View Full Version : How long would you need a Sifu before you can practice on your own?
I was wondering...how long would you need a Sifu for before you can start practicing the art form by one self?
Like I'm hearing stories of how people move to a country to train for like an year or two but is that really enough time to grasp the art enough to master it by urself?
crazedjustice88
01-22-2014, 03:22 AM
You can always train on your own and see your sifu every now and then but I'm assuming thats not what your addressing.
I personally want to stay close to my sifu as long as I can. I am developing a singing career but have told everyone involved that I refuse to move more than an hour away from my sifu. When I told him that he laughed but at the same time he could tell that I was serious.
I love the constant tutelage that being near to your sifu allows one to have but at the same time, you train on your own so you can make the art your own. My sifu and I have compared notes on movements many times, mine almost always end up being a waste of time but he is glad to see that I am making a effort to try and make the art my own.
Thats what a master is for me. A compass to keep you going down the right path.
As for the original question of how long? I personally don't know and people are different so some might need 1-2 yrs and others might need 10-20. Its all up to how deep your willing to go and how much of your sifus knowledge you want.
sanjuro_ronin
01-22-2014, 06:02 AM
Truly depends on the person AND their prior MA experience and the style.
Some systems lend themselves to solo practice and others simply do not.
The Hakka arts.
So SPM, Lung Ting, Bak Mei...
Frost
01-22-2014, 06:24 AM
The Hakka arts.
So SPM, Lung Ting, Bak Mei...
umm the hakka arts need years to understand properly, doesn't mean you can't fight with them straight away, lung ying is probably the easiest to learn due to its military background, but still to fully understand take years under a good teacher
sanjuro_ronin
01-22-2014, 06:26 AM
The Hakka arts.
So SPM, Lung Ting, Bak Mei...
Hakka arts tend to be taught to those with PRIOR MA training ( not a rule mind you but most Sifu's believe that it certainly helps) and in THAT case, you probably can do the solo exercises after your teacher tells you that you have them down.
To practice the whole art you need a partner and consistent training with a partner for a few years I would think ( always exception to the rule of course).
Some guys just pick up stuff very quickly.
I don't think you can make a "rule-of-thumb" on this and, at least in my case and the case of a few others I know, we went off on our own when our Sifu said we should.
Typically this tends to happen when the teacher can TEACH you no more and you must now LEARN for yourself.
David Jamieson
01-22-2014, 07:40 AM
There is no single answer to this. It depends on you, your ability to learn, your ability to take instruction and apply it correctly and the breadth and depth of what you studied. the learning of it is not the knowing of it. It's not mere information you are getting. You must train and that takes time and understanding. It's different for everyone, we aren't all the same. Some people digest slowly, others quickly, but no one escapes the mechanical training required and that takes years no matter the martial art.
Think in terms of development of your self and try to avoid thinking about how long it takes you to get to the end. If all you think about is the end result, pretty much guaranteed you are going to miss big chunks of the middle and really, you never get to what you thought you wanted. Food for thought.
I was wondering...how long would you need a Sifu for before you can start practicing the art form by one self?
Like I'm hearing stories of how people move to a country to train for like an year or two but is that really enough time to grasp the art enough to master it by urself?
1. As pointed out, depending what you are working on. Some stuff we may work alone for a while. Some stuff need to be continuously supervised and corrected.
2. Dedicated training with a teacher for a year straight. It is a luxury for many, time wise and expense wise.
We all have day jobs or school work.
Everything takes time (kung fu) and persistence.
:cool:
GeneChing
01-22-2014, 09:23 AM
If the only practice you do is under your Sifu, that's not enough to get very far, unless you're in some sort of traditional live-in disciple scenario, which is really rare nowadays. That's more of an issue with how you phrased your question, Rosa. Your second comment about moving to another country seems more indicative of what you want to get at. As an example that addresses that more directly, the first time I trained at Shaolin, I was there for only a month (plus a few more weeks training in Taiji in Beijing), however I was training rigorously for a year to prepare for that month and already had about two decades of Kung Fu under my belt. Now, I'm no master of Shaolin Kung Fu, but in that month, I got pretty good. If you just look at the time spent away, that's not really indicative of the whole picture.
This might sound really immature. I know its not the style that matters its the practitioner.
But Bak Mei is an art which I really want to learn, the fact that its known as a 'forbidden art' really intrigues me. I really like how its an art form designed to really do harm to the opponent. From all the research I have done it seems like it's the one of the only CMA styles in the world which doesn't have to modify itself from the traditional to be useful in a real life combat situation. High stances, joint locks, the pressure points all appeal to me a lot. I've read that it's the most brutally vicious out of all the Chinese martial arts. Is there any that even come close to it's effectiveness? I was wondering maybe I could go to a place where they teach high quality Bak Mei for like a month or two and learn some things...idk haha.
GeneChing
01-22-2014, 10:16 AM
...you won't learn everything - far from it - but you could learn something.
Jimbo
01-22-2014, 10:27 AM
This might sound really immature. I know its not the style that matters its the practitioner.
But Bak Mei is an art which I really want to learn, the fact that its known as a 'forbidden art' really intrigues me. I really like how its an art form designed to really do harm to the opponent. From all the research I have done it seems like it's the one of the only CMA styles in the world which doesn't have to modify itself from the traditional to be useful in a real life combat situation. High stances, joint locks, the pressure points all appeal to me a lot. I've read that it's the most brutally vicious out of all the Chinese martial arts. Is there any that even come close to it's effectiveness? I was wondering maybe I could go to a place where they teach high quality Bak Mei for like a month or two and learn some things...idk haha.
Every art must be modified by the practitioner in order to make it effective for him/herself. Through practice and experience your skills become uniquely your own. No two practitioners even from the same style can fight in an assembly-line fashion, especially when they are fighting competent practitioners from other arts. And this only happens through extensive practice, 2-person training and sparring experience.
Bak Mei is a great MA. But so are many others. At one time, almost all CMA styles were 'forbidden' to most people, even to most Chinese. Whether something is still more openly taught, easily found or not, does not determine its superiority over other arts. An art's effectiveness (or lack of) rests entirely on what *you* as a practitioner bring to it. You certainly won't become capable enough at any CMA after only a month or two, especially if you are a complete beginner.
GoldenBrain
01-22-2014, 10:45 AM
I don't think Bak Mei is known as a forbidden art because the most "deadly" but rather because the founder, White Eyebrow used his method to kick an abbots arse. Or, something like that. He was expelled from the temple and his art deemed forbidden. Please somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the simple version that was explained to me.
Bak Mei is a great style, but it's concepts are present in most good CMA, so it really does boil down to the practitioner at some point. If your level of experience is novice then just about any of the CMAs will be fine to start with. Seriously a kick is a kick, a punch is a punch, a joint lock is a joint lock…etc. Practice the basics for a few years and eventually as you pick up new techniques and your sifu corrects the bad stuff you will begin to develop your own way of expressing what is now "your" style. Like I said, Bak Mei is great, so if you know where a good school is then go for it!
Edit: Sorry Jimbo, I wasn't trying to duplicate your post. I see we were thinking on the same lines, it just took me longer to post my thoughts because of this awesome little 20 month old boy who calls me daddy. The above took me literally 30 minutes to type out between lego building. lol
sanjuro_ronin
01-22-2014, 11:31 AM
This might sound really immature. I know its not the style that matters its the practitioner.
But Bak Mei is an art which I really want to learn, the fact that its known as a 'forbidden art' really intrigues me. I really like how its an art form designed to really do harm to the opponent. From all the research I have done it seems like it's the one of the only CMA styles in the world which doesn't have to modify itself from the traditional to be useful in a real life combat situation. High stances, joint locks, the pressure points all appeal to me a lot. I've read that it's the most brutally vicious out of all the Chinese martial arts. Is there any that even come close to it's effectiveness? I was wondering maybe I could go to a place where they teach high quality Bak Mei for like a month or two and learn some things...idk haha.
You shouldn't pay that much attention to kung fu movies or to what random people write on the net.
Bak Mei is no more or no less dangerous than any other MA.
I've seen Bak Mei guys get their asses handed to them by "sport fighters" on "the street" more than once.
YouKnowWho
01-22-2014, 01:00 PM
But Bak Mei is an art which I really want to learn,...
You have to learn Cantonese first. A white hair and white eyebrow Bai Mei teacher is hard to find.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCbf4DjlHuM
David Jamieson
01-22-2014, 01:05 PM
You have to learn Cantonese first. A white hair and white eyebrow Bai Mei teacher is hard to find.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCbf4DjlHuM
lol.
Not to mention, there are no secret magic special martial arts out there.
Train as well as you are able.
Get comfortable with being uncomfortable if you really want to learn martial art.
Get out of your head and into the world, your teacher will be pain and if he doesn't show up, you aren't learning a martial art.
Sifu is there to teach you the mechanics an the system. You are there to learn them. That's the contract anyone of any merit signs explicitly or implicitly.
I'm a small person 5'6 60 kgs and I've been **** weak all my life so the thought of possessing skills to smash someones skull or break someones arm sounds really good to me. But I guess the replies in this thread has made me come to my senses.
Xinyiquan good first CMA ?
PalmStriker
01-22-2014, 08:50 PM
This might sound really immature. I know its not the style that matters its the practitioner.
But Bak Mei is an art which I really want to learn, the fact that its known as a 'forbidden art' really intrigues me. I really like how its an art form designed to really do harm to the opponent. From all the research I have done it seems like it's the one of the only CMA styles in the world which doesn't have to modify itself from the traditional to be useful in a real life combat situation. High stances, joint locks, the pressure points all appeal to me a lot. I've read that it's the most brutally vicious out of all the Chinese martial arts. Is there any that even come close to it's effectiveness? I was wondering maybe I could go to a place where they teach high quality Bak Mei for like a month or two and learn some things...idk haha.
There are vids and instruction manuals from some of the Masters whose Masters are of TCMA History. Get some of them and familiarize yourself with everything about the style you can, that way you can attend training seminars, etc. until you find the opportunity to train a spell with one of their reps. :) Bak Mei Kungfu is an excellent choice.
PalmStriker
01-22-2014, 08:55 PM
lol.
Not to mention, there are no secret magic special martial arts out there.
Train as well as you are able.
Get comfortable with being uncomfortable if you really want to learn martial art.
Get out of your head and into the world, your teacher will be pain and if he doesn't show up, you aren't learning a martial art.
Sifu is there to teach you the mechanics an the system. You are there to learn them. That's the contract anyone of any merit signs explicitly or implicitly. Only the fist is forbidden, the rest of the style is not off limits: :D http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=131
So is the question "how long does it take to learn and properly understand a whole style" or "how much instruction do you need before you can practice applying what you have learned"?
Cause you can start practicing on your own on day one. Of course you will have to go back time and time again to get all you need. But you know... baby steps. Learn something, use it, get good at it, get corrected if needed etc etc. Repeat.
GoldenBrain
01-23-2014, 12:03 AM
I'm a small person 5'6 60 kgs and I've been **** weak all my life so the thought of possessing skills to smash someones skull or break someones arm sounds really good to me. But I guess the replies in this thread has made me come to my senses.
Xinyiquan good first CMA ?
It's a fine style with good power generation. I'm not sure if it's for the beginner though.
At your size I'd recommend studying a grappling art like BJJ. Judo is good too, but BJJ will add more focus on the ground which is where smaller people need the most help. Your size allows you to be elusive and faster than a bigger person but if they get a hold of you then you're probably going to the ground.
If you want to take the faster path then visit an MMA gym. If it's a good gym then you should find BJJ and Muay Thai which are a great combo.
I also recommend Filipino martial arts. It's no nonsense and can be brutally effective. There is good standup, joint locking and ground fighting in FMA, as well as blade and stick techniques.
David Jamieson
01-23-2014, 06:46 AM
Also, Rosa, you're a Texan.
This implies you can carry a firearm.
Maybe that would be something to consider learning as well and as suggested an FMA can teach you a lot of short stick and knife work.
Weapons give an advantage to a person of smaller stature. Trying to box is something that takes a considerable amount of time as compared to learning situational awareness and shooting.
Also, it doesn't hurt to spend time cultivating a deep respect for life itself if you undertake the study of things that are designed to end it abruptly.
MightyB
01-23-2014, 07:45 AM
The correct answer is two days.
MightyB
01-23-2014, 11:34 AM
I've changed my mind... The correct answer is now 3 days, but you will have to purchase the DVD and instructional guide in order to get the certificate of mastery.
GoldenBrain
01-23-2014, 12:16 PM
Also, Rosa, you're a Texan.
This implies you can carry a firearm.
Maybe that would be something to consider learning as well and as suggested an FMA can teach you a lot of short stick and knife work.
I agree about the firearm. Joining a local IDPA club is a great way to learn how to use one tactically. Even if you don't win all the matches you will walk away with some serious gun skill.
http://www.idpa.com
And, don't forget the Dulo Dulo! It's little, but devastating and can be carried as a keychain.
8049
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhzeQi-mBsk
MightyB
01-23-2014, 12:46 PM
Bah... Dulo Dulo ain't sh*t!
Now a petrified viking turd - that is a weapon!
8051
http://i.imgur.com/oMzzs.jpg
David Jamieson
01-23-2014, 01:32 PM
Bah... Dulo Dulo ain't sh*t!
Now a petrified viking turd - that is a weapon!
8051
http://i.imgur.com/oMzzs.jpg
"a very rare find"
yeah no kidding. I flush all mine away like an idiot. From now on, I'm bagging them and selling them to museums as "future artifacts"... ;)
MightyB
01-23-2014, 02:14 PM
"a very rare find"
yeah no kidding. I flush all mine away like an idiot. From now on, I'm bagging them and selling them to museums as "future artifacts"... ;)
http://www.pieromanzoni.org/IMAGES/Gallery/Large/201.jpg
Piero Manzoni
The ninety cans of "Merda d'artista" ("Artist's ****, content 30 gr., freshly preserved, produced and tinned in May 1961"), were first exhibited in the Galleria Pescetto (Albisola Marina) on 12 August 1961.
Manzoni calculated the value of the ninety cans - all numbered, each with a net weight of thirty grams - in accordance with the daily exchange rates for gold.
http://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/manzoni-artists-****-t07667/text-summary
I believe the last can that was sold, sold for 97000 British Pound Sterling
David Jamieson
01-23-2014, 02:56 PM
http://www.pieromanzoni.org/IMAGES/Gallery/Large/201.jpg
Piero Manzoni
http://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/manzoni-artists-****-t07667/text-summary
I believe the last can that was sold, sold for 97000 British Pound Sterling
Awesome! I'm off to get some tins!
Also, I need to eat some chili... a lot of chili...
Jimbo
01-23-2014, 03:12 PM
How did this thread go so wrong??:confused:
Watch at your own risk. The real story starts after 1:20...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuaE1H4u8Q8&sns=em
I call B.S. (no pun intended).
My grampa made me a shillelagh (pronounced like shilaylee). As Lucas would say, it's bad to the fukc ass.
GoldenBrain
01-23-2014, 04:57 PM
My grampa made me a shillelagh (pronounced like shilaylee). As Lucas would say, it's bad to the fukc ass.
Yup, a shillelagh trumps a petrified viking turd any day. However, a shillelagh made from a petrified nephilim turd, well now that would be something. I'd name mine Goliath. :cool:
David Jamieson
01-24-2014, 06:21 AM
This here be Goliath. Prepare for a thrashing!
wait, that's what I tell my wife....
MightyB
01-24-2014, 06:33 AM
How did this thread go so wrong??:confused:
Watch at your own risk. The real story starts after 1:20...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuaE1H4u8Q8&sns=em
I call B.S. (no pun intended).
That's seriously f***ed up if it's real. ROFL
GoldenBrain
01-24-2014, 10:53 AM
This here be Goliath. Prepare for a thrashing!
wait, that's what I tell my wife....
When you quote me you need to add the " ". hahahahahahaha!!!:D;)
Jimbo, that video was hilarious. I'm sure it wasn't real, but I can totally see it happening in this pompASS country.
Neeros
02-01-2014, 01:28 AM
Kung fu is 10% learning and 90% practice. I see my Sifu every so often, and get corrections, and new teachings, the rest of the time I am practicing on my own, and with other martial artists.
bawang
02-03-2014, 08:52 AM
you can train without a sifu, but you cant train without a sparring partner.
hskwarrior
02-13-2014, 07:31 PM
保皇 ..........
MightyB
02-14-2014, 06:25 AM
This here be Goliath. Prepare for a thrashing!
wait, that's what I tell my wife....
Did your wife slap you?
I think her story's being told on Facebook - watch this video https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=457622344339645&set=vb.100002756493031&type=2&theater
David Jamieson
02-14-2014, 08:02 AM
Did your wife slap you?
I think her story's being told on Facebook - watch this video https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=457622344339645&set=vb.100002756493031&type=2&theater
Well hold on a second... lol, that was awesome. The chick with the laptop and that sideways look she was giving...just great.
I've had this conversation with my Sifu I have also discussed this with my own students.
The fact of the matter is it takes as long as it takes. I still train with my sifu for the past 19 years. Though this past year I took the year off to focus on some other aspects of my life. There is a transition you make as a student.
To really understand what you are learning you need to go out and test it as well as teach it to others. In this way you will start to develop your own style of expression. As far as to your question. Every time you touch hands with someone of higher skill it increases your skill..
When you decide you are no longer a student, you become a stagnant pond.
People who dedicate themselves to their arts are always in a constant state of growth and development. If you actually catch up to your sifu's skill. Then I would question your sifu's ability. He/she should also be in a constant state of growth...
What I love about martial arts so much is that there isn't a finish line, just a journey...
Every teacher is a student and every student is a teacher. There is no "date". This whole "you must master a, b and c before you can teach" is complete bull****.
Any fight is a random event.
We might try to lure things into a controlled and predictable way.
However, opportunity still comes up and goes.
We all teach what we know or good at.
We all learn from what we do not know or mistakes.
Teachers can be students in some area.
Students can be teachers in other area.
It is all good.
Yum Cha
02-15-2014, 12:29 PM
Pak Mei has a bad rap because a lot of gangsters did the art, and buddhist or other 'good' men didn't like the ethic.
The fact that elements of the Police and military trained it as well seems to be less important. Has a bit to do with the fact that CLC was aligned with the Nationalist Chinese, and they were considered Gangsters by the Communists.
Rosa, you're welcome to come down to Sydney and have a chat any time, but I concur with the recommendation you take some grappling for quick efficient skill and combat experience, then pick a TCMA based from a good teacher, with a class you can make regularly, with people you enjoy. Style goes with the person, not the art. Doing is what makes it all happen, the sooner you start, the better.
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