obviously weren't going at it full speed.

[YouKnowWho]

I guess the technique in the second video would work if a guy just stood there.

If your opponent

- can move back faster than your advance, none of your techniques will work on him.
- just lays down on the ground, none of your throws can work on him.
- is already dead, there is no way that you will be able to kill him.
- ...

We can only discuss one situation at any time. When that situation changes, that technique will no longer be valid.

[Faux Newbie]

Hey FN, err KC,

I'm newish, but I've read a bunch through the years, however I can't remember if you like to troll so I hope I'm not setting myself up here. Ah well, who cares, I'll play along anyway.

I like to use outer reap from striking but it's a bit of a bridge so here is my method… If opponent throws a straight right, you check with left hand, deflect with right hand with palm up like holding a tray. We call it bear slap for the check and willow tree for the deflection. After the right hand deflection turn that hand over and step in like you are shinning but instead use it as a reap. You can either grab the throat or clothesline with the right hand and sweep back with the right foot.

I like to use this to setup a choke rather than a reap though because there's more control after the takedown. At the point where you are about to sweep just do a 180 so your facing the same direction and use the right arm you are clotheslining with to wrap around the neck, plant your left hand behind the head and use left leg to knee them up in the air a bit, step back, then blood choke them when their ass hits the ground.

I don't troll in the 'use the internet as an excuse to turn random people into my own entertainment like some passive aggressive coward sociopath', but I occasionally joke around.

Thanks for the reply, I'll have to read it more closely tomorrow!

[Faux Newbie]

The "切(Qie) - front cut" is the easiest throw to be integrated into the striking art. Since you will use your leg to deal with your opponent's leg, you will have 2 free arms to deal with your opponent's arms. It's much safer to use it in combat than to use the wrestling "single leg" when your opponent's both arms are free.

In wrestling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFgVrUMzZZE

In striking:

You can enter through your opponent's side door by using "double pulling".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et3xc6MqEpE&feature=youtu.be

You can also enter through your opponent's front door by using "arm wrapping".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANvzT83GIwA&feature=youtu.be

In either cases, after you have controlled your opponent's right arm, you can use your right elbow to smash on his face and use your right leg to take him down at the same time. In TCMA, this is called "black hand" because even if you use it in sport, most of the time the referee won't be able to tell whether you smash your elbow on your opponent's face on purpose or it's just an accident.

IMO, the best control is to use your:

- left arm to control your opponent's right arm (this can turn into an arm bar by using your left knee as leverage).
- right hand to control his throat (this can turn into an elbow striking on his face).
- right knee to drop on his body.

Thanks, Youknowwho!

[GoldenBrain]

I don't troll in the 'use the internet as an excuse to turn random people into my own entertainment like some passive aggressive coward sociopath', but I occasionally joke around.

Thanks for the reply, I'll have to read it more closely tomorrow!

Excellent! I shall look forward to further jovial exchanges then. I wasn't sure because it's been a bit of a troll hangout here lately. Peace!

[Faux Newbie]

Excellent! I shall look forward to further jovial exchanges then. I wasn't sure because it's been a bit of a troll hangout here lately. Peace!

No problem, though, if I'm understanding the current forum etiquette from my one day back and my exchanges with Snipsky, I should tell you I'm not Chinese. Forgive me. I'm working on it.

[Snipsky]

let us know when you make it to becoming a Chinese.....we may accept you then.:D

[GoldenBrain]

No problem, though, if I'm understanding the current forum etiquette from my one day back and my exchanges with Snipsky, I should tell you I'm not Chinese. Forgive me. I'm working on it.

Hahaha! I'm racially color blind so no worries. Although, I will use my indian heritage to my advantage at the drop of a hat.;)

[Faux Newbie]

let us know when you make it to becoming a Chinese.....we may accept you then.:D

Does it help that when I have problems at home, I blame the Japanese?

[Spiked]

You deleted your other thread. Lol. Grow a pair and come back as a different name again.

[Faux Newbie]

I like to use outer reap from striking but it's a bit of a bridge so here is my method… If opponent throws a straight right, you check with left hand, deflect with right hand with palm up like holding a tray. We call it bear slap for the check and willow tree for the deflection. After the right hand deflection turn that hand over and step in like you are shinning but instead use it as a reap. You can either grab the throat or clothesline with the right hand and sweep back with the right foot.



Am I correct that we're assuming left leg lead stance (orthodox stance) in this description?

[Faux Newbie]

The "切(Qie) - front cut" is the easiest throw to be integrated into the striking art. Since you will use your leg to deal with your opponent's leg, you will have 2 free arms to deal with your opponent's arms. It's much safer to use it in combat than to use the wrestling "single leg" when your opponent's both arms are free.

That's something I've been noticing, but wanted to confirm that I'm not missing something important.




In either cases, after you have controlled your opponent's right arm, you can use your right elbow to smash on his face and use your right leg to take him down at the same time. In TCMA, this is called "black hand" because even if you use it in sport, most of the time the referee won't be able to tell whether you smash your elbow on your opponent's face on purpose or it's just an accident.

As the technique is in the style I do, your description helps quite a bit, and is similar in broad terms. Mind you, we try to use the left arms "rolling elbow" to collapse their right arm into their side, the left can then elbow on the way in, but we then attempt to continue the rolling elbow while stepping directly into their stance, replacing the lead foot with the rear, and initiating the reap in order to catch their rear leg as their footwork lifts from the ground from being pressed. Still deciding what I think of this approach, if the press pushes them too far, and you don't catch the rear leg, I find I have to give up on the reap and use other techniques to take advantage of the press.


IMO, the best control is to use your:

- left arm to control your opponent's right arm (this can turn into an arm bar by using your left knee as leverage).

Ah! Thank you, maybe it should've been obvious, but I totally missed that!

[sanjuro_ronin]

The thing is the core principle of the throw/sweep.
As long as you know WHEN and HOW to apply it, the occasion will present itself.
Never, ever go looking for a throw.
Let the occasion dictate the throw.

[Faux Newbie]

The thing is the core principle of the throw/sweep.
As long as you know WHEN and HOW to apply it, the occasion will present itself.
Never, ever go looking for a throw.
Let the occasion dictate the throw.

Which, am I correct to say, if you understand the when and how, you can create the circumstances in some cases that allow the when and how to occur?

I'm not sure that sentence is even English.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Which, am I correct to say, if you understand the when and how, you can create the circumstances in some cases that allow the when and how to occur?

I'm not sure that sentence is even English.

Well, I have this to say to you good sir:
http://prem1.hiboox.com/images/3012/8966ddc38d6e03fa96c1e4fc173142ce.gif

[Faux Newbie]

Well, I have this to say to you good sir:
http://prem1.hiboox.com/images/3012/8966ddc38d6e03fa96c1e4fc173142ce.gif

She's clearly preparing to do an ankle lock. Totally not a reap.

[GoldenBrain]

Am I correct that we're assuming left leg lead stance (orthodox stance) in this description?

Yes, that's correct. Sorry, I should have also explained the footwork with a bit more detail.

[Faux Newbie]

Hey FN, err KC,

I'm newish, but I've read a bunch through the years, however I can't remember if you like to troll so I hope I'm not setting myself up here. Ah well, who cares, I'll play along anyway.

I like to use outer reap from striking but it's a bit of a bridge so here is my method… If opponent throws a straight right, you check with left hand, deflect with right hand with palm up like holding a tray. We call it bear slap for the check and willow tree for the deflection. After the right hand deflection turn that hand over and step in like you are shinning but instead use it as a reap. You can either grab the throat or clothesline with the right hand and sweep back with the right foot.

I like to use this to setup a choke rather than a reap though because there's more control after the takedown. At the point where you are about to sweep just do a 180 so your facing the same direction and use the right arm you are clotheslining with to wrap around the neck, plant your left hand behind the head and use left leg to knee them up in the air a bit, step back, then blood choke them when their ass hits the ground.

I think I follow. Am i correct that, if one preferred, you could maintain control of the attacking arm at the end? I'll have to mess around with this.

[GoldenBrain]

I think I follow. Am i correct that, if one preferred, you could maintain control of the attacking arm at the end? I'll have to mess around with this.

For the outer reap over the arm no. When you deflect with the right hand you can either keep the palm down, grab and pull the arm, then reap or palm up and still pull or rather guide the arm with the back of the hand and then reap. Either way you basically let go of the arm when you throw them to the ground. For me the follow up on this one is to stomp, run away or drop on top of them and use grappling techniques and/or strikes from the ground.

If you use outer reap and go in under the arm then arm control to the ground can be maintained.

If you are going around for the choke then the control to the ground is their head. I think a blood choke works best for this. If the technique is done correctly you should already be grabbing for the blood choke while they are dropping to the ground. It's lights out pretty quickly if you are able to lock them down with your knee in their back and shoulder tight to the back of their head. An experienced or game fighter can escape this if your not tight enough so be prepared to stay on or retake their back and go for a more standard rear naked choke.

While I'm on chokes I'll talk about a variation of the rear naked I like to use. It's a one handed version that you can use if you have them wrapped up with your legs and one of their arms pinned under one of your legs. In this instance you can use just one hand to apply the choke. Instead of wrapping your hand around your arm you hug in close and wrap your hand around the back of your neck like you're giving yourself a half nelson. Then just lean your head back to apply the choke and use your free hand to block their free hand.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

The thing is the core principle of the throw/sweep.
As long as you know WHEN and HOW to apply it, the occasion will present itself.
Never, ever go looking for a throw.
Let the occasion dictate the throw.

This is very true. Often times when doing San Shou training I notice other people and myself included looking for that throw, which often leads to telegraphing it. One of my favorites is hip throw from under-over lock which can be set up nice from a punch kick flurry that ends up in clinch or body lock, or from counter striking your opponent and ending up in this same position.

IMO, throws come more naturally if you execute when they present themself, and I feel this even more so in San Shou. Not to say that jacket wrestling or greco this isn't the case, but in those rule sets you don't have to worry about getting punched or kicked.

[bawang]

The thing is the core principle of the throw/sweep.
As long as you know WHEN and HOW to apply it, the occasion will present itself.
Never, ever go looking for a throw.
Let the occasion dictate the throw.

dat bullshiet mang. just pick him up mang. TRONG

[MightyB]

I don't troll in the 'use the internet as an excuse to turn random people into my own entertainment like some passive aggressive coward sociopath', but I occasionally joke around.

Thanks for the reply, I'll have to read it more closely tomorrow!

You mean I'm not supposed to use the internet as an excuse to turn random people into my own entertainment like some passive aggressive coward sociopath. :eek:

I've been internetting all wrong!!!

[MightyB]

The thing is the core principle of the throw/sweep.
As long as you know WHEN and HOW to apply it, the occasion will present itself.
Never, ever go looking for a throw.
Let the occasion dictate the throw.

I disagree. If you're really good at throwing, you look for the opportunity to throw whenever possible.

[madhusudan]

If it is time to throw, it happens. Technique is dictated by your intent and the situation as it presents itself.

[YouKnowWho]

I disagree. If you're really good at throwing, you look for the opportunity to throw whenever possible.

Agree with MightyB on this. It's better to "create" your opportunity than to "wait" for your opponent to arrive. Since your "rooting leg" position can decide whether your "attacking leg" will be able to reach to your opponent's leg or not. You have to watch your opponent's forward foot position and coordinate your footwork with it.

The worse nightmare for a grappler is when your opponent gives you a throwing opportunity, your hands and feet are not at the right position and at the right time. The moment that you have readjust your hands and feet position, that opportunity is gone.

The "front cut" is very easy to set up. All you need is a left arm downward parry on your opponent's leading arm, followed by an arm wrap (spin your opponent's arm and then catch it on the other end), also use your other arm to "comb hair" and deflect your opponent's other arm. But you have to drill this kind of set up to the death in order to be good at it. The nice thing about this set up is you can integrate it into your daily walking. Every time that after my 4 miles running on the beach, I would walk 2 miles and train both "front cut" foot work and arms set up. This way I won't feel guilty by doing running for "health" only.

[Faux Newbie]

For the outer reap over the arm no. When you deflect with the right hand you can either keep the palm down, grab and pull the arm, then reap or palm up and still pull or rather guide the arm with the back of the hand and then reap. Either way you basically let go of the arm when you throw them to the ground. For me the follow up on this one is to stomp, run away or drop on top of them and use grappling techniques and/or strikes from the ground.

If you use outer reap and go in under the arm then arm control to the ground can be maintained.

If you are going around for the choke then the control to the ground is their head. I think a blood choke works best for this. If the technique is done correctly you should already be grabbing for the blood choke while they are dropping to the ground. It's lights out pretty quickly if you are able to lock them down with your knee in their back and shoulder tight to the back of their head. An experienced or game fighter can escape this if your not tight enough so be prepared to stay on or retake their back and go for a more standard rear naked choke.

While I'm on chokes I'll talk about a variation of the rear naked I like to use. It's a one handed version that you can use if you have them wrapped up with your legs and one of their arms pinned under one of your legs. In this instance you can use just one hand to apply the choke. Instead of wrapping your hand around your arm you hug in close and wrap your hand around the back of your neck like you're giving yourself a half nelson. Then just lean your head back to apply the choke and use your free hand to block their free hand.

Even after you confirmed that this was from orthodox stance, I was still thinking of southpaw. I'm caught up now!

Thanks!

[Faux Newbie]

You mean I'm not supposed to use the internet as an excuse to turn random people into my own entertainment like some passive aggressive coward sociopath. :eek:

I've been internetting all wrong!!!

Not entirely wrong. Just not as right as me.

[GoldenBrain]

Even after you confirmed that this was from orthodox stance, I was still thinking of southpaw. I'm caught up now!

Thanks!

No problem. You know though, it can really be from either stance. If you are in southpaw you just use a triangle stepping to slip to the outside and you will be in orthodox. From orthodox you can just launch off your right (back) foot on a 45 to the outside. That's the beauty of this type of stepping. You can go from inside to outside to inside to outside very easily. Step-check-deflect-strike…etc. I've gotten to the point that my triangle stepping just kind of floats in the air from one stance (orthodox/southpaw) to the other. That sounded weird so I'll try explaining it this way… I kind of just hop from right foot lead to left foot lead on 45 degree angles. Anywhoo, I'm sure you get it.

[Faux Newbie]

No problem. You know though, it can really be from either stance. If you are in southpaw you just use a triangle stepping to slip to the outside and you will be in orthodox. From orthodox you can just launch off your right (back) foot on a 45 to the outside. That's the beauty of this type of stepping. You can go from inside to outside to inside to outside very easily. Step-check-deflect-strike…etc. I've gotten to the point that my triangle stepping just kind of floats in the air from one stance (orthodox/southpaw) to the other. That sounded weird so I'll try explaining it this way… I kind of just hop from right foot lead to left foot lead on 45 degree angles. Anywhoo, I'm sure you get it.

Oh yeah, I know what you mean. I was more picturing you doing it from one stance, but with the opposite to the hand work you were actually describing.