A question on WSL's dummy form; what are the major differences between his students?

[Paddington]

After watching both David Peterson's, Gary Lam's and also WSL's dummy forms on video formats I note, as many have done already, that Lam has additional kicking sections. My question is do WSL's other students, such as Philipp Bayer and Barry Lee, teach a dummy form that is more like Peterson's and those videos of WSL performing the form or are there significant differences like we see in Lam's? A secondary question, does anyone have any links to other examples of WSL's direct students performing the dummy form?

Cheers.

[LFJ]

Gary Lam's material differs in a lot of ways. Not just the dummy form, but his entire system in fact.

[Paddington]

Gary Lam's material differs in a lot of ways. Not just the dummy form, but his entire system in fact.

Indeed! But 'system' level approach aside there seems, up until the latter kicking sections, more in common with respects to the dummy form? Anyway, thanks for responding. It seems that those users on these forums in a position to answer are choosing not to.

[Jansingsang]

Indeed! But 'system' level approach aside there seems, up until the latter kicking sections, more in common with respects to the dummy form? Anyway, thanks for responding. It seems that those users on these forums in a position to answer are choosing not to.

His not the only one of Sigungs students... Dare i say gone off the page :D Look at Wam kam leung for instance. One of my Students the other day, was P!ssed with Wam kam leungs interpretation of the forms I told him take it easy as he must remember the systems conceptual . As he watched more of Sibak He said man he can sure kick some ar$e tho :D Look at them ,there all different in some form or fashion if its not functional Stay out the Kitchen or your gonna get burnt ;)

[Graham H]

His not the only one of Sigungs students... Dare i say gone off the page :D Look at Wam kam leung for instance. One of my Students the other day, was P!ssed with Wam kam leungs interpretation of the forms I told him take it easy as he must remember the systems conceptual . As he watched more of Sibak He said man he can sure kick some ar$e tho :D Look at them ,there all different in some form or fashion if its not functional Stay out the Kitchen or your gonna get burnt ;)

WKL has changed the system which is fine as he will be first to tell you that. He is not teaching or practicing WSL's interpretation of VT regardless of whether he was a student at any time.

You are right though. He can kick some ar$e and you are also right that others have gone right off the page.

The reason why they are "all" different is due to many many factors. Interpretation is not one of them although that reason is widely used to justify why there are so many differences from person to person. Generally people accept that idea. I personally do not.

[k gledhill]

WKL has changed the system which is fine as he will be first to tell you that. He is not teaching or practicing WSL's interpretation of VT regardless of whether he was a student at any time.

You are right though. He can kick some ar$e and you are also right that others have gone right off the page.

The reason why they are "all" different is due to many many factors. Interpretation is not one of them although that reason is widely used to justify why there are so many differences from person to person. Generally people accept that idea. I personally do not.

Agree. A lot of people " visited " WSL, few were actually " students ". It's also known by wsl students who the visitors were or the attendance of classes with wsl present. One wsl student left every day before wsl arrived to teach personally in the school, but claims he is a wsl student.....when at a seminar a few years later, the student was corrected about errors in thinking as he tried to interpret for WSL by another wsl student who learned from wsl and attended class when wsl was teaching directly.....
Then the abstract nature of the system can be misinterpreted easily by the same lackadaisical approach, the student goes to Europe and teaches " his " ideas only to be discovered by students later and creating differences....

[Graham H]

Agree. A lot of people " visited " WSL, few were actually " students ". It's also known by wsl students who the visitors were or the attendance of classes with wsl present. One wsl student left every day before wsl arrived to teach personally in the school, but claims he is a wsl student.....when at a seminar a few years later, the student was corrected about errors in thinking as he tried to interpret for WSL by another wsl student who learned from wsl and attended class when wsl was teaching directly.....
Then the abstract nature of the system can be misinterpreted easily by the same lackadaisical approach, the student goes to Europe and teaches " his " ideas only to be discovered by students later and creating differences....

Yes and as well as these people being only visitors or short term students, many went to WSL's school with some WC knowledge already. So the problem was not only that there was not enough time spent learning but also not enough time spent correcting the errors beforehand. Added to that are the problems that arise from relationships between people. The want of financial gain. Perhaps some students were not very talented as fighters and preferred a more theoretical approach. Many many problems = many many interpretations.

It's not rocket science.

Its the same in my school, my teachers school, my teachers teachers school and it would have been the same in Yip Man's school.

[Jansingsang]

WKL has changed the system which is fine as he will be first to tell you that. He is not teaching or practicing WSL's interpretation of VT regardless of whether he was a student at any time.

You are right though. He can kick some ar$e and you are also right that others have gone right off the page.

The reason why they are "all" different is due to many many factors. Interpretation is not one of them although that reason is widely used to justify why there are so many differences from person to person. Generally people accept that idea. I personally do not.

On reflection you have a point as one I know of messed with it deliberately trying to reinvent the wheel so to speak and has caused a chain reaction of poor VT with students none the wiser:mad:

[Jansingsang]

..
Then the abstract nature of the system can be misinterpreted easily by the same lackadaisical approach, the student goes to Europe and teaches " his " ideas only to be discovered by students later and creating differences....

This bloke sounds familiar any clues:D

[Graham H]

On reflection you have a point as one I know of messed with it deliberately trying to reinvent the wheel so to speak and has caused a chain reaction of poor VT with students none the wiser:mad:

They are everywhere! Lock up your children! Lol

[Paddington]

Well, it is nice and all to hear about the variety out there but I would find it helpful to know some specific differences or perhaps have people's abstractions elucidated a little, with respects to the dummy form.

[Graham H]

Well, it is nice and all to hear about the variety out there but I would find it helpful to know some specific differences or perhaps have people's abstractions elucidated a little, with respects to the dummy form.

Find a good teacher. Problem solved :)

[Paddington]

Find a good teacher. Problem solved :)

If that were an easy and doable task do you think I would be resorting to asking questions on the Interwebs? Due to where we live and life circumstances some of us have no option but to ask online. It is not ideal but better than giving up training.

[Graham H]

If that were an easy and doable task do you think I would be resorting to asking questions on the Interwebs? Due to where we live and life circumstances some of us have no option but to ask online. It is not ideal but better than giving up training.

Ok I understand but asking questions on the www about Wing Chun is as much use as a spaghetti ladder! I have to travel outside of the UK for my own learning and training. Whilst I'm home I make good use of my students/training partners for my own development.

If I had to choose between poor Wing Chun and resorting to the web for information I would give up for sure. Unfortunately due to the problems with Wing Chun these days you would be better joining a MMA club or good Boxing club. If that does not appeal to you then maybe a male hooker and serial axe murderer may interest you! :D:D

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=Jansingsang;1260623]His not the only one of Sigungs students... Dare i say gone off the page :D Look at Wam kam leung for instance. One of my Students the other day, was P!ssed with Wam kam leungs interpretation of the forms I told him take it easy as he must remember the systems conceptual .
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Sure wing chun is conceptual -but that does necessarily clarify things for people who do not have good guidance.
Much of this thread involves the blind leading the blind.

[Jansingsang]

[QUOTE=Jansingsang;1260623]His not the only one of Sigungs students... Dare i say gone off the page :D Look at Wam kam leung for instance. One of my Students the other day, was P!ssed with Wam kam leungs interpretation of the forms I told him take it easy as he must remember the systems conceptual .
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Sure wing chun is conceptual -but that does necessarily clarify things for people who do not have good guidance.
Much of this thread involves the blind leading the blind.


Myself & Graham already clarified that anolgy Joy So it's not the case of blind leading the blind mister :rolleyes:

[LFJ]

Much of this thread involves the blind leading the blind.

Ha. What the hell would you know?

[Graham H]

Much of this thread involves the blind leading the blind.

The fact that you have posted gives that idea some justification as well! :rolleyes:

[Paddington]

[...]
If I had to choose between poor Wing Chun and resorting to the web for information I would give up for sure. Unfortunately due to the problems with Wing Chun these days you would be better joining a MMA club or good Boxing club. If that does not appeal to you then maybe a male hooker and serial axe murderer may interest you! :D:D

Well I am not you and will persevere because I enjoy training wing chun. I have regular training partners from wing chun clubs that I used to be a member of so it is not the case of pure solo training; a couple of them are instructors at said club. I do practice other martial arts too so you are being a little presumptive. I know the dummy form, the ins and outs, from certain lineages and I was just trying to further my knowledge of WSL's ideas with regards to the dummy form when I made this thread. If you do not want to contribute to elucidating WSL's thoughts on the dummy form, then that is fine by me. :)