Black panthers in the USA

[GoldenBrain]

Anybody heard about these little kitties? Most people I have spoke to about this say nah, there's no way, but it appears that people are sighting them all over the place. I've heard a theory that a released or several released black panthers have mated with the US mountain lion which may have spawned a hybrid that is larger than either of the parents. Kind of scary for forest hiking folks like myself. The one in the photo below was spotted in Walnut Cove, NC.

8036


Edit: This photo appears to be a bogus retouch of a photo taken in Africa. This subject is still alive in the U.S.A. since many people claim they see these cats here, so if anybody has a photo or a story to share then feel free to contribute to this thread.

[Kellen Bassette]

Jaguars are occasionally found in the southwest, along the Mexican border. It is possible there could be some black phase jaguars in the states, although if so, it would probably be extremely rare.

[Syn7]

We have huge mountain lion population here. They can get pretty big, some clear 200lbs apparently. How big do those ones get?

[GoldenBrain]

We have huge mountain lion population here. They can get pretty big, some clear 200lbs apparently. How big do those ones get?

I've not personally seen one but I have spoken to a few people in NC who have. They all say much bigger than the standard mountain lion. Well, longer anyway. 7' to 8' from nose to tail is the normal description. I think that's getting into bengal tiger territory.

[GoldenBrain]

Sh!t, I almost forgot. My own father saw one last year while deer hunting in SW Oklahoma. He said it looked like a horse jumping over a hedge of green briar. He said it was one of those unreal moments where time just stands still and it took him a few moments to register what he saw. His description was also something like 7-8 ft long. So, Kellen this may be what you're talking about since we are pretty close to the southern border. I'd hate to run into one of these black beauties or a mountain lion on our trails.

[GoldenBrain]

This was sent to me by a friend. I believe it was on one of his family members webcams so I'll ask him if we can get a deer shot from the same angle for a comparison. No promises but if they have one I'll definitely post the photo.

[Syn7]

Are they more aggressive than cougars? Honestly, cougars are the last thing I'm worried about when I'm out there. I'm more afraid of moose! They can be such *******s, lol.

[GoldenBrain]

Are they more aggressive than cougars? Honestly, cougars are the last thing I'm worried about when I'm out there. I'm more afraid of moose! They can be such *******s, lol.

I don't think there is any evidence to support them being more aggressive so good point. I don't actually fear them because I'm sure they'd just turn the other way. Hopefully. I was saying that more tongue and cheek. I've never seen a moose in the wild but I hear they are pretty fierce.

[Syn7]

Yeah, I guess if you are going to be attacked by a cat I would rather it be like 130 than 220, but you know... either way it's gonna go bad for you. :p

Black bears are pretty kosher too. Usually. I hear browns can be quite aggressive, but I've never come face to face with one of those.

You just have to be smart, think ahead etc etc. It's always a possibility you'll be attacked. I've been charged by deer, moose, bear, elk... it's always just been posturing though. Except for the moose, that one was close. But I wasn't on home turf and I don't really know how to act around moose, so kinda my own fault. I've heard some pretty horrible stories, but most of them can be chalked up to the unschooled and the reckless, like me and the moose. :o Man they're big, lol.

[Kellen Bassette]

I would love to come across a big cat, 99 times out of 100 most animals, even the predators will run...but like Syn was saying, moose are a bit different. A rutting bull, or a cow with a calf can be very dangerous, I've heard and read of lots of people being attacked.
They are just starting to make a comeback near my area...I hope to see the day when spotting one here will be as common as seeing a deer instead or a rarity.

It's really amazing at how much damage we did to predators in the middle and late 19th century, when many states and communities put bounties on cougars, lynx, bobcat, bear, wolves and foxes...basically eradicating all the larger predators from all but the remote mountain areas. This is why the whitetail deer population has exploded and the more adaptable coyote has taken over the range of most other predators...it makes for a very different ecosystem than a century and a half ago.

The funny thing is, this attitude continued even through the great depression, by the time most predators were already wiped out in most of their ranges in the States. I found a hunting license from 1930; it said on it that it was every hunters responsibility to kill wolves, bobcats, foxes, lynx, ect, in any season, as these predators kill the "good game." By the 80's we were trying to bring a lot of these animals back. It's incredible how much public attitude can change in 50 years.

[mickey]

Greetings,

These cats may have been in the area for a few generations. I had a relative who was from North Carolina. According to one of my sisters, he had a small black cat named Solomon; well, he thought it was a cat until he saw the way leaped after a rat. He said aloud, "That AIN'T no CAT!!" and quickly got rid of it. This was @ five decades ago.

mickey

[GoldenBrain]

Yeah, I guess if you are going to be attacked by a cat I would rather it be like 130 than 220, but you know... either way it's gonna go bad for you. :p

Yes sir, you got that right. This must by why sifu always says, "never leave home without a belt." Never know when you might need a tourniquet. :D

We have some bobcats around here and even though they are smallish compared to the big cats I'd never want to tangle with one. I see their tracks all the time and they show up on our game cameras but I've never seen one so that attests to them not wanting to have anything to do with us pink blobs.

[GoldenBrain]

I would love to come across a big cat, 99 times out of 100 most animals, even the predators will run...but like Syn was saying, moose are a bit different. A rutting bull, or a cow with a calf can be very dangerous, I've heard and read of lots of people being attacked.
They are just starting to make a comeback near my area...I hope to see the day when spotting one here will be as common as seeing a deer instead or a rarity.

It's really amazing at how much damage we did to predators in the middle and late 19th century, when many states and communities put bounties on cougars, lynx, bobcat, bear, wolves and foxes...basically eradicating all the larger predators from all but the remote mountain areas. This is why the whitetail deer population has exploded and the more adaptable coyote has taken over the range of most other predators...it makes for a very different ecosystem than a century and a half ago.

The funny thing is, this attitude continued even through the great depression, by the time most predators were already wiped out in most of their ranges in the States. I found a hunting license from 1930; it said on it that it was every hunters responsibility to kill wolves, bobcats, foxes, lynx, ect, in any season, as these predators kill the "good game." By the 80's we were trying to bring a lot of these animals back. It's incredible how much public attitude can change in 50 years.

Wise thoughts here! It's pretty sad the way we have raped this land. Hopefully we can make it right before we completely destroy it.

I was attacked by a whitetail deer in Colorado when I was about 12. I was feeding this big buck at the Royal Gorge St Park. I ran out of food and he was not happy. He jumped up on his back legs, pawed me a few times and then my hero dad jumped in and ran it off. All was well except for my shock and a couple of hoof shaped bruises on my upper chest. It really could have gone bad and they are nowhere near the size of a moose. The moral, either don't feed wild animals wether they be in a park or otherwise, and if you do and run out of food, set the cup down in front of you with a few nibbles left in it and back away.

[GoldenBrain]

Greetings,

These cats may have been in the area for a few generations. I had a relative who was from North Carolina. According to one of my sisters, he had a small black cat named Solomon; well, he thought it was a cat until he saw the way leaped after a rat. He said aloud, "That AIN'T no CAT!!" and quickly got rid of it. This was @ five decades ago.

mickey

It might have been the moonshine! lol Just kidding!!! :p

There has to be a decent population of them with so many people having seen them. They are just really hard to see because they are black as night and those mountains are full of shadowy places to hide.

[Syn7]

As I rule, I don't feed wild animals. By hand anyways. Of course I will leave some things behind when I'm out in the bush and let "nature take it's course". But that's a lil different. Anyone who has hunted med to large game in an area where you have to carry it out knows what I'm talking about. The hardest part about hunting on foot away from roads is carrying the meat outta there. Suuuuuucks!

I'm not sure I understand what Mickey is saying. Dude had a small black cat that turned out to be a what? A big cat? How could somebody confuse one for the other? Me no understand.

[mickey]

Hi Syn7,

That was what was passed down to me. I did not think much about it until this thread popped up. So, I just wanted to share that much. If you are not used to seeing panthers, a black "cat" would be considered a cat.

I have been told that North Carolina is the place to be right now. It could be that land development is causing more sightings.


mickey

[GoldenBrain]

I have been told that North Carolina is the place to be right now. It could be that land development is causing more sightings.


Bingo! The are wrecking the mountain views with more homes than the resources can support. Such is the case it seems with many states. The lake next to us, Texoma, has been drained this year so badly that you can barely find a place to put a boat in the water and it's an 89,000 acre lake. There's hardly any homes on it compared to the size, but Dallas/Ft Worth needs the water for their ever expanding population so it is piped to them. If you look at a map you'll see all kinds of lakes around Dallas which are used for water but the rich folk don't want them to be drained too much so Texoma, 2 hours to the north has to pay for it. Just sad...:(

[GoldenBrain]

The hardest part about hunting on foot away from roads is carrying the meat outta there. Suuuuuucks!


I hear that! I'm not a tree stand hunter so I am usually more than a mile from any camp I hunt from. I had to drag a deer something like 4 miles up and down ravines one year. Sucks is right, but it sure was tasty! :D

[Kellen Bassette]

A lot of people think of "black panthers" as a specific species of big cat. They are not. What is commonly called a black panther, is a leopard or jaguar in a black color phase. Just like black squirrels in the eastern U.S. are the same animal as gray squirrels, or white tigers are the same animal as Bengal tigers, just a different color phase.

Leopards are not indigenous to North America, so any occurrence of them would have to come from released or escaped captive animals. Jaguars are native to South and Central America; and the desert southwest in the United States. As far as I know, they never ranged as far east as the Carolinas, so it seems if the eastern sightings are real, and not mistaken identity, it would probably be from formerly captive animals.

Big cats are known to have huge ranges, however. It seems unlikely to me they would travel as far as North Carolina, from Arizona, but I suppose it is possible. Recently a road killed mountain lion was DNA tested in Massachusetts; and scientists concluded that it came from a population in South Dakota. I have my doubts though. I'm sure if I were DNA tested, the results would show I am of French descent; and yet I've never been to France. Perhaps they are correct, or possibly the cat came from the Adirondack Mountains, or southeast Ontario/southwest Quebec, where biologists and environmental authorities insist cougars are extirpated, in spite of hundreds of sightings and the occasional, scat, tracks, hair and photos. Who is to say those animals may not have returned, (or never left,) and may be of western descent originally.

Moose returned naturally to Northern New York in the 1980's, after being extirpated in the 1860's. The "experts" first said they could not survive, in competition with the whitetail, then they said it would take centuries to reach the sustainable populations they have today. As far as I've read, they never determined whether they returned from Vermont, Quebec or Ontario. There isn't much fact from talking heads that I don't take with a grain of salt nowadays.

[Kellen Bassette]

If you look at a map you'll see all kinds of lakes around Dallas which are used for water but the rich folk don't want them to be drained too much so Texoma, 2 hours to the north has to pay for it. Just sad...:(

There has been talk and plans of building a pipeline from the Great Lakes to Phoenix and other southwestern cities to satisfy their water shortages. Fortunately, the Great Lakes States and Ontario drew up a pact to prevent this. There is no reason our ecosystems should be damaged because of poor city planning and building in unsuitable areas over a thousand miles away.

[SoCo KungFu]

Anybody heard about these little kitties? Most people I have spoke to about this say nah, there's no way, but it appears that people are sighting them all over the place. I've heard a theory that a released or several released black panthers have mated with the US mountain lion which may have spawned a hybrid that is larger than either of the parents. Kind of scary for forest hiking folks like myself. The one in the photo below was spotted in Walnut Cove, NC.

8036

This picture has been popping up for years, its a fraud. The picture was originally from Africa.

There are no panthers. Period. Panther is a common name that has no descriptive value. Panthera, is a genus name that includes Tigers, Leopards, Lions and Jaguars.

Why am I nitpicking? Because people don't know what they are referring to. Florida "panthers" are an endangered subspecies of Puma concolor. Puma concolor is what everyone calls mountain lions. They are pumas, and people should use this term and this term only because it is the only one that resembles phylogenic accuracy.

"Black Panthers" are actually either melanistic Jaguar (New World) or melanistic Leopard (Old World). There are no leopards in new world, and no jaguar in old world. When referring to black panthers, people should use jaguar, or leopard.

Jaguar (Panthera onca) do not range to the eastern US. Jaguarundi (another cat of genus Puma), can be black. But on average only reach about 25 lbs, and do not range to eastern US. Puma concolor, can be grayish in color, and can reach 120 ish lbs. This is most likely what people are seeing.

The human eye isn't evolved to detect colors at rapid speeds. Your peripheral vision is dominated by rods, which only detect black and white and low resolution detail. A dark animal, moving at speed, in low light conditions, will be nearly indistinguishable. Colors will blur, and even size will appear larger than it actually is. A puma will be indistinguishable from a black bear. And no, people don't, "Know what they saw." Humans are notorious for screwing up what they think they see. And most don't have a clue what lives in their woods (like why people have called mammalogists from my old univ in SC claiming they have margays...). Margays are really cool cats by the way. They are the only feline that can supinate their hind feet, allowing them to run down trees. And they are about the cutest thing in existence, except maybe pudu.

If there are melanistic large cats in the Eastern US, they are most certainly isolated individuals, not breeding populations. And most certainly would be releases from exotic pet trade when idiots realize they can't handle a 120lbs carnivore (this IS how breeding populations start, and why FL is so screwed up now). But that there are even these individuals present, is a huge concession. People have looked through records back to the 1600's and found no trace of these cats in the SE US; other than mis-identifications, mistaken claw and teeth marks that are actually canids, or most often recently, forgeries.

[Syn7]

Hi Syn7,

That was what was passed down to me. I did not think much about it until this thread popped up. So, I just wanted to share that much. If you are not used to seeing panthers, a black "cat" would be considered a cat.

I have been told that North Carolina is the place to be right now. It could be that land development is causing more sightings.


mickey
I've seen some hairy housecats that maybe could be mistaken for a linx, from a distance, maybe. I have trouble wrapping my head around how somebody could mistake a house cat for a panther. At any age. Baby wildcats look like what they are... kittens that quickly outgrow housecats. Their dimensions are just.... different.

I'm not knocking the story or calling bull****, I just don't understand.


I hear that! I'm not a tree stand hunter so I am usually more than a mile from any camp I hunt from. I had to drag a deer something like 4 miles up and down ravines one year. Sucks is right, but it sure was tasty! :D

Naw, tree stands aren't my style either. If I was hungry and that was my best chance, I would go there. But I'm not and it isn't... so, yeah. Most of my time in the bush is exploration time. To wander and track is much more my style. Multitasking, ya know!

Field dressing is an important skill. If you can quarter the game and use your packs, even better. I have a lot of respect for the hunters that get way out there on foot. To be honest, unless it was a necessity in order to survive, I have no interest in hunting on a four wheeler 20 minutes from some highway. Just not my thing.

When I am in the right position to do so, I'm going to try to take the time and make all my meat game meat. It's just better on every level. It's more humane, it tastes better, it's better for you, it gives you a sense of satisfaction you can never get from going to safeway, it connects you to you food source in a way that is very liberating.

I'll never understand meat eaters who think hunting is cruel. Clearly they've never seen large scale meat production. Such a weird disconnect.

[mickey]

Greeting,

GoldenBrain,

I remember you saying that you have Native American ancestry. Do your oral traditions contain the memory of these "cats"?



mickey

[Kellen Bassette]

Naw, tree stands aren't my style either. If I was hungry and that was my best chance, I would go there. But I'm not and it isn't... so, yeah. Most of my time in the bush is exploration time. To wander and track is much more my style. Multitasking, ya know!


Definitely like the tracking better, not quite as good odds as stand hunting, but much less boring.



When I am in the right position to do so, I'm going to try to take the time and make all my meat game meat. It's just better on every level. It's more humane, it tastes better, it's better for you, it gives you a sense of satisfaction you can never get from going to safeway, it connects you to you food source in a way that is very liberating.

I'll never understand meat eaters who think hunting is cruel. Clearly they've never seen large scale meat production. Such a weird disconnect.

I know, right? Someone can eat a burger and say it's cruel to kill a deer. People are are so arbitrary.

[mickey]

Greetings,

This is interesting because it fits in with the time frame reference to the incident that was passed on within my family. Still, it does not prove anything beyond a doubt:

http://www.carolinaweeklynews.com/id32.html

More: http://www.outdoorlife.com/forums/hunting/predators-small-game/predator-techniques/big-black-cats-america

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/powder-keg/55282-black-cougars-nc.html

http://www.nchuntandfish.com/forums/showthread.php?39713-For-Those-Follwing-the-Panther-Sightings



mickey

[SoCo KungFu]

I
I'll never understand meat eaters who think hunting is cruel. Clearly they've never seen large scale meat production. Such a weird disconnect.

I don't understand this mentality from anyone really. Hunting is a necessary part of conservation. While I deplore the recent issue with the TX auction hunting a black rhino, in general, hunting serves an important function. Especially as we have, in our stupidity, eliminated many of the meso and apex predators in many habitats.

[GoldenBrain]

Greeting,

GoldenBrain,

I remember you saying that you have Native American ancestry. Do your oral traditions contain the memory of these "cats"?



mickey


Mountain lion yes but no black cats. I even double checked with my dad and he's never heard any black cat stories either.

I spoke with my buddy today and he said his brother saw one in NC, but the photo I posted was just something he got from Facebook. Sorry about spamming the forum with a bogus photo but it has served a purpose in that I've learned a lot about cats today. Thanks SoCo for bing that to our attention.

[Syn7]

I don't understand this mentality from anyone really. Hunting is a necessary part of conservation. While I deplore the recent issue with the TX auction hunting a black rhino, in general, hunting serves an important function. Especially as we have, in our stupidity, eliminated many of the meso and apex predators in many habitats.

Yeah, that auction is kinda weird and counterintuitive. I choose to abstain in this one though.

I can't confirm this, which is why I choose not to make judgement, but apparently the hunt is for an older male passed breeding age who is aggressive and interfering with those who are breeding, or trying to. I don't claim to know it all when it comes to conservation, but I do know some things. I know that traits like that can be a plus with a high population and a disadvantage with very low populations. So they say that this is an older male who would have been eliminated anyways, so they auctioned off the kill in order to raise money for conservation efforts. I have friends who are conservation officers and I know they don't make these decisions lightly. I can't speak for how it is in africa, but I want to believe they show the same due care and attention.

That being said, you kinda gotta be a douche to wanna shoot a rhino, or any animal, that you don't want to eat. I hate that trophy ****. I have killed animals, but never once did I have the desire to hang it's head on my wall. To me that just seems disrespectful. Like it's more about showing off. I hunt because it's part of my culture, it's a handy skill and it's just how we do. Nothing more, nothing less. I care deeply for these animals and I am horrified when I make a bad shot.

[Jimbo]

Sorry for going OT, but IMO, the population of wild pigs has gotten way out of hand in some states, to the point of them ruining farmland and also adversely affecting native wildlife. Although they were brought here hundreds of years ago by the Spaniards, and much later others were brought over from Russia/Eurasia for hunting, they are now quite a problem. And culling them is not easy, as they can be very elusive and hide really well. Not to mention they reproduce very quickly. There certainly aren't enough large predators to control them, and they can be extremely dangerous to boot.

[Syn7]

Sorry for going OT, but IMO, the population of wild pigs has gotten way out of hand in some states, to the point of them ruining farmland and also adversely affecting native wildlife. Although they were brought here hundreds of years ago by the Spaniards, and much later others were brought over from Russia/Eurasia for hunting, they are now quite a problem. And culling them is not easy, as they can be very elusive and hide really well. Not to mention they reproduce very quickly. There certainly aren't enough large predators to control them, and they can be extremely dangerous to boot.


I've heard some pretty crazy stories about their aggression.

[GoldenBrain]

Those feral pigs are no joke. They're a huge problem here in Texas which is why there is no license required to hunt them. They are good eating though if you capture them and feed them for a few weeks to take out the gamy flavor.


Syn, I didn't take you for a trophy hunter, but I'm still glad to hear you say it. I REALLY hate that sh!t! I have no problem hunting for food, but hanging dead carcasses on our walls just seems morbid. Oh, hey, thanks for stoping by…take a look at our wall of death. No thanks! I shot a whitetail deer in SE Oklahoma about 30 years ago with 42 points. The thing was absolutely beautiful, but was really old and probably wouldn't have made it another year. This was a ground tracking hunt like always. I made it to within 25 yards of that deer, and smelled something musky, looked to the right and there it was, up on it's hind legs eating from the trees. It actually startled me, and for a moment I hesitated because it was just amazing to look at, but I needed to fill the freezer with meat so…BOOM! I still have friends and family that give me grief for discarding the so called trophy. I give them the finger!

[Kellen Bassette]

I shot a whitetail deer in SE Oklahoma about 30 years ago with 42 points.

I'm assuming your taking some creative liberties here?

[Kellen Bassette]

Sorry for going OT, but IMO, the population of wild pigs has gotten way out of hand in some states, to the point of them ruining farmland and also adversely affecting native wildlife. Although they were brought here hundreds of years ago by the Spaniards, and much later others were brought over from Russia/Eurasia for hunting, they are now quite a problem. And culling them is not easy, as they can be very elusive and hide really well. Not to mention they reproduce very quickly. There certainly aren't enough large predators to control them, and they can be extremely dangerous to boot.

There non-native, so I think you can hunt them anywhere, anytime, in most States that have them anyway. Trouble is, they are still spreading into new areas. As So Co was saying, the lack of large predators has really screwed things up. It irritates me when people are against programs to reinstate predators in their former ranges, where there is enough wild land to support it. Concerns for attacks on people and livestock are absurdly overblown, but old prejudices die hard in some places.

[Syn7]

Well, we all have smart phones now, so it's a non issue. :D

It's amazing to see how far and fast we've come. It doesn't feel like all that long ago when having a video camera was a luxury. I'm thinking about getting one of those go-pro's. I do a lot of stuff that would be fun to film. Not to mention mounting on various flying machines.

42 points is crazy pants! You sound like a fisherman! :p

[GoldenBrain]

I'm assuming your taking some creative liberties here?

No sir! It was a full 18 points with the rest being non standard gnarly points all mixed in and twisted throughout the 18. It really was the coolest rack I've ever seen, however it was so knotted up with all those points that the antlers wouldn't even have made decent knife handles. I field dress all my deer so I don't have a live weight, but field dressed it went over 300 lbs. It's been a while now so I think 302 was the number but I could be wrong. It definitely went over 300 though. Oklahoma is full of these large whitetails. The ones here in Texas are a bit smallish so they regularly import from Oklahoma to beef up the stock. The one I saw recently on our property wouldn't have dressed out at much more than 120 - 150 lbs. Sorry, I get a bit long winded. Maybe my handle should have been motormouth...:D

[GoldenBrain]

Well, we all have smart phones now, so it's a non issue. :D

It's amazing to see how far and fast we've come. It doesn't feel like all that long ago when having a video camera was a luxury. I'm thinking about getting one of those go-pro's. I do a lot of stuff that would be fun to film. Not to mention mounting on various flying machines.

42 points is crazy pants! You sound like a fisherman! :p

:D I swear I would have taken a picture if there had been an iPhone in my pocket back then. Speaking of fishing, I did catch a 590 lb bass one time… hahahaha, just kidding. ;)

Back then, in about 1989 or so when I shot that deer we only had a VHS camcorder. My parents still have that thing in a box somewhere. I saw it a few years ago when they moved here from Fl. It's hilariously large. I mean bigger than the largest component in our entertainment center and weighs about as much as one of those old VHS players. We really have come a long way since then. I imagine there are many who may read this that have no idea what I just said. HUH, VHS? :confused:


I've taken several bucks with nice racks, but truth be told I learned a long time ago that doe meat is much better. It's not as tough as the old bucks, so I normally only take a doe on last day doe day. Sometimes we get to take two in a season. They are still pretty hefty in Okla., so I'm fine with loosing a little weight for better meat.

With all that said, I don't even care to hunt them much anymore. I have been trading for American Buffalo meat that my Choctaw buddy grows in Okla. That stuff is just amazing and super lean without all the problems of too much vitamin A.

[SoCo KungFu]

This is probably better in the environmental protection page, but since feral pigs were mentioned here.

http://www.pnas.org/content/99/2/791.full.pdf

Not just interesting because of the pigs, but because it had multiple indirect impacts throughout the system. This is the kind of stuff people mean when they talk about the things that are difficult to study, and we can't know, when they tell people not to do x, y, or z on their property. Or like people up here that are live baiting with southern crayfish, and those crayfish are now wrecking the banks and causing all sorts of problems.

[Syn7]

How bout those snakeheads. I know it's a real problem inland, but so far my area has had very few sightings. But conservation is terrified of these things. They drained a lake(man made) based on a reported sighting or two. Found some turtles that weren't very suited to our climate(apparently, I'm no turtle expert) but no snakeheads. Those lil *******s are badass!

[SoCo KungFu]

How bout those snakeheads. I know it's a real problem inland, but so far my area has had very few sightings. But conservation is terrified of these things. They drained a lake(man made) based on a reported sighting or two. Found some turtles that weren't very suited to our climate(apparently, I'm no turtle expert) but no snakeheads. Those lil *******s are badass!

Yeah, people are worried about that one. But unlike some say, it will be preyed upon by eagles and such as juvies. Its the adults that cause the issues. Its too early to tell the ultimate effects. Although, as was the case in the paper I posted above, we can't really predict what could happen. It took 150 years before the feral pigs ended up in the extinction of an island species. Most people think of pollution only in terms of chemicals. What they don't realize is that the absolute worst pollution we have brought to our systems has come in the form of invasive species. Its also the one that, once started, is nearly impossible to correct. Asian carp has people worried too around here. Some think that it won't be able to invade Lake Erie because its too cold for them to reproduce. But with temps increasing, who can say what will be the case in 30-50 years. Especially if another nuclear plant is built somewhere feeding into the lakes adding more thermal pollution.

[Syn7]

Nothing like that over here. We got mad hydro and far less people. Not that we don't contribute to heat pollution, we mos def do our part.

I guess losing all our manufacturing jobs to asia does have a few positive side effects. I can still see the sky, so that's good. I couldn't imagine living under a smog blanket.

Maybe it's too cold here for snakeheads, I don't know much about them. I just hear that as far as invasives go, these things are serious. Interesting story to follow though.

I think people worry so much about changing the environment because you can't just go back, but not all unintended side effects are bad.

[GoldenBrain]

Invasive species are a real problem but some have been brought back under control. I'm sure it's not many, but the TX longhorn comes to mind. The Spanish brought them over and in time they went feral which is why they have such long horns and are extremely robust and disease resistant. You don't have to give a longhorn antibiotics to keep it healthy which is not the case for other types of cattle. They are not as fatty as the others either which costs at the scales, but they do save a bunch of money in vet expenses so maybe it evens out.

I don't see how we can correct water dwelling invasive species like the snakehead, however I hear they are really good eating and some are capitalizing so maybe they'll over fish them out of existence.

The feral pig is not going away anytime soon. Even if we did get them under control some ******* farmer would find a way to let some out so the problem would just start over. The best thing we can do is hunt them into manageable numbers. I say we should give the meat to the poor folk out there but sadly nobody has to do anything with them so many farmers just let them lie where they die.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Syn7's questioning about how my relative couldn't tell the difference between a panther and a cat got me thinking.

I called two daughters of that relative in separate phone calls and asked about the cat they had and this is what I got:

1- They BOTH corrected me and told me it was a panther.

2- When it was young it was bigger than a puppy.

3- It had short black hair and a very long tail.

4- Had very large paws.

5- Enjoyed leaping up on things.

6- Had yellow eyes.

7- Had long fangs longer and thicker than a regular cat. The words "like a vampire" was used.

8- When it sat down, it was incredibly upright, with a straight spine.

9- Did not walk like a cat at all.

10- Would not stop growing.

11- It started to chase the owner around the house.

The aforementioned has humorous touches of Little Red Riding Hood all over it. When I got the info, I was laughing. One thing that I noticed is that the animal did absolutely no harm to anyone and it had ample opportunity to do so. Additionally, the two people called are still cat lovers. They would know the difference, even if it took hindsight.

I thank Goldenbrain for starting this thread and Syn7 for raising questions about my family "history". They sparked my interest in learning more about that "cat" and, boy, did I learn more!

Thank you both,

mickey

[GoldenBrain]

Greetings,

I thank Goldenbrain for starting this thread and Syn7 for raising questions about my family "history". They sparked my interest in learning more about that "cat" and, boy, did I learn more!

Thank you both,

mickey

You are welcome my friend! ***Places right fist in left palm and takes a courteous bow***