Repetition

[Faux Newbie]

1) In training, I remember spending a lot of time doing repetitions of a move, like X number of spear thrusts, whatever.

I think the greatest progress I made after that came from realizing that the only one that counted in regards to how I use the move was the first one. All the rest were a part of a pattern that had been reinforced, only the first one reflected the real move how I do it without rehearsal.

So I broke up all patterns with footwork, and moved away from doing large numbers, focusing on quality, what was wrong with it and how to fix it.

2) In focusing on repetition, I always took to the idea that if you do something a bunch of times, you will become good at it and all problems with it will go away. In time, I felt that it was better to count on knowledge to improve a move than repetition. Once the move was understood well, repetition over time will make that move natural, but repetition alone isn't enough.

3) Scotch

[GeneChing]

3) Scotch
Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat :)

[Faux Newbie]

Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat :)

Only the first scotch counts.

[David Jamieson]

Only the first scotch counts.

Yeah, but it's the last one that leaves you naked on the front lawn with only 1 sock on.

You don't even know why you put the sock on there, but the scotch knows....the scotch knows....

[Faux Newbie]

This is why I always keep an extra sock.

[GeneChing]

Don't make me repeat myself

http://media3.onsugar.com/files/2013/10/23/053/n/1922195/c7c808044fa4a167_tumblr_m561u7OsqF1qcb58yo1_500.gi f

[Faux Newbie]

Who hasn't killed a man with a trident?

Who?

[wenshu]

Yeah, but it's the last one that leaves you naked on the front lawn with only 1 sock on.

After getting 86'd from the bar for peeing in the sink in the ladies restroom.

[YouKnowWho]

2) In focusing on repetition, ...
Some old teacher would require his students to repeat hip throw solo drill 250 times non-stop. You should repeat a drill for at least 100 times non-stop. If you pick up 20 drills, that will require you to repeat 2,000 times. That will be a good "solo" workout when partner is not available.

[Scott R. Brown]

When I was in my early 20's I would do somewhere around 1,000 kicks a day 5 days a week.

[Faux Newbie]

Some old teacher would require his students to repeat hip throw solo drill 250 times non-stop. You should repeat a drill for at least 100 times non-stop. If you pick up 20 drills, that will require you to repeat 2,000 times. That will be a good "solo" workout when partner is not available.

I've just found I learn a move better if instead of repeating it from the end of the last repetition, I change up the conditions.

The logic is that, when doing a pattern, you end up more doing the pattern than what move is in the pattern.

What I tend to do, if I'm working a move, is do it while doing footwork. Not unusual footwork, but just small steps in various directions. As I shuffle into the step, then I initiate the technique, then resume guard and continue doing shuffling footwork, and apply the move after stepping in a different direction. This way, there is no pattern that I've rehearsed, my angle to the imaginary opponent has changed, etc.

My main problem with patterned repetition is seen in a lot of footage of chain punch.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with repetition, but that, if it is a pattern, the pattern becomes the focus more than the move. In doing a hundred chain punches, the wingchun practitioner has practiced spontaneously chain punching once, and chain punching off of chain punching ninety-nine times. There is a difference between the two, I find.

I break up all repetition with shuffling footwork in order to make sure that I can arrive at the move from all relevant angles, and this seems to allow me to ingrain the move a lot faster.

Obviously, you need to get enough of the body mechanics down first, but even this is influenced by breaking the pattern with footwork, because doing a move off of itself is not the same as doing the move initially.

[Scott R. Brown]

The key for me was to break the kicks down into smaller sections. I had roughly 10 sections and each section had 6 different kicks. Each section had the same 6 basic kicks, but was a variation of each kick and each section was progressively more difficult.

[YouKnowWho]

I've just found I learn a move better if instead of repeating it from the end of the last repetition, I change up the conditions.
At the end of your drill you reset yourself back to the initial fighting stance. That just add 1 extra move (if you only have to re-adjust your leading foot) or 2 extra moves (if you have re-adjust both feet) into your original drill. The advantage of this is you always start from a combat ready stance. The draw back for this is these extra steps may make your drill unnecessary complicate.

[Scott R. Brown]

Actually, I just did the math more comprehensively, it was something like 15 sections and somewhere between 1500 and 2500 kicks. Of course I worked up to it.

[Faux Newbie]

The key for me was to break the kicks down into smaller sections. I had roughly 10 sections and each section had 6 different kicks. Each section had the same 6 basic kicks, but was a variation of each kick and each section was progressively more difficult.

I think one of the reasons I get more out of breaking moves up with shuffling footwork is that I get more out of shadowboxing with a move than repeating it as isolated from normal fight related footwork, and so, by immediately associating the move with my normal footwork, it more quickly makes it into my shadow boxing and sparring.

If it is in my shadow boxing and sparring, I do not need to do 1000 repetitions of it, because over time, since I shadow box every time I train, I will do it in context far more than that in the long run, and in association with my overall fighting.

Of course, the first day will be awkward, the second will be like an automaton compared to moves I've gotten used to, but even with 1000 repetitions, someone else will have this same issue in shadow boxing that move.

I tend toward a holistic approach, where I do need to isolate the body mechanics of a move, but also need to do it in shadow boxing so I have a strong sense of the different issues that come up, which helps in isolating the body mechanics. Without this, if waiting to do 10000 reps before shadow boxing with a move, all the issues that shadow boxing reveals will show issues I could have realized earlier, and I'll find myself having lost time.

Same with slow form versus fast form. False Dichotomy, neither can be good by putting off the other.

This is my opinion, of course.

[GeneChing]

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1379309_10151974630244363_2030145682_n.jpg From my article Out of the Mouth of Babes (SEP+OCT 2013 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=1113))

[Faux Newbie]

At the end of your drill you reset yourself back to the initial fighting stance. That just add 1 extra move (if you only have to re-adjust your leading foot) or 2 extra moves (if you have re-adjust both feet) into your original drill. The advantage of this is you always start from a combat ready stance. The draw back for this is these extra steps may make your drill unnecessary complicate.

I follow that, I just feel that always starting from a static fighting stance is like always doing a self defense application at exactly the right distance (the typical, two people at exactly the right range, one punches without moving, the other does the application). When doing moves from lively footwork, the move is in its exact context, and the footwork is alive. When the only footwork is in the technique, the context changes, and the pairing of footwork and technique coming from normal footwork is delayed.

I've just had a lot more success with this approach, and with teaching this way, than with raw repetition. The beginning of the learning curve is more difficult, but after a few sessions, the progress is, imo, faster and involves the practitioner understanding the move better, and thus, able to benefit from repeated practice more.

[Scott R. Brown]

At the time my goal was to see just how good I could become with my kicks. At my best, before a leg injury side lined me, I could open kitchen cupboards with my feet, block hand strikes with my feet during sparring, and stand on the tip of either big toe while holding the other leg up in a vertical split.
After the year and a half it took me to heal from my injury I never had the time or discipline to get my kicks back to that level.

[Faux Newbie]

At the time my goal was to see just how good I could become with my kicks. At my best, before a leg injury side lined me, I could open kitchen cupboards with my feet, block hand strikes with my feet during sparring, and stand on the tip of either big toe while holding the other leg up in a vertical split.
After the year and a half it took me to heal from my injury I never had the time or discipline to get my kicks back to that level.

Injuries suck.

[Scott R. Brown]

Injuries suck.

I am injury prone. I have had a major injury of some kind almost continuously for tbe past 35 or so years. :(

The only joints I have never injured are my knees, and that's a miracle seeing as I'm bow-legged.

[Kellen Bassette]

Actually, I just did the math more comprehensively, it was something like 15 sections and somewhere between 1500 and 2500 kicks. Of course I worked up to it.

That'll get the legs burning...

[Scott R. Brown]

That'll get the legs burning...

When I was done, I wold run 4 miles stretch for 1-2 hours and do a little bit of weights and chins.

Oh to be young again and have nothing but free time to train.

What I did to beat the monotony was to train 5 out of every 7 days. My training week ran from Monday to Sunday. If I took Monday and Tuesday off I wasn't allowed to miss another day til after Sunday. But I could take any two days off every week.