XBox One or PS4 [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

David Jamieson

12-12-2013, 12:42 PM

Consoles are on their way out. Few more years and your TV will just be a PC. The console and computer world will completely merge.

Also, optical drives are useless. Does anyone here ever use a CD/DVD/BluRay anymore?

If you hand me a disk, I will have a similar reaction as if you just handed me an audio cassette. WTF am I gonna do with that?

Consoles are not on the way out. They are just getting started into next gen. I do agree, integrated systems will be the way in the future though.
Optical drives aren't useless, they are still a standard for archival storage actually. Also, I have a movie collection on DVDs that I use my player for regularly.
It costs nothing to watch these. It costs very little to download. I don't find the line up to be good on my tv (too many ads) netflix has a lot of shows, but you have to pay.
If you hand me a disk? I'm looking to see what's on it! lol

Come on, it's not all doom and gloom. :)

wenshu

12-12-2013, 01:20 PM

Consoles are on their way out.

Nope. Don't underestimate the fan bases. XBone sold 2 million consoles in just a little over 2 weeks, PS4 something like 8 days? PS4 sold 1 million units in 24 hours in the US alone while XBone was released in several regions simultaneously.The PC Gaming market can't even begin to touch those numbers. Consoles aren't going anywhere. If anything they'll just be made more open: http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/

Few more years and your TV will just be a PC.

Already is.

http://www.samsung.com/us/2013-smart-tv/

Syn7

12-12-2013, 02:14 PM

Consoles are not on the way out. They are just getting started into next gen. I do agree, integrated systems will be the way in the future though.
Optical drives aren't useless, they are still a standard for archival storage actually. Also, I have a movie collection on DVDs that I use my player for regularly.
It costs nothing to watch these. It costs very little to download. I don't find the line up to be good on my tv (too many ads) netflix has a lot of shows, but you have to pay.
If you hand me a disk? I'm looking to see what's on it! lol

Come on, it's not all doom and gloom. :)

Not doom and gloom. I think it's a good thing. One box does all. It's an engineers wet dream. We will have a centralized hub and satellite terminals wherever we want.

As for your DVD's, why not rip em? put em on a hard drive. Two if you're paranoid. I can see why you wouldn't wanna use flash drives for backup, but a hard disk? It's all good. The only reason why they are still a storage standard is because people change slow. Usually when they do come around it's forced. Doesn't matter. They can resist all they want, but eventually they all get steamrolled or left behind like that crazy uncle who insists his a-track sounds better than any other medium.

Nope. Don't underestimate the fan bases. XBone sold 2 million consoles in just a little over 2 weeks, PS4 something like 8 days? PS4 sold 1 million units in 24 hours in the US alone while XBone was released in several regions simultaneously.The PC Gaming market can't even begin to touch those numbers. Consoles aren't going anywhere. If anything they'll just be made more open: http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/

Already is.

http://www.samsung.com/us/2013-smart-tv/

About the TV's, I meant all of them. What I mentioned to david is already a thing, people just need to catch up now. You'll see it with cars soon too. People will fear the self driving car when in fact it will reduce gas consumption, accidents and travel time for all. But people will find all sorts of things to ***** about. Eventually they will have no choice but to come around.

Mark my words. They will integrate. It's done. All we have to do is wait and see now. I said it, I stand by it. Sure, people are brand *****s and fear change, but they won't have a choice. All that will be left are throw back open source projects. Kinda like how kids are making 303's these days. It's a ****ty tool, but people feel cool being all retro and ****.

Syn7

12-12-2013, 02:16 PM

They will also get more and more intrusive.

SoCo KungFu

12-12-2013, 02:26 PM

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SoCo KungFu

12-12-2013, 02:30 PM

wenshu

12-12-2013, 03:15 PM

About the TV's, I meant all of them. What I mentioned to david is already a thing, people just need to catch up now. You'll see it with cars soon too. People will fear the self driving car when in fact it will reduce gas consumption, accidents and travel time for all. But people will find all sorts of things to ***** about. Eventually they will have no choice but to come around.

Mark my words. They will integrate. It's done. All we have to do is wait and see now. I said it, I stand by it. Sure, people are brand *****s and fear change, but they won't have a choice. All that will be left are throw back open source projects.

You're completely ignoring the main reason people buy consoles in the first place: games. Video games are a $100 billion a year business and an integrated pc/tv isn't going to disrupt it. The Triple A development shops invest time and money developing for platforms they know will move units. That means MS and Sony. That means investing hundreds of millions of $$ in recruiting and training developers, designers & QA who are seasoned on those platforms. Just because it's possible to put a pc in a tv doesn't mean jack **** when the entire market is built around maximizing profit on the current platforms and to disrupt that would take a monumental shift in technology orders of magnitude greater than a smart tv.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdh4TqWFfX4

wenshu

12-12-2013, 03:29 PM

Why are theses new consoles ridiculous? Because you can spend as many hundreds you want on a do it all device, but you still need a cable/satellite box. Integration will only go so far as the market forces will allow. So long as you must find a provider for such services, these integrated consoles/tv's will never be more than an expensive novelty without much real function.

Somewhat related: Several years ago someone was distributing hacked cable modems that allowed you to bypass ISP's MAC control authentication layer and connect directly to the network node. It was literally as easy as buying the modem and if you had cable tv, plugging it into the cable socket and internet. It was a pretty big deal and I think he did some time for it after the feds shut him down.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/06/how-the-angel-helped-15000-people-steal-broadband/

Syn7

12-12-2013, 06:55 PM

You're completely ignoring the main reason people buy consoles in the first place: games. Video games are a $100 billion a year business and an integrated pc/tv isn't going to disrupt it. The Triple A development shops invest time and money developing for platforms they know will move units. That means MS and Sony. That means investing hundreds of millions of $$ in recruiting and training developers, designers & QA who are seasoned on those platforms. Just because it's possible to put a pc in a tv doesn't mean jack **** when the entire market is built around maximizing profit on the current platforms and to disrupt that would take a monumental shift in technology orders of magnitude greater than a smart tv.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdh4TqWFfX4

And you're ignoring that there is no reason why that capability can't(and already is) integrated into other systems. Look at the PC vs. Console war. It's dumb, but it shows there is a market for both. If one unit can serve both, it will be how things end up. Just how it is. You wanna talk about maximizing profit? It's all about integration. Always has been, always will be. Less overhead, more money. The games will still cost. The units will be adjusted to include the cost of console style gaming integrated into one unit. Non gamers will pay for gaming they don't use and gamers will pay for features they don't use. This "monumental" shift in technology is already here. Has been for a few years now. Now we just need the consumer to catch up. When they do, the next thing will already be a real thing and they will have more catching up to do. It never ends. Again, just how it is. Gamers world wide freaked out over xbox one because it isn't just about gaming, yet they had black friday riots to get em anyways. It is what it is. I respect your opinion, but I disagree. Again, time will tell. But I am right. :p

Syn7

12-12-2013, 07:04 PM

Somewhat related: Several years ago someone was distributing hacked cable modems that allowed you to bypass ISP's MAC control authentication layer and connect directly to the network node. It was literally as easy as buying the modem and if you had cable tv, plugging it into the cable socket and internet. It was a pretty big deal and I think he did some time for it after the feds shut him down.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/06/how-the-angel-helped-15000-people-steal-broadband/

Same thing happened with pay cable. I had a tuner that unscrambled the pay channels when I was like 14. Highly illegal. Lasted about 15 years till the industry created new standards to fix that lil problem.

Cable is dead anyways. Which goes back to my integration theories. Buying channels will only last as long as those invested can hold out and obstruct progress. But eventually they get steamrolled too. Those who resist the change will never win, just delay the inevitable.

We are in the beginning stages of a new economic model as far as entertainment is concerned. It will be interesting to see how long they hold on to the old and what the new will be.

When I was younger, you would get a chunk of cash fronted from a record label, then you owed that money plus all other costs associated with promotion etc etc. Then the indies came. Changed the game. Internet came, people learned music can be free. We are at a major crossroads.

wenshu

12-12-2013, 08:26 PM

And you're ignoring that there is no reason why that capability can't(and already is) integrated into other systems. Look at the PC vs. Console war. It's dumb, but it shows there is a market for both. If one unit can serve both, it will be how things end up. Just how it is. You wanna talk about maximizing profit? It's all about integration. Always has been, always will be. Less overhead, more money. The games will still cost. The units will be adjusted to include the cost of console style gaming integrated into one unit. Non gamers will pay for gaming they don't use and gamers will pay for features they don't use. This "monumental" shift in technology is already here. Has been for a few years now. Now we just need the consumer to catch up. When they do, the next thing will already be a real thing and they will have more catching up to do. It never ends. Again, just how it is. Gamers world wide freaked out over xbox one because it isn't just about gaming, yet they had black friday riots to get em anyways. It is what it is. I respect your opinion, but I disagree. Again, time will tell. But I am right. :p

You realize that consoles are computers right?

You're not even making a real argument anymore.

Syn7

12-12-2013, 09:19 PM

You realize that consoles are computers right?

You're not even making a real argument anymore.

Is that a serious question?

Anyways. We'll have to wait and see, I guess. I know I'm right tho. It's already in full swing. "Purists" will ***** and whine(as they always do), but it's happening anyways. Purely gaming consoles are already dead and only a small fraction of gamers will "stay retro".

Raipizo

12-13-2013, 12:06 AM

Nope. Don't underestimate the fan bases. XBone sold 2 million consoles in just a little over 2 weeks, PS4 something like 8 days? PS4 sold 1 million units in 24 hours in the US alone while XBone was released in several regions simultaneously.The PC Gaming market can't even begin to touch those numbers. Consoles aren't going anywhere. If anything they'll just be made more open: http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/

Already is.

http://www.samsung.com/us/2013-smart-tv/

You don't need a new computer every few years to play he newest games. My pc has parts from 08 and still plays most games that are put out. Unless you buy store bought but a lot of people know how to build pcs anymore it just makes sense to me. I have a ps3 and xbox360 but I honestly don't care about any of the new consoles basically anything I want to play comes out on pc anyway. It's just easier to connect with others on a pc vs console and I find most of my friends have pc and not the newer consoles. Everything has their advantages. Xboxs' is spying on you with a webcam and ps3 has your credit card info displayed to the public :p lol.

wenshu

12-13-2013, 05:12 PM

Is that a serious question?

Anyways. We'll have to wait and see, I guess. I know I'm right tho. It's already in full swing. "Purists" will ***** and whine(as they always do), but it's happening anyways. Purely gaming consoles are already dead and only a small fraction of gamers will "stay retro".

Half serious. You can't specifically define what you're even talking about. If you were specifically making reference to SteamBox/SteamOS then okay maybe you'd be close to something beyond "technology, integration, soon, inevitable change, wait and see" but even that is just a console that will allow you to play some PC games which is really just a strategy for bringing PC games to the much larger casual consumer market and selling everything through downloads and streaming. There is a reason Valve is releasing their own hardware aka a "console": hardware fragmentation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragmentation_(programming)). It's a huge problem and its the chief reason why the majority of top selling triple A game titles are invariably developed for consoles exclusively and then ported to PC later. (Notable exceptions being some role playing and strategy niche properties). But your "argument" doesn't even approach nuance of any sort you just made an untenable vague generalization that 'consoles are dead'.

The majority of people sit on the couch surfing the web on tablets while their gaming console streams Netflix. Only those concerned with high performance gaming/simulation and graphics/video rendering will continue to support workstations, the average consumer market will shift almost exclusively to mobile and no one will go to a physical store to buy games or software anymore they'll just stream it.

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/26316/pc-market-to-bear-most-severe-yearly-contraction-on-record-in-2013

You don't need a new computer every few years to play he newest games. My pc has parts from 08 and still plays most games that are put out. Unless you buy store bought but a lot of people know how to build pcs anymore it just makes sense to me. I have a ps3 and xbox360 but I honestly don't care about any of the new consoles basically anything I want to play comes out on pc anyway. It's just easier to connect with others on a pc vs console and I find most of my friends have pc and not the newer consoles. Everything has their advantages. Xboxs' is spying on you with a webcam and ps3 has your credit card info displayed to the public :p lol.

This isn't about personal preference, I play both but much prefer PC gaming over consoles. This is about market forces and trying to disrupt the inertia of a business model that drives a nearly $100 billion/year industry.

SoCo KungFu

12-13-2013, 06:41 PM

Cable is dead anyways. Which goes back to my integration theories. Buying channels will only last as long as those invested can hold out and obstruct progress. But eventually they get steamrolled too. Those who resist the change will never win, just delay the inevitable.

We are in the beginning stages of a new economic model as far as entertainment is concerned. It will be interesting to see how long they hold on to the old and what the new will be.

You are aware that broadband is provided by the cable companies though yes? Both cable and internet subscriptions are dying. People are moving toward mobile devices and utilizing public wifi facilities. I do 90% of my interneting on campus in my office. Others use coffee shops, etc. Integration itself is a fad. At least with regards to set top boxes, tv's and traditional computing. Now its about smaller, lighter, mobile and where I can take it that will let me use it free (or at least as part of some other service I'm taking part in).

Syn7

12-13-2013, 07:02 PM

Sorry. I meant Cable TV subscriptions. It's a giant beast. It will go neither quickly, nor quietly. But it is done. Just a matter of time now. I wasn't suggesting that all the coax around us will be abandoned.

I hear you Wenshu. We'll see. We can keep going back and forth, but I have a decent idea of where you stand. Look at the differences between the xbox one and the 360. There is an obvious trend there. Maybe some other consoles will catch on, but not enough to change the direction. I'm no gaming expert, I couldn't possibly invest that kinda time into something like that. I like games, and play once in a while, but I'm mos def not a game junkie. But I do see the hardware trends. I'm not being specific because it's not something that is really being done yet, at least not on the scale I'm talking about. If I knew exactly what it would be and who was going to be on top of the heap for sure, I would get on the ground floor real fast.

bawang

12-16-2013, 09:38 AM

pee see is de futur

David Jamieson

12-16-2013, 01:28 PM

I honestly think we are a bunch of old shmucks thinking in old shmuck ways.
Who knows what the future will bring.
We can imagine. But we don't really know because of trends and what not.

Nobody has ever successfully integrated platforms, hardware etc.

Some have. Philips for instance with the CD and DVD technology.
The burner/reader is literally the same in every single device because of patents held by Philips.
USB as well, but to get around that, hardware manufacturers insist on making different size slots for chargers to device etc.

Greedy ass holes is WHY we don't have more integration and intuitive tech on the market.
That is the Number 1 reason why we still have these clunky chunks of spinning disks lying about.

SoCo KungFu

12-16-2013, 08:11 PM

Greedy ass holes is WHY we don't have more integration and intuitive tech on the market.
That is the Number 1 reason why we still have these clunky chunks of spinning disks lying about.

I wouldn't say its just that. The thing about computer tech is, if you try to make it do it all, it does none of it particularly well. This is why consoles still exist when there was a huge boom in computer gaming. Those PS4 specs you listed earlier are old news as far as computers go. But you'll never get a computer in the next 6-8 years at the same price point, to be able to compare with those specs. Because its more than just the hardware. A console is optimized for one thing (or at least they used to be), that was games. They could push all that power to that single purpose. A computer can't do that, there's too much going on in the background. Integration is not always the best thing. Of course, if I have the option (and the time, which is non-existent anymore), I always go pc. Because modders. Modders add life to any program, but esp games.

Integrated tv's suffer too. Thing about computers that do make them nice, is the ability to piece out things to upgrade. Try doing that with one of these smart tv's.

Syn7

12-17-2013, 12:01 AM

Lucas

12-17-2013, 02:53 PM

Playstation is a bit more powerful, but you are only going to see that in playstation exclusive games. Games on both consoles will run the same. I got both with the intent to keep the one i liked more and gift the other out.

I kept the xbox because of the versatility and superior network. The xbox live network has been well established for years now, while ps is coming into it with a new network after having their old crappy one hacked.

The kinect also trumps the ps camera, and the entertainment ability of xbox is far superior.

Thats what its all about anyway. Entertainment

I can be cleaning my house or writing or doing some other hand occupying task, and with my voice hop between music, movies, skype and the internet without having to use the controler. In fact i find that i use the xbox hands free more than with a remote control.

I think one would be happy with either however.

wenshu

12-17-2013, 06:40 PM

Who has time for the games these days anyways. I love those strategy games where you can play one scenario forever. But realistically, if I can't play it in a meaningful way in like an hour, I don't have time for that stuff. I have way better stuff to do with my time. Still, I enjoy to go on a mini binge every year or so, usually in the wet cold season where going outside sucks anyways. Just spend a weekend smoking pot and playing some new ****.

relevant
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/uxpil/ive_been_playing_the_same_game_of_civilization_ii

I'm actually the same way, I like to try out some new eye candy but I rarely play them all the way through. Maybe play one a handful of hours over a month at most before I get bored and move on. Still haven't beat GTA V and I loved that series. The only reason I can even justify parting with the cash anymore is professional curiosity.

Playstation is a bit more powerful, but you are only going to see that in playstation exclusive games. Games on both consoles will run the same. I got both with the intent to keep the one i liked more and gift the other out.

I kept the xbox because of the versatility and superior network. The xbox live network has been well established for years now, while ps is coming into it with a new network after having their old crappy one hacked.

The kinect also trumps the ps camera, and the entertainment ability of xbox is far superior.

Thats what its all about anyway. Entertainment

I can be cleaning my house or writing or doing some other hand occupying task, and with my voice hop between music, movies, skype and the internet without having to use the controler. In fact i find that i use the xbox hands free more than with a remote control.

I think one would be happy with either however.

Back to b's original question. Get the system that has or will have the games you want, aside from exclusives they all pretty much do the same ****. Thats why I'm waiting till next year for the software to catch up and in the meantime playing Mario bros with the wife and upgrading my graphics card.

wenshu

12-19-2013, 10:19 AM

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Steam+Machine+Teardown/20473

Drake

12-21-2013, 07:35 AM

I bought a PS4. And the ten minutes I have spent on it have been glorious.

I hope my next ten minutes I hope to get over the coming months are equally enjoyable.

SoCo KungFu

12-21-2013, 11:06 AM

I bought a PS4. And the ten minutes I have spent on it have been glorious.

I hope my next ten minutes I hope to get over the coming months are equally enjoyable.

Since I'm now off for the holidays, sort of, I have more free time to read random, less urgent stuff. I did read the other day, that for those who like to play online games, the Xbox is going to really restrict you compared to PS4. Restrict in that, you won't have the games at all. Apparently Microsoft has had a pretty long standing policy of not allowing online, cross platform, multi-player games on the Xbox Live network unless they have their own Xbox-only servers. While Sony has made no such requirement and PS3/PS4 players will be able to play such games alongside PC players. That's a bummer for any into those sorts of things. Especially since I think from looking at the stuff, a number of games coming out seem to be online multi-player. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't online integration sort of the whole point behind Microsoft's original policy of having to always online? Or was that simply to spy for NSA?

Enjoy your purchase. When I was a flight medic I bought a 360, because when you are always hopping a jet somewhere, and your duty time is in the air, there's not much else to do when you hit the ground. Looking back, a PS3 seems to have greater longevity. Hopefully you'll get a good 10 years or so out of the PS4. You might just get to play it when you retire.

Syn7

12-21-2013, 11:57 AM

Did anyone read Glenn Greenwald's more recent release from the Snowden docs? The stuff about gaming? Warcraft and all that.

wenshu

12-21-2013, 01:58 PM

Did anyone read Glenn Greenwald's more recent release from the Snowden docs? The stuff about gaming? Warcraft and all that.

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/431511/december-16-2013/nsa-video-game-surveillance

Lucas

12-21-2013, 04:02 PM

Thats old pre release paranoia rumor. You dont have to be online. A recent interview with a Microsoft exec producer eluded to cross system gaming, something that was beginning integration with some 360 games. But it doesnt really matter since there are millions of gamers on xbox live. Ive never seen a shortage of gamers to compete against. millions is a lot.

What drew me the most was xboxs unlimited budget for game designers. Meaning more exclusives. Plus all the games exclusive contracts. When it comes down to it microsoft has an abundance of resources beyond ps4. Thats why so many japanese designers are working for microsoft now.

by the time games actually need more power than is available on xboxone and ps4, you will see the next xbox system launch.

Syn7

12-21-2013, 06:31 PM

I remember reading that press release. They sure seemed serious to me. Didn't here about the changes till after the **** storm. There was also concerns about lending, trading and selling used games as well as some drama over firmware updates. Not sure where the dust settled.

SoCo KungFu

12-28-2013, 11:14 PM

http://www.ted.com/talks/jane_mcgonigal_the_game_that_can_give_you_10_extra _years_of_life.html

She's a game designer that has given TED talks in the past. Pretty interesting actually. I suppose game designer probably isn't a good title at this point. She's pretty well versed in psychology.

You may instantly draw a parallel though between her claims, and those claims of things like qigong healing. That should tell us something interesting about qigong... And people interested in that, should probably review a lot of her conceptual sources as well.

Edit: I just scrolled through some of the comments and some people made that same connection. Of course, the follow up is, what then would make qigong so special? Not a dig, though that may sound like one, especially coming from me.