Horse Stance

[Shaolindynasty]

Inspired by some of the comments I've seen on this forum I the past, I put this video together to express some thoughts I had on the subject and demo how the horse stance is commonly used in our school. This is an explanation of this particular stance as used in our system, feel free to compare and discuss the methods used in your own systems.


http://youtu.be/1hTD6Ab-b50

[Subitai]

HOW Dare you SIR?!!!!

How dare you try to explain ways to make your Trad. KF more functional!!??? Didn't you expect an onslaught of posts to follow you describing how that is a dead endeavor? Especially on this forum? Some might even realize that it's all a part of training and everything comes full circle throughout one's career. Is that part of your message?

Didn't you expect the classic queries:
But can it be done in the ring vs a live resisting opponent? Can you do it vs. the "best of the best" and not just joe schmoes on the street?

Lastly, have you ever used this skill in real street fight? Did it help to save you at all or does that not matter?


Hmm, thanks for posting that. I would have never thought to make this chop suey stuff try to work in that fashion.

[Shaolindynasty]

Actually HOW DARE YOU sir,

how dare you enter several nhb bare knuckle events in their early days and use traditional kung fu techniques in that way.

didn't you expect the classic arguments such as, I don't see any hung ga used there or don't you know real traditional kung fu masters would never put their skills on display in such a barbaric show of ego, or do you understand that while you may have got away with using hung ga in the early ufc todays fighters are much better and something silly like hung ga could never be used today?:D

Thanks for posting your comment I would have never thought that people would argue with me on this forum hahaha

[bawang]

"dai sei ping" "sei ping dai ma" is a rarely used fighting stance. higher stance is just "sei ping"

[Kellen Bassette]

I frequently use horse stance in sparring to stuff takedowns. There is no need to sprawl unless the shot is deep, if it isn't, or if you can stuff it at the beginning, there is no reason to go straight to a more compromised position.

[Orion Paximus]

I frequently use horse stance in sparring to stuff takedowns. There is no need to sprawl unless the shot is deep, if it isn't, or if you can stuff it at the beginning, there is no reason to go straight to a more compromised position.

agree x infinity

[YouKnowWho]

feel free to compare and discuss the methods used in your own systems.
In my system, I don't use horse stance that wide.

What's the proper width of your horse stance? You have to test it from 2 different angles. When you stand in horse stance, ask your opponent to

- "sweep" your leg from outside in, and
- "spring" your leg from inside out.

If you feel that you can have the same amount of resistence, your horse stance will be on the right width. If you feel that your stance is

- strong to against "sweep" but weak to against "spring", your stance is too wide.
- strong to against "spring" but weak to against "sweep", your stance is too narrow.

Usually the right width is about the shoulder width.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Well Said!!!!

My only critique is that I would have added examples of takedowns and how the horse stance is used to accomplish them.

[YouKnowWho]

Well Said!!!!

My only critique is that I would have added examples of takedowns and how the horse stance is used to accomplish them.

The "hip throw" (or "embracing throw") will be the best example. If your right foot is infront (or behind) of your opponent's right foot, your left foot is infront (or behind) of your opponent's left foot, a too wide horse stance is not proper.

http://imageshack.us/a/img849/1605/embrace1.jpg

[Shaolindynasty]

My horse stance is the proper width for what its used for in my system.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

The "hip throw" (or "embracing throw") will be the best example. If your right foot is infront (or behind) of your opponent's right foot, your left foot is infront (or behind) of your opponent's left foot, a too wide horse stance is not proper.

http://imageshack.us/a/img849/1605/embrace1.jpg

You can also plow through them from a 45 entry, and seasaw them over your thigh. It's one of my favorites actually. I do it with a bowstance and sometimes use an empty stance to help break up thier structure right before I do the take down too. These all use deep wide horse stances as you are basically setting up your base underneath them as a structure destroying fulcrum to take them over.

[YouKnowWho]

My horse stance is the proper width for what its used for in my system.
I just try to point out that the wide horse stance is strong to deal with foot sweep and double leg, but it's weak to deal with leg spring and single leg.

[Shaolindynasty]

I just try to point out that the wide horse stance is strong to deal with foot sweep and double leg, but it's weak to deal with leg spring and single leg.

I understand what you are saying.
it's important to know the strengths and weakness of each position. No single stance or technique is the answer to every situation. for instance if the opponent is directly in front of me facing me chest to chest, a weak position for the horse stance as stated in the video, I wouldn't even use horse stance. I would rather use angles to find a stronger position and counter instead of trying to stand firm and struggle against the opponents attempt at whatever attack he is using.

[dcrjradmonish]

Grand Master Arthur Lee once said on one of his instructor video that if you go to low in your horse stance you let the chi out or disrupt it can't exactly remember the exact quote. When I was training on my own I got in the habit of trying to go as low as I could in horse stance. Then I started ying jow pai for a little while and my sifu would tell me to bring horse stance up. Have any of you ever here of disrupting the chi in any way going to low in your horse stance?

[maxattck]

Grand Master Arthur Lee once said on one of his instructor video that if you go to low in your horse stance you let the chi out or disrupt it can't exactly remember the exact quote. When I was training on my own I got in the habit of trying to go as low as I could in horse stance. Then I started ying jow pai for a little while and my sifu would tell me to bring horse stance up. Have any of you ever here of disrupting the chi in any way going to low in your horse stance?

CHI really, are you kidding me. This is what is wrong with non contact MA. Delusional.

[bawang]

modern mma uses correct principles of the horse stance.

[Kellen Bassette]

modern mma uses correct principles of the horse stance.

It amazes me that people don't recognize it...for some folks, if you don't pose with it, they never even saw it being applied.

[GoldenBrain]

Grand Master Arthur Lee once said on one of his instructor video that if you go to low in your horse stance you let the chi out or disrupt it can't exactly remember the exact quote. When I was training on my own I got in the habit of trying to go as low as I could in horse stance. Then I started ying jow pai for a little while and my sifu would tell me to bring horse stance up. Have any of you ever here of disrupting the chi in any way going to low in your horse stance?

I have heard this. My understand is that when you go too low you loose the power. I guess this is the same as loosing the chi. Not sure how it's lost but I think it's just another cultures way of describing said power loss. Try to perform a hip toss with too low or too high of a horse stance and I believe this will become instantly apparent. Also if you duck foot too much, which is my way of saying you are pointing your toes out and heels in, you are loosing the power that your dug in heels provide. Power comes from the earth through the heels, up the legs...to the opponent and back down the chain so if you are out of alignment you won't have the power. Well, that's my country bumpkin way of describing it.

[GoldenBrain]

modern mma uses correct principles of the horse stance.


It amazes me that people don't recognize it...for some folks, if you don't pose with it, they never even saw it being applied.

Ooooh, I like this multiple quote option in the new forum. :D

I agree with this. What do people think when they see a fighter throw somebody, or sprawl? They have to get into some level of a horse stance for these two examples as well as many others. The MMA fighter uses squats, lunges…many many many other exercises to develop their horse stance. Guess what, so does a good kung fu fighter!

[Graculus]

Originally Posted by dcrjradmonish
Grand Master Arthur Lee once said on one of his instructor video that if you go to low in your horse stance you let the chi out or disrupt it can't exactly remember the exact quote. When I was training on my own I got in the habit of trying to go as low as I could in horse stance. Then I started ying jow pai for a little while and my sifu would tell me to bring horse stance up. Have any of you ever here of disrupting the chi in any way going to low in your horse stance?

Yes, this is correct... it's not some mystical nonsense, but simple mechanics (something that is ignored by many).

If you have been taught how to use the legs to help power your strikes, it should be obvious – explaining it in writing is a bit more difficult. If the feet and legs are to provide any degree of support or strength to a strike, the 'line of force' should go down through the hips, down through the legs, and into the ground. If the stance is too low, the force will run parallel to the ground, or even upwards, from the hips to the knees.

If this is happening, you are losing potential power, and you are wasting some of that potential power by keeping yourself in an artificially low position.

Thus you are losing or disrupting the flow of chi – it helps to think of chi as structural mechanics rather than 'energy' or some kind of golden vapor floating around the body.

Graculus
http://www.ichijoji.blogspot.com