View Full Version : Test your skill against other systems
YouKnowWho
12-31-2013, 06:33 PM
What's the value to only test your skill against people from your own system? Will it be better to test your skill against people from other systems?
Your thought?
Do both.
Test skill with your own system to develop your system's specialty to a high level.
Train with others to understand their strengths and specialties.
You have to develop your SC against others with high level SC skill, but then you want to know how non-SC will try to gain advantage.
YouKnowWho
12-31-2013, 07:50 PM
I like to wrestle with wrestlers more than Judo guys. The Judo guys just move too much like SC guys. I don't like to spar with longfist guys because I know pretty much what they will do. To me, if I spar/wrestle a guy who uses similar techniques as I do, there isn't much fun there. Without "fun", it defeats the purpose of TCMA training.
Dragonzbane76
12-31-2013, 08:11 PM
you should always try and seek out those in other areas to supplement. all the previous statements I agree with. Be well rounded, know the strengths of others and fight the fight you know. I've found that in the TCMA community in particular many try to think that what they are given is the know all answer to fighting. There are many other systems outside the TCMA community that fight in totally different perspectives, which have vast knowledge in the gaps found within. I'm not degrading TCMA I'm just saying that one should look over the end of their own nose and see that there is always more to learn from others.
Lee Chiang Po
12-31-2013, 08:45 PM
What's the value to only test your skill against people from your own system? Will it be better to test your skill against people from other systems?
Your thought?
Gung fu is a system that is supposed to give you an edge over an opponent. Fighting someone with your same skills can be difficult at best as he knows your moves too. In all my life I have never met another man that was trained in my fighting system, outside my own family. I tend to think it works best against other fighting systems, and most particularly against the untrained fellow that tends to want to box you. Everyone seems to have learned a few karate moves or some such, but only enough to get them into trouble. In about 40 years of using my skills I have not met anyone that was really trained to fight. I don't hang around gyms and dojos and kwoons either. In the 60's when I was in south vietnam I did meet a few mui thai fighters, but these little guys were a joke. I also knew some ROK guys that were into taikwando, but had no fear of them.
YouKnowWho
12-31-2013, 11:36 PM
Fighting someone with your same skills can be difficult at best as he knows your moves too.
When you spar people in your own style, since your opponent is also very familiar with your set up, it makes your move harder to apply. Even people in the same system may use different strategy too.
Kellen Bassette
01-01-2014, 07:08 AM
In about 40 years of using my skills I have not met anyone that was really trained to fight.
And we come to the heart of the problem. :)
Dragonzbane76
01-01-2014, 07:56 AM
In about 40 years of using my skills I have not met anyone that was really trained to fight
you are really full of yourself.
Two things
1. variation 2. combo
Even within the same system
It can be hard to deal with.
For example, there are five strikes in Tong bei. they are equated to five elements.
We do not do just one. Yes we may repeat the same strike left and right on and on.
We do two to three different strikes at top, mid and low back to back.
We may vary them in 24 ways or more randomly.
They are fakes, and set ups just to get close to throw.
For example, we do a right throw palm at top to invite the opponent to defend his top, while we introduce a left mid punch and low kick etc.
Our right throw palm may turn around to become a grab and pull hand.
Vary and combine your moves randomly.
On and on.
Change or vary your tactics and strategy with your moves even both you are in the same system.
Can be quite a challenge and fun.
:)
Robinhood
01-02-2014, 12:06 PM
What's the value to only test your skill against people from your own system? Will it be better to test your skill against people from other systems?
Your thought?
It depends on what you are trying to do, if you are ' trying to be stronger and faster, then other styles doing the same game will be benificial for your training.
sanjuro_ronin
01-02-2014, 12:07 PM
What's the value to only test your skill against people from your own system? Will it be better to test your skill against people from other systems?
Your thought?
Know your enemy.
sanjuro_ronin
01-02-2014, 12:08 PM
Gung fu is a system that is supposed to give you an edge over an opponent. Fighting someone with your same skills can be difficult at best as he knows your moves too. In all my life I have never met another man that was trained in my fighting system, outside my own family. I tend to think it works best against other fighting systems, and most particularly against the untrained fellow that tends to want to box you. Everyone seems to have learned a few karate moves or some such, but only enough to get them into trouble. In about 40 years of using my skills I have not met anyone that was really trained to fight. I don't hang around gyms and dojos and kwoons either. In the 60's when I was in south vietnam I did meet a few mui thai fighters, but these little guys were a joke. I also knew some ROK guys that were into taikwando, but had no fear of them.
It amazes me how you still try to sell yourself like this.
I admire your delusions !
They have quite the staying power.
lkfmdc
01-02-2014, 01:15 PM
you are really full of ****
fixed that for you
PalmStriker
01-02-2014, 01:23 PM
:D "Full of Stars?" Isn't that a line from 2001 A Space Odyssey?
Know your enemy.
Word....... Engaging a giant unknown is reckless. I like to think I'm smarter than that. When I was like 15 I read the art of war for the first time, and that was one part that really stuck with me. Coupled with choosing your moments, if you know what I mean. Patience, changing tactics frequently, knowing when to be aggressive and when to be passive etc etc...
But as far as sparring is concerned, I welcome any style, or no style at all. I like to test myself against anyone willing. Within reason, of course. It's always nice to get a reality check. It's all progress. Nothing more frustrating than being completely shut down by a grappler though. Getting punched out is refreshing compared to having some cat manhandle you but not really hurting you.
Gung fu is a system that is supposed to give you an edge over an opponent. Fighting someone with your same skills can be difficult at best as he knows your moves too. In all my life I have never met another man that was trained in my fighting system, outside my own family. I tend to think it works best against other fighting systems, and most particularly against the untrained fellow that tends to want to box you. Everyone seems to have learned a few karate moves or some such, but only enough to get them into trouble. In about 40 years of using my skills I have not met anyone that was really trained to fight. I don't hang around gyms and dojos and kwoons either. In the 60's when I was in south vietnam I did meet a few mui thai fighters, but these little guys were a joke. I also knew some ROK guys that were into taikwando, but had no fear of them.
if you ever get over to the uk i'm up for sparring! even if you do sound like an old timer :cool:
as for the OP i can only echo what others have said, be well rounded. i'm nowhere near that yet but i'm keeping my eyes open which seems unlike alot of people who attend a class twice a week and delude themselves there style is the best :o
SimonM
01-03-2014, 08:55 AM
if you ever get over to the uk i'm up for sparring! even if you do sound like an old timer :cool:
Trust me, "if you're ever in the neighbourhood" invites never bear fruit. Hell I can't even get guys who live in Markham to come down for a meetup in Toronto. :p
What's the value to only test your skill against people from your own system? Will it be better to test your skill against people from other systems?
Your thought?
Each style or school of MA has preferred skill sets for solving common fighting scenario.
If we focus on tactics and strategy that come along with the preferred skills repertoire,
we expand our learning curve and horizon.
As they say, variation is the spice of life.
etc etc.
:)
Trust me, "if you're ever in the neighbourhood" invites never bear fruit. Hell I can't even get guys who live in Markham to come down for a meetup in Toronto. :p
haha it was worth a try :p i'm going to start having a look at local classes near me and see if they do any sparring (and won't charge me money for it :eek:) :o
GoldenBrain
01-05-2014, 12:29 AM
What's the value to only test your skill against people from your own system? Will it be better to test your skill against people from other systems?
Your thought?
It's been my experience with any system I've studied that the students eventually develop their own way of expressing the style so it's not a problem to test your skill against people from the same system. I'd say it's more important to test your skill against a more skilled opponent wether it be in your system or another.
Now, it's another story if the school you're studying at doesn't do any hard sparring. In that case I'd suggest visiting the local MMA gym because you can bet they'll be ready to bang with you.
Personally I like to do both. I have a few buddies who fight competitively in the MMA world so even though we spar hard in our system it's always challenging and a great learning experience to throw down with professional fighters.
Let me cite a well known example.
In Song dynasty,
Mu Gui Yin vs Yang Zhong Bao.
Yang was well skilled with his Yang family spear.
They both fought on the horse.
The first time, Yang was ahead and Mu barely kept up. It was a tie.
Mu practiced to defend and counter attack all the moves that she barely lost.
At second time several weeks later,
All the Yang moves were countered successfully.
The third and the fourth time, Yang lost and was captured.
Yang did not change his moves at all. He only practiced more of the same.
Mu remembered all her fights and worked on improvements.
She did not change the style but find solutions within her own style.
Adapt and learn from her every fight.
The rest is history.
Mu Gui Ying eventually commanded Song's army and defeated Liao.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrDaK70dTdk
Mu gui ying takes command.
Peking opera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t9fF6eoW54
Mu gui ying takes command.
Fu Jian opera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kR-BmEIaHI
Mu gui ying takes command.
He Nan opera. Yu Ju.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FwGm_x_uYw
Mu gui ying
He Bei opera
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWlPVwzED20
The same story of mu gui ying
how many different tunes to sing the same opera.
The same fighting scenario
how many styles to fight the same situation.
etc etc
:)
Gina's style is MT.
What is yours ?
Focus and specialize in one style
or mix and mash ?
That is always the question.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN82sPNew-M
Now, it's another story if the school you're studying at doesn't do any hard sparring. In that case I'd suggest visiting the local MMA gym because you can bet they'll be ready to bang with you.
now that's a good idea :D
Gina's style is MT.
What is yours ?
Focus and specialize in one style
or mix and mash ?
That is always the question.
:eek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2WukqdCpYk
i think you can still specialize in one style just don't close yourself off from the rest of the world :p atleast have a good idea of the other styles out there and an idea how to fight against em
I think you have to do what is right for you, what works for you. Ya know? Personally, I have never come across one style that embodied everything that works well for me. But if you can adapt one style to successfully attack and defend against others, who am I to say that's bad. But honestly, I never see that.
David Jamieson
01-06-2014, 07:32 AM
I think it's important to first acquire some skill.
Once you've put in the time and effort to do that, you won't think it's a big deal to touch hands with others.
If you are caught in some sort of inane loyalty plan... I don't know what to say about that. :)
Lee Chiang Po
01-07-2014, 09:19 PM
It amazes me how you still try to sell yourself like this.
I admire your delusions !
They have quite the staying power.
You are right, but I am an old man now. In my younger days I was much more arrogant and full of myself. thing is, you would not have been able to fight me back then. I was absolutely and totally confident in myself and my prowess as a gung fu fighter. It made my living for the better part of 30 years. It helped me earn a lot of money.
I realize that, or it seems like some of you spend your time running between gyms trying to learn different styles of fighting, but never really seem to use it for your own benefit. You will never amount to much as a fighter unless you settle on something and work until you are good at it. And you have to have confidence to the point of arrogance if you intend to make it work for you. The world you live in is way too small I think.
lkfmdc
01-07-2014, 09:54 PM
I am an old man now
old enough.......
Dragonzbane76
01-08-2014, 05:43 PM
The world you live in is way too small I think.
and your world is way to egotistical.
SteveLau
01-15-2014, 12:50 AM
It is good to do both. Basically, it means to know what the real world is by getting out of the bottom of a well. Even the opponent's skill has advantage over us, we might still win. Think about it. If our system can allow the student to defeat opponents of similar skill level only, perhaps that will tell us how good it is.
Regards,
KC
Hong Kong
Faux Newbie
01-16-2014, 11:30 AM
I think it's good to train with others who do other systems. This doesn't mean I have to train their system, but it does mean that, if my system has a response to what they are doing, I will have to know it. It makes me better at what I am doing.
That said, I have nothing against borrowing a practice I like from another source.
MightyB
01-16-2014, 02:36 PM
Nothing more frustrating than being completely shut down by a grappler though. Getting punched out is refreshing compared to having some cat manhandle you but not really hurting you.
This statement seems like the gimp scene from pulp fiction... So you like being manhandled and gently punched? :eek: :p
MightyB
01-16-2014, 02:41 PM
You will never amount to much as a fighter unless you settle on something and work until you are good at it. And you have to have confidence to the point of arrogance if you intend to make it work for you.
I agree with this... but you have to constantly be aware that there is a danger in misguided self confidence if you don't test yourself outside of your school and system once in a while.
Just remember the look of shock on that Ki Master's face when the young MMA guy slapped him upside the head to get what I mean.
SteveLau
01-17-2014, 11:45 PM
To supplement to what my previous words, test our skill against other systems will tell us how good our system can stand in the world. Sparring with people of our own system is often not large in range of techniques. Besides learning the technicalties of different system, it can improve our modesty. There is likely a higher mountain out there.
Regards,
KC
Hong Kong
YouKnowWho
02-08-2014, 11:26 PM
Today, 2 of my students just won the 1st and 2nd place in a local Sambo tournament. Unfortunately, they had to fight the final between them.
IronWeasel
02-09-2014, 07:44 AM
Today, 2 of my students just won the 1st and 2nd place in a local Sambo tournament. Unfortunately, they had to fight the final between them.
Congrats!
Do you have any video to share?
YouKnowWho
02-09-2014, 12:53 PM
Congrats!
Do you have any video to share?
I wasn't there but I would ask my student if any of their friends did any recording. The attitude that they are willing to test their skill against other systems in different rule sets that make me very happy.
That's awesome. Best way to round out is to diversify, of course. Good for them. You must be very happy to see your teachings cross over like that. Good for all of you. You should try to find some catch wrestling matches for them.
Do they cross train or is it all your teachings?
Kellen Bassette
02-09-2014, 06:04 PM
Today, 2 of my students just won the 1st and 2nd place in a local Sambo tournament. Unfortunately, they had to fight the final between them.
Congrats! :)
YouKnowWho
02-09-2014, 07:18 PM
Do they cross train or is it all your teachings?
One guy cross trained BJJ for ground skill. The other guy had ground skill from wrestling before he came to me.
MightyB
02-17-2014, 12:13 PM
Something to think about - If an Eagle Claw practitioner can't seize & lock, or a mantis guy can't diu sau or ou lou choi, a wing chun guy can't trap, or a shuai jiao guy not throw in open combat? Even if they've sparred regularly - What is it they are doing?
Style is the residue of trying to get things right.
YouKnowWho
02-25-2014, 05:57 PM
This was one of my guys who tested his skill against other style last Sunday afternoon.
This afternoon was very interesting. The guy who invited me out is a bjj/wrestler/judo guy. He is strong on his feet, but better on the mat. The guy who runs the open mat is a little older than me. He lived in Westerm China for 5 years and trained in Chinese Mma and mongolian shuai chiao. I didn't know that at first. He tried a leg block headlock on me i didnt expect. I had to counter with catching his knee and spinning out to rear embrace. Then he told me about his China experience. I told him about you. He wants to meet you. He speaks mandarin. Maybe he will come to class next week at 12pm.
Also, i tried hand blocking, but everyone was very good and i had to stick with a lot of overhook, underhook and leg games. But i got my first ever full leg block throw. I had arm clamping and collar tie. I took a short stealing step and blocked both legs above the knee very hard and threw him up in the air, full 360 down on his back. I was very happy.
Yum Cha
02-27-2014, 03:58 PM
I have a couple of mates whom I spar lightly with, one a former (two times) Brazilian National Capoera Champion, the other a former member of the Soviet National Karate Team.
Jesus, the Capoera guy, dispelled any doubts I ever had it was a non-applicable art. The footwork and cadence is something that can be applied in many interpretations. Lots of sweeps and leg traps, not just spinning wheel kicks…and they wrong foot you by instinct.
sanjuro_ronin
02-28-2014, 07:33 AM
I have a couple of mates whom I spar lightly with, one a former (two times) Brazilian National Capoera Champion, the other a former member of the Soviet National Karate Team.
Jesus, the Capoera guy, dispelled any doubts I ever had it was a non-applicable art. The footwork and cadence is something that can be applied in many interpretations. Lots of sweeps and leg traps, not just spinning wheel kicks…and they wrong foot you by instinct.
Never, ever, underestimate the value of being unorthodox.
YouKnowWho
03-02-2014, 02:41 PM
This afternoon one of my guys and his MMA friends will challenge "UT wrestling team". I'll post the result of that event later.
bawang
03-03-2014, 07:02 AM
Never, ever, underestimate the value of being unorthodox.
if a kung fu guy tries to learn kickboxing and mma with the same rigidity and dogmatic mindset he used for kung fu, he will end up with the same results.
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